Casserly Gone Today?

[Texans Horror]

Speak for yourself. Reggie Bush was the right choice imo. I think they will live to regret it. But, it's done. Water under the bridge. Resignation and acceptance doesn't equate to agreement.

I didn't like the pick either. I've been amazed at how dissociative the board's identity has been over the past six months. Before the Rose Bowl, you were reamed for not wanted Fergie. Then, you were blitzed for not wanting Young. After a month or two of that, it was all Reggie, and anyone thinking otherwise should be hung out to dry. Now that we've picked Mario, their is an Inquisition going on against anybody who thinks negatively about Mario or positively about the other guys.

For the record, I was in the Bush camp, but I think any of those players would have done well.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I think he was too as he was the only player I wanted if we weren't going to draft Young...and that was obvious it wouldn't happen early on. Bush would have turned our offense into a great explosive offense. We will have to see what Williams does and see how he impacts the defense. I don't even think he was a finalist for any of the prestigious line awards last year, so his workout was more impressive than his production. That said, there is nothing we can do about it except get behind our guys and judge them on what we see on the field.

I have mixed feelings on Casserly, but I don't like his decision making style. If you keep giving the decisions to the people under you and they pass the decisions to guys like Vic Fangio....ugh. I have a headache just thinking about his management style.

One could easily juxtapose the statement if things happened differently:
Williams would have turned our defense into a great explosive defense. We will have to see what Bush does and see how he impacts the offense.

Fangio should never be mentioned again.

 

[SESupergenius]

Many more factors went into that.

The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

 

[Runner]

I have mixed feelings on Casserly, but I don't like his decision making style. If you keep giving the decisions to the people under you and they pass the decisions to guys like Vic Fangio....ugh. I have a headache just thinking about his management style.

Was Casserly really Capers' boss in anything more than an org chart drawing? I don't know which option reflects reality for the Texans:

1) Casserly was a weak boss who could have TOLD Capers what to do and made it stick, but didn't.

2) Casserly really had no direct authority over Capers because there was more of a front office council (i.e. McNAir's influence) running things.

I'm pretty sure Capers/Casserly didn't agree on some of the players that were getting playing time last year. In addition, I think Casserly wanted some assistants fired before the season started but Dom wouldn't do it.

 

[Vinny]

One could easily juxtapose the statement if things happened differently:
Williams would have turned our defense into a great explosive defense. We will have to see what Bush does and see how he impacts the offense.

Fangio should never be mentioned again.

Bush produced on the field. Tell me who the Lombardi finalists were last year, and try to explain to me why Williams wasn't one of them.

 

[HoustonFrog]

The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

Could not agree more and I'll state it one last time. The GMs job is "personnel." This includes drafts, trades, coaches, etc. It is a cop out and excuse to say that the picks or moves were Capers. Even with his input the final decision comes down to the GM. In all honestly, why have a GM if his role is to gather info and then wash his hands of it when others make decisions?That is HIS job and by the direction of the team after 4 years he failed miseribly. Sorry, there is no way to spin that. It was his job.

 

[Rightnow]

When CC is gone I wonder how this message board will treat the new GM. CC has made some boneheaded moves, but so do most if not all GMs.

So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Bush produced on the field. Tell me who the Lombardi finalists were last year, and try to explain to me why Williams wasn't one of them.

No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

 

[Porky]

The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

Bingo! We have a winner. Let's see. If a guy like DD is picked, everyone praises CC and calls him a great evaulator of talent. When Jason Babin is a flop, it's not his fault, it's because he only picks the players his coaches want. Well, which is it? This guy talks out of both sides of his mouth, and wants it both ways.

 

[Vinny]

No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.

 

[SESupergenius]

So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

Every GM is allowed to have some bonehead moves. But not that many. Not as many as Casserly has had/allowed.

An example of a good GM. Someone who's teams have winning records in the last 5 years.

 

[Porky]

No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production.

 

[Runner]

So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

Any of the ones who have never messed up.

 

[kingh99]

No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

I agree 100%. There have been many a legendary college player that played his best ball in college. And some guys you never heard of who became monsters in the pros. People hit their physical and mental peak at different ages.

 

[Exascor]

This thread seems to have derailed a little but...

I was a Young -> Bush -> Trade Down guy. I wasn't happy with Williams for the same reasons Vinny posted. Seems like he was a workout warrior that went from unknown status to the first pick because of his combine performance. I have doubts because he played with 2 other first round picks on a weak team. I have doubts because he was benched midseason. He didn't dominate until after the benching and when he was playing weaker opponents.

Bush and Young both performed at very high levels for at least an entire season. Sure I had doubts about both of them but to me the risk was less. I'd have been elated if we had traded down and taken Williams but the first pick was just too high imo.

That said, he's a Texan and I'll support him. Who's to blame (or gets credit) for the Williams over Bush/Young pick? Kubiak imo

Back to the original topic though: Cassery did take too many risks for my tastes but other than that he did what I'd expect from a GM. He took the input from his staff and picked players that they felt would best fit their scheme. Too much delagating? Maybe. Did he help pick a bad staff? Maybe. I just don't think he did that bad of a job.

If he is really gone, then I wish him good luck.

 

[Porky]

I agree 100%. There have been many a legendary college player that played his best ball in college. And some guys you never heard of who became monsters in the pros. People hit their physical and mental peak at different ages.

Sure there are guys who became monsters in the pros. Rod Smith was not even drafted. But, Rod Smith wasn't the #1 pick in the draft. The point is that at that spot, it's much safer to pick the guy who actually consistently got it done on the field, week after week, down after down, then a wildly inconsistent player who looks like Superman, but plays like Clark Kent.

 

[Bobo]

Every GM is allowed to have some bonehead moves. But not that many. Not as many as Casserly has had/allowed.

An example of a good GM. Someone who's teams have winning records in the last 5 years.

Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you are on right now may about to get green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans. This is my biggest gripe with the Texans as a franchise. The greatest franchises emphasize and exhibit patience, even in the lean times. The worst franchises just jump from coach to coach, player to player, GM to GM and never get any continuity going. The result is what you've got in teams like the Arizona Cardinals. And I believe that's just what the Texans are headed -- another verison of the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[Porky]

Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you may be on may about to be getting green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans.

Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Carr is a mistake. Williams just like anyone else we drafted this year has a tabula rasa until we get some snaps. Kill Cass on Carr and Babin if you want to spit venom for our #1 picks.

 

[chuckm]

Carr is a mistake.

Possibly. We'll know for sure in less than a year. However, throwing him to the wolves was definitely a mistake.

Kill Cass on Carr and Babin if you want to spit venom for our #1 picks.

John McClain has said on more than one occasion that Capers and Fangio told CC that drafting Babin was a must ....

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production.

Well, DeMeco Ryans was one of the finalists for the Bronko Nagurski award; Dumerville won. Dumerville was drafted in the 4th round.

Poluzsny (sp) won the Bednarik award and beat out AJ Hawk and D'Qwell Jackson.

Obviously, winning these awards doesn't translate to draft status and not being in the running for them shouldn't count against Williams. Several teams had Williams rated higher than Bush. That's enough for me.

And... I wasn't here for the discussions prior to the draft so I didn't see who people were talking about then. I would have been in the Ferguson camp. I never wanted Young or Bush and I'm perfectly happy with Williams.

 

[SESupergenius]

Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you may be on may about to be getting green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans.

The grass has to be greener since we went 2-14. All under his watch. If you are saying that we dug it up too early then Capers should still be here as well considering they worked together on the drafts (according to Casserly). You will not find a bigger supported of Capers on these boards than I am(was), but I knew it was time for him to go. Casserly apologists should do the same.

I was in trade down camp and wasn't into the whole Bush/Young homer debate. I knew that our defense needed more attention than offense, but to bring in 2 new lineman that have started significantly and then DRAFT a DE with the #1 pick made very little sense. IMO Casserly didn't do a very good job entertaining offers for the #1 pick, one in which we now have 3 players draft in the top 3 spots over 5 years, we are going to get killed in the cap somewhere.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.

It depends on who you define as nobody. Those nobody's are sportswriters not NFL scouts.

http://www.newsobserver.com/122/story/433889.html

Another motivator for Williams came when he wasn't one of 12 Lombardi Award semifinalists.

"You really can't explain what happened," Williams said before the bowl game in Charlotte. "If I was to go back and have the first half of the season like it is now in the second half, I'd have 20-plus sacks."

 

[Vinny]

Well, DeMeco Ryans was one of the finalists for the Bronko Nagurski award; Dumerville won. Dumerville was drafted in the 4th round.

Poluzsny (sp) won the Bednarik award and beat out AJ Hawk and D'Qwell Jackson.

Obviously, winning these awards doesn't translate to draft status and not being in the running for them shouldn't count against Williams. Several teams had Williams rated higher than Bush. That's enough for me.

And... I wasn't here for the discussions prior to the draft so I didn't see who people were talking about then. I would have been in the Ferguson camp. I never wanted Young or Bush and I'm perfectly happy with Williams.

Nobody is saying that the winner translates to being the better player...but when you are the first overall pick and you aren't even mentioned as one of the best linemen of the year....thats a red flag.

 

[Bobo]

Yes, but as GM he had insight into who McNair should hire as head coach. Casserly was part of building the worst expansion team of all time. He has done a poor job for the texans as GM and should be gone.

This is lunacy. The Texans were steadily improving for their first three years. They had one bad year where they regressed and you say something like this?

 

[HoustonFrog]

Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

 

[Bobo]

Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

The Saints, I believe, took something like seven years to get to 7-9 -- something Capers accomplished in three. And it took 20 years for them to have a winning record. Try the Bengals. Paul Brown's team had a couple of bad years, then a good one, and then a horrible one. They didn't get rid of him, and two years later they won their division. And Tampa Bay wasn't all that great either. It takes time to build a winner, and for you to expect something like that after four years when the only thing these guys had to work with was raw rookies and NFL rejects is completely unrealistic.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

The only thing I would say to this is that Cass would not mandate that we are running the 3-4 defense. If you want to ding him for Babin then you have to ding the 3-4 and Capers for taking Carr and not Peppers. It works both ways in my opinion.

 

[HJam72]

To be honest, I sort of afree with Bobo on this particular subject, but for a very different reason: I think the old coaching staff made CC look terrible. Not just in terms of telling him who they wanted, but more so in terms of plain bad coaching and terrible play-calling and scheming. I think he should stay, but having said that, I'm OK with it if he goes. I mean when your team goes 2-14, it's perfectly understandable to replace the entire old regime.

 

[Bobo]

Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

More bull. Where you get this "four years of bringing us down" when the team had just one year of regression is beyond me. You don't create immediate winners when all you have to choose from is NFL rejects and raw rookies. It takes time -- apparently something many folks aren't willing to offer up. But folks like this get what they deserve -- they find themselves constantly starting over and never getting even close to what they want.

 

[Bobo]

To be honest, I sort of afree with Bobo on this particular subject, but for a very different reason: I think the old coaching staff made CC look terrible. Not just in terms of telling him who they wanted, but more so in terms of plain bad coaching and terrible play-calling and scheming. I think he should stay, but having said that, I'm OK with it if he goes. I mean when your team goes 2-14, it's perfectly understandable to replace the entire old regime.

One bad year and you want to blow up the whole thing. Well, that takes you back to year one. Now instead of regressing in just one year with a chance to bounce back, you are going back to scratch and will have to wait once again to get to where you want to be. Sounds pretty darn silly to me.

 

[HoustonFrog]

The only thing I would say to this is that Cass would not mandate that we are running the 3-4 defense. If you want to ding him for Babin then you have to ding the 3-4 and Capers for taking Carr and not Peppers. It works both ways in my opinion.

Fair enough and a valid point but he also was the guy who led the coaching search and who hired Capers?(Carr was never my pick by the way) He knew his tendencies and his background. In my book they were all in bed with each other when they started this franchise. Capers made bad moves and was true to his buddies..maybe tendencies that should have been discovered beforehand. If you follow the 4 years either way I think they both should have been gone together.

 

[pv1999]

Can Cass have an official announcement before everybody shows him the door? Sheeash.
I think he has screwed us too but not with Carr, he was the best QB in that draft and it wasn't going to happen in free agency, The Babin pick sucked, we should have picked up DJ last year, He did however get the Andre Johnson pick right. Davis was a reach that turned out well, so far. He screwed us with his line selections on both sides of the ball and that cornerburnt he picked up last year. Letting Glenn go was also a mistake, and when will we get our best QB out of the defensive backfield? Nevermind now that I think about it, we have been Cas***********ed with no vaseline. That explains Mario, he knew it didn't matter anyway cause he would be gone.

 

[HoustonFrog]

More bull. Where you get this "four years of bringing us down" when the team had just one year of regression is beyond me. You don't create immediate winners when all you have to choose from is NFL rejects and raw rookies. It takes time -- apparently something many folks aren't willing to offer up. But folks like this get what they deserve -- they find themselves constantly starting over and never getting even close to what they want.

What do you mean?The NFL lets you pick guys to start your team. Then you are given the TOP pick in every round to add to it. You basically can sign who you want and conssitently have high draft picks. That is called bad personnel moves. 2-14 is more than one year of regression. Under you argument Capers should have stayed too because we were headed in the right direction. It is a talent level thing mixed with coaching. They all were in it together and we are starting from scratch because of them.

 

[SESupergenius]

One bad year and you want to blow up the whole thing. Well, that takes you back to year one. Now instead of regressing in just one year with a chance to bounce back, you are going back to scratch and will have to wait once again to get to where you want to be. Sounds pretty darn silly to me.

So Capers should still be here, he only had 1 bad year, correct?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Fair enough and a valid point but he also was the guy who led the coaching search and who hired Capers?(Carr was never my pick by the way) He knew his tendencies and his background. In my book they were all in bed with each other when they started this franchise. Capers made bad moves and was true to his buddies..maybe tendencies that should have been discovered beforehand. If you follow the 4 years either way I think they both should have been gone together.

I agree along the lines of your logic. All I know is that a surgery was performed the first week of January and in my world of Texan fandom happy days have followed since. The only thing that changed was the coaching staff which fostered a new mentaility which Cass was a part of and executed upon. The level of degree is debatable, but the results in my opinion are not.

 

[Snapple]

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.

Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!

 

[U4ikrob]

Too many bad choices mixed with not enough good ones over 5 years usually spells being let go in any business. Compared to his good decisions I'm honestly surprised he wasnt out-right fired after last year, but think Mcnair didnt want to completely get rid of the old staff until he had a new solid staff in place - like now to run things, draft and get the team situated and moving forward into this new year before letting Charlie go.

Sorry but Charlie did a poor job as a GM here. Ultimately his many bad choices far outweighed his few good ones. Lets not forget to mention he and his whole staff pretty much ignored the owner's request last year [To protect David Carr] and let the "Franchise QB" pretty much get beat on almost as bad as his first year here. It's now known that Charlie pretty much let his staff run the team with him making speeches and occasioanl decisions. He let the staff run thigns so much that they eventually ran the players off the team or into the ground to the point he had to have ownership step in and make choices for him, fired his previous staff before the team was completely lost and try to turn things around before they had to scrap it all and rebuild from the start like Cleveland did. IMO the Texans are not far off from what happened in Cleveland - the results are scary in comparison.

Anyone still think Dan Reeves wasnt here to evaluate Charlie and the whole staff? I still dont buy that one. IMO Sorry Charlie - But you were a bad GM. You could have been worse for sure, but hopefully we can stop the bleeding after today. Do the right thing and resign.

As for Good GM's/FO - How about the Patriots or Steelers - both good teams who tend not to overspend and usually develop good players thru the draft.

 

[Porky]

The Saints, I believe, took something like seven years to get to 7-9 -- something Capers accomplished in three. And it took 20 years for them to have a winning record. Try the Bengals. Paul Brown's team had a couple of bad years, then a good one, and then a horrible one. They didn't get rid of him, and two years later they won their division. And Tampa Bay wasn't all that great either. It takes time to build a winner, and for you to expect something like that after four years when the only thing these guys had to work with was raw rookies and NFL rejects is completely unrealistic.

Tampa Bay was in the playoffs in year four. We had a 2-14 record. Nice try though.

 

[dalemurphy]

What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.

My friend who watches the ACC regularly (Maryland grad), was commenting on this guy during the season. He thought he was awesome. The reason why he wasn't considered dominate in the media, etc. probably has to do with the hype machine going into last season. He was on a mediocre team and was a true junior. Couple that with a slow start and there wasn't time for the hype to start up. Furthermore, people criticize his season as inconsistant because he only had one sack in his first 5 games. I find that fact to be exciting. He was a young guy learning the nuances of the position. Once he grasped things, he had 13.5 sacks in his last 7 games. I'd say that is pretty dominate production.

Finalists for most college awards are predetermined before the season even begins.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Nobody is saying that the winner translates to being the better player...but when you are the first overall pick and you aren't even mentioned as one of the best linemen of the year....thats a red flag.

Mentioned by whom? By the people picking the awards? Or the people drafting? Because he was being mentioned as the best lineman in the draft by the people who count. Mario Williams was the highest defensive player on more draft boards than just ours. Several mock drafts had him going second to the Saints and many more had him being picked in the top 10.

Whether he was in the running for NCAA awards is irrelevant.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Tampa Bay was in the playoffs in year four. We had a 2-14 record. Nice try though.

Another close one (although no cigar) is the Cleveland Browns.

1999 - 2-14
2000 - 3-13
2001 - 7-9
2002 - 9-7 (and into the playoffs in year 4)
2003 - 5-11
2004 - 4-12
2005 - 6-10

We did better the first three years but then totally bombed out on the 4th year. Hopefully, we do better than they've done since their 4th year.

 

[kingh99]

Sure there are guys who became monsters in the pros. Rod Smith was not even drafted. But, Rod Smith wasn't the #1 pick in the draft. The point is that at that spot, it's much safer to pick the guy who actually consistently got it done on the field, week after week, down after down, then a wildly inconsistent player who looks like Superman, but plays like Clark Kent.

Actually wunderkind college rb's have more often than not seen their bests days in college. We all know the examples. Goes back to Ricky Bell and Archie Griffin. Probably further than that.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

Dallas Cowboys, Houston Oilers after NFL merger to name two. Apprently it is in our Texan DNA more so than a carpetbagger from the northeast.

 

[El Tejano]

Mentioned by whom? By the people picking the awards? Or the people drafting? Because he was being mentioned as the best lineman in the draft by the people who count. Mario Williams was the highest defensive player on more draft boards than just ours. Several mock drafts had him going second to the Saints and many more had him being picked in the top 10.

Whether he was in the running for NCAA awards is irrelevant.

Not when you think that most teams are smart and put players on their board so that they force teams like us to make guessing decisions.

 

[Double Barrel]

Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production.

Note to Porky - most Heisman winners have been busts in the NFL.

"There have been 70 winners since University of Chicago running back Jay Berwanger took home the first one in 1935, and using both hands, you could total up the number who went on to become truly great pros." - Jim Litke, AP

And on the flip side, some of the greatest players in the history of pro football won no personal awards in college.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Not when you think that most teams are smart and put players on their board so that they force teams like us to make guessing decisions.

Are you saying that it was a guess to decide that the 31st defense in the NFL last year needed to be addressed?

 

[Trap_Star]

Yet to play a down in the nfl.....

 

[The Duke]

See ya!!!

and I wouldn't wanna be ya!!!!!!

Time for

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Yet to play a down in the nfl.....