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Christian Hackenberg

Blake said:
Of course I would be down with that. I just would hate to lose him by waiting around too long. I see him sitting and learning for a year, so a 1 year solution will be needed.



Personally I think Cook is in the same boat as Hackenberg. Boat loads of potential, but really didn't get it done this past year. But somehow to you and others Cook is rated that much higher? I think Cook needs to marinate on the bench for a year as well.

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I've said it before... watching Cook & looking at his numbers shows two different guys. When I look at Cook, I'd never imagine his completion percentage would be so low. I like what I see when looking at Connor Cook.

Those numbers... while you could argue they're about the same, the ypa leans to Cook's favor & the TD:INT ratio is definitely in Cook's favor.
 
Blake said:
Of course I would be down with that. I just would hate to lose him by waiting around too long. I see him sitting and learning for a year, so a 1 year solution will be needed.



Personally I think Cook is in the same boat as Hackenberg. Boat loads of potential, but really didn't get it done this past year. But somehow to you and others Cook is rated that much higher? I think Cook needs to marinate on the bench for a year as well.

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Funny how "haters" see what they want when judging Hack with poor talent around him but advocate for Cook who played similarly his entire career with better surrounding casts. Hilarious.
 
amazing80 said:
Funny how "haters" see what they want when judging Hack with poor talent around him but advocate for Cook who played similarly his entire career with better surrounding casts. Hilarious.
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Me think thou doth protest to much...and your bias shows how deeply mad in love you're with one Christain Hackenberg and therein lies one's true lack of objectivity.
 
amazing80 said:
Funny how "haters" see what they want when judging Hack with poor talent around him but advocate for Cook who played similarly his entire career with better surrounding casts. Hilarious.
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I wouldn't say they played similarly, the numbers show as much clearly. I'm not big on Cook, but I definitely like him more than Hackenburg.

By the numbers:

Cook: 57.5% completion percentage, 7.9 yards per attempt, 71 touchdowns to 22 interceptions.

Hackenburg: 56.1% completion percentage, 6.8 yards per attempt, 48 touchdowns to 31 interceptions.

Those numbers aren't similar. The only thing similar about the two is that they weren't as accurate as the other top guys in the class.
 
Texian said:
Me think thou doth protest to much...and your bias shows how deeply mad in love you're with one Christain Hackenberg and therein lies one's true lack of objectivity.
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lol, deeply mad in love? I actually prefer Brandon Allen, but thats a debate for another thread.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I wouldn't say they played similarly, the numbers show as much clearly. I'm not big on Cook, but I definitely like him more than Hackenburg.

By the numbers:

Cook: 57.5% completion percentage, 7.9 yards per attempt, 71 touchdowns to 22 interceptions.

Hackenburg: 56.1% completion percentage, 6.8 yards per attempt, 48 touchdowns to 31 interceptions.

Those numbers aren't similar. The only thing similar about the two is that they weren't as accurate as the other top guys in the class.
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The career numbers are pointless

Their numbers from 2015 are similar, Cook has a better TD:INT ratio, but he also has a much better roster. It isn't unexpected to think he would put up bigger numbers with better talent.
 
amazing80 said:
The career numbers are pointless

Their numbers from 2015 are similar, Cook has a better TD:INT ratio, but he also has a much better roster. It isn't unexpected to think he would put up bigger numbers with better talent.
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The career numbers aren't pointless and their 2015 numbers aren't all that similar either.

Cook in 2015: 56.1% completion percentage, 7.7 yards per attempt, 24 touchdowns to 7 interceptions.

Hackenberg in 2015: 53.5% completion percentage, 7 yards per attempt, 16 touchdowns to 6 interceptions.

Agree to disagree.
 
If we get the 2013 Hack, his one season with OB i wouldnt mind it. He just looked like a completely different player after OB left
 
I don't even see Cook as draftable really, at least not as a potential starter. Obviously, I realize that he will be drafted with that idea in mind, but I don't think that he should be. I see him as a low end starter or a talented backup.

He comes from a pro system that has become a NFL QB factory (say what you want about their respective talent levels but these guys are coming out prepared) and he has a brutal flaw in his accuracy. I just don't see a successful NFL QB who misfires that consistently. And I also believe that if his accuracy could be fixed it would have been fixed by now. This guy is not raw. He has been coached up by one of the best college coaching staffs in the country for four years. I just don't believe that they couldn't fix it if it could be fixed. They coached up no-talent Brian Hoyer well enough to get a lengthy NFL career but can't teach this stud how to hit the broad side of a barn? Not buying it. He's never going to be accurate enough.

I put Hack in a slightly different category. I see a guy who got by on physical tools alone. He's never been coached up. In his freshman year he wasn't asked to do that much. The gameplan was run the ball, heave it to Allen Robinson (69 catches and 1099 yards more than the second leading receiver) if we're forced to throw, and don't turn the ball over. O'Brien was a good enough coach to understand how to protect Hack from his own weaknesses and he did so. But I wouldn't say that Hack improved because of it. He was just well protected by his coach. And I don't blame O'Brien for that either. He's got a true freshman QB in the Big Ten.

And then his second coach has been a total disaster. They have very little talent and absolutely no identity on offense. They trot the same scheme out each week with no direction or imagination. They can't block. They can't catch. Hack makes the same mistakes every single game and is never corrected. The backup QB comes in and immediately makes the same exact mistake.

Hack looks like he hasn't been coached at all over the past two seasons. And so he hasn't improved at all either. He's had to create some bad habits with his mechanics and decision-making to survive, but that stuff won't fly at the next level. I think some people will look at Hack and say that his lack of improvement and bad habits can't be overcome. And I think I lean toward that side as well. But other people will look at him and see a prototypical set of tools that can be molded with correct coaching. Coaching that he has never received. And while I don't think I agree with that, I do at least understand the thought process.
 
Shishkabob said:
If we get the 2013 Hack, his one season with OB i wouldnt mind it. He just looked like a completely different player after OB left
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I mean, that's the biggest argument around him.

We wouldn't be drafting him for the Hackenberg misused in a spread offense without the personnel to pull it off under Franklin.

We would be drafting the 2013 Hack under BoB.

Not saying I like the move, but the Hackenberg that is being assessed, IMO, is basically 2013 Hackenberg under BoB projected as an NFL starter while basically throwing away 2014 and 2015. I'm not saying this is correct or right, I'm just saying the feeling I'm getting. With that said, my feelings have been wrong before though.
 
Look, I was a big fan of 2013 Hackenberg. But there is a huge problem with scouting only 2013 Hackenberg. And that is that you can't just erase the damage that has been done to him over the past two years, physically and mentally.

No matter how much you liked 2013 Hackenberg, that is not the guy you're drafting. He may be in there somewhere. But you're going to have to fight through two solid years of bad habits, piss poor coaching, getting hit in the face every time he looks past his first read, not knowing how to set protections, getting confused by defenses, throwing into coverage, etc. etc.

This guy has two years of baggage that you want him to erase from his memory. And even if you could erase all the mental and physical errors that he has learned in the last two years, now you still have to go back and teach him the stuff that he was supposed to be learning instead.

That is a long term rebuild. I do believe there are people in the NFL that could possibly pull it off. I do not believe that we have those people in Houston.
 
bah007 said:
Look, I was a big fan of 2013 Hackenberg. But there is a huge problem with scouting only 2013 Hackenberg. And that is that you can't just erase the damage that has been done to him over the past two years, physically and mentally.

No matter how much you liked 2013 Hackenberg, that is not the guy you're drafting. He may be in there somewhere. But you're going to have to fight through two solid years of bad habits, piss poor coaching, getting hit in the face every time he looks past his first read, not knowing how to set protections, getting confused by defenses, throwing into coverage, etc. etc.

This guy has two years of baggage that you want him to erase from his memory. And even if you could erase all the mental and physical errors that he has learned in the last two years, now you still have to go back and teach him the stuff that he was supposed to be learning instead.

That is a long term rebuild. I do believe there are people in the NFL that could possibly pull it off. I do not believe that we have those people in Houston.
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Fantastically stated. I think Hackenberg's ideal scenario is getting drafted by Arians in Arizona and sitting behind Palmer for 2-3 years.
 
amazing80 said:
The career numbers are pointless

Their numbers from 2015 are similar, Cook has a better TD:INT ratio, but he also has a much better roster. It isn't unexpected to think he would put up bigger numbers with better talent.
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I'm not a Hack hater. If we end up getting Hackenberg, I wouldn't be bent out of shape about it. I also don't care for stats. Others are bringing Cook's stats to the discussion & my answer has been... "I like what I see when I watch him play."

I think Hackenberg's got potential. I just never thought of him as a first rounder.

& while it may be true that his supporting cast wasn't that great & may have affected his numbers, but when has that ever been the case for anyone else? The only guys I can think of in recent history where that was stated, was Jay Cutler & Tj Yates... neither has proven that they were better than the team around them, I don't think.
 
I'm not arguing or disputing what you're saying at all Bah007. I in fact agree.

I'm only saying this is what I think is going to happen and I've come to terms with it. He's our guy. I'm more confident of that than I am on a Vegas bachelor party after having like 14 drinks and putting all my remaining weekend's money on black on the roulette wheel. It's happening the same way I always seem to double up and be allowed to continue in my foolish ways.
 
bah007 said:
Look, I was a big fan of 2013 Hackenberg. But there is a huge problem with scouting only 2013 Hackenberg. And that is that you can't just erase the damage that has been done to him over the past two years, physically and mentally.

No matter how much you liked 2013 Hackenberg, that is not the guy you're drafting. He may be in there somewhere. But you're going to have to fight through two solid years of bad habits, piss poor coaching, getting hit in the face every time he looks past his first read, not knowing how to set protections, getting confused by defenses, throwing into coverage, etc. etc.

This guy has two years of baggage that you want him to erase from his memory. And even if you could erase all the mental and physical errors that he has learned in the last two years, now you still have to go back and teach him the stuff that he was supposed to be learning instead.

That is a long term rebuild. I do believe there are people in the NFL that could possibly pull it off. I do not believe that we have those people in Houston.
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We will have to disagree on whether those people are in Houston. I believe if anybody can fix Hack it is the coach that taught him the most in the 1st place, a coach who Hack said was a father figure to him. Also a coach that got the best yrs out of Fitz/Hoyerible.

Yep, Hack's best shot is with BOB and he practically said so in his speech declaring for the draft. Atleast I hope I'm right, because I think Hack's going to be the pick.
 
steelbtexan said:
We will have to disagree on whether those people are in Houston. I believe if anybody can fix Hack it is the coach that taught him the most in the 1st place, a coach who Hack said was a father figure to him. Also a coach that got the best yrs out of Fitz/Hoyerible.

Yep, Hack's best shot is with BOB and he practically said so in his speech declaring for the draft. Atleast I hope I'm right, because I think Hack's going to be the pick.
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I wouldnt be horribly upset by it, but that means we need to find a run game, because in all his years at PSU he looked the best while running play action
 
Shishkabob said:
I wouldnt be horribly upset by it, but that means we need to find a run game, because in all his years at PSU he looked the best while running play action
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Agreed, and I'm not saying I want Hack to be the pick. If Wentz falls to8-10 range I would trade up for him. Or pick Coker, who doesn't have Hack's issues at 22.

With that said, I wont be upset if Hack is the pick at 22 because that's who BOB is betting his job on and it's about time this happened.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, and I'm not saying I want Hack to be the pick. If Wentz falls to8-10 range I would trade up for him. Or pick Coker, who doesn't have Hack's issues at 22.

With that said, I wont be upset if Hack is the pick at 22 because that's who BOB is betting his job on and it's about time this happened.
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I still stand by my opinion that Coker wont be anywhere near a 1st round pick. Pretty much every pundit doesnt even have him in their top 200, and i know they dont represent the teams, but i cant recall them being that far off on any prospect
 
Shishkabob said:
I still stand by my opinion that Coker wont be anywhere near a 1st round pick. Pretty much every pundit doesnt even have him in their top 200, and i know they dont represent the teams, but i cant recall them being that far off on any prospect
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Just giving my thoughts, I dont always go by what the pundits think.
 
I don't have a problem with Hackenberg. My problem is Hackenberg at 22.

I'd much rather have Elliot or the Arkansas TE. Hackenberg will be there at 44 or wherever. Probably even 68 or so.

Taking him with 22 would be a classic blunder.
 
bah007 said:
I don't even see Cook as draftable really, at least not as a potential starter. Obviously, I realize that he will be drafted with that idea in mind, but I don't think that he should be. I see him as a low end starter or a talented backup.
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7 days ago you listed him as the classes 5th best QB and a 3rd round talent in your own personal draft rankings.
 
Blake said:
7 days ago you listed him as the classes 5th best QB and a 3rd round talent in your own personal draft rankings.
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This is a weak QB class and he is an extremely pro ready backup QB. I think that's what most teams would expect to get in the 3rd round at that position.

I don't know of too many stud starting QBs that have come out of the 3rd round recently. Except Russell Wilson, who if y'all remember, I went on record as saying was a 1st round talent.
 
Shishkabob said:
I still stand by my opinion that Coker wont be anywhere near a 1st round pick. Pretty much every pundit doesnt even have him in their top 200, and i know they dont represent the teams, but i cant recall them being that far off on any prospect
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I agree. Coker is similar to Cardale Jones. There are draftniks who love both but when it comes to the teams...the resume just isn't there to support a 1st round pick. Not enough experience. He has potential, but I would be shocked if a team pulled the trigger on him in the first 2 rounds.
 
infantrycak said:
Would this guy be getting any play around here but for the OB connection?
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I suspect maybe a quarter as much simply due to his physical attributes. But familiarity with OBs system could make him valuable if Hoyer is gone since he and Savage are the only primary QBs along with the specialist/gimmick QB/WR. I could actually see us going with two QBs in the draft with the better long term prospect drafted ahead of Hack.
 
Looking at the faith people have in BOB around here you would have thought the Texans went 2-14 last yr and 6-10 the yr before.
 
infantrycak said:
Some of us can see beyond the record.
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Some of us can see he's done this without a deep roster and no QB. This is a rebuilding project that's in yr 2 regardless of what the McNair's are selling. I'm willing to give BOB a couple of more yrs and see where the offense is, if it's as bad as it is now then I will be on board with letting BOB go.
 
steelbtexan said:
Some of us can see he's done this without a deep roster and no QB. This is a rebuilding project that's in yr 2 regardless of what the McNair's are selling. I'm willing to give BOB a couple of more yrs and see where the offense is, if it's as bad as it is now then I will be on board with letting BOB go.
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Prolonging the agony, setting the Texans back 5 years.
 
Texian said:
Imagine if you will, if Kubiak had stayed and drafted Blake Bortles.
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They would've been 10-6 after a 6-10 season. Kubiak is an avg HC. Proven over 8 yrs and the same people who believe in Kubiak wont give BOB 3 yrs to get HIS team in place. Double standard much?
 
Texian said:
Prolonging the agony, setting the Texans back 5 years.
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Unless you believe there's a chance that BOB can improve as a HC. Remember when Kubiak 1st started out, fans here would say he's a young coach who's learning on the job excuses. I'm not BOB's biggest supporter but I'm just pointing out the double standards that exist here.
 
powda said:
Are suggesting kubiak would've "learned him up" on how to throw a pick 6 more often?
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No, what I was suggesting and illustrating is 3 bonehead moves by Bob McNair.
1. He fired Kubiak after having a temper tantrum because Kubiak pulled Case Keenum after Keenum had become ineffective.
2. McNair was convinced that Keenum was the Texans QB of the future. He made Wade the Interim HC and declared Keenum the starter.
3. Why McNair made the decision to draft Clowney and not draft a QB until RD 4.

(3) Bonehead McNair decisions.
 
steelbtexan said:
Unless you believe there's a chance that BOB can improve as a HC. Remember when Kubiak 1st started out, fans here would say he's a young coach who's learning on the job excuses. I'm not BOB's biggest supporter but I'm just pointing out the double standards that exist here.
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I don't know about double standards. Kubiak wouldn't watch PAT attempts, O'Brien brings in Hoyer to replace Fitzpatrick.
 
steelbtexan said:
Some of us can see he's done this without a deep roster and no QB. This is a rebuilding project that's in yr 2 regardless of what the McNair's are selling. I'm willing to give BOB a couple of more yrs and see where the offense is, if it's as bad as it is now then I will be on board with letting BOB go.
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Lack of depth on roster = not his fault

No QB = his fault

I refuse to give him a pass for thinking Hoyer/Mallett could get it done.
 
I started writing a long write up, but decided to peel back and let it go.

The wheels are falling off this squad though. We are fools gold. We backed into a division title in the worst division in the NFL.

We need to hit on this draft with every single pick and just browsing over our past draft picks I'm gonna go ahead and pessimistically assume we don't do it here either.

BoB deserves blame as a HC. No double standards here. I'm sure many of us hated Kubiak too and could see the writing on the wall there as well (not 2-14 by any means though).

If and when Hackenberg is the pick, and if and when we fail to eclipse 6 wins I will be completely on board the fire BoB train. Until then, I don't think it's right to let him go, but the writing is on the wall for me that we aren't building these walls up as much as our organization tries to tell me we are, we are only building them laterally and they appear to be crumbling at the bottom.
 
dream_team said:
Hitting on EVERY draft pick has never been done, by any team, ever! So yes, be prepared to be disappointed.
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You're trolling me here, but I think you get the point and are just trolling to troll.

I'll clarify though bro troll...

We have no depth on this team. GM is obviously the biggest issue here, but since I do believe that BoB has a lot of influence on these picks he is definitely at blame to for lack of depth on this team as well. We need to hit on our picks in this draft....

.... with at least 3-4 hits, but just browsing over our past draft picks I'm gonna go ahead and pessimistically assume we don't do it here either.

And just surviving on this team while being mostly pedestrian on the football field isn't hitting on the pick for me bro troll.
 
steelbtexan said:
So you like the TE/RB's?

Tell me who are the backup SS/ILB's

Dont look it up do it off the top of your head.
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Yes, we have a good group of RBs (which I'm including Foster). The fact that we were able to muster some type of running game, even after our all-world RB goes down, shows how well our depth is at that position. I like out depth at TE, but I do NOT like our starter(s). Yah, I understand if you think that makes no sense what so ever.

In regards to naming backups... come on man, I can easily name the whole 53. Just like I bet you can do the same. I do like Pleasant, I thought he did a great job at helping cover TEs. I do like Bullough & Dent as backups. Tuggle has good experience inside as well.

JMO, and I know everyone doesn't agree, but I'm ok with the depth of this team, except at OL.
 
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