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Clowney, then what?

I'm pretty sure, with the Crennel hire, that we can take Clowney off the board at #1 (along with my pet project: Aaron Donald). So, that takes care of that.

Other names that may have moved up our board as potential 1st round picks on defense:

A. Barr (OLB)
L. Nix (NT) ... I doubt either would be selected with 1.1, but perhaps could be targeted with a move down a few spots.

Other possibilities if we drop beyond 1.5:
K. Mack OLB
CJ Mosley ILB - New England traded up to 1.9 a few years ago to get J.Mayo.

I would say Crennel's hiring increases the likelihood, a great deal, that the Texans go offense (QB of their liking or Matthews), or trade down.
 
dalemurphy said:
I'm pretty sure, with the Crennel hire, that we can take Clowney off the board at #1 (along with my pet project: Aaron Donald). So, that takes care of that.

Other names that may have moved up our board as potential 1st round picks on defense:

A. Barr (OLB)
L. Nix (NT) ... I doubt either would be selected with 1.1, but perhaps could be targeted with a move down a few spots.

Other possibilities if we drop beyond 1.5:
K. Mack OLB
CJ Mosley ILB - New England traded up to 1.9 a few years ago to get J.Mayo.

I would say Crennel's hiring increases the likelihood, a great deal, that the Texans go offense (QB of their liking or Matthews), or trade down.
Click to expand...

Hard to say right now, but I think this is the first time in Texans history that I really don't care all that much as long as we don't draft Clowney.

You've heard me rip Kubiak and Smith for years, but right now I'm very comfortable with our coaching situation and excited for it. Whatever direction they choose to go, I'll have confidence that they are making sound decisions unless it's a total head scratcher that I can't justify for the life of me. I think we could draft or trade back in so many different scenarios right now. I'd love to get our QB situation figured out though. UNfortunately there is only one QB that I really like and he seems to need a little bit more development as of now.
 
dalemurphy said:
I'm pretty sure, with the Crennel hire, that we can take Clowney off the board at #1 (along with my pet project: Aaron Donald). So, that takes care of that.

Other names that may have moved up our board as potential 1st round picks on defense:

A. Barr (OLB)
L. Nix (NT) ... I doubt either would be selected with 1.1, but perhaps could be targeted with a move down a few spots.

Other possibilities if we drop beyond 1.5:
K. Mack OLB
CJ Mosley ILB - New England traded up to 1.9 a few years ago to get J.Mayo.

I would say Crennel's hiring increases the likelihood, a great deal, that the Texans go offense (QB of their liking or Matthews), or trade down.
Click to expand...

actually NE did not trade up for Mayo. that was SF's pick they received from the previous year when the 9ers traded back in to the 1st Rd for Joe Staley.
 
WolverineFan said:
Mallett is as unproven as any of the QB's this year that nobody here wants to draft.
Click to expand...

Agreed,

But he's got 3 things going for him.

1. Talent, as much as any QB in this draft. Mallett is unproven because he plays behind a GOAT. (Brady)
2. He already knows the offense, none of the draftable QB's already knows the offense.
3. He will be much cheaper than 1-1.

If BO'B chooses to make a trade like this then there is something in Mallett he likes and that's good enough for me. If not then hopefully he finds his guy.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed,

But he's got 3 things going for him.

1. Talent, as much as any QB in this draft. Mallett is unproven because he plays behind a GOAT. (Brady)
2. He already knows the offense, none of the draftable QB's already knows the offense.
3. He will be much cheaper than 1-1.

If BO'B chooses to make a trade like this then there is something in Mallett he likes and that's good enough for me. If not then hopefully he finds his guy.
Click to expand...

Mallet is not Texan worthy, so forget it.
 
2 people are somewhat occupied and that's good enough for me.

Clowney/Watt are doubled and chipped some of the time.
 
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
 
TheIronDuke said:
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
Click to expand...

The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.

I could see a scenario where the Texans take Clowney, and a NT, or guard, and still grab a QB like Tajh Boyd in the 3rd. This would allow them to sign a free agent QB like McCown or whomever and let Tajh learn for a year.
 
Blake said:
The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.

I could see a scenario where the Texans take Clowney, and a NT, or guard, and still grab a QB like Tajh Boyd in the 3rd. This would allow them to sign a free agent QB like McCown or whomever and let Tajh learn for a year.
Click to expand...

It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.
 
Last edited:
TheIronDuke said:
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's a good argument to take Clowney in the first & Mettenberger or Murray (or even someone more raw) in the second.
 
Mr teX said:
It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.
Click to expand...

I think we are going in a circle here. I think we can both agree that QB is the most important position. And I also think we can agree that teams will reach for a QB. But we cannot just take a QB for the sake of taking a QB if the talent isnt there.
 
I wish the draft would be here already. This board has become the cat that keeps chasing its own tail.
 
thunderkyss said:
Actually, that's a good argument to take Clowney in the first & Mettenberger or Murray (or even someone more raw) in the second.
Click to expand...

No it isn't.

Let's take a look at these QBs who aren't 1st rounders people point to.

Kaepernick drafted behind a 1st overall having a career year.
Wilson drafted to backup a highly paid anticipated starter with the previous year's starter still on the roster.
Brady drafted as tail end backup to a 1st overall QB.

These guys were lucky strikes on draft picks for developmental QBs. They were not drafted to be the starters for QBless teams.
 
Blake said:
The problem I have with that logic is that you had a few teams do that with Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, possibly because they thought they had a potential great QB only to strike out and miss out on players like Watt, Robert Quinn, Cameron Jordan, Pouncey, Kerrigan (All Pro Bowlers) and Wilkerson.
Click to expand...

How many of those guys were the 1st QB taken? How often is it that the first QB taken busts? Usually, teams are taking the best QB in the draft and they hit the pick. Then other teams scramble to get the remaining QB's, reach, and a lot of guys bust.

In this draft, the Texans get to choose which QB they want. Other teams do not necessarily get this option. That improves the odds of the Texans hitting on the pick because they get their choice instead of having to wait and take whoever is still on the board.

This draft actually reminds me a lot of 2011. You had 3 guys who not everyone was sold on (Newton, Locker, Gabbert) and another guy who was borderline 1st (Ponder). Most people pegged Newton as the top QB, but didn't think he was the top player in the draft and not worthy of #1. Most everyone thought that was Von Miller, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones, or A.J. Green.

Now Bridgewater is the guy this year that most people seem to have pegged as the top QB. Nobody will be shocked if Bridgewater goes top 5 (same with Newton). Manziel, Bortles, and Carr are ranked all over the map (same with Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder). They are better comparisons to Ponder, Locker, and Gabbert than Bridgewater is. His situation is more comparable to Newton.
 
Blake said:
I think we are going in a circle here. I think we can both agree that QB is the most important position. And I also think we can agree that teams will reach for a QB. But we cannot just take a QB for the sake of taking a QB if the talent isnt there.
Click to expand...

You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering. Clowney isn't the obvious #1 overall anymore than Bridgewater imo.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say Bridgewater isn't worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 3 slots, you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
 
E
Mr teX said:
You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say he's not worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 2 you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
Click to expand...

Because everyone is an armchair gm and think that the Texans can trade back and get like a thousand future draft picks and then get the next Tom Brady in the 3rd round. Not in the 6th because that would be too weird that the two of the top 5 qbs in history were drafted in the 6th round. Oh and also, they would get all these picks by trading it to a team who will fall in love with Bridgewater, the player they say is not worth a first overall pick.:kitten:
 
Mr teX said:
You're one of the few posters i respect on here in terms of football knowledge
& i agree with everything you've said thus far. What i was really driving at in that post was when the grades for both prospects is relatively even. In that case, the tie always goes to the qb b/c of the position's importance imo.
That is what i think people aren't considering. Clowney isn't the obvious #1 overall anymore than Bridgewater imo.

It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra. It cracks me up how part of the argument for folks not high on Bridgewater is that there's not much difference between he & the other 2 prospects & therefore he's not worth 1:1....Ok, that's fine. But then those same people will turn around and say Manziel and/or Bortles are top 5 picks.

Well if Bridgewater is pretty much considered the best prospect of all qb's & those 2 are top 5 picks, how can they say Bridgewater isn't worth the #1 overall pick? There's only 3 other picks before that & if you're worth any one of those 3 slots, you're certainly worth 1:1 overall.
Click to expand...

bah007 said:
I don't think Clowney fits anywhere in a 34 unless it was a DE in a one gap system.
Click to expand...

Alright then. You dont have to sell me. Lock it up. Bridgewater is coming to Houston!

I really dont think we are foolin anyone here.

We have the #1 pick.
Unless we get a similar offer that the Rams got for RG3 (which wont happen) we are going to pick at 1.1.
We need a franchise QB.
Alot of people including myself consider Teddy B. to potentially be one.
He doesnt wear #8.

No need for games this year. Lets just get this done so people can order their #5 Bridgewater jerseys. Oh and what do you know. #5 is available on the Texans.
 
Mr teX said:
It's all hindsight, but at the end of the day, it's a qb driven league. I know everyone likes to think of Watt as a once in a generation type player and maybe he is, but it's much easier to find players that can give you close to his production by themselves or as a collective unit via the draft & FA. After all, on most defenses there are usually 2 of each position. i don't think anyone would be upset if Watt's production was split between 2 DT's instead of just 1.

The other thing is, qb is really the only position where teams consistently reach for year in, year out. It's just too important of a position not only for the overall success of the team, but also the coach. & you can't be unsettled there if you have any serious plans to reach & win a superbowl.

So i really can't dog any team for reaching for that qb they think is their franchise guy b/c if they're right, it'll pay off in spades....usually with a decade plus of team success & contention. I'd trade Watt or any other player for that everyday & twice on sunday.
Click to expand...

This kind of thinking is what got the Texans HWNSNBM. Meanwhile Peppers was playing in NFC championship/SB's with Jake Delhomme as his QB.
 
stingray said:
E

Because everyone is an armchair gm and think that the Texans can trade back and get like a thousand future draft picks and then get the next Tom Brady in the 3rd round. Not in the 6th because that would be too weird that the two of the top 5 qbs in history were drafted in the 6th round. Oh and also, they would get all these picks by trading it to a team who will fall in love with Bridgewater, the player they say is not worth a first overall pick.:kitten:
Click to expand...

Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.
Click to expand...

You still amuse me comparing TB to Dalton. In fact, with the 8 qbs left, who has elite arm talent? 2, CK and Newton,that's it. Of all the qb in the playoffs, 12 teams, only 2 were drafted had elite arm talent. You don't need elite arm talent to be a great qb. In fact, very few qbs who can throw the ball through a car wash have been sb winning qbs. If you just check the last 10 yrs, Ben and Flacco are the only 2. Coming in, you want a guy with a nfl which TB has. As he gets older and stronger,his arm will get better. He can make every throw inside and outside the numbers now. Can he drift,fade,and throw the ball 70 yds like ben or flacco? No, but that's never been a requirement to being great either.
 
steelbtexan said:
Wrong

It's because we armchair QB's dont think TB is a franchise QB, much less worth 1-1. Unless you consider Dalton worth 1-1 and want many Sunday's like the Bengals suffered Sunday in your future.

This isn't so much about Clowney 1-1 as it is wanting a dedicated QB with elite arm strength. I will admit I'm stained by the Schaub yrs.
Click to expand...


Yeah and how'd that elite arm strength and size help guys like David Klingler, JP Losman, Kerry Collins and Jamarcus Russell?

You have some of the most ridiculous takes i've ever seen. Dalton and TB are no where close to the same prospect coming out.
 
Blake said:
What a useless and ridiculous argument.
Click to expand...

Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah and how'd that elite arm strength and size help guys like David Klingler, JP Losman, Kerry Collins and Jamarcus Russell?

You have some of the most ridiculous takes i've ever seen. Dalton and TB are no where close to the same prospect coming out.
Click to expand...

Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
 
steelbtexan said:
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
Click to expand...

Not picking or trolling,but let's use ur previous example of qbs. First and foremost,you're the only guy I've seen call bridgewater a project,but it is what it is.

Cutler,do you consider him a franchise qb? Most don't,they consider him to have elite arm,questionable decision making and 1 playoff win.

Brees.Brees failed a physical because of a shoulder injury the last game of the season. Not to mention if brees was better earlier, and not getting it till after his 3rd yr,they chargers would hve been drafting #1 and made that trade. Because Brees was kinda sucking,they made the trade and took rivers.

Peyton Manning. We know the story,the neck injuries. If not for that,he would still be in Indy,the Texans never win a division and etc...

Palmer,no need to talk about him nor smith. One guy was looking grea until a knee injury and smith was a bum until harbs and couldn't get his job back because of ck's upside.

So you answer is get this big,strong,mobile cannon armed guy. To which I pointed out there we 2 of such guys among the 12 playoff teams. Those 2, cam and ck play each other this week. In other news,the other regular guys with nfl arms are playing also. I highly doubt the gm is saying,if we can't get a cam,ben,ck,flacco type of qb,then we can't draft one at all. Unless you're trying to prop up garbage like mettenburger.
 
steelbtexan said:
Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
Click to expand...

Rodgers and brees had nfl arms just like TB. Brady didn't even have a nfl arm and even now his arm is just ok. CK and Flacco had eite arms,but go back and watch the senior bowl,I was in mobile, and ck had this funky delivery and they weren't sure how he was gonna fair.

In terms of rodgers,think about this,the 1st 2 yrs,they were sure about him either and his arm because he held the ball so close to his ear,he couldn't generate rpms on the ball. The coaches moved his delivery down and if you've listened to phil simms,you couldn't tell if it was favre throwing or rodgers. Even then,they,they great thompson spent a high 2nd and a and 7th on qbs.
 
PapaL said:
https://twitter.com/gil_brandt/status/420298814864388096



Some sort of package for Mallett? Hmmm...maybe Clowney at 1-1 isn't so far fetched?
Click to expand...

Clowney has the talent to be the first overall pick but he's not coming to Houston if Romeo Crennel is hired to be the DC. He's a typical 4-3 DE and in my opinion you would have to move him to OLB in Crennel's defense.

steelbtexan said:
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
Click to expand...

You're telling us to stop settling at the QB position? Are you serious? We want the top QB in the draft. Not a mediocre veteran free agent or a late round project like Brett Smith. I want the top QB that is available to us. I do not see the Dalton comparison like you do and I think waiting until next year for Jameis Winston is a fantasy that's not going to happen. After all, if Winston is that good then why would the team with the first pick trade him to us?
 
So steelbluetexan, peyton has 1 ring because he doesn't. Have a gun,yet tom brady has 3 because he does? How about this, brady has won a superbowl without a top 5 defense. Brady was sb mvp throwing for 170 yds. Brady and his high powered offenses couldn't crack 20pts in his last 2 sbs. How many playoff games have brady won when his defense gave up more than 24 ppg? So brady who didn't even have matt schaub arm talent wins in the cold cuz?
 
steelbtexan said:
Klingler- got hurt
Losman-Bust, couldn't read defenses, dumb
Collins- Made it to the NFC Championship game his 2nd yr, and a SB with the Giants. I will take that any day
Russell- Over hyped, Codiene addict, dumb

So 1 of the 4 worked and 1 got hurt.

Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.

When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.
Click to expand...

Yet the superbowl Peyton did win was in a driving rain storm against a top 5 defense.

Furthermore, 3 of the guys you named above didn't have the elite arm strength you're coveting when they came out. An NFL strength and conditioning program can and will help with that....
 
steelbtexan said:
Lets talk SB QB's today Rodgers/Kaepernick/Brees/Flacco/Brady all have well above avg arm strength to great arm strength. Guess what else they have in common? Rings.
Click to expand...

Rogers has a great arm , great mechanics but is also very mobile & can dissect a defense with the best of them.

Kaepernick has a big arm but has Frank Gore & a stellar defense to back him up. Defenses have "figured him out" to some extent ... He doesn't have the mechanics or ability to read defenses like Rogers , Brees or Brady. He gets by with more on his physical attributes than football savy IMO.


Brees has a great arm , is very mobile & has an uncanny ability to avoid pressure ... he also has the quick release & ability to read defenses at a high level both pre & post snap.


Brady's got an "above average arm" but mechanics are flawless .... He reads defenses as well or better than anyone not named Peyton Manning ... and despite not being very mobile , avoids pressure well.


All of these guy's have several attributes that make them the best in the game .... Having a strong arm does little when you cant do the other things.






When the weather turns cold you need a gun. This is the reason Peyton only has 1 ring and that ring only came because of 2 things. 1. All of his playoff games were played in a dome or in warm weather. 2. Tony Dungy was very overrated as a HC.[/QUOTE]
 
infantrycak said:
No it isn't.

Let's take a look at these QBs who aren't 1st rounders people point to.
Click to expand...

That's not the way his argument went.

His argument included Jj Watt & Colin Kaepernick. He didn't say anything about "#1 overall, great play offs"
 
steelbtexan said:
Is it false and if so how?

Low release/mechanical problems =pass for me. Carr

Give me a big/ mobile/strong armed/quick release QB that has the desire to be the best or pass on 1-1 QB.

Call it what you want (Ridiculous) but that's my way of thinking. Enough of taking project QB's and hoping for the best.

Find a franchise QB in another draft and trade up to get him. Stop settling. Or vet like Palmer/Cutler/Brees/A.Smith/Manning all were traded for or signed in FA. I'm willing to wait rather than settle. Instant gratification is a sure way to ruin.
Click to expand...

Bridgewater is a mobile, strong armed QB with a quick release. He also has great football intelligence and is one of the most driven players with a great desire to get better and an exceptional work ethic. He is not the biggest QB, but that`s about the only knock about him.

Scouts have praised his mechanics. They are not perfect, but the ball is coming out very quick and very accurate. His release could be a bit higher, but hardly any scout seems to be too concerned about that.

No drafted QB is a lock. Trading up to get the next Luck is either extremely costly or not possible at all, if we don`t have high draft picks to offer. And even then there is no guarantee.

I don`t know if taking Bridgewater would be settling. A lot of people consider him one of the best 2 players in this draft. And a lot of people think, a guy with his football intelligence and love for the game will succeed, especially if he has almost all the desired tools to go with that (great accuracy, great pocket presence and at avoiding the rush, very quick release, great leader and teammate).
 
steelbtexan said:
This kind of thinking is what got the Texans HWNSNBM. Meanwhile Peppers was playing in NFC championship/SB's with Jake Delhomme as his QB.
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Blake said:
What a useless and ridiculous argument.
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steelbtexan said:
Is it false and if so how?
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Life doesn't happen in a vacuum. Carr was a legit prospect who was drafted to an expansion team and failed for various reasons. Peppers joined an established franchise who had been to the playoffs before Peppers even got there.

It sounds to me that you are so unsure of your scouting skills that you need a sure thing in order to pull the trigger on a QB. And your reasoning is that a QB failed the last time we took one this high. Yet everything, and I mean everything is different.

And your solution is to wait for another Andrew Luck which some team is going to trade to you for unknown reasons... OK dude.
 
Mr teX said:
It's really funny b/c all people complained about this year was how bad we were at qb this year. & now that we have our pick of the litter everyone wants to back away & fall on the BPA mantra.
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I'm rarely on board with taking a QB 1st overall. Guy's got to be special, or the draft has to be pretty weak.
 
Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
 
leebigeztx said:
Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
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I will give you this and with his work ethic this is why TB will probably be 1-1.

Everybody seems to be on the TB train. Although I wouldn't pick him 1-1 this is the reason I wont be upset if BO'B picks TB #1.

Trading down is the best option in my mind. I like a QB with a different skillset than most apparently.
 
i get the sense from a media stand point (cant tell what teams are thinking) that if TB was
6.5ft 230 pounds, with everything else being equal he would be considered a franchise QB and a "can't miss" prospect.
 
leebigeztx said:
Corosion, coming out of college,brees nor rodgers were said to have great arms. Tom brady didn't even have a nfl caliber arm. CK had a gun,but he had a windup and a hitch. Now we're talking 21 yr olds. I know for me,I played d-1 hoops. I was 6'3 185. When I left, I was 6'4 .5 and 210. By 24 I was 220lbs. I was a lot bigger and stronger at 24 than at 18
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Has nothing to do with my point which was arm alone isn't going to get it done in the NFL. They have to have some other attribute/s besides that arm to be a top tier NFL QB.
 
dalemurphy said:
I'm pretty sure, with the Crennel hire, that we can take Clowney off the board at #1 (along with my pet project: Aaron Donald). So, that takes care of that.

Other names that may have moved up our board as potential 1st round picks on defense:

A. Barr (OLB)
L. Nix (NT) ... I doubt either would be selected with 1.1, but perhaps could be targeted with a move down a few spots.

Other possibilities if we drop beyond 1.5:
K. Mack OLB
CJ Mosley ILB - New England traded up to 1.9 a few years ago to get J.Mayo.

I would say Crennel's hiring increases the likelihood, a great deal, that the Texans go offense (QB of their liking or Matthews), or trade down.
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If Matthews is our target, then a trade down to 1-4 makes sense because 1-1 and 1-2 are both likely to be traded fo QB hungry teams and 1-3 is also QB hungry. I'm certain Cleveland would rather have pick 1 than pick 4 among the QBs. Using the old formula, this would mean Cleveland's 1-4 {1800}, 1-27 {680} (25-32 depending on Colts Finish) and 2-36 {540} {{3020}} for our 1-1 {3000} or thereabouts. Perhaps more if they get into a bidding war with other teams. We still get Matthews or Barr and pick up two high picks, perhaps including either Bortles or Mettenberger.

1-4 OT Mathews or OLB Barr
1-27 DE Nix or DE Hageman
2-33 S Clinton-Dix
2-36 DE Murphy or OT Richardson
3-65 QB Mettenberger or QB Fales or SS Dixon Or OLB Van Noy
4-97 QB McCarron or SS Harris or OLB SMith or OLB Ford
 
TheIronDuke said:
Watt is by far the greatest defensive player in football, right?

Yet he's the third most valuable player in his draft behind Newton and Kaepernick. That is why you do not draft defense at #1 overall when there's potential great QB's in the draft.
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This is the point. Is there a Great QB among this group of Good prospects or not? If there is you hold onto or trade up for QB. If not, trade with someone who disagrees.
 
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