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Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)

They can say what they want,but keenam is not a nfl quality qb. They can say what they want,but we've seen tj yates make plays in crucial parts of the game that won games. He did that as a rookie. Neither case or schaub wouldvehave made those plays with the pocket broken that yates did. So, I guess we will see.
 
SAMURAITEXAN said:
TC, how good in your eyes Case and TJ are doing? I trust your opinion more this article.
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I detail it in my blog post.

Articles like this one are exactly the reason I like to be at camp. I don't see what he is seeing. "Grabs early edge." Oh please.

And some of the strong views on what is happening at camp are from people who are there sporadically.
 
Texans_Chick said:
I detail it in my blog post.

Articles like this one are exactly the reason I like to be at camp. I don't see what he is seeing. "Grabs early edge." Oh please.

And some of the strong views on what is happening at camp are from people who are there sporadically.
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Just got through reading your blog and thanks for info. I now have clearer understanding on what is happening at camp. Glad we have you as TTC member!
 
One of the reasons Keenum didn't get drafted is because his hindered combine performance supported what scouts were already suspicious of. He had actually pulled a hamstring when trying to improve his 40 time, and the injury affected his throwing. He had a much better performance during his Pro Day workout, but no one was paying attention by then.

From what I've been reading, Keenum has ample momentum towards winning the #2 spot. Kubiak has indicated that both Case and Yates will be playing an increased number of snaps in preseason as part of the competition, so the opportunity for Case is a realistic one.

Concerning Yates' chances: First off, I'm not going to put too much weight on his disappointing performance last season since (according to the Texans Huddle podcast) he was affected by elbow tendonitis all season. I do knock him for lapses of situational awareness, like in the Vikings game. What I know at this time is that Zierlein said that TJ has not created enough distance between himself and Keenum to have an advantage. So apparently he's vulnerable.

Though this thread is about the #2 spot, John McClain's assertion that Keenum is being groomed as the QB of the future is not unrealistic. Kubiak has already said that he believes Keenum will be a starter in the NFL, but my belief on this is more related to cap management. Schaub has two years of guaranteed money left, and JJ Watt will be due a monster contract in two years. And this is after Cushing's huge contract extension. Some veterans will be cut, and if Case (or some X-factor acquisition) possesses anywhere near the effectiveness of Schaub, then Schaub is a cap casualty.
 
Preseason should separate the 2. I'll reserve judgement until I see them on the field with the lights on. TJ looked terrible in preseason last year and I didn't see enough of Case to say what I think he'll look like this year. Both of them need to step up in order for me to feel comfortable with our backup QB situation.
 
Brisco_County said:
One of the reasons Keenum didn't get drafted is because his hindered combine performance supported what scouts were already suspicious of. He had actually pulled a hamstring when trying to improve his 40 time, and the injury affected his throwing. He had a much better performance during his Pro Day workout, but no one was paying attention by then.

From what I've been reading, Keenum has ample momentum towards winning the #2 spot. Kubiak has indicated that both Case and Yates will be playing an increased number of snaps in preseason as part of the competition, so the opportunity for Case is a realistic one.

Concerning Yates' chances: First off, I'm not going to put too much weight on his disappointing performance last season since (according to the Texans Huddle podcast) he was affected by elbow tendonitis all season. I do knock him for lapses of situational awareness, like in the Vikings game. What I know at this time is that Zierlein said that TJ has not created enough distance between himself and Keenum to have an advantage. So apparently he's vulnerable.

Though this thread is about the #2 spot, John McClain's assertion that Keenum is being groomed as the QB of the future is not unrealistic. Kubiak has already said that he believes Keenum will be a starter in the NFL, but my belief on this is more related to cap management. Schaub has two years of guaranteed money left, and JJ Watt will be due a monster contract in two years. And this is after Cushing's huge contract extension. Some veterans will be cut, and if Case (or some X-factor acquisition) possesses anywhere near the effectiveness of Schaub, then Schaub is a cap casualty.
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That's understandable, well thought out. But I think Kubiak understands there is a good chance we're going to see both of these QBs in 2013, in the event that Schaub gets hurt, so he needs both of them ready, which supports putting Keenum on the fast track. He doesn't want to put Keenum in the same situation Yates was in two years ago, thrown to the wolves with nothing but scout team reps (Yates didn't have any reps in our system other than what he had in camp before Lienart got here).

So I believe Kubiak looks at them as 2a & 2b. There's no real "competition" Yates will be the back up & Keenum will be ready to go if needed.

If Schaub gets hurt, Yates is going in. If Yates is ineffective, he will get pulled (something that was not an option 2 years ago). Then Keenum will get his chance.

If Schaub is out for an extended period of time, he may very well bounce back & forth between the two if neither shows themselves ready to be a starter.

In 2012, I'm sure Kubiak felt restricted because of his receiving options & their performance during real games. in 2013, it will be the same with the QBs. We'll see 100% of the play book with Schaub. I would assume we should expect to see 100% of the play book with Yates, & Gary is trying his damdest to get Keenum there as well.

But after that first game with Yates, in a real game situation, Kubiak will find out if Yates can or cannot handle 100% of the playbook. He should have a good feel for it since Yates has been in that situation before. At that time he probably ran 65% to 75% of the play book. & now Kubiak expects 80% before he pulls him. (I am totally making these numbers up).

So if Kubiak thinks 80% of the play book, plus Tj's ability to go off script is enough to win games with little risk, Tj will continue to play. If he thinks that 80% + offscript gives him a better shot at winning (because in this league, you need that off script ability) Matt Schaub will never see the field as our starter again.

If he thinks there's too much risk & Keenum can give us 100% of the play book, then he'll yank Yates & Keenum will start. Again, you don't know until you know, so expect that theoretical 100% number to come down once Keenum is in a real game that counts. Just like Tj's. Realistically Kubiak should be expecting 80% + off script ability. He's going to expect some mistakes, but not to see those mistakes again & again & again.

I think what we saw from Russel Wilson & Kaepernick was more like 70% of their offense plus a high off script ability & moderate risk. That got the Seahawks as far as we got & it got the 49ers to the Super Bowl.


All those numbers are made up, but I think it's the best way to describe my thought process & I believe Kubiak would follow a similar process. The main thing I wanted to convey is that Yates already has a real life quantifiable grade (including play offs), where Keenum does not & I think it's going to be really difficult for Keenum to overcome that. It can happen, Russell Wilson did it Last year, but Flynn did not play as much or as well as Yates did so his grade wasn't really as solid.

I'm rooting for Keenum, but I'm also rooting for Tj as long as we get a guy that gives us a chance to go all the way, I don't care which. But it doesn't make sense to me, to throw out what you've already got with Yates for an unknown. Even Kaepernick would never have seen the field if Smith didn't get hurt & Stevie Wonder can see the difference between Smith & Kaepernick.
 
It all comes down to play in the preseason. If Case outplays Yates he should get the backup spot.

If Yates plays better or even, he should get it based on tenure and NFL experience.
 
GoCoogs said:
It all comes down to play in the preseason. If Case outplays Yates he should get the backup spot.

If Yates plays better or even, he should get it based on tenure and NFL experience.
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Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.
 
silvrhand said:
Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.
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Join the conversation - it is about backup not successor.
 
At least we are lucky enough to have a backup QB controversy. Some teams in the NFL don't even have a starting caliber QB, let alone any backups worth a crap.
 
silvrhand said:
Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.

As much as I like them, a real QB needs to be drafted in the next year or two.
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The main knock on his physical ability seem to be his height and arm strength. His arm strength was graded poor at the combine. But he was injured during the combine and did not throw well.

He threw much better at hisUH pro day. For what it's worth, one NFL scout in attendance told UH Blogger Sam Khan Jr. that Keenum had above average arm strength.

As far as height goes, his is not ideal but there have been other successful NFL QBs who were not the tallest guys.
 
SAMURAITEXAN said:
Just got through reading your blog and thanks for info. I now have clearer understanding on what is happening at camp. Glad we have you as TTC member!
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Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.
 
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.
 
DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.
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I'm all for replacing Schaub when the time comes due, but we should have learned by now, that Cutler is fools gold. Schaub has been better & healthier than Cutler since 2006.
 
DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted...
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76Texan said:
What do these QBs have in common: Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Warren Moon, and Kurt Warner?

None of them were drafted.

What about Doug Flutie?
Well, he was drafted in the 11th round (285th overall),
so basically, he was also an UDFA.

Those are pretty good names there, would'nt you say?
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76Texan said:
There have been several more QBs that were undrafted and became starter in the NFL, most notably Jim Zorn, Jake Delhome, Dave Krieg, Jim Hart, and John Kitna.

So, no, I can't agree that Keenum has no shot at all.
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Now, this is not to say I predict Keenum will be a starting NFL QB, it's merely to point out that there has been a fair number of undrafted FAs that went on to very decent to excellent career in the NFL.

Some of them were damn good, and they weren't drafted.
 
DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO

Im not sure who it was but some writer did an early NFL free agent 2014 list and who could potentially land where. They stated Cutler would wind up in Houston if Schaub falters again. I wouldn't give too much credence to this but the Bears haven't even discussed an extension with Cutler and he has history with Kubiak.
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Cutler has no history with Kubiak.
 
Cutler is more of a head case where Matty boy doesn't have the big play instinct and can't keep a play alive to save his life. After the hit he took from Mays last year I do respect his toughness.

Case over Cutler. We all may be suprised
 
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.
 
mmwest said:
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.
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Hey I hear there is a guy available from around here who everyone said had the "it" factor.
 
mmwest said:
Big play not in yds but in getting "it" when we need it and putting in the end zone. You can throw 20+ yd passes all day but still suck if that makes sense.
Just to make it clear ,I'm not a Schaub hater just wish he was more clutch.
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Clutch like Cutler?
 
This is a tired old debate about Schaub. You are either for or against him, but even if your against him you know you have no other option right now. So its a moot point.
 
DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods.
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Some of us are saying we want Keenum to win or lose the BACKUP job on the field. ON. THE. FIELD. Not on some scouting report, not in your head, not in some hack writer's blog, and not on some message board. If he sucks on the field, you won't hear anyone clamoring for Keenum. No one's clamoring for him to be the starter now. We just want to see what he can do in PRESEASON.

One more point regarding the draft situation - just about every time we hear about some QB that got passed over in the draft that eventually becomes something, it's because he got a chance to play. When those kinds of guys don't get a chance to play, you don't know they can't hack it. You DO NOT KNOW. You're taking the word of every talking head, analyst, and draftnik that's repeated hand-me-down info over and over again. But the simple fact is, you don't know for sure that Case Keenum can't play in the NFL until you watch him succeed or fail. To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on. Case Keenum will not likely ever be like any of those guys, but the point is you don't know. None of us do. So some of us just want to watch the guy in PRESEASON.

Perspective. It's a great thing.
 
maddogmrb said:
If you had witnessed the numerous come from behind victories that Keenum led at UH there would be no discussion.
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Ok you are right. College success always guarantees NFL success.

Signed,

Andre Ware, Eric Crouch, JP Losman, Graham Harell, Brady Quinn, David Klingler, Todd Marinivich, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Tim Tebow, Jeff George, David Carr, Joey Harrington, JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, and Ryan Leaf.

:sarcasm:
 
eriadoc said:
To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on.
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don't forget that guy who was stocking shelves, then became Super Bowl MVP.
 
eriadoc said:
Some of us are saying we want Keenum to win or lose the BACKUP job on the field. ON. THE. FIELD. Not on some scouting report, not in your head, not in some hack writer's blog, and not on some message board. If he sucks on the field, you won't hear anyone clamoring for Keenum. No one's clamoring for him to be the starter now. We just want to see what he can do in PRESEASON.

One more point regarding the draft situation - just about every time we hear about some QB that got passed over in the draft that eventually becomes something, it's because he got a chance to play. When those kinds of guys don't get a chance to play, you don't know they can't hack it. You DO NOT KNOW. You're taking the word of every talking head, analyst, and draftnik that's repeated hand-me-down info over and over again. But the simple fact is, you don't know for sure that Case Keenum can't play in the NFL until you watch him succeed or fail. To put that into perspective, we were told guys like Flutie couldn't make it in the NFL. The Chargers gave up on Drew Brees even after he had a chance. Steve Young was given up on. Case Keenum will not likely ever be like any of those guys, but the point is you don't know. None of us do. So some of us just want to watch the guy in PRESEASON.

Perspective. It's a great thing.
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Agree. It sounds like he might get some meaningful playing time in the preseason. If he does, I hope that he performs well and that we carry 3 QBs on the roster. If that happens, maybe he will get another opportunity in the regular season. It's up to him, but I'm pulling for him.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.
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A fan like me living abroad do not get a chance to see the players in real action. So, only info I get through media or from hard core fans like here at TTC. When media starts to hype about your favorite team's player, you tend to get overly excited. Sometimes false information can play with your emotion going up and down and up and down. This is why I try hard not to get overly excited about the information I get from media. I usually confirm information through TTC message board as I believe the most knowledgeable fans are here.

Steph, I appreciate your hard work and look forward to more Texans' insights from you.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Want to emphasize that not everybody sees things the same way. That happens with games too.

But saying "Case Keenum grabs early edge" when he's not taking the vast majority of 2nd team snaps is a fart noises article. Just seeing the headline makes me angry because I think it is affirmatively misleading to people who cannot see most of this themselves.

I'm going to be away from camp next week so I know how it is when you want real news and you get this bleep.
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As you're probably aware, editors often change a headline to grab attention after the writer has submitted the final draft. For this article, do you think the problem is more with the headline or the content?
 
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DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted, plain and simple. If he is the future after Schaub we are royally screwed IMO.
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I'm a Longhorn, but I've done my research on this player.

History has proven that draft status is not a valid disqualifier. Good talent often falls through the cracks for unfair reasons. Of all NFL fanbases, Houston's should appreciate that fact. Here is one of the reasons for Keenum's snubbing:

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

“I strained my hamstring on the second 40,” Keenum said on Monday after his performance at UH’s pro day. “I’m not a track guy or 400-hurdler or haven’t qualified for the Olympics but I think I was trying to at that point, trying to run a 4.3. But strained my hamstring on the second 40 and it kind of put me in a funk. I went over to see the trainers and (quarterbacks) were already warming up throwing. I’m not going to make excuses and I didn’t that day. I said ‘I”m out here, I’m going to throw.’ But it definitely wasn’t me at my best.”
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Link

The other reasons for not being drafted were his size and that he is a system QB. Again, these are not valid disqualifiers.

silvrhand said:
Come on Keenum doesn't have the physical ability to play NFL quarterback, let's please get a real successor to Schaub and not have another backup QB as the heir to our team.
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leebigeztx said:
They can say what they want,but keenam is not a nfl quality qb.
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Where does this come from?

If it's strictly opinion, I'll offer Kubiak's:

“I definitely can because you see what he has physically, how he can throw the football, how he reads defenses, and his command in the huddle. He has all those attributes and I definitely see him being able to play at this level. No doubt about it.”
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If it's his athleticism, here's his Pro Day results:

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.
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If it's his arm strength, here's what he did on Tuesday:

PDS ‏@PatDStat 10m
Case Keenum and Keshawn Martin with a huge reception. 50 yard bomb over Harris. Great coverage but better pass and catch.
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You don't have to put your money on this horse, but at least admit he's a legit contender.
 
amazing80 said:
This is a tired old debate about Schaub. You are either for or against him, but even if your against him you know you have no other option right now. So its a moot point.
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Exactly. Don't care for him all that much. Understand completely that he's not going anywhere short of catastrophic injury (which I would not wish on anyone) so I hope he succeeds despite my doubts.
 
Brisco_County said:
I'm a Longhorn, but I've done my research on this player.

You don't have to put your money on this horse, but at least admit he's a legit contender.
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Great post and presentation. I'm like many others here as in I can't wait to see what he does in PS games. I'm also looking to see if TJ takes a major step forward. I'm of the opinion that if TJ doesn't show marked improvement his days are numbered. After reading the quote where Kubiak said that he needed to throw it better but at the same time he's said TJ's having a good camp.

I think preseason will tell us a whole lot.
 
DX-TEX said:
Only people who want Keenum are bloated Texans homers and Red Bloods. If the guy was sooooo damn good he would have been drafted.
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Sometimes circumstances cause players to become overlooked by the entire league, as in Arian Foster, who as a Texan still had to work pretty hard and get a break to get his opportunity. So, your statement is simply wrong.

Some people have already made up their minds that Keenum can't play in this league. Others simply want to see him have an opportunity now that Kubiak says that he has become more comfortable and confident in the system.
 
Brisco_County said:
As you're probably aware, editors often change a headline to grab attention after the writer has submitted the final draft. For this article, do you think the problem is more with the headline or the content?
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The headline is wildly inaccurate.

The article is a overly fawning pile of ****.

Yes, Case Keenum has improve from last year because he was horrible last year. And yes, Kubiak is pushing TJ to be better because he wants to create a sense of competition and urgency.

The article sounds like it was written by his dad or agent or something.
 
BullBlitz said:
Some people have already made up their minds that Keenum can't play in this league. Others simply want to see him have an opportunity now that Kubiak says that he has become more comfortable and confident in the system.
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And others are working on his HOF bust already.

:toropalm:
 
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