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Clowney, then what?

htowntexans1985 said:
With the departure of smith, looks even more likely they pick clowney.
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Gee I hope so, but another reason that concerns me about our odds of drafting Clowney is all of this talk by O'Brien about wanting only gung-ho types, team only guys who aren't self-promoters, etc. Of course on the positive side, that would also make it less likely that he draft the little show-boat prima donna, little Johnny FB.
 
With the 34-year-old Peppers signing a three-year deal with the Packers this morning, he’s going to get a chance to play multiple roles for the Packers.

With the team intent on improving things on that side of the ball, they’re asking coordinator Dom Capers to adjust. One move was bringing B.J. Raji back to play over the nose instead of as a defensive end, and Peppers gives them a different type of end to play in their base defense.

He’s still a long and fluid athlete who was better against the run than given credit for, who should be able to make plays with his hand on the ground.

But he’s also still enough of a pass-rusher that they’d be foolish to not let him stand up opposite Clay Matthews in certain situations as well.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ppers-finally-gets-his-wish-to-play-in-a-3-4/
***
OK but then I see stuff like this where the Packers are agreeing to a deal with
Peppers who's 34 freaking years old because he's a stud pass-rusher, and they are giving him 30 million over 3 years, reportedly. I dunno how much of that is guaranteed, but that's a ton for an old dude, and we've got the opportunity to get a similar (if not superior) talent who just turned 21 years old. What they pay for these pass rushers is crazy, hey, Ware got 20 million guarnateed with the Broncos and he's over 30 himself.
Maybe Jadeveon Clowney is just too talented and valuable to pass up ?
 
IDEXAN said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ppers-finally-gets-his-wish-to-play-in-a-3-4/
***
OK but then I see stuff like this where the Packers are agreeing to a deal with
Peppers who's 34 freaking years old because he's a stud pass-rusher, and they are giving him 30 million over 3 years, reportedly. I dunno how much of that is guaranteed, but that's a ton for an old dude, and we've got the opportunity to get a similar (if not superior) talent who just turned 21 years old. What they pay for these pass rushers is crazy, hey, Ware got 20 million guarnateed with the Broncos and he's over 30 himself.
Maybe Jadeveon Clowney is just too talented and valuable to pass up ?
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If he would be guaranteed to be as good as Peppers is now, I can see an argument for us to take him. If he would be as good as Peppers was a couple of years ago I would maybe have to agree to that argument. The problem with Clowney is, while he has talent and is a physical specimen, he has huge bust potential. A guy that never had to work hard - and never did work hard, gets at a cross road when he is in the NFL. Some guys rise up to the challenge and turn into someone like Peppers. Others turn out good but not great, because they don`t have the drive, like Mario Williams - but a lot of guys will just fold and be nothing more than a situational pass rusher with 5-8 sacks a year.

I don`t like the chances with Clowney and I don`t think his upside is worth the risk. We´d be taking major chances with a QB as well, but their upside, at least to me, are worth the risk. And I also really like trading down, since I believe there are about 8 players in the draft that could make a case for being the first overall pick - and we have many needs...
 
Casserly: Jadeveon Clowney is most talented player in draft
"What you want to do is when you wake up the next morning, feel good that you took the best player in the draft," Casserly said on "Path to the Draft." "The best talent in the draft is Jadeveon Clowney. Guy makes rare plays against the run, rare plays against the pass. Maybe the most talented defensive end I've ever scouted."

"There's a lot of questions to answer, but he's a rare talent at his position."

With decades of experience in scouting and the NFL, Casserly calling Clowney the best defensive end he's ever laid eyes on is no small thing. Considered the best player coming out of high school and later racked up accolades in the SEC, most tend to agree that the South Carolina star has shown he could play at a high level in the NFL.

But still, that's not to say he's perfect and a shoo-in for the Texans to take first.

"What about his work habits? What about his practice habits? What about his medical? Those are all legitimate questions," Casserly said. "There are a lot of plays where he doesn't come off blocks as well as I would like and he has to develop a counter move on the pass rush. This is not a no-brainer.

"The other one? He's going to a 3-4 defense. Can he stand up?"
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Can't take him if Cassely likes him. :hankpalm:
 
LikeMike said:
If he would be guaranteed to be as good as Peppers is now, I can see an argument for us to take him.
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Of course there's no guarantee he'd be as good, but on the other hand he might be better. But when is there ever any guarantee in a Draft pick, for any Draft pick ?
LikeMike said:
I don`t like the chances with Clowney and I don`t think his upside is worth the risk. We´d be taking major chances with a QB as well, but their upside, at least to me, are worth the risk.
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But of course his upside is exactly why he might be worth the risk, whatever that risk is perceived to be.
 
IDEXAN said:
But of course his upside is exactly why he might be worth the risk, whatever that risk is perceived to be.
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I'm not sure Clowney has the upside claimed. Looking at him from HS to now he looks like an aberrantly large and early developer who as time passes by others are catching up to developing at the more normal pace hence his apparent dominance falling away progressively. That's not to say he isn't very good, just not this once in a generation hype.
 
infantrycak said:
I'm not sure Clowney has the upside claimed. Looking at him from HS to now he looks like an aberrantly large and early developer who as time passes by others are catching up to developing at the more normal pace hence his apparent dominance falling away progressively. That's not to say he isn't very good, just not this once in a generation hype.
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Sounds like you could be describing Amobi Okoye.
 
IDEXAN said:
Gee I hope so, but another reason that concerns me about our odds of drafting Clowney is all of this talk by O'Brien about wanting only gung-ho types, team only guys who aren't self-promoters, etc. Of course on the positive side, that would also make it less likely that he draft the little show-boat prima donna, little Johnny FB.
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Show boat prima Donna? Really? This cracks me up. People who come to these type conclusions are way to easily enfluenced by media B.S.
 
Julius Peppers: Freshman High School 6'5"/225 lbs.
Jadaveon Clowney: Freshman High School 6'3"/200 lbs.

JP: 34 games, 30.5 sacks, 53 TFL, 5 PD, 13 FF
JdC: 36 games, 24 sacks, 47 TFL, 7 PD, 9 FF

Julius Peppers. The eight-time Pro Bowler was regarded as a mercurial talent with a questionable motor when he entered the NFL in 2002, but the Panthers believed their locker-room culture and coaching staff would bring out the best in Peppers.
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Peppers is similar physically to Clowney, weighing over 270 pounds in college, with excellent height and length and elite athleticism, and he's too showed hot-and-cold effort and production in college.
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I'm good with a Peppers type production, even if it comes with some growing up to do. I'm hearing Jerruh is salivating, along with the Steelers, Vikings and a few other teams.
 
Playoffs said:
Julius Peppers: Freshman High School 6'5"/225 lbs.
Jadaveon Clowney: Freshman High School 6'3"/200 lbs.

JP: 34 games, 30.5 sacks, 53 TFL, 5 PD, 13 FF
JdC: 36 games, 24 sacks, 47 TFL, 7 PD, 9 FF




I'm good with a Peppers type production, even if it comes with some growing up to do. I'm hearing Jerruh is salivating, along with the Steelers, Vikings and a few other teams.
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C'mon jerruh fall in love and make a stupid deal.
 
Playoffs said:
Julius Peppers: Freshman High School 6'5"/225 lbs.
Jadaveon Clowney: Freshman High School 6'3"/200 lbs.

JP: 34 games, 30.5 sacks, 53 TFL, 5 PD, 13 FF
JdC: 36 games, 24 sacks, 47 TFL, 7 PD, 9 FF




I'm good with a Peppers type production, even if it comes with some growing up to do. I'm hearing Jerruh is salivating, along with the Steelers, Vikings and a few other teams.
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And in 4 years be prepared to let either he or JJ walk. If he lives up to the hype how can you absorb 200 M on 2 defensive players who play similar roles?
 
infantrycak said:
I'm not sure Clowney has the upside claimed. Looking at him from HS to now he looks like an aberrantly large and early developer who as time passes by others are catching up to developing at the more normal pace hence his apparent dominance falling away progressively. That's not to say he isn't very good, just not this once in a generation hype.
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That doesn't make sense to me. As a freshman he was playing against mainly juniors and seniors, same as he did as a junior. It's not like playing in a specific age group where people develop differently, ala little league. He was playing against the same aged people his junior year as he was his freshman year.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And in 4 years be prepared to let either he or JJ walk. If he lives up to the hype how can you absorb 200 M on 2 defensive players who play similar roles?
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Yep teams cant have 2/3 players making close to the max $$$$. All of the good teams do. Look at what Denver/New England are doing this offseason.

So it's a great idea to pass on talent. That's how teams become great.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And in 4 years be prepared to let either he or JJ walk. If he lives up to the hype how can you absorb 200 M on 2 defensive players who play similar roles?
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Remember when the NYGiants had Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, & Matthias Kiwinuka...... Jason Pierre Paul?

Couldn't keep them all, but two Super Bowls were well worth the effort. Made Tom Brady look like Blaine Gabbert.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And in 4 years be prepared to let either he or JJ walk. If he lives up to the hype how can you absorb 200 M on 2 defensive players who play similar roles?
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It amazes me that people are more worried about how to pay great players than having great players. Having stars is not a bad thing. Let Rick worry about how to keep them under the cap. Ive seen some creative contracts come through the past couple of years.

Ill take 4-5 years of having 2 dominant players on my d-line. I'm definitely not interested in passing on BPA just because im worried a player might be expensive IF he turns into the stud people thing he should be.
 
Uncle Rico said:
And in 4 years be prepared to let either he or JJ walk. If he lives up to the hype how can you absorb 200 M on 2 defensive players who play similar roles?
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Yeah, you're right.

We should just draft average pass rushers to manage the cap. Winning.
smh.gif
 
Just throwing this out to see what sticks, but ,first it's not about "drafting" the talent, it's rather about being willing to let that talent "walk" after the initial rookie contract.

But rather than "locking the player up", after the initial rookie contract, with a long term contract worth a lot of $, offer only one or two year contracts worth what the player's value demands. If the player walks for the long term contract with guaranteed money, well you have to live it.

Also, why aren't there more contracts with incentive bonuses, rather than upfront $. Rather than the shorter contract I mentioned above, offer a four year contract for less money, but with large bonuses for reaching certain levels of production and/or awards (ie, pro bowl, player of the year, etc).
 
Number19 said:
Just throwing this out to see what sticks, but ,first it's not about "drafting" the talent, it's rather about being willing to let that talent "walk" after the initial rookie contract.
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IMO, it's more about creating a window & maximizing our production. If the Houston Texans had a window (& our salary cap situation leads you to believe we should have) then it's closing. Andre can't keep this up forever. Maybe he's entering into a Jerry Rice bonvoyage stretch... & if he is we've got two, maybe three years.

We've got Jj Watt, producing like no defensive lineman before him, how much longer can he keep that up? We can have him committed to the Houston Texans through the 2015 window, which means two years, maybe. Getting him some help would not be a bad idea.

Cushing... many here believe his window is closed.

I still think we can do something in the next two years. We may not be much of a contender in 2014, but with the teams on our schedule, we don't have to be. We just need to set ourselves up to do something in 2015.
 
thunderkyss said:
Andre can't keep this up forever. Maybe he's entering into a Jerry Rice bonvoyage stretch... & if he is we've got two, maybe three years.
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At this point Rice was not on his bon voyage stretch. He was about to lead the league in receiving for two years and then lead the league in receptions in the third of another 11 seasons.
 
Playoffs said:
Yeah, you're right.

We should just draft average pass rushers to manage the cap. Winning.
smh.gif
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LOL,

Guess what 4 yrs from now AJ's $$$$ will come off of the books. Guess where Clowney's $$$$$ might come from.

Not that I've got any confidence in the Texans org managing the cap effectively.
 
The Fact of the matter is you can't sink $200 Mill into a defensive line. It's as simple as that. OK, the Pats and Broncos have gotten a lot of talent, but show me $200 MILL on any of their lines and I'll shut up. I bet you won't.

With Clowney you have a window. You will never keep them both (Watt). And don't be shocked if Clowney is the kind of guy that holds out if he gets hit with a franchise tag.

Everyone talks about these windows. Guess what JUST happened here in Houston? Our window just shut. That window was built on a stellar defense that fell apart through injury or leaving. Whose to say it can't happen again?

I'm sorry, but F windows. Tell Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees their team will only have small windows at the start of their careers. It's amazing how many years you can leave a 'window' open for a franchise with the right signal caller.
 
TexansFTW said:
The Fact of the matter is you can't sink $200 Mill into a defensive line. It's as simple as that. OK, the Pats and Broncos have gotten a lot of talent, but show me $200 MILL on any of their lines and I'll shut up. I bet you won't.

With Clowney you have a window. You will never keep them both (Watt). And don't be shocked if Clowney is the kind of guy that holds out if he gets hit with a franchise tag.

Everyone talks about these windows. Guess what JUST happened here in Houston? Our window just shut. That window was built on a stellar defense that fell apart through injury or leaving. Whose to say it can't happen again?

I'm sorry, but F windows. Tell Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees their team will only have small windows at the start of their careers. It's amazing how many years you can leave a 'window' open for a franchise with the right signal caller.
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There never really was a window for a SB in Houston. Tell me how the Vikings managed to pay the Williams wall and Jared Allen? How did the NYG manage to pay their great DL? etc.... It can be done if you have proper cap management. BTW, I would be all for taking a QB 1-1 if I though there was one worth it.

Back to your TB masturbation. BTW, I want them to take Robinson, what excuses can you come up with for not picking him?
 
steelbtexan said:
There never really was a window for a SB in Houston. Tell me how the Vikings managed to pay the Williams wall and Jared Allen? How did the NYG manage to pay their great DL? etc.... It can be done if you have proper cap management. BTW, I would be all for taking a QB 1-1 if I though there was one worth it.

Back to your TB masturbation. BTW, I want them to take Robinson, what excuses can you come up with for not picking him?
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I like Robinson and have said he's the best tackle in the draft since the beginning when Matthews fans were telling everyone he was the #1 pick and everyone was drunk. With that said... I don't use a #1 overall on a RT.

Looking to next year to fill crucial holes that are able to be fixed today is a curse many teams frequently do. The thing is we don't know what tomorrow holds therefore I don't bank a #1 on DBrown leaving and Robinson ascending to a talent level that will adequately allow us to let him walk away.

I'm sorry if I made a stance at the end of the football season, stood firm on that stance and didn't waiver. Maybe I should blow in the wind (like Kiper and many here) or sit on a fence like everyone else. Or maybe I should bank on unrealistic trade down scenarios that every other team in the top 5 is also hoping for. Or maybe people that stood firm on Clowney are "masturbating" to him? To the people that love Clowney, I get it. I ain't mad at you. Dude is a G, I just don't want him. Guess I just don't think the same, don't crucify me for it though.
 
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...-Clowney/147adbe6-41cd-4dc3-89e7-0bd05e91ed7f

A pair of Texans safeties are fans of Jadeveon Clowney.
The South Carolina defensive end, and possible first pick in May's NFL Draft, is a friend and former teammate of second-year Texan D.J. Swearinger. The Houston defender said back in February that he hoped the former Gamecock would be selected by the Texans.

But Danieal Manning is a fan of Clowney's, too. During a Tuesday interview with Texans Radio, when asked about the Draft, Manning diplomatically said he'd like to see Matt Schaub return at quarterback. If that were to happen, the nine-year veteran would want Houston to nab Clowney.
"I would love to see somebody like him," Manning said. "I don't think there's a lot of players in the draft like him."
At times, Clowney's work ethic has come into question by some. For Manning, that's not a problem.

"I think if you get around the right guys and coaches, you can see what's really going on with him if that's the case," Manning said. "I don't believe that's the case. I think the guy's a phenomenal player."
Manning, however, made it clear that he's only offering up his opinion.
"I'm not the GM, but if we go that direction I think we'll be fine," Manning said.
The veteran safety also gave an update on his return from a leg injury, and said he's "way ahead of schedule".
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TexansFTW said:
I like Robinson and have said he's the best tackle in the draft since the beginning when Matthews fans were telling everyone he was the #1 pick and everyone was drunk. With that said... I don't use a #1 overall on a RT.

Looking to next year to fill crucial holes that are able to be fixed today is a curse many teams frequently do. The thing is we don't know what tomorrow holds therefore I don't bank a #1 on DBrown leaving and Robinson ascending to a talent level that will adequately allow us to let him walk away.

I'm sorry if I made a stance at the end of the football season, stood firm on that stance and didn't waiver. Maybe I should blow in the wind (like Kiper and many here) or sit on a fence like everyone else. Or maybe I should bank on unrealistic trade down scenarios that every other team in the top 5 is also hoping for. Or maybe people that stood firm on Clowney are "masturbating" to him? To the people that love Clowney, I get it. I ain't mad at you. Dude is a G, I just don't want him. Guess I just don't think the same, don't crucify me for it though.
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After yesterdays scripted workout I thought you may have had 2nd thoughts about taking TB. BTW I'm a Clowney/Robinson guy and haven't waffled either. It's past time to fix the trenches. I used to be a Clowney guy but have kept an open mind and now am in the either or camp. After watching film on both and the Combine. I see that nothing will change your mind when it comes to TB. I was not trying to crucify your stance. I just happen to disagree with it and yesterday confirms what I saw last yr and on film.
 
steelbtexan said:
After yesterdays scripted workout I thought you may have had 2nd thoughts about taking TB. BTW I'm a Clowney/Robinson guy and haven't waffled either. It's past time to fix the trenches. I used to be a Clowney guy but have kept an open mind and now am in the either or camp. After watching film on both and the Combine. I see that nothing will change your mind when it comes to TB. I was not trying to crucify your stance. I just happen to disagree with it and yesterday confirms what I saw last yr and on film.
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I'm starting to lean to Watkins. Hopkins doesn't strike me as a wr1.
 
Vinny said:
I'm starting to lean to Watkins. Hopkins doesn't strike me as a wr1.
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Even if we didn't have AJ, I can't think of a WR other than maybe Calvin Johnson who would be a worthy candidate for #1 overall, and this is not a weak Draft.
 
IDEXAN said:
Even if we didn't have AJ, I can't think of a WR other than maybe Calvin Johnson who would be a worthy candidate for #1 overall, and this is not a weak Draft.
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For me, it's about which players are the most can't-miss and have the highest upside. For me, that's Watkins and then Robinson. I'm not fond of any of the QBs and Clowney's character concerns bother me.

I think Watkins is going to be a Calvin Johnson type of player. Having him learn the game under AJ would be great for both of them and a trio of Watkins, Johnson, and Hopkins would make even a pretty crappy QB look like Joe Montana.

I don't expect the Texans to go that way but that's the way I see it.

OTOH, drafting Robinson solidifies our entire line. Robinson's a mauler who could play RT for a few years and then transition over to LT. If DB goes down, Robinson could easily switch to LT and still play at a very high level. With a lineup of DB, Quessenberry, Myers, Brooks, and Robinson, we'd be solid up front.
 
steelbtexan said:
After yesterdays scripted workout I thought you may have had 2nd thoughts about taking TB. BTW I'm a Clowney/Robinson guy and haven't waffled either. It's past time to fix the trenches. I used to be a Clowney guy but have kept an open mind and now am in the either or camp. After watching film on both and the Combine. I see that nothing will change your mind when it comes to TB. I was not trying to crucify your stance. I just happen to disagree with it and yesterday confirms what I saw last yr and on film.
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Clowney/Robinson or Clowney/Barr? You've never waffled on Clowney and I respect that.

I don't recall seeing you out front w/ Robinson though for what it's worth. All good though, do your thing.
 
Blake said:
@1 or trade down?
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I'd love a trade down, but I'm not sure that there is enough value in the top prospect to warrant someone giving up anything really significant.
IDEXAN said:
Even if we didn't have AJ, I can't think of a WR other than maybe Calvin Johnson who would be a worthy candidate for #1 overall, and this is not a weak Draft.
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I think that Hopkins is a kicked up Jabbar Gaffney...we're gonna need to replace AJ with another lead wr and Watkins is a big physical player.

The Pencil Neck said:
For me, it's about which players are the most can't-miss and have the highest upside. For me, that's Watkins and then Robinson. I'm not fond of any of the QBs and Clowney's character concerns bother me.

I think Watkins is going to be a Calvin Johnson type of player. Having him learn the game under AJ would be great for both of them and a trio of Watkins, Johnson, and Hopkins would make even a pretty crappy QB look like Joe Montana.

I don't expect the Texans to go that way but that's the way I see it.
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I think roughly along these lines this off-season. I think Watkins will be a stud wr. I think Hopkins is a poor man's Chad Johnson.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I would be down for this but Hopkins is going to be a pretty damn good player too. When they were together, they were dominant.
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I'm not as excited about Hopkins upside as some of you guys. I think he's the kind of serviceable Dom Davis level player who we need to let fetch his second contract somewhere else so we won't have to pay him like a wr1 (when the time comes of course). I'd much rather pay a guy like Watkins, a player that really translates to what a wr1 is all about.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
For me, it's about which players are the most can't-miss and have the highest upside. For me, that's Watkins and then Robinson. I'm not fond of any of the QBs and Clowney's character concerns bother me.

I think Watkins is going to be a Calvin Johnson type of player. Having him learn the game under AJ would be great for both of them and a trio of Watkins, Johnson, and Hopkins would make even a pretty crappy QB look like Joe Montana.
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I too am a big Sammy W. fan, and yea he's very talented, but I wouldn't compare him to Calvin J. or even our Johnson because he just doesn't have the size and length of those kinds of receivers. But to me there's only two non-QB positions you'd consider for the #1 overall and that's OLT and an edge-rusher, be it a standup 3-4 guy or a hand-in-the-dirt 4-3 DE.

The Pencil Neck said:
OTOH, drafting Robinson solidifies our entire line. Robinson's a mauler who could play RT for a few years and then transition over to LT. If DB goes down, Robinson could easily switch to LT and still play at a very high level. With a lineup of DB, Quessenberry, Myers, Brooks, and Robinson, we'd be solid up front.
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Duane Brown has probably got 5 years left to his career which means if we'd draft Robinson (or another OT), he's not playing LT until we'd get to his second contract, and that's just too much, too long for a long-term RT.
And I hope you are right about Quess, but I don't think we saw enough of him before he went IR to judge him our answer as one of our OLine starters. But hope I'm mistaken, I mean maybe he's our RT, maybe huh ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Duane Brown has probably got 5 years left to his career which means if we'd draft Robinson (or another OT), he's not playing LT until we'd get to his second contract, and that's just too much, too long for a long-term RT.
And I hope you are right about Quess, but I don't think we saw enough of him before he went IR to judge him our answer as one of our OLine starters. But hope I'm mistaken, I mean maybe he's our RT, maybe huh ?
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Not necessarily, he may be better than Duane Brown from day 1... doubt it, but it's possible. He may be the better choice for LT next season.

If we keep trying to improve the bottom of the roster, we'll continue to have problems with depth. If instead we improve the top of the roster, we'll always have depth.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not necessarily, he may be better than Duane Brown from day 1... doubt it, but it's possible. He may be the better choice for LT next season.

If we keep trying to improve the bottom of the roster, we'll continue to have problems with depth. If instead we improve the top of the roster, we'll always have depth.
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I've always heard it the other way around. The backend or bottom is your depth players. Evaluating which low round or undrafted players to replace those other players are the bones of the team.

I see a lot of people are saying watkins is a can't miss. I don't really agree although I do like him. Watkins is more of a percy harvin type than a legit coverage dictator like the top end wrs in the league.
 
Vinny said:
I'm not as excited about Hopkins upside as some of you guys. I think he's the kind of serviceable Dom Davis level player who we need to let fetch his second contract somewhere else so we won't have to pay him like a wr1 (when the time comes of course). I'd much rather pay a guy like Watkins, a player that really translates to what a wr1 is all about.
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Me too,

I thought Hopkins was a very good player but not a WR1 type guy. This is why I thought he was a reach at the time. The souped up Gaffney comparison is a good one.

Where would Hopkins be drafted in this yrs draft? This is why I say scouts should always evaluate 2 yrs worth of draft prospects instead of the current yr.
 
...

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 10h

@Aldorubio07 @HoustonDiehards you have to know that the Atlanta Falcons and every team after Houston will say everything negative about JC
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Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock 10h

@Aldorubio07 @HoustonDiehards I've watched 90% of the games that Clowney played in his career. You don't want to pass on this guy.
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Vinny said:
I'd love a trade down, but I'm not sure that there is enough value in the top prospect to warrant someone giving up anything really significant.
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You didnt answer my question. :P So just to confirm, are you signing off on spending the #1 on Watkins?
 
Vinny said:
I think that Hopkins is a kicked up Jabbar Gaffney...we're gonna need to replace AJ with another lead wr and Watkins is a big physical player.
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lol, what? Besides AJ Green, Julio Jones, and a few others most rookie WRs don't come out and go HAM. 50/800 for a rookie is hardly Jabar Gaffney, it took him 9 years in the league to come up with numbers like that.

You can't just throw away your first round WR every year. It also didn't help his cause that Matt is color blind and throws to the wrong color jerseys and Case isn't quick enough to make it through his progressions.

FWIW, I would like Watkins too. I would also like Robinson too, and Clowney, and TB, and Mack. You can't have it all though. You're not Tony Montana.
 
leebigeztx said:
I've always heard it the other way around. The backend or bottom is your depth players. Evaluating which low round or undrafted players to replace those other players are the bones of the team.

I see a lot of people are saying watkins is a can't miss. I don't really agree although I do like him. Watkins is more of a percy harvin type than a legit coverage dictator like the top end wrs in the league.
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Agreed with your bottom of the roster philosophy. My draft philosophy is simple if your scouts are doing their job you should hit on 3 players every yr, to varying degrees. Using the Pats for example, 1. Great player (Wilfork/Seymour) 1. Above avg , solid 5 10 yr starter (McCourty/Vrabel) 1. avg starter (Arrington/Givens) If the Texans do this well and also follow the Pats model of taking talented but troubled guys like A. Dennard in rds 5-7 they will improve their overall talent level including the bottom of the roster.

Thoughts?
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed with your bottom of the roster philosophy. My draft philosophy is simple if your scouts are doing their job you should hit on 3 players every yr, to varying degrees. Using the Pats for example, 1. Great player (Wilfork/Seymour) 1. Above avg , solid 5 10 yr starter (McCourty/Vrabel) 1. avg starter (Arrington/Givens) If the Texans do this well and also follow the Pats model of taking talented but troubled guys like A. Dennard in rds 5-7 they will improve their overall talent level including the bottom of the roster.

Thoughts?
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I agree with the 3 player thing 100% which is why I've hated our GM and scouting department SOO much for so long.

We get our 1st round pick right most of the time, but seriously, who can't? I personally feel if you fail on a first you should be fired unless you have a resume that allows it to be forgiven.

So after the first, we flounder and F up... We RARELY get 2 solid players in any drafts, it's a complete joke, and we NEVER get 3 (2009 can be argued, but doesn't fit your criteria which is very similar to mine). If that 3rd guy is starting, we are screwed and there has been a lot of injury. We have to be one of the 5 worst drafting franchises in the NFL.
 
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