Do they have the amount of talent around them that Stroud had?
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CJ Stroud year 2
- Thread starter Texansballer74
- Start date
Do they have the amount of talent around them that Stroud had?
My point is Stroud had the talent around him to win conference and NC. He didn't, the other guys you listed didn't have near the talent around then that Stroud had. No moving of the goal posts.
Actually I may have if his name wasn't Manning. What emotion or bias do I have? As far as winning with the talent he had around him in college, Stroud's career was a failure. As far as his decision to attend OSU, that decision was a great one. He convinced Hannah to draft him 1-2. He gonna get paid and that's all that really matters.
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TexansBull
Hall of Fame
No excuses…
Look at the the teams that have won, the Pats did the same things the Chiefs have done. The Eagles had a bunch of steroid guys, the Bucs? AB anyone. The Rams/ Can you spell Ramsey? Suh?
The Bucs won the Super Bowl because of Antonio Brown's 400 yards and 4 TDs in the 2020 season? Can't name another player other than Ramsey. Who did he kill? Like I said, you've got nothing.
Yep, Tech and OSU are professional franchises playing on level playing fields.
He came up big in the playoffs.
Nobody was killed but Ramsey is a POS with character issues. Same as Suh.
If we're going by the killed category, then I guess Carter wouldn't apply either. I guess that category would only include Ruggs/Leonard Little/Carruth/Warren Wells.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
How can you not be inspired by Stroud and excited for the Texans?
As a child saw his hero and role model go to jail. It would be easy for him to repeat the cycle but he didn’t.
He had to play games with one contact because he knew his mom didn’t have the money for more contacts.
He was almost homeless.
He couldn’t go to camps so he watched videos of Drew Brees at home to get better.
He had to promote himself over and over to get into an elite football camp. He showed up uninvited. He sent email after email. He was last to be invited but got the MVP over Bryce Young. Young was too busy studying for the S2 apparently.
That got him recruited to OSU.
Self motivated. Hard worker. Experienced adversity and didn’t quit. Didn’t fail.
Sign me up for a kid like that instead of the one who has had everything handed to him in his white picket fence home with both parents.
**** football. Dude won the biggest game at life time and time again.
That’s all I need to see.
That championship teams need to take risks on low character players is a figment of your imagination. Your inability to provide examples are the proof. History.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
How did those QBs end up doing in the NFL? Sounds like a trend. I would buy the opposite of that trend.
Also - are you drafting the team or the player?
The kicker shanked the ball in the Georgia game. Had he made it OSU would have won.
Individual evaluation is important when drafting a player. Not team record or team championships.
You're making my point Haskins, Fields had more success than Stroud playing in the same system and I don't consider them to be good NFL QB's. In fact Snyder reaching for Haskins and Hannah reaching for Stroud have a lot in common. Although I do think Stroud has a much better chance of being successful than Haskins was. IMHO Stroud and Fields although different style QB's will have similar type careers. I'm just glad I'm out on the McNair's and the snake oil they're currently peddling. We've all seen this show before.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Using that logic than Tee Martin should have went 1.1 the year after Manning.
You’re making my point for individual vs team performance and your confirmation bias.
Not at all.
Martin was a great college QB not a top tier NFL QB. The same way I feel about the OSU QB's. Great college QB not great NFL QB's. It's okay to agree to disagree.
The 2 winningest orgs of the last 2 decades, Pats and Chiefs would disagree with you.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Success in college does translate to success in the NFL.
Lack of success does not translate to lack of success in the NFL.
That’s the point you just made for me.
To make a definitive statement one way or the other not based on individual skill but rather team championship is beyond questionable to put it politely.
So much is at play with a QB just being drafted into the right situation. Eli Manning and Philip Rivers. Had either been drafted by different teams they may not have had the success or in Rivers case more success because of it.
Brady wouldn’t have been the success he is had he gone somewhere else.
Some could argue that Tim Couch would have had more success not being drafted by an expansion team.
To say someone won’t make it because of an agent, a celebrity, a 4th of July party and the other stuff that was listed is just not smart. To say it politely as possible.
Time will tell
I'm sure the excuses will flow freely. I will be here to give him the Mills treatment. The it's the QB's fault when anything goes wrong.
Mills treatment? This sounds like your 2017 to 2020 Derrick treatment.
Not at all, I thought I was wrong about Derrick after his rookie yr.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
No.
The knock on Stroud is that his completion percentage plummets in a dirty pocket. In the Georgia game, he showed that he COULD perform under pressure and there are other examples here and there, but through a good chunk of his career, he hasn't. My concern is that he had such a great line and such great receivers that it could be making him look better than he's going to be in the NFL with a line that's not always keeping that pressure off him.
My hope now is that he plays more like he did in that Georgia game, using his feet as needed, and that he acclimates to the dirty pockets and gets much better in those situations. AND that we're able to keep him clean with improved line play and a great running attack.
I don’t share your opinion of the gravity of Jalen Carter’s offense. I’d put kids street racing on par with kids smoking weed. Blaming Carter for the death would be like blaming Kelce if his friend OD’d on mj. It’s not like Carter ran them off the road
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I was told street racing isn’t the same as other transgressions. I was also told “I could understand why Carter did what he did“ post #269 in Stroud success thread in regards to Carter lying to LE and running.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
I mean someone rails against the previous guy because “he‘s not a pocket passer“ “too off script” ”will never win a chip playing like this“ “going to get injured” blah blah blah, so you get a young guy that has ALL the things you want and NOW it’s about everything BUT football, you can’t make this **** up!
Its so obvious where the bias lies but they can’t admit it. FFS if I’m that poster I’d find another team to root for and spare myself the waste of time and agony. **** hanging around for the “I told you so“ moment, life is too short for that ****!
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Can’t agree. I had a friend crushed in a rollover due to street racing and the other car wrapped around a light post killing a 10th grader in the passenger seat. IMO both have blame and just because someone makes it out alive doesn’t mean they have no skin in what occurred. Carter made the horrible choice to take part and endanger their lives, those they raced and anyone on the public streets. By somewhat skating on the charge, leaving the scene and not owning up to LE at the time I’d not be shocked that Carter does it again. BTW, no one ODs on MJ and you know that……
If you're referring to me I don't think Stroud can win a championship, because he's never won one at any level in his life. Not even a conference championship. If you think I'm a racist then please explain to me why my QB's I had ranked were
1. Young
2. Hooker
3. Bennett
Although I didn't want any QB to be drafted out of that draft.
I like the helmet in your avatar. It looks like a helmet for the Astros. Is it?
Texazan
Our HOF 34
It’s been a couple months so my sabbatical of not getting tangled in this foolishness lasted a little bit.
Racist??? lol….no man you have a Mulugheta bias. I don’t care who you wanted or didn’t want in this draft or next years or five years from now. We got this kid that plays the way YOU have said wins chips. If Stroud is repped by Lee Stienberg I highly doubt this is your stance, but you do you, looks like fun.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Photoshop of what I’d love to occur with our NFL franchise, not holding my breath lol
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Patrick Mahomes faints…..
Does it surprise you that Clayton Tune was charted as second best under pressure?
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023...ack-class-by-pff-grade-on-pressured-dropbacks
Mahomes played at Tech, which had very little talent.
Stroud had 3 first rd draft picks to throw to 2 yrs ago. Surely you can see the difference in talent and with some of the best talent in the country, you would've thought he could've won at least 1 conference championship.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Mahomes was drafted by Reid, Reid put him on the bench for a season, and Reid modified his offense to take full advantage of what Mahomes brought to the table…..smart move on Reid’s part, which has paid off handsomely.
As for Stroud…..he’s with the Texans now and what he did at Ohio State has absolutely zip, nada, and nothing to do with his Texans career. By the way, it hasn’t even gotten off the ground yet. Who cares what he had in college, the only thing that matters from this day forward is what he has in Houston.
If Mahomes had played for Stroud’s Ohio State teams, would you have wagered everything you own…you know, slid all the chips in on Ohio State and Mahomes to win the Conference Championship and CFB Championship every year he started? Don’t weasel out by saying I’m not a gambling man…..a simple yes or no would suffice. You seem very convinced by all your prophetic assertions, so I’m going to go out on a limb and think your answer may be yes.
As we all know, 11 players take the field for offense, 11 on defense, and 11 on ST’s. As for Stroud, he will get his opportunities to control the outcome of a game on offense, the defense will get their opportunities to control the outcome of a game, and of course ST’s will get their opportunities as well. Seems somewhat foolish to think the QB would control every facet of what it takes to win a game.
For example….let’s take the Patriots at Houston game on 10 October 2021. Mills had himself a day completing 23-30 passes for 312 yards and 3 TD’s to zero INT’s. Heck, he helped them to a 22-9 lead at roughly 3 minutes into the 3rd quarter…..but the Texans would ultimately lose this game 22-25. So, who shoulders the blame for this loss? The HC/OC for a conservative attitude due to having the lead, the defense who cost the team the lead, or Mills for not being able to turn it back on and win the game?
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Porky
Hall of Fame
I’m a down the middle guy. I see what I see and say what I say based on those observations agenda free. I bashed the Texans for years because it was deserved. If you can’t see that the worm has turned and this org is turning a corner with the arrow pointing up, you’re either blind as a bat…or you have an agenda.
That said, Stroud is a huge short/mid term key to the overall success of the team. As a rookie, he’s bound to wet the bed more than once. But after nearly 50 years of watching QB play, I have developed an innate sense that tells me which rookies can work their way through their follies and become stars like P Manning..,which ones have a low/mid starter ceiling but can play and stick around…and which ones will soon be busts and relegated to the bench, or worse. I’d be shocked if Stroud busts. For me, it’s how high is the ceiling? His rookie campaign will leave a ton of breadcrumbs, and year two will tell us where that ceiling lies. Let’s hope it’s high!
That said, Stroud is a huge short/mid term key to the overall success of the team. As a rookie, he’s bound to wet the bed more than once. But after nearly 50 years of watching QB play, I have developed an innate sense that tells me which rookies can work their way through their follies and become stars like P Manning..,which ones have a low/mid starter ceiling but can play and stick around…and which ones will soon be busts and relegated to the bench, or worse. I’d be shocked if Stroud busts. For me, it’s how high is the ceiling? His rookie campaign will leave a ton of breadcrumbs, and year two will tell us where that ceiling lies. Let’s hope it’s high!
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
Yes but it seems it’s a bit of a stretch. I believe only one was an orphan, Andrew Jackson. The others’ died when they were all teens. This was common back then. The loss of a parent is devastating but it’s not like they grew up without both parents. They did.
A side fact that I learned while looking this up… not one single President has been an only child. I know it’s got nothing to do with football… i just thought it was interesting. That’s all.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Every quarterback struggles in a murky dirty pocket. Their numbers are going to plummet. As far as CJ is concerned the sample size wasn’t massive at all. That oline was just that good. But the defenses will win some of the times. Top level defenses like Michigan will apply heavy pressure on any opposing quarterbacks. Even the GOAT struggled against top notch defenses who gets after the quarterback.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I was really hoping we were going to nab him in the later rounds in a kind of RGIII/Cousins sort of draft strategy.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Good insight from an agent on the top 3 QB's in this class and what's holding up the signings...
www.cbssports.com
Agent's Take: The holdup in signing top 2023 draft picks, and sticking points for Bryce Young, others unsigned
Joel Corry also suggests it might be best for C.J. Stroud to let the No. 1 pick sign first
www.cbssports.com
Good stuff.Good insight from an agent on the top 3 QB's in this class and what's holding up the signings...
Agent's Take: The holdup in signing top 2023 draft picks, and sticking points for Bryce Young, others unsigned
Joel Corry also suggests it might be best for C.J. Stroud to let the No. 1 pick sign first
Those numbers are over my head, hard to wrap my head around it.
High draft picks in back to back years... sheesh. Two top 5 picks in the same draft with a top 5 pick last year & possibly another next year...
Definitely understand needing the boss to approve two top 5 picks in one year
Thanks Porky for the story !Good insight from an agent on the top 3 QB's in this class and what's holding up the signings...
Agent's Take: The holdup in signing top 2023 draft picks, and sticking points for Bryce Young, others unsigned
Joel Corry also suggests it might be best for C.J. Stroud to let the No. 1 pick sign first
OK so I didn't spend a lot of time on all the details but even with the slotting of compensation for the various picks it would seem that there's still opportunities for CJs agent to pick another fight with the Texans if he's so inclined which based upon our past experience would seem to be the case.
If CJs agent has issues maybe a "middle man" like the matriarch of CJs family can prevail upon her sons agent to act in good faith which I'm confidant Casserio & Texans ownership will do given the stakes here and that time is of the essence, i.e., CJ needs to be under contract on or before the beginning of TC.
Stroud’s father went to prison when CJ was a teen. So not a stretch.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
And one could assume he checked out on the family earlier than that given his substance addiction/abuse and other illegal activities.
However it sounds like CJ has forgiven him. It was the loss after the Georgia game that did that if I recall correctly.
[mention]steelbtexan [/mention] would be proud of him since he too believes in forgiveness. Lol. I couldn’t pass it up.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Derrick picked a fight with the Texans not his agent. The agent was doing exactly what his client demanded. Therefore CJ agent is not looking for another opportunity to pick a fight with the Texans. Lol Porky posted a great article showing it’s normal for top 5 draft picks takes a little longer than the rest. Anderson signing earlier is pretty much an outlier.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
His father -still- was around. Prison does not equal dead but yeah I get what you’re saying.
Dejaview
Wahoo Sabi
..
I read some CJ quotes this morning on the Texans web but damn if I can find them now so I will have to paraphrase. I believe they were recent? He said he is really happy with how the fans in Houston have embraced him and how he wants to be a leader in the community and a great football player. He also said he wants to be a role model for kids and that is very important to him. This young man has set high standards for himself and needs everyone’s support. We can always use a new hero.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
Thought that was one of CJ's strong suits...was the ability to stay in the pocket and step up and deliver a dime in the midst of a collapsing pocket or in the face of pressure??? Wasnt that the main comparison between CJ and Bryce?? Bryce pocket presence and ability to make off script throws, while CJ's was to stay in the pocket and deliver?? Im pretty sure thats why everyone thought CJ couldnt scramble, but showed that off when needed in the GA game...
Texansballer74
The Marine
It all started with media heads.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtube.com
And trickled down to some members concerns on here.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
ridiculous...lets not use our eyes and believe what we see....instead lets just believe what other people tell us and regurgitate what they say and claim it as fact....It all started with media heads.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
And trickled down to some members concerns on here.
sounds all too familiar like the pandemic