Casserly trade talk

[royce1054]

Arizona will take either a QB or a RB

I think the trade for henry will go though but it will be a draft day trade. They will hold out to see if they can get more. Buffalo want to swap 2nd round picks. If Benson is the only RB not taken like i think wont draft him and will go defense. Can anyone name their CB. If Rolle is there i cant see them passing on him unless Rodgers or Cadillac or brown is there

 

[outofhnd]

Yea if the henry Deal goes through they won't go RB. Rolle would be a Nice pick if he isnt already gone.

Rolle has apparantly moved up and is projected to be the 1st defensive player off the board, unseating DJ, Rolle is a possibility in Cleveland where i think they draft Frye in Round 2 to solve their QB needs.

Frye reminds me a little of Tom Brady with a lil bit more of a gunslinger mentality.

I think Arizona grabs Erasmus or they grab DJ

 

[royce1054]

Yea if the henry Deal goes through they won't go RB. Rolle would be a Nice pick if he isnt already gone.

Rolle has apparantly moved up and is projected to be the 1st defensive player off the board, unseating DJ, Rolle is a possibility in Cleveland where i think they draft Frye in Round 2 to solve their QB needs.

Frye reminds me a little of Tom Brady with a lil bit more of a gunslinger mentality.

I think Arizona grabs Erasmus or they grab DJ

I used 2 think Rolle would go to Cleveland but i think Crennel playing the 3-4 will go LB or DE... They think just like we do. I think if henry deal goes through and Rolle is off the board they will go Barron replace SHelton who they lost.

 

[beerlover]

just my opinion but I think the Browns will trade down, maybe to the Vikings who want to trade up for Mike Williams, then look for Crennel to go defense. along with former Texans defensive line coach now Brown defensive coordinator Todd Grantham they convert to the 3-4 scheme and take a OLB. this will really depend on how they rate this class which really has some good prospects including Merriman & Pollack. they could take Merriman here if he really blows them away in private workouts or if they are more impressed with Pollack they could trade down again, say the Texans for example & take Pollack @ #13 which I think is about right for him.

in the process the Browns pick up an extra 1st (Vikings #18) & 2nd (Texans #47). I'm fairly sure the Vikings would make this move, however I'm not sure what the Texans would do, if both Cedric or Derrick were available they might but I'm starting to believe we'll be fat & happy staying @ #13 and taking David Pollack themselves

 

[royce1054]

we need depth at CB, OL, DL, S, RB, TE, WR, LB.... Why do we trade up..
There is good depth at CB, DL, S, RB, WR, and LB
I think we trade down.. get OLB in 1st round
2nd round go WR
if we get 2 picks we go CB
3rd round CB, OL
if we get a 3rd or 4th 3rd round pick we go DL, RB
This is how i am thinking right now
We fill our 2 openings in 1st 2 rounds then draft depth

 

[UberDork]

we need depth at CB, OL, DL, S, RB, TE, WR, LB.... Why do we trade up..
There is good depth at CB, DL, S, RB, WR, and LB
I think we trade down.. get OLB in 1st round
2nd round go WR
if we get 2 picks we go CB
3rd round CB, OL
if we get a 3rd or 4th 3rd round pick we go DL, RB
This is how i am thinking right now
We fill our 2 openings in 1st 2 rounds then draft depth

I am just not sold on trying to fill all our depth needs in one draft. If we do go the route of filling depth needs, then that seems to imply we will have to make a couple reaches. A couple of reaches piled on top of a few guys simply not working out, and we could end up in a position where we get no big-time playmakers, only a few serviceable backups and maybe one or two starters. I probably sound like I am set on moving up for DJ, but really I am trying to emphasize getting playmakers and another few guys of quality depth in later rounds. Not just getting depth. Sorry royce1054, maybe you are implying that we will go BPA on the positions we need, and I would pretty much be fine with that as long as we don't pass on a great opportunity to get a stud that may not be a real need depthwise.

 

[Lucky]

...I can't say what is wrong with him other than the fact that the guy is 6-7, 320, runs the 40 in the 4.8-4.9s, has a 38 inch vert and a 4.62 short shuttle and is not considered an out of this world LT prospect. With those numbers, it seems something is not right for him to not be considered a superelite LT...

A LT doesn't run 40 yards, leap in the air, or run around cones during the course of a football game. What a LT does is block the guy in front of him, usually the opposition's best pass rusher. That's the criteria that should be used in judging Alex Barron or any LT prospect.

...I think most of the talk regarding this centers around the fact that he wasn't anything more than good in college, he wasn't a dominator despite being blessed with great athletic skills...

Well the writers who cover college football and vote for the AP All-American team selected Barron 1st team in both his junior & senior seasons. Florida State passed the football 401 times in '04. Alex allowed only 1 sack. Zero to Shawne Merriman, zero to Daryl Blackstock. Just not sure what the non-dominator talk is about. As far as the Huddle report's comments are concerned, you're not going to see offensive linemen run 40 yards very often. For something like that to be a "red flag' is absurd.

If teammate Alex Barron had Willis' heart, he might be the first pick in the draft.

Again, what does that mean? When did Barron show a lack of heart? Did he not play with an injury? Did he quit during a game? What?

He is still raw.

I think he hasnt played enough LT to be a star LT prospect.

Barron started at quick tackle for 2 1/2 seasons at Florida State. He played in the ACC with an out of conference schedule that included Miami & Florida every season. Barron is well tested, not raw.

All I see are opinions that aren't backed by specific examples. Raw, soft, lazy...where's the evidence on Barron that these descriptions are true? The Texans have the 13th pick in a mediocre draft. If they can pull a good LT, that's hardly a bad pick.

 

[UberDork]

Lucky,

The point I was trying to make is that he has no hinderances athletically. Athletisism is not the reason he is not rated in the top 5. If that is not the reason, there must be some other reason. I am not making any guess as to what that is, except that it is probably not a good thing. He could still be a good player for us, and I won't be mad if we get him. Just that with his athletic gifts and experience, seems he should be a top 5 pick, but he aint.

 

[UberDork]

Here is a link to a seminoles discussion on Barron. It has a few informative tidbits of info on Barron.

LINK

 

[Sarg01]

we need depth at CB, OL, DL, S, RB, TE, WR, LB.... Why do we trade up..

I disagree. We need depth at CB, DL, S and RB. We need STARTERS at OL, TE, WR and LB. Obviously all these needs can't be filled in one draft - unless you really think all our draft picks will make the team.

 

[TexansTrueFan]

First off, let me say I have not seen Barron play. I can't say what is wrong with him other than the fact that the guy is 6-7, 320, runs the 40 in the 4.8-4.9s, has a 38 inch vert and a 4.62 short shuttle and is not considered an out of this world LT prospect. With those numbers, it seems something is not right for him to not be considered a superelite LT. He has the athletisism; he lacks something else. I don't know what that is, but the guy is not rated where his athletisism should place him.

well sometimes those stats on a player can be misleading, i'm sure their are reasons he is such a praised prospect. Maybe people see something that numbers cant tell us.

 

[michaelm]

well sometimes those stats on a player can be misleading, i'm sure their are reasons he is such a praised prospect. Maybe people see something that numbers cant tell us.

the point is that he IS NOT the praised prospect that his numbers say that he should be. So if his numbers say he should be an elite prospect, but he isn't, then what is wrong with him otherwise?
some seem to think it's desire, or really, lack of desire,,,

 

[UberDork]

well sometimes those stats on a player can be misleading, i'm sure their are reasons he is such a praised prospect. Maybe people see something that numbers cant tell us.

I agree people see something that numbers can't tell us...and what they see is something keeping him from being a consensus top 5 pick...That is all I am saying. If we got him, it would be a good value. I am just saying he is lacking something other than athletisism to probably keep him out of the top 5. Heck it could be coaching...one guy on that Seminoles MB said they fired their OL coach this year...but whatever it is, he is not a consensus top 5 guy like his number would most deffinately allow.

 

[royce1054]

I disagree. We need depth at CB, DL, S and RB. We need STARTERS at OL, TE, WR and LB. Obviously all these needs can't be filled in one draft - unless you really think all our draft picks will make the team.

Well we trade down with a team in the 20's. We get either 1st and 2nd or 1st and a 3rd.
1st OLB/WR
2nd WR/OLB one not taken
the pick we get from the other team if we do get a 2nd would be a CB to replace Glenn.
2 3rd's if we dont get the 2nd 2 round pick we go CB, OL and then we will get atleast 1 xtra is pick here we go DL. this is what i am thinking we can fille these positions at depeth.
OL i think we are good for now. TE i still Miller has inside track on that spot. I think we go depth in 3rd for OL. TE maybe 5th or 6th round. doubt he will make team. Just sayin we might take one.

 

[Ranger]

I think this is going to be one of those drafts where Casserely shocks everybody. I have seen so many projections, so many mocks, so many rumors about our pick and what we could possibily do, I don't think Casserely knows just quite yet.

I think right now we are leaning toward a couple of things:

1) From what I have been hearing though "various" sources is that the coaches on seriously considering moving Wong to ILB (which is real big news) or at least give him his chance to play alongside Greenwood. Now that leaves a hole at Wong's position. We can either draft a guy to fill that position or go with Peek, or even use a rotation of Babin, Peek, whoever we draft, and some other back-ups like Anderson. If we stay at #13 then Dan Cody could be our guy. Moving down into the 20's we could find Demarcus Ware or David Pollack. I think Ware is a very interesting player, his stock has risen and seems to be a heck of a player. I have seen one mock draft where they say is stock is rising so much we will take him at #13, which is hard to beleive.

2) Texans scouts have been impressed with Troy Williamson's speed, and would be a great fit at the #2 position. I don't know if he would make it past San Diego though. I wouldn't like picking a WR in the first round though, I think there is more pressing needs on defense. Besides I still see talent in the later rounds at WR.

3) Every day I am getting more convinced that trading down is the best way to go. We can get more picks in the later rounds or the future. Guys we want will still be around and while all the Green Bays and Phildelphias and Minnesotas look to move up, we can move down, get what we want, and there draft picks and have a great quite draft, and look to build for the future.

If I was Casserly: Trade down into the 20's, get Demarcus Ware and pick up extra picks in 2nd or 3rd.

 

[outofhnd]

Like i said i thought it was interesting what i saw about scouting gallery and the fact his team ran the ball which would show a LT dominating Defensive linemen on a consistent basis.

Barron playing in the pass happy scheme at FSU just shows him keeping defensive linemen at bay at moving backwards.

Now the question I have is, If Florida State was big time rushing team instead of an air attack, would Barron be at the top of the draft?

Barron had better combine numbers than gallery. maybe the "lack of heart" is the fact all you see is barran going back into pass block mode and not mauling D lineman on a consistent basis because they are running the football.

Personally I have no idea at this point, heck the 49ers still don't know what they are doing. It will depend on how draft day plays out.

 

[royce1054]

I have had a person on another site tell me i change my mind to much.

1. At first i wanted Spears. Then we resigned Payne. So that made that idea not make much since.

2.Then i wanted Carlos Rodgers. The next day we signed Sanders. I was like are the Texans messing with my predictions

3.Then i wanted Barron. About 2-3 weeks later they came out and said its Seth Wand's position and they had no interest in Barron.

4.Then i was like ok lets get Williamson and get our #2 WR. i argued for him for over a month. I still like him but then i started hearing about the Texans trading.

5. So then i was like lets trade Sharper and #2 and move up into late 1st round... we let Sharper go...

6. Now i think trading down is the best way to go. We can get OLB or WR in the late 1st round and then pick up a 2nd or a 3rd. That will help up add much needed depth.

 

[wags]

3.Then i wanted Barron. About 2-3 weeks later they came out and said its Seth Wand's position and they had no interest in Barron.

When did the Texans say they had "no interest" in Barron.

 

[royce1054]

When did the Texans say they had "no interest" in Barron.

Well when they said Wand is the starter that means there is no point in drafting a guy pay him more money than your starter. Thats simple math to me.

 

[D-ReK]

Well when they said Wand is the starter that means there is no point in drafting a guy pay him more money than your starter. Thats simple math to me.

You do know Casserly might as well be considered the originator of "smoke and mirrors" tactics, right? He's been known to say one thing and mean another...Case in point, at the end of the season CC said we'd have a quiet offseason, and we have had quite the opposite...

 

[royce1054]

You do know Casserly might as well be considered the originator of "smoke and mirrors" tactics, right? He's been known to say one thing and mean another...Case in point, at the end of the season CC said we'd have a quiet offseason, and we have had quite the opposite...

i think we were very quiet inthe offseason. We signed only 3 people from other teams... He was right we were quiet. The vikings were the opposite of quiet.

 

[beerlover]

I trolled to find his (Casserly's) exact quote but basicly I seem to remember that the Texans did not plan to sign any of the big name free agents....then the Pace fiasco I vividly remember the boss saying that they must find a way to protect David and that would be their #1 priority.

So a tackle or a guard in the 1st two rounds money in the bank. who or where I really could'nt tell ya, but by now they know the who, its just a matter of where/when to select him.

The two first round grades I would think for the Texans would be David Baas, Michigan (no surprise there) & Khalif Barnes, Washington. Baas can play Center or either Guard position. Barnes would be excellent in our zone blocking scheme and can play both Guard & Tackle. me thinks they should both be high up on Casserlys list.....

so if the Texans stay @ #13 & take the best playmaker available defense or offense, they will need to trade up to get Baas or Barnes. similar to last year that produced two rookie starters BABS & DROB

 

[royce1054]

i dont remember him sayin it was his #1 priority i do think it is a priority but not #1. We could trade down to the end of the 1st round and get Baas. I think he will go around the Philly pick. Who seems to want to move up and get a WR. I still think OLB, WR, CB then OL but that my opinion.

 

[D-ReK]

He said our main goals this offseason were to improve our pass rush and our pass protection...Funny how 3 people can hear 3 different things...

 

[royce1054]

He said our main goals this offseason were to improve our pass rush and our pass protection...Funny how 3 people can hear 3 different things...

i heard that too but that doesnt mean its #1. I was saying lets trade down get an OLB thats a pass rusher and can cover the back. We need a natural LB. I dont think any of the ends can cover the backs. I think we fill the WR position next then a CB to replace Glenn. Than OL to add depth. Then a DL. That seems like a good route to me. I would be happy with a Ware, Balckstock or burnett in the 1st round for the pass rusher. Well you know there is deep talent at the CB position. Maybe they might go OL in a pick they can get off a trade and select a OL in the 2nd round. Then go CB. I am just specualting using my opinion.

 

[wags]

I vividly remember the boss saying that they must find a way to protect David and that would be their #1 priority.

Right. The owner, Bob McNair, said our number 1 priority is to protect David Carr.

 

[royce1054]

Right. The owner, Bob McNair, said our number 1 priority is to protect David Carr.

doesnt ever owner say that.. If they have decided to with wand then we can get an OL in late 2nd or early 3rd. If not we have to go Barron. I heard we werent interested in Barron though

 

[keyfro]

well what is garenteed in this draft...we'll draft a few o-lineman hopefully, a receiver, a linebacker, and atleast one d-lineman

 

[nunusguy]

Right. The owner, Bob McNair, said our number 1 priority is to protect David Carr.

I'm another one who remembers McNair specifically making those remarks
regarding DC. Fact is I remember the circumstances in which they were made - Channel 13/Bob Allen were having their regular post game show after the final game with the Browns and McNair appeared on that show.

 

[aj.]

Well when they said Wand is the starter that means there is no point in drafting a guy pay him more money than your starter. Thats simple math to me.

Wand will be a restricted free agent after this season. If he's not in their long term plans they better damm sure be making some contingency plans (like drafting another LT).

I have a feeling the Texans like Khalif Barnes more than Barron.

 

[Blake]

Is Barnes a second round pick? Or do you think he is most likely gone in the 1st?

Im guessing the only way to get him is to trade down somehow.

I would hate to pay #13 for him.

 

[aj.]

Low first from everything I've read. That would be something to look for in a first round trade down scenario. Apparently Steve Marshall was pretty impressed with the guy at his Pro Day at UW.

 

[Vinny]

I have a feeling the Texans like Khalif Barnes more than Barron.

I think you may be right. If we trade back I would not be surprised if Barnes was one of the possible targets.

 

[Blake]

Low first from everything I've read. That would be something to look for in a first round trade down scenario. Apparently Steve Marshall was pretty impressed with the guy at his Pro Day at UW.

Say we do grab Barnes or Barron. Are they immediate legit LT starters? Like battle for the spot? Or do we expect them to sit a year?

 

[keyfro]

i think we let them battle it out with wand during training camp and here's the important part unless the starter is injuried you do no constantly sub them in and out...let one figure everything out on his own the hard way

 

[Blake]

i think we let them battle it out with wand during training camp and here's the important part unless the starter is injuried you do no constantly sub them in and out...let one figure everything out on his own the hard way

I would hate to be your QB. Wouldnt that mean Carr gets his helmet handed to him more?

 

[royce1054]

Barnes will go to the Rams if he is there which i am sure he will unless a team trades up for him. What about the Rams trading up for Barron. That could work
#19 = 875
#70 = 240
#111 = 72
1187

Hey that sounds pretty nice to me

#19 Blackstock or Ware
#47 Gibson or Brown
#70 CB
#73 OL
#78 DL
#108 RB
#111 S
we can fill so much depth here
what do u think

 

[outofhnd]

Its a possibility.

But this is what dawned on me last night.

Perhaps the Pace deal was not soo much to sign Pace as much as it was a Draft tactic to make people assume we want to take Barron.

Teams that are in dire need of O line, may want to negotiate with us for our 13th spot where Barron is expected to go. Up or Down not real sure, but it makes sense to make people believe you are taking him and the people that need him will have to assume we take him at 13 and either move up and get him or trade with us. So if someone does trade up for barron it increases the chances of a top tier player sliding down to us.

 

[royce1054]

Its a possibility.

But this is what dawned on me last night.

Perhaps the Pace deal was not soo much to sign Pace as much as it was a Draft tactic to make people assume we want to take Barron.

Teams that are in dire need of O line, may want to negotiate with us for our 13th spot where Barron is expected to go. Up or Down not real sure, but it makes sense to make people believe you are taking him and the people that need him will have to assume we take him at 13 and either move up and get him or trade with us. So if someone does trade up for barron it increases the chances of a top tier player sliding down to us.

well to be honest if we wanted him we would of gotten him right. Might cost us 2 1st rounders but thats good protection. I agree that this might be a ploy. A couple of weeks ago i had a 2 hour long conversation with a guy and we were arguing that very fact. He think Barron was our only option. He thinks if we dont go Barron in the 1st that Casserly is wrong. He based his facts on the fact that if we wanted Pace that means we want another OT. I didnt believe that all. I think you go after Pace wheither you need him or not, he is the best. I dont think that Barron would do much better than wand though. We can get a perfectly good OL-man to back him up in the 3rd round.

 

[beerlover]

Texans trade the 13th pick to the NY Giants for their 2nd (43rd) this year 05, and their 1st next year in 06.

with the 13th pick the Giants select Alex Barron LT

the Texans would now have two #2's & two #3's this year & two 1st's next year 06

 

[Xman]

I wouldn't mind trading to get the Giant's #1 next year - it could be high again. But, I doubt they deal it to get an OT (even though they could use OT) because the PR hit would be insane if they ended up in the top 5 picks.

 

[D-ReK]

If we can get a 1st rounder next year, I say do it...Depending on what underclassmen come out, next year's draft might end up being very special...

 

[royce1054]

next years talent i think is better than this years

 

[beerlover]

next years talent i think is better than this years

you think?

doing trades should benifit both teams, this is a win/win situation. The Giants need to trade up to get Barron, if Barron last's till #13 the Giants & Texans might be on the phone to one another. Tom Coughlin understands the importance of a dominant LT (Tony Boselli) with a true franchise QB in Eli Manning this must be the Giants top need/priority.

the Giants don't have a 1st round pick (traded to San Diego to get Manning) & Alex Barron the premier LT will be gone possibly in the top 10 picks, if he does slide to #13 this would be the opportunity the Texans are looking for, especially with Carolina sitting, waiting with the 14th pick.

it sucks not to have a 1st round pick, but a high second #43 would land a possible impact player (David Baas, Shaun Cody, Matt Roth, Anttaj Hawthorne, Darryl Blackstock, Fabian Washington) & the Texans pick again @ #47.

having two #1's next year, regardless where they fall should finally provide the talent the Texans need to become a serious playoff contender (remember the 5 year plan). while 05 should be improved (.500%) this draft will go along ways to building a solid foundation needed to become an elite NFL team.

 

[TheOgre]

Come on Seattle is the only playoff team in the division. By far the weakest division. I have seen Smith on alot of mocks but some of my sources are saying that they will go defense to complement the WR's, FA QB they signed, and the possible trade of Travis henry. My question is why not Barron to replace Shelton if that happens?

I think Leonard Davis was the starting LT this past season. Shelton was moved to RT.

 

[Corrosion]

Texans trade the 13th pick to the NY Giants for their 2nd (43rd) this year 05, and their 1st next year in 06.

with the 13th pick the Giants select Alex Barron LT

the Texans would now have two #2's & two #3's this year & two 1st's next year 06

I like the idea of this trade down posibility BUT i fear Barron will be gone long before 13 considering that a couple teams really hurt for help on the O-line . The first that comes to mind is the Bears :

The Bears were dead last in several categories on the offensive side of the ball including Points Per Game @ 14.4 , Total Offense @ 238.G ypg (101.5 rushing ) Passing Yardage @ 137 ypg Sacks Allowed with 66 and Sack Yardage with 449 negative yards . Though they may well take one of the top rated recievers its highly possible they take Barron . (or one of the top recievers).

The Titanic's have a ton of holes to fill CB being the most glaring of those but are also in need of WR and O-line . Wouldnt surprise me one bit if they chose Barron .


The Cowboy's and Cardinals are both teams that i could see taking him as well . Most of these teams have been linked to other players / positions thus far in most mock drafts but looking @ their rosters / stats from last season it would seem much more likely that this is where their needs are.

 

[canadiantexan]

I could see him (Barron) going to the cowboys or cardinals but not the bears they need playmakers on the offense and would love to give Grossman another target, maybe Edwards to go along with mushin. The Bears would also be better off drafting RB or CB

 

[Corrosion]

I could see him (Barron) going to the cowboys or cardinals but not the bears they need playmakers on the offense and would love to give Grossman another target, maybe Edwards to go along with mushin. The Bears would also be better off drafting RB or CB

The Bears do need another playmaker on offense but if they have no one to block for them it wouldnt matter if they had Joe Montana , Eric Dickerson and Michael Irvin in the backfield .

The stat that sticks out most to me is the 66 sacks allowed last season .(real close to the record number 72 given up by the EXPANSION Texans) . Their running game was not nearly as bad as the passing game averaging 101 ypg and 3.8 ypc for the season . The passing game was absolutely pathetic totaling 137 ypg 9 TD's 16 INT's and again 66 sacks for a total loss of 449 yards .

Their D was pretty decent leading the NFL in 3rd down percentage gave up only 208 yards a game and 20.7 points per game . Which leads me to believe that they will look first to improve their offense . They may well take one of the top three recievers but there is just as much a possibility of them taking Barron .

San Francisco , Miami and the NY Giants each gave up 52 sacks last season and were tied with the second most allowed . their cumlative record was 12 - 36 Proof positive that if you cant get it done up front you will not win in the NFL

 

[beerlover]

CORROSION- all good points that validate the #1 talent in the 2005 draft at LT & why teams will be willing to deal once he has fallen to a point where he could be aquired, without giving up substantial costs

#13 is a

 

[Corrosion]

#13 is a

Agree'd , If by chance he falls that far the Texans will be dealing from a position of strength considering that Carolina with the 14th pick would most definately take Barron . I just dont see him falling that far , there are at least 4 teams that could take him earlier . (Bears , Titans , Lions , Cowboys).

At this point im not sure which way CC is looking to move , i suppose it will come down to who falls to a position that they feel comfortable trading up to and what the cost to do so , or who is left @ 13 that is a hot comodity that teams are willing to trade up for .

The Texans have several holes to fill such as LB (both inside and out could use depth) . The WR position needs a look although Armstrong or Starling may have a breakout season the position lacks depth . The O-line could definately stand an upgrade (@ more than one position) . They have lacked a complete TE since day one of their first season and unless Joppru comes back healthy and ready to play this season they will need help here. RB and CB are less of a concern to me since they have more than servicable players here (starters anyway) but both positions could use some depth .

Looking at the offseason moves thay have made so far with the release of Sharper and Foreman being cut leads me to believe thay have a special player in mind to fill that void , Sharper may not have been spectacular but he was a solid player and will be sorely missed .