Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Vinny said:
Wow when do we hand the pink slips out. Nice post V.
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Wow when do we hand the pink slips out. Nice post V.
chuckm
Veteran
Marcus said:I'm going to remember this post . . . for future reference.
The Reggie Bush debate is just a football issue.
But this Vince Young thing has gone political.
only political? I'm buying a Longhorn flag to hang outside my house after the draft in case the Texans pass on Young .... so that orange-clad, marauding mob passes right on by ....
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Hulk75 said:
For you to question someone else's knowledge only when they have a different opinion than yours really reflects badly on your own intelligence. That BS is also prohibited on these boards. Not knowing how to use punctuation or which words to capitalize isn't real smart either.
I don't care if they can run block or pass block...They knew they needed help after the first season and it hasn't gotten better 3 years later....Or has it and the QB just doesn't check off on other recevers, stays in the pocket too long and has a team that generally doesn't follow him?
If the problem really is the line, then they've had plenty of time to fix it. If it's the QB, then it's time to fix it now.
One of the things that stood out on that interview was that it seemed as if they were talking in the past tense as far as the defensive coordinator position is concerned. Seems as if we've seen the end of Vic Fangio and the zone-blitz.
Also, Antwan Peek seemed to welcome the thought of being a defensive end in a 4-3.
Also, Antwan Peek seemed to welcome the thought of being a defensive end in a 4-3.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
coreyvice said:
Could not agree more. It isn't like someone is here saying pick a TE #1. People have opinions and like certain players. Getting personal is just a no-no.
Hervoyel said:
I''ve got to agree. It is about one game. That RoseBowl game that Wednesday night. If it weren't for that one game, no one would be talking about drafting Vince this year. That game changed a lot, it did for me anyway. I've been a VinceYoung fan since last years Rose Bowl, and I followed him, and was amazed by him all year. But it was that one game, that put away any notion, that the kid would be going back to school next year. After watching that game, I knew without a doubt, that he would declare for the draft. I knew it, and everyone who saw the game new it. The kid is ready.
Now, this is totally different from the Reggie Bush thing. All year long, people have been talking about Regie and the Race for Reggie, and all year long, I've been saying we don't need Reggie. We've got RBs coming out of our rears. re-sign wells, and don't look back. Look at that one game, were Reggie faced the toughest defense of his college carreer, where he faced a pseudo NFL Defense....... Reggie Bush's only contribution to how that game turned out, was a goofball play he never wished happened. If he's coming to the Texans, he's going to have games like that week in, and week out. Even if we get two studs on the offensiveline, I've never seen a rookie dominate on the OL. So, nothings going to really change for us.
But Vince..... One player at QB, can make the difference. Can turn a team around....... you don't need any studs on the line with Vince. With Vince, even the four man rush is going to ease up a little, because they'll be thinking contain. Yeah, send a corner to blitz..... Vince will throw a 25 yard strike with the guy hanging from his waist....... kinda like he did in that one game.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
NO, he's just angering you UT fans who can't see anything through those orange colored glasses you wear. Now I'm sure that since the big bad mod is a UT fan/VY fan, that this post gets deleted, whatever. If that's the kind of Nazi board you want to run that's your business.Vinny said:
WAY TO GO CASSERLY!!!!
BUSH MAKES THIS TEAM BETTER NOW!!! YOUNG IS ANOTHER 2-3 YEARS OF LOSING, WAITING FOR HIM TO DEVELOP. YOU THINK YOUNG IS THIS GREAT PASSER WHO CAN BUST OUT A RUN? SEE MICHAEL VICK. HE LED THE NCAA IN PASSER RATING IN '99. ALSO SEE DAVID CARR, 2nd LEADING RUSHING QB IN THE NFL. WE ALREADY HAVE A RUNNING QB WHO CAN THROW. WITH A COACHING STAFF IN HERE THAT ACTUALLY COACHES AND WEAPONS AROUND HIM (AJ, BUSH, WHAT IF MATHIS DEVELOPS, DD/MORENCY, DRAFT A GOOD TE WHO CAN BLOCK AND CATCH UP THE SEAM, USE REST OF DRAFT OR FA ON SOME LINEMEN) CARR WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY UP TO HIS POTENTIAL THAT THE LAST COACHING STAFF PREVENTED HIM FROM DOING, IMO, AND THIS OFFENSE IS POTENT NOW!!! NOT 2-3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN VINCE DEVELOPS INTO AN NFL QB, IF HE EVER DOES.
AND WHEN YOUNG IS STRUGGLING HIS FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS, YOU UT FANS WON'T BE IN THE STADIUM EITHER. WINNING PUTS PEOPLE IN THE SEATS!!! PERIOD!!!!
Now go ahead and delete my post since it doesn't fall in line with the UT way of thinking since this has become a UT Texans board even though it still says HOUSTON Texans at the top of the page.
TheOgre
All Pro
Another great Casserly choice:
Carolina strong safety Marlon McCree continues to have a terrific season. The journeyman safety, who moved into the starting lineup two games into the year, replacing first-round draft choice Thomas Davis, had six tackles, two interceptions and two passes defensed on Sunday. Not bad for a guy making the minimum base salary.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=morning18
Carolina strong safety Marlon McCree continues to have a terrific season. The journeyman safety, who moved into the starting lineup two games into the year, replacing first-round draft choice Thomas Davis, had six tackles, two interceptions and two passes defensed on Sunday. Not bad for a guy making the minimum base salary.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=morning18
GoBlue
Noob
I'm not making excuses for all the mistakes made by Capers & Co, but we should keep in mind that this team started with NOTHING 4 yrs ago. We've picked up many quality players in the draft over the last 4 yrs and with a real coaching staff could still be on track for the playoffs next year.
I think it's clear to most people, after their rose bowl buzz has worn off, that we can't honestly evaluate Carr until he is under a new coahing staff. Which means no trading him, no VY, and no more hysteria. Either draft an impact player (other than QB) at #1 or trade down and stock pile 5 picks in the first 3 rounds- (5 of the first 70 or so picks, which should be a ton of talent even allowing for a bust or two which happens to all teams)
As an aside, I think CC is more matter-of-fact than smug. He only irritates me when he avoids answering simple questions. Besides he's the best evaluator of 4th round talent ANYWHERE- DD (1,000 yd rusher), Mathis (ProBowler), Glenn Earl (starter), Jonathan Wells (quality RB).
I think it's clear to most people, after their rose bowl buzz has worn off, that we can't honestly evaluate Carr until he is under a new coahing staff. Which means no trading him, no VY, and no more hysteria. Either draft an impact player (other than QB) at #1 or trade down and stock pile 5 picks in the first 3 rounds- (5 of the first 70 or so picks, which should be a ton of talent even allowing for a bust or two which happens to all teams)
As an aside, I think CC is more matter-of-fact than smug. He only irritates me when he avoids answering simple questions. Besides he's the best evaluator of 4th round talent ANYWHERE- DD (1,000 yd rusher), Mathis (ProBowler), Glenn Earl (starter), Jonathan Wells (quality RB).
Htown34s
Waterboy
chuckm said:
You lose credibility when you say that the Longhorns are the only ones pushing for Vince.
**NEWSFLA******** Channel 13 did a poll and 79% of Houstonians they polled wanted Vince. I guess all of the graduates of UT have only moved to Houston.
I'm a Longhorn fan, but I am not fond of Simms or Benson, and Roy Williams seems to be slacking just like he did at UT. Get it out of your head that only homers like VY.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Vinny said:
Wow, you really feel strongly about this issue and about this player. Hey, I understand that and I can tell it's genuine. I'm going to reply but it's just talk and I'm just putting my case out there. The more points of view the better if you get my drift.
Yes, there's no denying that we had the worst offense and defense in football last year and I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. We did see that Antwaan Peek wasn't all he was cracked up to be and our edge rusher is still non-existent. I'm going to lay Babin on the coaches though since the only thing I've ever heard about where that decision came from was that Capers and Fangio wanted him. I'm not saying that's the truth, just that it's all I have to go on. Now following last season you were talking about how Babin had a pretty fair rookie season and how "tweeners" took time to develop. Now this year the reports are that he was injured so I can't completely come down on him for his lack of development this season.
Our cornerback is a good one but it sure would be nice if we had a pair of them. The Buchanon deal is a case where even I cannot say that Casserly did a good job, or even an adequat job. That one is a mystery to me.
On offense though I have to take issue with the "worst line in the NFL" statement, I'm not saying they aren't the worst line in the NFL of course. I'm saying that if they are then don't you have to allow for that when you note that our QB has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts? I'm assuming you're not calling them the worst line in the NFL because of their run blocking right? Domanick Davis gets his thousand yards a year for the most part and both Wells and Morency can run behind this line. It's got to be the pass protection that you are talking about and if that's true then surely you have to admit that some of the shortcomings we all see in David Carr must be laid at their feet.
Not all of course. No, I don't believe that David Carr is flawless or without room for improvement. That would be pretty silly to suggest. I'm saying that you're talking about throwing Vince Young behind the "worst line in the NFL" because David Carr has played poorly behind the "worst line in the NFL". That one runs in circles in your head doesn't it?
As for the TE situation you cannot possibly suggest that Bennie Joppru and his three straight season ending injuries could have been predicted. Granted of course that a move should have been made to realistically address the void left by his departure.
Vinny said:
Yes and we drafted Domanick Davis in the fourth round and he's done pretty much what we expected Stacey Mack to do. He neither excels nor does he embarass. He just gets the job done "well enough" until another back can be found to improve the position. Tony Hollings was supposed to improve the position. I guess Vernand Morency was too. Jonathan Wells was about the same caliber as Davis though in a different mold and a much slower starter. Dime a dozen these guys are.
Vinny said:
Did James Allen even try to get a job in the NFL after he left here? He wanted to be a rapper if I'm not mistaken. I honestly don't remember if I heard tell of him trying to make another squad or not. I know that he saw the writing on the wall and was out of here. Why wouldn't he be. We had just signed Stacey Mack and much of the talk prior to 2003 was about how Allen and Wells were losers who wouldn't make it out of training camp. I know you remember that.
Vinny said:
Did he ever even challenge for a starting spot? I don't remember him all that well but I do remember the name. I seem to recall him being with the Jaguars for a very short time following his year here. Oh well, you win some you lose some right? James Posey stood out while Keith Mitchell faded out.
Vinny said:
You got me on that one. To this very day I find myself thinking "WTF, where did the little chubby dude come from" when I look at a game from that season. That is of course when he was on the field. I think that outside of our clear starters Casserly has brought in some good linebackers (Posey, Foley) and some bad ones (Mitchell, Clemons) and to date we haven't had a defense that knew what to do with them or how to tell them apart.
Vinny said:
Another 2002 alumnus. You were more forgiving of them back in the day. Now they are evidence that Casserly has never know what he was doing? Matt Stevens played here long enough for us to find someone to take his place. That was explanation enough for me. Granted I thought Marlon McCree should have been that guy and that it should have happened a lot sooner but that's water under the bridge. Matt Stevens sucked, I'll agree with you there willingly.
Vinny said:
I got the impression that Victor Riley was brought in to replace Marcus Spears who was, for all intents and purposes no more than someone to practice against. Joe Pendry is the one that decided to replace Seth Wand with Victor Riley. Now that I think about it Joe Pendry was the one who decided that it was time to replace Chester Pitts with Seth Wand. Hmmm, I think we're on to something here. I wonder what would have happened if Chester Pitts had stayed at LT following the Texans 36 sack season?
We'll never know. You know I consider the offensive lines shortcomings to be primarily the result of scheme and coaching so no sense going back over that.
Vinny said:
2002 alumnus and I've already said my piece on Texans linebackers so you know what I'm going to say about this. No point in retyping it all.
Vinny said:
McKinney was again a 2002 team member. An original free agent signing from back in the "long ago time". Sure he should be cut now and it's time we found a real center but we got what we could get back in 2002. What can I say, we needed some veteran linemen and nobody was giving them out for free.
Vinny said:
Now we get to it. The straw that really did break the Camels back. The Buchanon trade was indefensible and solidly on the side of things Charlie Casserly has screwed up. We're still mostly burning about this one and if any one thing runs Casserly out of town it's going to be this one. More than anything it haunts him and he carries the blame for it. He can say that Capers wanted Babin and so he made the deal and we're all inclined to let him have that one. Buchanon he can't shift to anybody. It's become synonymous with him.
I hate like hell that we traded those picks for Phillip Buchanon. Honestly If I were an NFL GM I'd refuse to answer the phone when the Raiders were calling. It just seems like we always get the "muddy" end of that stick.
Vinny said:
I don't hold it against Casserly that he offered Bradford a very reasonable contract. I do hold it against the coaching staff here that Bradford started for us for 16 weeks. I found that incomprehensible with the other receivers we had on our roster. That was a coaching decision though. Bradford, it was reported had the best camp of his career last year so maybe they made the right choice. People bring guys into camp all the time who don't make it to opening day. I blame the coaches here.
Vinny said:
That bunch of roster moves goes from one end of the spectrum to another so I can't address them all with one answer. All of them IMO should still be here and I'm at a loss as to why they are not. I don't think that it's possible to lay each and every one of their cases at Charlie Casserly's feet though and I don't think you really believe that either. The GM by himself doesn't just walk down to the Head Coaches office and tell him that he's running these guys off whether Dom likes it or not. He doesn't let those guys go without some input from the coaches who work with those players.
All of the guys you mention there are on defense where the Texans have traditionally had the most "slip ups" when it came to players getting vocal with their complaints and frustrations. I think there's something to that. The very vocal complaints you've seen in our defensive players also have led to guys like Jeff Posey signing a deal the moment it was possible, just like Steve Foley did. Good players who could ran like hell from Vic Fangios defense. Other guys who could like Sharper and Glenn didn't make any bones about bailing when the opportunity presented itself. Bad players like Jay Foreman were upset by being let go but the good ones leave without a second thought. You think it's lack of faith in the system and coaching or do you think it's a deep seated dislike of the GM here?
Vinny said:
Well the Steelers proved years later that Tommy Maddox just might have been a franchise QB so maybe he was on to something. I'm not sure how Reeves was going to make Maddox a franchise QB in Denver when he was right smack dab in the middle of John Elways career but hey, the man can dream right? Kubiak I think had split to San Francisco by the time Maddox came to town but I might be wrong about that. Regardless he'd be in his first year as an assistant of some sort so I don't know if I'd expect him to be creating franchise QB's just yet. Everything takes time.
Vinny said:
Maybe not. Maybe we'd be talking about our first wildcard game or something. Or maybe we did have a better QB here but did a lousy job of developing him. It's not impossible. Why can't David Carr do what Jake Plummer did? Why can't he turn a corner and improve with better coaching and more weapons? I can accept that Reggie Bush isn't necessary. If we do hire Kubiak I want Bush because that offensive system can have any back plugged into it BUT it gets even better when you plug a guy like Bush into it. I also think that if Kubiak wants to trade down and get some better linemen or fix some defense that's ok too. I see Vince Young as a complete waste of that pick though and I think that unless he proves me wrong I always will.
This is one of those times when I wish I could fast forward life to see what these two QB's are doing three years from now. Despite what I said at the start of this long post I'm an impatient man and always have been. For some reason though I'm not impatient about the Texans right now. I think that they've let go of the people they needed to and that the team is better than it seems. Hopeless optimism? Maybe but I feel like it's not that far out there.
Oh and maybe the reason why Edge and Shaun get no offers is that one has over 9000 yards on him and the other is closing on 8000 yards. Right now it's a legitimate question to wonder how much tread is left on those tires. Who wants to be the guy who's going to pay either one of these players big bank to watch them sputter out like Emmitt in Arizona?
Ricky Williams got the Saints some good compensation when he was up on the trade block but then he didn't have that many miles on him.
thunderkyss said:
The only thing I could agree on was that there are a bunch of uniformed fans on this board who saw Young for the 1st time last week. This kind of explaination has got me really baffled now...unless you are making the whole "last year's Rose Bowl" thing up. Did you happen to catch the comeback at "The Horseshoe" or the giant comeback against Ok-State since last year's Rose Bowl?? Its like me saying Bush is overhyped because of one bad game...thank God for scouts. For the last time...before last week VY was "intending" to go back to school!!!! Yes this one game changed his mind so now there is a debate. Had he said last season was going to be his final season at the beginning of the season this issue would have been debated all year...PERIOD! You would have seen "We Want VY" signs all over the place throughout the year.
And why does this argument always turn into an athletic debate? Carr, Bush, and VY are great athletes. Is anyone saying Carr is a bad athlete? Its not about athletic ability...its about rings!!! If we are eventually in a championship game or Super Bowl and are 2 TDs behind at halftime who would you want handling the ball in the second half...VY, Bush, or Carr? The better question might be who don't you want handling the ball? Athletic ability alone does not win big games...ask M.Vick. This is why the VY/Vick comparison is so retarded.
I hate to think that in 5 years this debate may finally rest and "The curse of VY" will soon begin. Regardless of what happens this has the potential to get really nasty over the years if the Texans don't start contending pretty quick...
GoBlue
Noob
Who would you rather have calling the shots besides CC? No, Vinny you may not apply for the job. Looking at teams with supposedly "great" personnel people their draft results don't stand out much more than the Texans. Look at the picks of the Colts, Patriots, and Denver from the past draft:
Indianapolis
1. (29) Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
2. (60) Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
3. (92) Vincent Burns, DE Kentucky
4. (129) Dylan Gandy, OG Texas Tech
4. (135) Matt Giordano, S California
5. (148) Jonathan Welsh, DE Wisconsin
5. (165) Robert Hunt, OL North Dakota State
5. (173) Tyjuan Hagler, OLB Cincinnati
6. (202) Dave Rayner, PK Michigan State
7. (243) Anthony Davis, RB Wisconsin
New England
1. (32) Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State
3. (84) Ellis Hobbs, CB Iowa State
3. (100) Nick Kaczur, OT Toledo
4. (133) James Sanders, DB Fresno State
5. (170) Ryan Claridge, LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7. (230) Matt Cassel, QB USC
7. (255) Andy Stokes, TE William & Penn
Denver
2. (56) Darrent Williams, CB Oklahoma State
3. (76) Karl Paymah, CB Washington State
3. (97) Domonique Foxworth, CB Maryland
3. (101) Maurice Clarett, RB Ohio State
6. (200) Chris Myers, OG Miami (Fla)
7. (239) Paul Ernster, PK Northern Arizona
A couple of highlights- MAURICE CLARETT!!! we may want to be sure Kubiak didn't have any role in that waste of a pick. Also note the Pats took 2 O-linemen in the first 3 rounds- both are starting as the LEFT side of their line during this playoff run (scouting masterpiece or good coaching?). And I don't remember hearing much of anything from Indy's rookies. Maybe that's because they already had a team from their last 50 or so years in existence.
Be mad at CC all you want, but be careful what the alternatives are. I didn't even bring up Matt Millen's draft choices- I don't want CC to look like some kind of genius.
Indianapolis
1. (29) Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
2. (60) Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
3. (92) Vincent Burns, DE Kentucky
4. (129) Dylan Gandy, OG Texas Tech
4. (135) Matt Giordano, S California
5. (148) Jonathan Welsh, DE Wisconsin
5. (165) Robert Hunt, OL North Dakota State
5. (173) Tyjuan Hagler, OLB Cincinnati
6. (202) Dave Rayner, PK Michigan State
7. (243) Anthony Davis, RB Wisconsin
New England
1. (32) Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State
3. (84) Ellis Hobbs, CB Iowa State
3. (100) Nick Kaczur, OT Toledo
4. (133) James Sanders, DB Fresno State
5. (170) Ryan Claridge, LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7. (230) Matt Cassel, QB USC
7. (255) Andy Stokes, TE William & Penn
Denver
2. (56) Darrent Williams, CB Oklahoma State
3. (76) Karl Paymah, CB Washington State
3. (97) Domonique Foxworth, CB Maryland
3. (101) Maurice Clarett, RB Ohio State
6. (200) Chris Myers, OG Miami (Fla)
7. (239) Paul Ernster, PK Northern Arizona
A couple of highlights- MAURICE CLARETT!!! we may want to be sure Kubiak didn't have any role in that waste of a pick. Also note the Pats took 2 O-linemen in the first 3 rounds- both are starting as the LEFT side of their line during this playoff run (scouting masterpiece or good coaching?). And I don't remember hearing much of anything from Indy's rookies. Maybe that's because they already had a team from their last 50 or so years in existence.
Be mad at CC all you want, but be careful what the alternatives are. I didn't even bring up Matt Millen's draft choices- I don't want CC to look like some kind of genius.
SteelBlueToro
Waterboy
So one game should make the Texans scrap 4 years? Granted, the team regressed last year - but it is a little extreme to throw 4 years out because of 1 player's performance in 1 game (against the nation's 39th ranked defense I might add).El Tejano said:
SteelBlueToro
Waterboy
Probably high ranked defense, so I will give you that one. BUT the ROSE BOWL is supposedly when the "second coming" was born. FRESNO STATE put 40+ on USC.BREAZE said:
SteelBlueToro
Waterboy
No they couldn'ttulexan said:
tulexan said:
Your missing the point, he scored points against a top defense when it mattered most in the most hostile enviornment imaginable. This is what so many people seem to be overlooking. I admit they would of had there hands full with Troy Smith, but scoreboard is "scoreboard" and VY entered the draft...
tulexan
Hall of Fame
BREAZE said:
If I'm missing the point, then what is the point? That scoring against a tough defense in a hard environment is more important than the win? Because if Troy Smith played in that game, and Texas lost but Vince played well what does that prove? Isn't that the same as David Carr having a good game but his defense couldn't get it done? Which is what happened in many of our losses.
The Dream
All Pro
I swear I wanted to hop through that t.v. screen and slap the piss outta Cass last night........he seems so stubborn and cold.......if they pass up on Vince, I personally hope the Titans draft him so he can kick our *** for the remainder of his career and so this franchise and their stupid front office personal can be haunted for the rest of their lives.......and I'm serious.
tulexan said:
Let me guess, you probably picked USC over TX this year too? I'm speaking about what "did" happen and you are assuming what "might" have happened.
I just want rings man!! If we extend Carr's deal, bring Bush, and win rings I will be on cloud 9! If we don't and VY wins rings for the Titans (of all teams) I will just puke all over myself and McNair will catch crap that he really does not deserve. I think that's what most are freaking out over...if you have been a footballl fan in Houston for a while you should be able to relate...this is a frightening scenerio regardless of what happens and trying to debate its not is foolish.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
You still didn't answer my question. If I'm missing the point, then what is it?
I don't want to hear about how upset you will be if Vince plays well for the Titans. If they lost against Ohio State, but Vince played well, how is that different from all of the games where David played well, but the team still lost?
I don't want to hear about how upset you will be if Vince plays well for the Titans. If they lost against Ohio State, but Vince played well, how is that different from all of the games where David played well, but the team still lost?
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Look here Bitter Cat-SteelBlueToro said:
You're making it sound like VY had his 1st good game last Wed. He was a local HS stud, only lost 1 game last year and none this year. I'm sure you're one of those UT haters cuz you go to another TX school but c'mon, lay off it.
And quit comparing what guys will equivilate to in the NFL due to the D's they face in college. It's an unfair comparison. Would you say that the SEC is the toughst Conference in the NCAA, then if so then should NFL teams only pick QB's from the SEC. What about McNown. I'm sure all you Cats fans were hyped when he threw that winning TD against the Vikes to keep them out of the playoffs a couple seasons ago and then got the starting job the season after.
As for the 4 years we've invested in the team, I assume you're talking about Carr. Usually when you replace your coaching staff and wind up with the 1st pick in the draft, you usually draft a QB. Especially if the one you got has 150+ sax on his sack-dometer and missed no time with injuries. Especially if the freakiest ath/qb is available and happens to be a hometown product. What more do you want?
Porky
Hall of Fame
CC has a vested interest in seeing his boy make good. Mcnair has screwed the pooch again. His heart is in the right place, but he needs to pull his head out of his a** and get with it, or we will be looking at 4th place finishes for a long time. I don't want to be the Bengals of the AFC South. He should have dumped Cass in the bloodletting and started clean. It is a huge mistake to have holdovers who may have a personal interest in seeing that certain players remain. A whole new regime was the way to go. Yet ANOTHER major screwup by Mcnair. Cass has earned the right to be canned, and nothing more.
As to Young, I have been on his jock all year. I just didn't think he was coming out. Whatever happened to these lenghty debates that he wouldn't even be drafted as a QB in the NFL? He will go to the Titans and will haunt this franchise for the next 15 years. So be it.
Another thing that bothered me last night was Cass was saying that we won't be active in FA. So forget about Bentley or any other premium FA. Thanks for another great offseason Cass. :brickwall
As to Young, I have been on his jock all year. I just didn't think he was coming out. Whatever happened to these lenghty debates that he wouldn't even be drafted as a QB in the NFL? He will go to the Titans and will haunt this franchise for the next 15 years. So be it.
Another thing that bothered me last night was Cass was saying that we won't be active in FA. So forget about Bentley or any other premium FA. Thanks for another great offseason Cass. :brickwall
Toxicology
Practice Squad
This is a longish post, but I really wanted to get some feedback on my points (that I'm sure others have discussed to some degree.)
1. IMO, the new coaching staff will have more impact on the Texans from a W-L perspective in 2006. If Bob McNair is being realistic, 6-7 wins for 2006 is the goal. The new coaching staff can probably get there, regardless of whether we get Young or Bush. Switch to the 4-3. Run DD and Morency behind the Denver Bronco's line. That's enough for 6 to 7 wins. Shoot, the 2005 team should have won 4-5 games.
2. Then who to chose, VY or Bush? What to do with Carr? The best way for Bob McNair to hedge his bets is to pick up the 2 year option on Carr and draft VY. In 2006, Carr gets one last shot to show what he's got. While he's doing that, VY is learning and the fans aren't going beserk. The team wins 6-7 games, the fans aren't angry b/c VY is waiting in the wings. After a 2-14 debacle, 6-7 wins is ok.
3. What's worse for Carr? Draft VY and the fans boo every time Carr throws an incompletion, chanting VY's name? OR, let VY go Tennessee and the fans will boo every time Carr throws a bad pass. It's the same. The only difference is that the fans won't be upset at the team if VY is here.
4. Doesn't McNair want an "impact player"? Yes, but see point 1 above. Bush won't have that much of an "impact" from a W-L standpoint. (my opinion). Bush's impact would be from a gate/fan interest standpoing. VY kicks bush's *** in that category.
5. Fast forward to mid or end 2006: At that point, You know a lot more about Carr's ability, you have insight on VY's progress.
Here are the possibilities for 2006:
A. Let's say Carr takes a huge step forward and you are faced with dealing VY. The rest of the world doesn't know squat about Vince's progress and he is still hot property. In next year's draft, it is entirely conceivable that you could package VY and our first round pick for Adrian Petersen. No stretch whatsoever. In 2007, you have a polished Carr and Adrian Petersen. Yeah, that doesn't stink. I'll go on record right now and say that Adrian Petersen's NFL career will crush Reggie Bush's (and I hate OU). What about angering the fan base? Well, if Carr is proving to be the guy, the fans will understand a lot better than if McNair declines to draft VY now, before anyone knows whether Carr will ever live up to his "potential".
B. Alternatively, let's say Carr improves, but not much, and VY is progressing. You are faced with trading Carr for a 3rd rounder. So, in 2007, you start VY, DD/Morency. Under this assumption though (that Carr doesn't improve much in 2006 under the new staff), thank goodness you didn't pick Bush instead of VY. IMO, A mediocre Carr plus Bush is probably not good enough to get into the playoffs, certainly not enough to unseat Indy, and certainly not enough to win it all. Even if Bush becomes an elite running back. Remember, Indy has Manning, James and Harrison - Mannign being the most important piece. Assuming that Bush becomes an elite rusher (and not Eric Metcalf, Rocket Ismail or Desmond Howard), we'd have James and Harrison, but no Manning. A 2nd year VY has the potential to push us into the playoffs. No lock to do so, but potential with a high upside.
C. Alternatively, Carr doesn't improve, and VY looks clueless, and Bush was Rookie of the Year with 1,400 yards rushing. We'd be better off with Carr and Bush, but we could still deal VY. Nobody else knows that VY can't get the job done. This is our worst case scenario, but the down side is controlled.
In short, by taking BY, you delay the QB decision, control the downside risk, take the path with the highest upside, and enable yourself to make the decision based on much more information -- all at little or no cost to the franchise in terms of Wins and Losses and fan base.
1. IMO, the new coaching staff will have more impact on the Texans from a W-L perspective in 2006. If Bob McNair is being realistic, 6-7 wins for 2006 is the goal. The new coaching staff can probably get there, regardless of whether we get Young or Bush. Switch to the 4-3. Run DD and Morency behind the Denver Bronco's line. That's enough for 6 to 7 wins. Shoot, the 2005 team should have won 4-5 games.
2. Then who to chose, VY or Bush? What to do with Carr? The best way for Bob McNair to hedge his bets is to pick up the 2 year option on Carr and draft VY. In 2006, Carr gets one last shot to show what he's got. While he's doing that, VY is learning and the fans aren't going beserk. The team wins 6-7 games, the fans aren't angry b/c VY is waiting in the wings. After a 2-14 debacle, 6-7 wins is ok.
3. What's worse for Carr? Draft VY and the fans boo every time Carr throws an incompletion, chanting VY's name? OR, let VY go Tennessee and the fans will boo every time Carr throws a bad pass. It's the same. The only difference is that the fans won't be upset at the team if VY is here.
4. Doesn't McNair want an "impact player"? Yes, but see point 1 above. Bush won't have that much of an "impact" from a W-L standpoint. (my opinion). Bush's impact would be from a gate/fan interest standpoing. VY kicks bush's *** in that category.
5. Fast forward to mid or end 2006: At that point, You know a lot more about Carr's ability, you have insight on VY's progress.
Here are the possibilities for 2006:
A. Let's say Carr takes a huge step forward and you are faced with dealing VY. The rest of the world doesn't know squat about Vince's progress and he is still hot property. In next year's draft, it is entirely conceivable that you could package VY and our first round pick for Adrian Petersen. No stretch whatsoever. In 2007, you have a polished Carr and Adrian Petersen. Yeah, that doesn't stink. I'll go on record right now and say that Adrian Petersen's NFL career will crush Reggie Bush's (and I hate OU). What about angering the fan base? Well, if Carr is proving to be the guy, the fans will understand a lot better than if McNair declines to draft VY now, before anyone knows whether Carr will ever live up to his "potential".
B. Alternatively, let's say Carr improves, but not much, and VY is progressing. You are faced with trading Carr for a 3rd rounder. So, in 2007, you start VY, DD/Morency. Under this assumption though (that Carr doesn't improve much in 2006 under the new staff), thank goodness you didn't pick Bush instead of VY. IMO, A mediocre Carr plus Bush is probably not good enough to get into the playoffs, certainly not enough to unseat Indy, and certainly not enough to win it all. Even if Bush becomes an elite running back. Remember, Indy has Manning, James and Harrison - Mannign being the most important piece. Assuming that Bush becomes an elite rusher (and not Eric Metcalf, Rocket Ismail or Desmond Howard), we'd have James and Harrison, but no Manning. A 2nd year VY has the potential to push us into the playoffs. No lock to do so, but potential with a high upside.
C. Alternatively, Carr doesn't improve, and VY looks clueless, and Bush was Rookie of the Year with 1,400 yards rushing. We'd be better off with Carr and Bush, but we could still deal VY. Nobody else knows that VY can't get the job done. This is our worst case scenario, but the down side is controlled.
In short, by taking BY, you delay the QB decision, control the downside risk, take the path with the highest upside, and enable yourself to make the decision based on much more information -- all at little or no cost to the franchise in terms of Wins and Losses and fan base.
Cass. has been about average in the draft. Been terrible in free agency. Getting rid of glen and sharper was a disaster. Missed on a few draft picks,, but nothing major. We will be in good shape after this years draft no matter who we take, but i truly believe vince young will be the best choice for this team in the long run. Our rushing offense was pretty good this past year, but, our passing was terrible. Take Young, but we will be should win either way, just like our chances better with Young.
FILO_girl
I'm not here
The Dream said:
MANY of us have a problem with Casserly. Mention his name and my BP goes to the roof! I start talking like a sailor (some words I didn't know I knew). The man is poison to our organization, but until Bob sees it...he is here. We have to deal with it. I still think Dan Reeves is here for a reason not given yet.
Look at it this way, for those of us who don't care for
Let's plan his going away party! It has to come soon!
PS to Khari- can you add Charley to our collection?