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Clowney, then what?

Yes, I know. Our numbers appear to be different.

https://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp

According to the NCAA's stats South Carolina's defense ranked in Total Defense:

2013 - #19
2012 - #11
2011 - #3
2010 - #46
2009 - #15
2008 - #14

They updated the website for the 2013 season:

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

Those rankings might not be a good place to evaluate if they are anything like the NFL's system of ranking offenses and defenses. The NFL's are literally worthless and a huge compilation of stats that really don't tell the entire story. Not sure if college rankings are the same or not though.
 
Sorry don't have any documentation or reference here, but the other day on an ESPN NFL segment a young reporter named Fields who previously worked for Belichick/Patriots front office said he heard Belichick say once, "we don't draft for production, we draft traits". I take "traits" to me skills, maybe others might have a different interpretation ?

Traits = skill sets

Seattle drafts the same way.
 
Those rankings might not be a good place to evaluate if they are anything like the NFL's system of ranking offenses and defenses. The NFL's are literally worthless and a huge compilation of stats that really don't tell the entire story. Not sure if college rankings are the same or not though.

Not sure what you mean. All you do is click on the team and it gives you a listing of team and player stats and where they rank according to conference and the rest of the country.

Example, South Carolina team page from 2012:

https://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2012&org=648
 
Yes, I know. Our numbers appear to be different.

https://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp

According to the NCAA's stats South Carolina's defense ranked in Total Defense:

2013 - #19
2012 - #11
2011 - #3
2010 - #46
2009 - #15
2008 - #14

They updated the website for the 2013 season:

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22

I see the problem. I tried to use the NCAA site first, but every time I googled "2012 NCAA defense rank" or something it would only send me to the 2013 season for the NCAA site. So I used the second link (the yahoo one). I didn't realize that yahoo's default ranks the teams by points allowed rather than yards allowed. I prefer yards as a metric, so I think your numbers are more representative. I apologize.
 
I see the problem. I tried to use the NCAA site first, but every time I googled "2012 NCAA defense rank" or something it would only send me to the 2013 season for the NCAA site. So I used the second link (the yahoo one). I didn't realize that yahoo's default ranks the teams by points allowed rather than yards allowed. I prefer yards as a metric, so I think your numbers are more representative. I apologize.

No need to apologize. The site changing has been a thorn in my side all season. As I was doing research on prospects I had to keep going back and forth between the old site and the new one, and I don't like the layout of the new one at all.
 
Jamarcus was addicted to codeine and promethazine... Clowney doesn't even drink. He did drive over the speed limit, though, so there's that.

All feedback from teams who actually met and spent time with the kid are positive, very likeable, other prospects like him.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2305132#post2305132



So ding him for his down year, but Clowney is not some
emot-airquote.gif
bad kid. His personality is the polar opposite of someone like Mario, who was dark and even suicidal.

Agree 100%.

And keep in mind, he learned from his 1 st speeding ticket.........instead of being cited for going 40 mph over the speed limit, he ratcheted it down to only 29 mph over the limit with his 2nd incident. And, unlike MW, he was still in college. Maybe, it's just an innate "drive" within a gifted speed rusher.
 
Clowney's first year was in 2011

USC defensive rankings (overall record and final rank in parenthesis):
2008: 28th (7-6 / NR)
2009 22nd (7-6 / NR)
2010: 49th (9-5 / #22)
2011: 13th (11-2 / #9)
2012: 13th (11-2 / #8)
2013: 11th (11-2 / #4)

Perhaps we should keep in mind that Stephen Garcia was the starting QB from 2008-2010, while Connor Shaw was the QB from 2011-2013.

Garcia - 57.7% completions, 47 TD with 41 INT, 777 rush yds and 15 TD's
Shaw - 65.5% completions, 56 TD with 16 INT, 1683 rush yds and 17 TD's

Offensive rank by year

2008 - 97th
2009 - 103rd
2010 - 37th
2011 - 42nd
2012 - 44th
2013 - 32nd

The offense was awful in year 1 & 2 of Garcia, but improved greatly in his final year. That year was also the only year that Marshon Lattimore was fully healthy the entire season. He carried the team that year and won the SEC Freshman of the Year award. Shaw took over as QB in 2011 and managed to field the same caliber offense the next 2 years with an injured Lattimore and the best offense in his final year without Lattimore.

Their team and their defense was better with Clowney than it ever was without him. I'm not saying he's the sole reason for that, but the evidence is obvious. They were also better last year than ever before. Whether they could have been even better with a 100% Clowney is debatable -- maybe they go from #4 to National Champs, who knows? Clowney could also have sacrificed his individual stats for team success last year however, which is something that people typically don't crap all over athletes for.

Clowney deserves credit for the defense being better (as do others but he probably deserves the most), but as I pointed out above, I would not attribute his appearance as the reason for the team's overall success. Steve Spurrier took over an awful program that had floundered during his 6-year tenure until he found the right QB to run his offense.

Also, we all acknowledge that team's go where their Quarterback's take them. Well, once Connor Shaw took over at QB, this team went further than they have ever gone before. Did Clowney also contribute to this success? Most definitely. But I think people are getting way too caught up in the hype and giving Clowney the majority of the credit because that's the easy thing to do. Connor Shaw probably had more to do with USC's success the last few years than Clowney. That doesn't make him a better player (he's not) but he was a great college QB and a good QB can take a team farther than a good DE can.

Oh, and I'm a guy who's hoping that we take Clowney #1 if we can't trade out. But I also call it like I see it.
 
I dunno, sure that's what it means ? Maybe "traits" could also mean talents, or characteristics, or abilities ?

Sorry, should have dropped in the obligatory IMO.

Traits could mean a lot of things, but IMO, when I hear coaches talking about traits I immediately think of skill sets before anything else.
 
I get the potential angle and I set it up as an easy-to-answer question.

You have the benefit of hindsight being 20/20 vision with your examples. If only teams had such insight before making those draft picks. There is no guaranteed pick in the draft process. NONE of these players can offer 100% certainty that they are going to be great NFL players. Tell me which players will be in the HoF now and then I give that person major respect in about a decade.

That said, I think it is a bit foolhardy to take fans to task for perceived inability to judge game tape when pro teams are looking at the same tape and still consider him a top draft pick.

ALL of these picks are based on POTENTIAL. That's kind of a Captain Obvious observation. :rolleyes:

There are a lot of absolute statements being made that seem more like shots in the dark than actual legit analysis. That was my point, not the softball question I posed.

The only consistent knock on Clowney pertains to his 'motor', and even that evaluation has its share of critics.
It's also pretty damn Captain Obvious that NFL Front office types are often *gasp* WRONG.

It's also pretty obvious that some teams place far more value in certain players than others. The part you overlook is that they also have 20/20 hindsight of their own evaluative processes and yet they still miss; some teams far more than others.

In what's sure to be a shocking development, some of the same scouts singing the praises of top prospects this year have been utterly wrong before. :rolleyes:

As you point out, nobody is a "lock", so why nitpick with folks who see flaws in certain players?
 
btw, don't blast me, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I'm looking forward to the draft to finally root for whoever they pick,

What's sad, is that we're probably going to get a great player, whether that's Bortles, Bridgewater, Manziel, Clowney, or whoever...... but there are going to be boos. Just like when we drafted Jj Watt.

We look worse than Philly fans when it comes to 1st round picks.
 
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Watt was also used primarily as an interior run stuffer because of his size and the Big Ten being so run-heavy. He wasn't a guy who got to rush from the edge on every play like Clowney.

Just pointing out that stats are not a true indicator of talent or impact.
 
I've noticed the Falcons spending a lot of time with Clowney. I would assume they know they'll need to move up to #1 to get him, right? Otherwise, they're both wasting their time.
 
Field Yates.

As Gil Brandt says, teams draft based on their own projections within their positions. It's why a Tom Savage is drawing strong interest from NFL teams but, DraftTwitter is all up in arms... :overreact:

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt

It's really a mixture of both.

A lot of us don't put too much stock in "prototypical" size, or "strong arms" or playing for a major program in a major conference. Saying those things don't mean a lot in the NFL, or they aren't the end all/be all.

& for the most part that's true, but it all adds up. Just like playing in a "pro" system. Just about everyone here puts a lot of stock into playing in a pro system, but Joe Flacco & Ben Roethlisberger didn't (I know they didn't play for a major program in a major conference either). But like Savage, they have the size, they have the arm, & they've shown that they can make good decisions.

Not saying Savage should be taken in the first, or that he'll win a Super Bowl, just saying. All teams look at all this differently & weight them all differently, & gauge it all according to all the other talent available in the draft.
 
I've noticed the Falcons spending a lot of time with Clowney. I would assume they know they'll need to move up to #1 to get him, right? Otherwise, they're both wasting their time.
The Atlanta Falcons will spend more time with Jadeveon Clowney on Friday.

The Falcons, who numerous league sources say remain very focused on South Carolina pass rusher Clowney, hosted him for a visit this week and are scheduled to spent more time with him Friday.

The Falcons are seen by many execs as the team most likely to trade up to first overall with Houston, with Clowney their target. Pass rush remains a big void for the team,which hopes to bounce back to Super Bowl contention after a disastrous 2013. GM Thomas Demitroff has pulled off big draft-day moves in the past and the Texans are very open to trading down, with at least three players under consideration for the top selection.

Clowney was in Atlanta on Wednesday and on Friday he will not have a full workout for them, but, according to a source, he "will do a few things on the field," with Falcons brass on campus. The Falcons are likely to work out South Carolina WR Bruce Ellington as well.

The Texans could well take Clowney is they stay at first overall, but if they trade down, Central Florida quarterback Blake Bortles would be in play, while the Texans have also spent considerable time considering Buffalo linebacker Khalil Mack, who won't be there at No. 6 overall, as well as quarterback Johnny Manziel.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...ime-with-clowney-draft-trade-up-deal-in-works
 
Spurrier speak out for Clowney again.

South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier says the Houston Texans have only one option with the first overall pick in the NFL draft: Select former South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.

“Yeah, I think you have to,” Spurrier said when asked by Dan Patrick if the Texans should take Clowney.


Spurrier said if there was a franchise quarterback like Andrew Luck in this draft, it might be a different story. But Spurrier doesn’t believe any of the quarterbacks in this year’s draft is that kind of elite talent, and as a result he says CLowney is the clear choice.

“He’s a really good football player, and obviously pass rushing is what he does best,” Spurrier said. “He’s a pass rusher like nobody I think I’ve ever seen in college football.”

Spurrier has been candid about Clowney not always having the best work ethic, but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no question about who the most talented player in this draft is. That’s Clowney.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/24/spurrier-thinks-the-texans-have-to-take-clowney/
 
If we believe two of the three QBs will be gone by the 6th pick, I can see us drafting Clowney, with a deal in place with Atlanta, depending on which QB was still there.
 
If we believe two of the three QBs will be gone by the 6th pick, I can see us drafting Clowney, with a deal in place with Atlanta, depending on which QB was still there.

Say what? Ummm, I'm pretty sure they are all there when you draft first. :gun:
 
Say what? Ummm, I'm pretty sure they are all there when you draft first. :gun:

Maybe they don't think the value is there to pass on Clowney. But to get their QB at 6 and extra picks, maybe they'll see the value there.
 

I think he's saying it's like the Eli Manning/Philip Rivers trade where Team A (us in this case) will go ahead and draft a player. Then if a certain player is still there when Team B picks, then Team B will pick that player and the two teams will swap with Team B throwing in some other things for good measure.

It's a bit rare and I hadn't really considered the possibility until he mentioned it.
 
If we believe two of the three QBs will be gone by the 6th pick, I can see us drafting Clowney, with a deal in place with Atlanta, depending on which QB was still there.

Draft & trade is unlikely with new structure of rookie pool. ATL would be trying to sign 1st slot Clowney with 6th slot allocated money which would be near impossible to do within the rules. $1 million difference, new CBA rules.

I did not stay at Holiday Inn Express last night... heard this on NFL Insiders from Phil Savage. Doesn't really make sense to me, but won't be the last time that's true.
 
Draft & trade is unlikely with new structure of rookie pool. ATL would be trying to sign 1st slot Clowney with 6th slot allocated money which would be near impossible to do within the rules. $1 million difference, new CBA rules.

I did not stay at Holiday Inn Express last night... heard this on NFL Insiders from Phil Savage. Doesn't really make sense to me, but won't be the last time that's true.

I disagree. I think it would be a lot easier to entice teams to trade for a #1 draft pick since they aren't paying out the ass for it like they were many years ago. The investment is a lot less.
 
Savage said you cannot do it -- draft then trade -- under the new rules the way pick are slotted financially. So if there's going to be a trade, it will be before our 1st pick.

Okay, I see. So, they can't do it like NY and SD did then. That is silly. It should be able to go however they want it to go.
 
Savage said you cannot do it -- draft then trade -- under the new rules the way pick are slotted financially. So if there's going to be a trade, it will be before our 1st pick.

Actually I think you can do it but getting the money to work is extremely hard. The farther apart the picks the harder it is. I think!
 
I think he's saying it's like the Eli Manning/Philip Rivers trade where Team A (us in this case) will go ahead and draft a player. Then if a certain player is still there when Team B picks, then Team B will pick that player and the two teams will swap with Team B throwing in some other things for good measure.

It's a bit rare and I hadn't really considered the possibility until he mentioned it.

Thanks! That makes some sense.
 
OK. I just pulled up this: Jadeveon Clowney vs. Taylor Lewan 2013 Bowlgame. This is not the two games I'd seen him play previously. AND. It's a bowl game.

Second play of the video. 17 seconds into this. He rushes on a twist. The QB tries to run to the area Clowney vacated. That's all good. But when Clowney sees the play going away from him, he just jogs toward it. He doesn't run. If he had run there, he would have been in a better position to get the fumble.



Really? What about #70 and #99? Are they loafing too?????

At 1:09, the play goes inside of him and breaks for a long run. Once he sees he's out of the play, he's not trying to get himself back into it. In the slo-mo second version of that play, I kept expecting to see him come back into the camera but he never showed up. Which means he either stopped or he was just jogging after the play.



You can't be serious?????

On the play at about 1:40, he gets doubled and when he sees the QB rushing the other way, he slows down.



I'm totally confused?????

On the play at about 3:09, the run is away from him and he initially pursues but then he slows down while the guy is still not down.

On the plays in the 3:35 range, he's starting to look tired and half-hearted.

On the play at about 4:01, he runs himself out of the play and then he becomes a spectator.

On the play at 4:09, he falls down. And then instead of getting up and chasing the play, he gets up and talks to the tackle.

On the next play, he rushes, the QB runs, Clowney jogs after and then when he realizes he could be in a position to hit him, he speeds up. If he had been moving at that speed for the entire play, he would have been in a better position to make a play.

On the play at 5:02, I don't know if it was called for him to take a slow contain rush but he looked lackadaisacal coming off the ball to me.

At the 8:10 mark, he gets doubled teamed. The play goes past and he just trudges downfield.

At the 8:18 mark... that was an AMAZING play. He had other opportunites to do that.

Again at 9:49, excellent play.

To me, there are a lot of times where he just doesn't look like he's in the game.


I don't see it!!!!!! Sorry buddy I think you are looking to hard for something that isn't there. If that is loafing then even JJ Watt is a loafer.
 
Savage said you cannot do it -- draft then trade -- under the new rules the way pick are slotted financially. So if there's going to be a trade, it will be before our 1st pick.

Its actually a lot easier to do it under the new rules vs the old rules. The smaller contracts really simplifies everything. The point system is even different now in terms of value. They could draft clowney and when its the falcons pick call them say which qb to draft. The terms will be discussed before the draft. It could be a 3rd this yr and next. Or maybe with the 3rd from falcons,they trade that to pats for mallett.
 
Okay, I see. So, they can't do it like NY and SD did then. That is silly. It should be able to go however they want it to go.

It would be Atl in this scenario that would have difficulties, being given the the money for only a 6th pick and having to pay a 1:1 pick. However if the give up other picks such as their 2nd and third then they would have that money to spend?
 
Its actually a lot easier to do it under the new rules vs the old rules. The smaller contracts really simplifies everything. The point system is even different now in terms of value. They could draft clowney and when its the falcons pick call them say which qb to draft. The terms will be discussed before the draft. It could be a 3rd this yr and next. Or maybe with the 3rd from falcons,they trade that to pats for mallett.

Making the money work is the problem.
 
I don't see it!!!!!! Sorry buddy I think you are looking to hard for something that isn't there. If that is loafing then even JJ Watt is a loafer.

The play at "around 1:40" is actually the play BEFORE the one you showed. He's initially doubled, sees the play going the other way, slows down, and then the running back hits him a second time.

To your first comment, I'm not drafting #70 or #99 with the #1 overall pick.

To the second, if you watch a little further, they show a replay where you can watch Clowney better. To my eye, he could have pursued more and harder.

If it was just one or two plays here or there -- especially at the end of the game -- I'd agree with you. But the fact is that it isn't. He could have shown more want-to on a lot of plays. If it were just he could have tried a little harder on this play or that play, that would be fine.

And that's why when you talk about high-motor guys, you don't talk about Jadeveon Clowney, that's why so many people are down on him because of his motor. High-motor guys pursue harder, try harder, work harder. That's not saying that high-motor guys don't have some plays where they couldn't have tried harder but most of the time, high-motor guys are chasing after the ball and continuing to play hard until the whistle blows.

You talk about JJ Watt but I've seen JJ Watt get blocked to the ground, pop back up, run full blast, and chase down a screen from behind, knocking the ball out of the guy's hands. I've seen QBs throw passes down field that JJ almost blocks and then JJ turns and runs and gets in on the tackle 20-30 yards downfield. The player that Jadeveon Clowney was during this game would never have done those things.
 
Bottom line for me on Clowney is

1. Is he willing to have the bone spur surgery directly after the draft.

2. Can Clowney teamed with Watt get the pass rush needed late in the 4th Qter when the Texans are holding a 3 point lead with 2-3 mins left. The Texans have never been able to consistently accomplish this since their inception. I think Clowney is this kind of differencemaker.
 
You talk about JJ Watt but I've seen JJ Watt get blocked to the ground, pop back up, run full blast, and chase down a screen from behind, knocking the ball out of the guy's hands. I've seen QBs throw passes down field that JJ almost blocks and then JJ turns and runs and gets in on the tackle 20-30 yards downfield. The player that Jadeveon Clowney was during this game would never have done those things.

And I've seen Clowney fall through a gap in the line and chase after the running back on all fours like a madman, and I've seen game tape of Watt slowing down in front of a pile. Going full-bore every single snap is a good way to not have energy in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: The play at the 2:51 mark for the video is a good example of this.
 
No its not. The contract aren't signed,players are just slotted. Look at what cam signed for vs aldon smith.i

Cam signed for number 1 slot money, from where he was picked. Aldon for number 7. No big deal.

Cam wouldn't have wanted to settle for number 7 money if he had been traded to San Fran after having been picked first overall, though. But San Fran would have been married to number 7 slot money for him if they had already picked out of that slot.

Hence, making the money work is the problem if you're to make the trade after you make the pick.
 
Pull up ANY D-linemen video and you will see them fake hustling when the play clearly goes the other way. Even JJ does it. It's the smart thing to do.
 
And I've seen Clowney fall through a gap in the line and chase after the running back on all fours like a madman, and I've seen game tape of Watt slowing down in front of a pile. Going full-bore every single snap is a good way to not have energy in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: The play at the 2:51 mark for the video is a good example of this.

I pointed out in that tape places where Clowney DOES make some outstanding plays. And I've said over and over again that he does.

But.

There's a reason why most people don't talk about Clowney having a high motor. That's not saying he's not a physical freak or that he can't make some amazing plays... when he chooses to. But he doesn't choose to nearly as much as JJ Watt does.

When Watt came out, EVERYONE talked about him as a high motor guy. Several people on this board were hoping we would choose him (I was not one of those because I didn't think they were really going to move Mario to OLB and didn't think we'd go that high on a 3-4 DE.) But I haven't heard anyone say Clowney is a high motor guy and I haven't seen a high motor guy with Clowney on any of his 2013 tape I've seen.

*** NOTE: I have to say it. I'm just joking. Don't take this the wrong way but... it's even harder to have energy in the 4th quarter when you come into the season out of shape. Sorry. It was just there. Had to take it. :)
 
breaking news.
my sources indicate that clowney is having another workout session with the atlanta falcons. this all but cements my prediction that falcons and texans will swap picks.
 
breaking news.
my sources indicate that clowney is having another workout session with the atlanta falcons. this all but cements my prediction that falcons and texans will swap picks.
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link

The Atlanta Falcons need a pass rusher. The best in this draft is South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.
That's why I think the Falcons will make a move to go up and get him, making a deal with the Houston Texans for the top overall pick. Houston can trade back to Atlanta's sixth spot and pick up extra picks.
There is growing talk in league circles that the Texans will move back. They could then either draft a top offensive lineman, maybe a quarterback or even a pass rusher (Khalil Mack maybe)?
So for this mock draft, which is my 10th, I will include that trade.
There are just two more weeks to go before the real draft. It feels like 10.
1. Atlanta Falcons (trade with Houston Texans): Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina: The Falcons need an elite pass rusher, so they make the big move.
2. St. Louis Rams -- Greg Robinson, T, Auburn: He's a difference maker on the offensive line. He could play left guard for a year.
3. Jacksonville Jaguars -- Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo: As Gus Bradley says, you can never have enough pass rushers. Mack can be special.
4. Cleveland Browns -- Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson: Speed kills. He has it. Some say he's the next Julio Jones.
5. Oakland Raiders -- Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M: It just makes sense. They need a quarterback, and he will liven things up.
6. Houston Texans (from Atlanta) -- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida: They trade down and still land one of the top quarterbacks, plus extra picks.


Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
:mariopalm:
 
im meh about both. would want to trade down again if its bridgewater, someone will be willing to jump for mike evans

We could take that DT Aaron Donald that I keep hearing around here. If the Texans did that, I wouldn't be upset.
 
If it's any reassurance to you CBS's Pete Prisco agrees

Link
The Atlanta Falcons need a pass rusher. The best in this draft is South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.
That's why I think the Falcons will make a move to go up and get him, making a deal with the Houston Texans for the top overall pick. Houston can trade back to Atlanta's sixth spot and pick up extra picks.
There is growing talk in league circles that the Texans will move back. They could then either draft a top offensive lineman, maybe a quarterback or even a pass rusher (Khalil Mack maybe)?
So for this mock draft, which is my 10th, I will include that trade.
There are just two more weeks to go before the real draft. It feels like 10.
1. Atlanta Falcons (trade with Houston Texans): Jadeveon Clowney, DE, South Carolina: The Falcons need an elite pass rusher, so they make the big move.
2. St. Louis Rams -- Greg Robinson, T, Auburn: He's a difference maker on the offensive line. He could play left guard for a year.
3. Jacksonville Jaguars -- Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo: As Gus Bradley says, you can never have enough pass rushers. Mack can be special.
4. Cleveland Browns -- Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson: Speed kills. He has it. Some say he's the next Julio Jones.
5. Oakland Raiders -- Johnny Manziel, QB, Texas A&M: It just makes sense. They need a quarterback, and he will liven things up.
6. Houston Texans (from Atlanta) -- Blake Bortles, QB, Central Florida: They trade down and still land one of the top quarterbacks, plus extra picks.



Not sure how valid his predictions are since the idiot still has us going after Blake Bortles.
:mariopalm:
Yea OK, but what's the consideration for our pick ? That's the question and does anybody ask it here ? And BTW, if anybody doubts who's the most highly valued prospect in this Draft, well I challenge you to step up and show any trade scenario with the Texans for their 1.1 that's being discussed that doesn't involve a team interested in landing Clowney.
But to the consideration/boot a trading partner would need to include with their first round pick to get our 1.1: I say the starting point is for likely candidates which would include teams with the 1.5 thru 1.9 would need to include their 2nd round pick. That may bring Rick Smith, or he may hold out for more ? Personally, I think I'd be inclined to do the deal, especially if it was Oakland or ATL.
 
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