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[CHRONIC] Butler, White sign one-year tenders with Texans

White is no big deal, fact is he may not make the final roster this year, but
I often wonder if we shouldn't give Butler a more prominent role ?
I think Duane Brown Brown is like Chester was - better LG prospect than LT and perhaps make Butler our starting LT ? Maybe the Texans would give that a shot if they'd drafted Brown in, oh say, the third round instead of the first ?
 
IDEXAN said:
White is no big deal, fact is he may not make the final roster this year, but
I often wonder if we shouldn't give Butler a more prominent role ?
I think Duane Brown Brown is like Chester was - better LG prospect than LT and perhaps make Butler our starting LT ? Maybe the Texans would give that a shot if they'd drafted Brown in, oh say, the third round instead of the first ?
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The difference is that Brown was drafted specifically to play LT. Pitts was drafted as a guard and moved to LT of injury need.

The only place I have seen it suggested that Brown is a guard prospect on this board. I don't recall seeing that in any pre-draft material or by any experts, scouting services etc.
 
I don't have a link. But I do remember reading that, of the seemingly poor sacks allowed specifically against Brown, 5 of those occurred with Schaub having at least 3 1/2 seconds to get rid of the ball..........and he didn't.

Having said that, it would be hard bent to classify Brown as a dominant LT. In fact, it seems to me, that at this point, without a strong LG by his side, his true performance level is more accurately exposed. I like Brown. But, continuing to look for a more dominant LT cannot be criticized.
 
I know it's not a popular opinion, but if we're going to replace either tackle, I think it would be Winston. I think there is an extremely large amount of improvement to be had on the right side of the line.


I also don't think White will make the team.
 
Wow, finally, somebody else who thinks Winston is an under achiever. I had a very hard time punching holes in Brisel's game before he got hurt and towards the end of the 2008 season. Never spectacular but I could never find anything specifically to complain about. Winston played poorly several times a game when I rewatched him isolated.

He really seemed to improve down the stretch against the lesser opponents and I honestly can't remember his performance in the NE game.

He get's caught up and beat waaaaaaaay to often against good players. Partly, better play from the interior could make this look much better but when #8 has to sit on the back side of the pocket Winston is a liability.
 
The two starting left tackles in the Saints-Colts super bowl were Jermaine Bushrod and Charlie Johnson. Just because Duane Brown isn't a Joe Thomas or Ryan Clady super elite left tackle in the NFL doesn't mean he isn't doing is job. We have our two tackles for the future. Our tackle combination is top 10 in the league and neither is older than 27 years of age. When Duane Brown wasn't trying to be a hero and play on a bum knee he played like a Kubiak style left tackle should play.
 
I like the Rashad Butler re-signing but not Chris White, his position on the team needs to be upgraded. Also if this is the Texans idea of improving the team through FA then it's no wonder we continue to fail as an organization. With 5 positional holes on the team, (CB, RB, OG/C, FS, and DT) it sure would have been nice if we had filled at least one of those positions in FA. Not all of those positions are going to be filled in the draft and will be holes/needs in next years draft as well.
 
I would not mind seeing Eric moved to RG and then draft a new RT I think that'd be a better fit for Winston.
 
thunderkyss said:
I know it's not a popular opinion, but if we're going to replace either tackle, I think it would be Winston. I think there is an extremely large amount of improvement to be had on the right side of the line.


I also don't think White will make the team.
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I agree with both of your thoughts but would add that there's a large amount of improvement needed at every O-line position.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I like the Rashad Butler re-signing but not Chris White, his position on the team needs to be upgraded.
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Just because a guy's position needs to be upgraded doesn't mean you don't sign the guy. We need camp bodies and we need depth. Even if we upgrade his position, that doesn't mean he'll be let go but with this contract, we've got someone for TC.

And I don't think anyone, including the Texans' FO, considers this as upgrading through FA. I don't think the Texans' FO strategy includes trying very hard to upgrade through FA.

And you don't have to plug all your holes to be a great team.
 
I have a hard time believing Butler wasn't one of our 5 best OL after the two starting guards went down. For a coaching staff that puts such a premium on versatility you would think they would've had a backup plan that involved moving one of the starting OTs into guard and getting Butler in the game if we were hit with injuries on the interior OL like what occured.

I honestly believe if Butler was in the lineup after Brisiel went down our OL would've been good enough to get one more win out of our schedule and into the playoffs.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I have a hard time believing Butler wasn't one of our 5 best OL after the two starting guards went down. For a coaching staff that puts such a premium on versatility you would think they would've had a backup plan that involved moving one of the starting OTs into guard and getting Butler in the game if we were hit with injuries on the interior OL like what occured.

I honestly believe if Butler was in the lineup after Brisiel went down our OL would've been good enough to get one more win out of our schedule and into the playoffs.
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If anything you maybe should question Butler's ability to play guard versus the starters. Generally, the back-up player needs to be the one who can play all over the place not the starters.
 
I think the coaches need to be able to adapt. If I could pick one thing to change about the coaching staff it would be that they could stand to be just a bit less stubborn and more creative and adaptive.

Putting the 5 best OLinemen on the field could have been the right thing to do but it's also possible that they tried it in practice and it didn't work out.
 
barrett said:
I think the coaches need to be able to adapt. If I could pick one thing to change about the coaching staff it would be that they could stand to be just a bit less stubborn and more creative and adaptive.

Putting the 5 best OLinemen on the field could have been the right thing to do but it's also possible that they tried it in practice and it didn't work out.
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I think more coaches are of the mindset that time is better spent trying to get players to do better at their current position than shuffling around players.
 
TheRealJoker said:
I have a hard time believing Butler wasn't one of our 5 best OL after the two starting guards went down. For a coaching staff that puts such a premium on versatility you would think they would've had a backup plan that involved moving one of the starting OTs into guard and getting Butler in the game if we were hit with injuries on the interior OL like what occured.

I honestly believe if Butler was in the lineup after Brisiel went down our OL would've been good enough to get one more win out of our schedule and into the playoffs.
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If Butler had been better at guard, I think he would have been kicked inside. I think he wasn't moved inside because he didn't play guard as well as the guys we had playing guard.
 
I like Brown especially for the money we pay him. Premium LTs cost more than just about any other position except for QB and maybe WR and DE. Let him continue to be "overrated" while he provides more than adequate blindside protection, and we won't have to give him a $50M contract when his expires in a few years.
 
therealjoker said:
i have a hard time believing butler wasn't one of our 5 best ol after the two starting guards went down. For a coaching staff that puts such a premium on versatility you would think they would've had a backup plan that involved moving one of the starting ots into guard and getting butler in the game if we were hit with injuries on the interior ol like what occured.
i honestly believe if butler was in the lineup after brisiel went down our ol would've been good enough to get one more win out of our schedule and into the playoffs.
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this!
 
Hmmm... seems to me like moving the only backup tackle to start at G is too risky. What happens if one of the tackles gets injured, or Butler gets injured? T is more important than G and there is more depth at G. IMO you have to keep your backup T safe.
 
barrett said:
I think the coaches need to be able to adapt. If I could pick one thing to change about the coaching staff it would be that they could stand to be just a bit less stubborn and more creative and adaptive.

Putting the 5 best OLinemen on the field could have been the right thing to do but it's also possible that they tried it in practice and it didn't work out.
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It's more possible that they couldn't try it in practice because Alex Gibbs didn't like the idea and is a psychotic control freak that was appeased far too much.

my larger point is that the staff got a lot less stubborn when he walked out the door.
 
wagonhed said:
Hmmm... seems to me like moving the only backup tackle to start at G is too risky. What happens if one of the tackles gets injured, or Butler gets injured? T is more important than G and there is more depth at G. IMO you have to keep your backup T safe.
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That makes sense. However, when you lose two starters at guard by week 2 and you have Chris Myers at Center, perhaps worrying about the backups backup at tackle shouldn't be the number one priority.
 
dalemurphy said:
That makes sense. However, when you lose two starters at guard by week 2 and you have Chris Myers at Center, perhaps worrying about the backups backup at tackle shouldn't be the number one priority.
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Well I'm far from an expert on all of this, but I can certainly agree that priorities were not very well in order regarding our Oline last year (and previous years) (cough Myers).
 
IDEXAN said:
White is no big deal, fact is he may not make the final roster this year, but
I often wonder if we shouldn't give Butler a more prominent role ?
I think Duane Brown Brown is like Chester was - better LG prospect than LT and perhaps make Butler our starting LT ? Maybe the Texans would give that a shot if they'd drafted Brown in, oh say, the third round instead of the first ?
Click to expand...

That jail break screen they scored on to Steve Slaton in the Cincinnati game, there aren't but a handful of OLTs that can make that kick out block. If you want a supreme OLT prospect ? Gotta spend some draft capitol or lose a bunch of games. I have seen no one on this board advocate that. Are you prepared to give up the 2010 one, two, three and our one next year to move up a get Okong ? Didn't think so. Quit your bitchin'.
 
barrett said:
Wow, finally, somebody else who thinks Winston is an under achiever. I had a very hard time punching holes in Brisel's game before he got hurt and towards the end of the 2008 season. Never spectacular but I could never find anything specifically to complain about. Winston played poorly several times a game when I rewatched him isolated.

He really seemed to improve down the stretch against the lesser opponents and I honestly can't remember his performance in the NE game.

He get's caught up and beat waaaaaaaay to often against good players. Partly, better play from the interior could make this look much better but when #8 has to sit on the back side of the pocket Winston is a liability.
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We're seeing the same things.

Winston may be a good guy but he had a below averege year last season. IMHO
 
m5kwatts said:
The offense didn't miss a beat when Butler replaced DB in the 2nd JAX game
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Brown sprained his knee the previous game against Indy but continued to play throughout the season (only missed most of the second half against the Rams, a game in which the Texans struggled offensively.)

Brown played the whole game against the Jags and was hobbling on one foot.
 
dalemurphy said:
It's more possible that they couldn't try it in practice because Alex Gibbs didn't like the idea and is a psychotic control freak that was appeased far too much.

my larger point is that the staff got a lot less stubborn when he walked out the door.
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That some mad speculation dude. Might change your name to Spec Murphy.

steelbtexan said:
We're seeing the same things.

Winston may be a good guy but he had a below averege year last season. IMHO
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He's just terribly inconsistent. I can't figure it out. I see that "heavy legged waist bender" thing with him all too often.
 
barrett said:
Wow, finally, somebody else who thinks Winston is an under achiever. I had a very hard time punching holes in Brisel's game before he got hurt and towards the end of the 2008 season. Never spectacular but I could never find anything specifically to complain about. Winston played poorly several times a game when I rewatched him isolated.

He really seemed to improve down the stretch against the lesser opponents and I honestly can't remember his performance in the NE game.

He get's caught up and beat waaaaaaaay to often against good players. Partly, better play from the interior could make this look much better but when #8 has to sit on the back side of the pocket Winston is a liability.
Click to expand...
Winston is neither an underachiever nor an overachiever. He gets beat here and there off the edges but make up for it mostly as a run blocker and a good downfield blocker on screens.

I would not have minded if they had drafted Sebastian Vollmer for cheap (how did they miss a local product like that?) and move Winston inside last year though.

Brisiel was missed due to subpar plays by our guards last year, but I think Caldwell can improve; he showed promise as a rookie so there's hope.
Between these two and Smith (assuming Brisiel comes back healthy), we should be better this year.
 
76Texan said:
Winston is neither an underachiever nor an overachiever. He gets beat here and there off the edges but make up for it mostly as a run blocker and a good downfield blocker on screens.

I would not have minded if they had drafted Sebastian Vollmer for cheap (how did they miss a local product like that?) and move Winston inside last year though.

Brisiel was missed due to subpar plays by our guards last year, but I think Caldwell can improve; he showed promise as a rookie so there's hope.
Between these two and Smith (assuming Brisiel comes back healthy), we should be better this year.
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76Texan, I know you watch the line a lot but I don't recall your thoughts on trying Butler at RT and sliding Winston to guard? Now, I don't want to go into this season with that plan, but I thought it made sense last year after Briesel and Pitts went down. For one, don't you think Myers would look better with a bigger and more powerful lineman (like Winston) next to him?
 
barrett said:
That some mad speculation dude. Might change your name to Spec Murphy.
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For an anarchist and an artistic thinker, you sure obsess a lot over scientific evidence.

You should read Descartes. It's amazing how much I can figure out without worrying about little things like facts and observations. I would suggest, for an exercise, that you lock yourself in a dark closet for a few hours and just think... and see what happens. Unfortunately, I know too well how much trouble that would get you into.
 
White signing is eh to me. IMO he's stuck around on the squad longer than he should've but, that isn't new to the staff. I hope we bring in some interior lineman that makes it difficult for him make the squad.

I think tendering Butler and getting him signed for the next year is really good. Guy looks solid as a backup and I think if given a real shot he could push for PT at one of the tackle spots.

I'm not keen on moving a guy whose played well at tackle to experiment with him at guard. Forget moving Butler, Winston or Brown inside. Just put your best two starting and I think all three are solid enough to be a swing tackle.

Far as Winston goes, bit of an enigma. When Weary was the starting RG the right side of the line seemed to get a nice push and they gave Winston the extension. Enter Brisiel into the lineup and Winston hasn't been the same. Coincidence? I don't know, but the possible answers seem to point to the rest of interior OL.
 
If this draft successfully address our needs at RB,CB, FS and DT; it will be very interesting to see what is targeted the next draft. We should know more about both lines, Rb and if Dan O. is our back up QB.
 
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