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Carr's Strengths/Weaknesses

eriadoc

eriadoc

Texan-American
I see so many Carr-bashing threads out there that I wanted to say something. Most things on this site seem to be overblown and the Carr issue is no different, but it's still worth addressing. People are coming to judgment way too quickly on Carr, when I will say right now that I don't think ANY other QB (Manning, Pepper, whoever) would have done any better in the same situation for the past 3 years. Think about this - what are Carr's strengths and weaknesses? I'll put them down as I see it.

Arm Strength - Strength. I don't think there are many in the league that can claim any better.

Mobility - Strength. Aside from Vick, Pepper, and McNabb, Carr is probably the best.

Accuracy - Strength. This is where some will differ, but I will simply point out that Carr seldom overthrows or underthrows his receivers. He may miss altogether on a miscommunicated route, but that falls as much on the WR as Carr. Carr can thread in some beautiful passes and more often than not, hits his WR square in the hands. Completion % doesn't tell the true story, although Carr's was certainly respectable last year. I don't consider McNabb to be a very accurate passer, for instance, even though he completed something like 67% of his passes last season. Go back and watch some tapes (heck, the Super Bowl) of McNabb and see how many times he made completions, but put the ball in a spot that hampered his receiver from making a better play. Just an observation.

Toughness - Strength. I don't think anyone here can honestly say to themselves that Carr is not one of the toughest in the game.

Leadership - Weakness. I hesitate to put weakness here, because I really believe that everyone on that team respects him and he has command of the huddle. But he needs to stop letting his emotions get the better of him in games, IMO.

Field Vision - Weakness. I think everyone will agree this is Carr's primary weakness. I will say, however, that he's not really been given a chance to survey the field and learn to read defenses as well as we fans would like. I see people complain about Carr dropping back in the pocket and getting "happy feet" like he thinks he's about to be hit. Well, Pavlov's Theory - he IS about to be hit. He's been trained.

Decision-making - Strength. Here again, some will disagree with me, but think about it. Carr makes sound decisions with the football. He gets out of bounds, throws it away, what have you. He usually doesn't try to force the action too much. Maybe he should, but HE HAS BEEN COACHED not to. So by listening to his coaches, he is doing his job. I remember in Year One he took criticism for not dumping off, not throwing it away, not sliding, etc. He has learned these things. I saw in another thread someone said they didn't have a problem with Carr's decision-making, but rather his quick decisions. That may be a good observation, but in reality, he has to make quicker decisions than most other QBs in the NFL.

Anyway, I hope this will stimulate some rational discussion and counterpoints. I totally agree that Carr is not where we want him to be, but neither is the team. I reiterate my earlier statement - I don't think that ANY quarterback in the NFL would have done any better if they'd been put on this team as a rookie in the same situation - Manning, Pepper, McNabb, you name it.
 
good post. as you put, i'm one who will disagree on a couple main points, those being accuracy and decision making. those are both reasons why i'm such a big advocate for derrick armstrong and billy miller. these guys were able to compensate for those weaknesses with their abilities to corral his strengths (arguably the second strongest right arm in the nfl, and mobility), and adjust to his weaknesses by having great hands making the catch on less than perfect throws and moving in synch with carr coming out of the pocket. these resulting in less active decision making and more of a reaction based on what's infront of him, also giving him someone to throw to despite coverage because they'll get their hands around it. i'm a carr fan, and despite his obvious and possibly detrimental flaws, he's the best we've got and has the talents (once adjusted) to be a 10+ game winner.
 
One more point (your post mad eme think of it) - Carr needs to develop a sense for when to take something off that pass. He will learn touch in time, I'm sure.

I have gone back and watched most of the Texans' games over the past month or so and that is where I really decided that his accuracy is pretty darn good. Go back and watch your old DVD/tapes/whatever and you'll find far fewer instances of poor accuracy than you'd think.
 
Bottom line...his decision making and leadership are poor. No amount of physical gifts can overcome the lack of those two things. Take that for what you will.
 
touch is an easy weakness, i dont think anyone's going to argue that. and that falls under the umbrella of what i think the players mentioned are able to do to corral carr's strength (since they allow him to throw 120mph rockets without worry).

the accuracy point i think is easy to argue on both sides however. the difference is between "catchable" and hitting receivers in the hands mid-route. brady and manning epitomize accuracy because even i could catch their passes during a slant because they'd hit me in the hands. carr's throws are on target, but more often than not are going to require adjustment and an ability to shield defenders to make the catch. (i'm discrediting 90% of DD's catches in this scenario ... since he doesnt have a defender within 5 yards most of the time).

i have yet to even attempt to record texans games though, so instant replay is deffinately not on my side ... just going by what i've seen on the fly & recollection. if you've got games or portions possible to share please message me though.
 
Master Po said:
Bottom line...his decision making and leadership are piss, piss poor. No amount of physical gifts can overcome the lack of those two things. Take that for what you will.
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i'm critical of everything carr does, however leadership is something that he's been perfect on so far. there isnt a player on offense that doesnt look to carr to lead them in the right direction. his idol is favre and if anything, leadership is the trait that he's demonstrated more than anything favre'ish.
 
I'm a big fan of Carr myself... but I feel sorry for him, looks like another frustrating year, hope he stays healthy for next year.
 
Carr's biggest weakness is touch on the ball, like Farve, he throws a dart. It took Farve a few years to develop some touch on the ball to let the recievers make catches instead of darting it off their hands all the time.
 
The simple fact is that if we got a better O-Line then Carr would probably not have as meany weaknesses. Therefore I cannot concider them his weaknesses. I can only look at his faults as his misfortunes.
 
Carr's biggest weaknesses:

1) Weak O-line

2) Corey Bradford :)

3) The touch thing is a good point.

4) Lack of experience with some of the new things he and the receivers are doing on the field.

5) The timing patterns are still not right either.

The other assumed weaknesses may be true, at least partially, but cannot be proven until we at least fix numbers 1 and 2. What if they are NEVER fixed while Carr is still the QB? The answer is that we will never be able to judge him. I think Carr may leave this team in the next year or two if there is not significant improvement in the protection. I also think that this team does a really half-butt, ****** effort at game-planning for preseason games and A LOT of people are over-reacting to that.

We don't need to get rid of the ball faster. We need to hold it LONGER and hit Mathis 60 f'ing yards down field. THAT will get the 4 freaking man coverage off of AJ. Don't hold your breathe, but it WILL happen some day.

For now, maybe we can hit Gaffney 10 yds. down field--a BUNCH of times. :texflag:
 
I agree with most of your takes on Carr except decision making. I think it is neither a strength nor a weakness. At times he makes very sound decisions. At times, however, he holds onto the ball too long and that has helped attribute to a small percentage of his sacks. I think when he is overly emotional, he tends to make even more poor decisions. Otherwise, I think you hit the nail on the head.
 
I agree with you for the most part. Toughness is a hard thing to measure. anyone who has played sports whether it was HS, college or Pro knows theare are two flavors - physical and mental. There is no question on his physical toughness, in my book, it is the mental toughness that concerns me.

Once again this is not measureable, it is a feel type of thing that you get by watching all of the games and how a player conducts themselves in their reads, actions, verbal and non verbal communication and how other players react to that person.

I think he has it based off of his interviews, his teamamtes interviews and the litany of past situations where you just know the guy is A+ as a person. I just have not seen the total package (skills+toughness+physical atrributes) transfer to the field over a course of games. He has it, we need just need him to get on a run and experience how good he can be.
 
Honestly, Carr is strong in most areas. The problem is, the ones that he's weak in all tie together at unfortunate times.

I see them ALL being positive EXCEPT:

A) Clock awareness - Didn't see this up there earlier. While some of this falls on the shoulders of the coaching staff, ultimately, it's the QB's responsibility to get the snap off on time. Carr will never be the audible caller that P. Manning is, but he doesn't have to be. Carr is still too easily confused by disguised coverages that he audibles into a WORSE play than the one originally called. If you don't have the time, run the play as called or call a timeout.

B) Field Vision - Once again, this isn't all Carr's fault. When you've got almost no time to throw, you tend to start taking shortcuts. Carr simply doesn't do a good job of "looking off" defenders and following his progressions. He had his "comfort level" set in the days he was running for his life every play, this has resulted in mostly short dump-off passes.

C) Pocket Presence - Carr tends to evade a rush only one way...running to his right. While that's natural for a right-hander, there's an issue if the opposing defense knows it will almost NEVER vary. This is a product (again) of his first year running for his life. Even as bad as his protection has been at times, he almost NEVER steps up into the pocket, even when such a space is present. He sees the rushers peripherally, scrambles when it isn't always necessary, and doesn't trust that the line will force them "out and around" as Pass-Protection schemes are designed to do.
 
disaacks3 said:
Honestly, Carr is strong in most areas. The problem is, the ones that he's weak in all tie together at unfortunate times.

I see them ALL being positive EXCEPT:

A) Clock awareness - Didn't see this up there earlier. While some of this falls on the shoulders of the coaching staff, ultimately, it's the QB's responsibility to get the snap off on time. Carr will never be the audible caller that P. Manning is, but he doesn't have to be. Carr is still too easily confused by disguised coverages that he audibles into a WORSE play than the one originally called. If you don't have the time, run the play as called or call a timeout.

B) Field Vision - Once again, this isn't all Carr's fault. When you've got almost no time to throw, you tend to start taking shortcuts. Carr simply doesn't do a good job of "looking off" defenders and following his progressions. He had his "comfort level" set in the days he was running for his life every play, this has resulted in mostly short dump-off passes.

C) Pocket Presence - Carr tends to evade a rush only one way...running to his right. While that's natural for a right-hander, there's an issue if the opposing defense knows it will almost NEVER vary. This is a product (again) of his first year running for his life. Even as bad as his protection has been at times, he almost NEVER steps up into the pocket, even when such a space is present. He sees the rushers peripherally, scrambles when it isn't always necessary, and doesn't trust that the line will force them "out and around" as Pass-Protection schemes are designed to do.
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good take
 
"I am concerned," Carr said. "I know we can take care of it, but I would feel a lot better if we had done that tonight (Sept. 1). "It is hard to be confident when you don't see that out on the field. I need to see a prepared team with higher standards than I saw."

..."see a prepared team"...so how far can Capers bring the team in 10
days?...and "higher standards"!!! Carr is not comfortable with what he is
seeing around him and it is Capers job to straighten this out--a band aid will not work now. After 3 years and all the changes to the team, this state-
ment by our franchised QB is more than a wake-up call. Even if we lose
this game, it's going to be a reflection on Caper's abilty as a head coach on
'how' we lose. If we win, a lot of questions will 'wash' away... :um:
 
Why do you think his decison making is so poor? The guy threw 14 interceptions... by far one of the lowest totals of any starter! Granted, he only had 16 touchdowns, but DD had about 13, most of those coming form runs within 5 yards of the goal-line. If the Texans were like the Colts and wanted to pass form within the red-zone, Carr would probably have closer to 25 TD's. Also, the often used argument that he locks on AJ then dumps it off to DD is flawed. Johnson had 79 catches last season. About 15-20 of those were the little WR screen that is a pre-snap read and he is not even supposed to look at anyone else, just snap and throw. That leaves about 60 catches in 16 games, does that really seem like he is forcing it to AJ everytime?
MEanwhile, Johnson is the primary read on about half the pass plays, that means that almost half the time he is supposed to look at someone else before AJ, than dump off to DD. Gaffney ended last season with about 45 catches and 600 yds, this while not consitently starting as a #2 reciver. Should he start 16 games in a season at that pace, he would probably be closer to 65 catches and 800- 900 yds.

Does havning two recivers close to 1,000 yds seem like bad decision making to you?
 
In a nutshell....

Carr's strengths: He's marginally better than Ryan Leaf

Weaknesses: He's soon to join legendary names like Rick Mirer, Cade Mcnown, Heath Shuler and Akili Smith :bomb:
 
You forget about McNair, Plummer, Brady (underrated mobility) Roethlisberger, and Aaron Brooks
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I did forget about Brooks. I don't rank any of the others you listed better than Carr in that department.
 
A lot of times, Carr only had time to see the first read and that was it. If the first read (whether Johnson or somebody else [Bradford]--who never was open, bye the way) wasn't open, he dumped it to DD, which happened A LOT. It's not that he was zoned in to one receiver. He just felt serious pressure every time he even thought about looking to the second read, let alone any other one beside DD, who would always be open in the backfield. Oh, and it's not like Bruener is out there wide open screaming, "Touchdown, right here!" We need to give Carr some pass protection. Of course, Bruener stayed home and blocked mostly, I'm sure.
 
David Carr is the greatest he's a sure fire hall of famer lol now i just sound like all the other homers in this message boards lol. he's strentgh are that he has a great role model to follow out of freno state trent the great dilfer but carr will never even be half the QB trent is so lets just bomb this season and get ready to draft matt LionHeart oh it even sounds good im sorry for venting guys but david carr just sucks and may be yall will see it after this performance. :texflag:
 
I have sit back and watch david carr have bad stats for 3 years and this is possibly the 4th year, face it he's not a good quarterback he makes the worst decisions i seen a quarterback make, he has the same stats as joey harrington and you can't use the expansion team excuse cuz i believe kerry collins was in the same situation we need a new quarterback, Tony Banks can do better then he's doing
 
NJTexanFan said:
I have sit back and watch david carr have bad stats for 3 years and this is possibly the 4th year, face it he's not a good quarterback he makes the worst decisions i seen a quarterback make, he has the same stats as joey harrington and you can't use the expansion team excuse cuz i believe kerry collins was in the same situation we need a new quarterback, Tony Banks can do better then he's doing
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The Panthers went a different route than the Texans and loaded up with veterans around Collins. Completely different scenario.

Carr had an 83.5 rating last year to 77.5 for Harrington. He's ahead by about the same margin in terms of career rating compared to Harrington. How those are the "same stats" I'd like to understand.
 
david carr
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 47 6 83.5

Joey
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate

16 16 489 274 56.0 3047 6.23 62 19 12 36/196 43 4 77.5
look at td to interception ration :yahoo:
 
You've got to be kidding me. You still think it's Carrs fault? That is too funny. He pings a straight dart off of Gaffney's shoulder who wasn't even looking for the ball at all. That is hilarious. A perfect strike at him and its Carrs fault. He was under constant pressure and it's Carr's fault. This is a joke.
 
Vinny said:
It's what is under the hair that is the problem.
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We need to start a FIRE VINNY thread too................. You've never liked Carr from day 1 Vinny. But you won't admit it. There is nothing wrong with Carr that a good QB coach and good OC couldn't fix. There are many teams in the NFL that would love to have Carr. I would even say Sam at Buffalo would love to have Carr. People know that Carr has heart and capability, but he's on a ball club that's incapable of using his talents. Vinny get off his back and on to the backs of the coaches. They are the problem not the players and I have been saying that for a long time. This team is going nowhere until the coaches are gone. We need to get rid of every last coach on this ball club. Its over, its done, you have seen the results of one year of thinking how to improve the O-line and the offense. You got a net zero year of thought.........................
 
Ibar_Harry said:
We need to start a FIRE VINNY thread too................. You've never liked Carr from day 1 Vinny. But you won't admit it. There is nothing wrong with Carr that a good QB coach and good OC couldn't fix. There are many teams in the NFL that would love to have Carr. I would even say Sam at Buffalo would love to have Carr. People know that Carr has heart and capability, but he's on a ball club that's incable of using his talents. Vinny get off his back and on to the backs of the coaches. They are the problem not the players and I have been saying that for a long time. This team is going nowhere until the coaches are gone. We need to get rid of every last coach on this ball club. Its over, its done, you have seen the results of one year of thinking how to improve the O-line and the offense. You got a net zero year of thought.........................
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Fire me if you want. The pay is lousy. I just talk football. If I think the QB play is bad I say it. Simple stuff.
 
SESupergenius said:
You've got to be kidding me. You still think it's Carrs fault? That is too funny. He pings a straight dart off of Gaffney's shoulder who wasn't even looking for the ball at all. That is hilarious. A perfect strike at him and its Carrs fault. He was under constant pressure and it's Carr's fault. This is a joke.
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A joke was the pass that Carr rolled out to his left and bounced the ball roughly 5 yards from AJ
 
Ibar_Harry said:
get off his back and on to the backs of the coaches. They are the problem not the players and I have been saying that for a long time.
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Hey after today, the coaches certainly gave some fodder to the fire the coaches people, but you need to get off Carr's jock. He played miserably today, as he played miserably in the last two games of the pre-season. He shares in the blame for this debacle.
 
Vinny said:
Fire me if you want. The pay is lousy. I just talk football. If I think the QB play is bad I say it. Simple stuff.
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Yes, Vinny but you refuse to say you have been on Carr's case since day 1 and you seem to like the coaches. We have a fundamental disagreement on what the problem is. I would hope you would at least say Carr didn't give up today. He fought to the end. He ran the ball. How much of the offense was generated by Carr's runs. Much of his offense was negated by sacks. Most of what we had was because of Carr. The guy gives his all, but if you telegraph to the other team( OC ) what you are going to do all the time what do you expect? I don't think you are capable of being critical of the coaching staff. Please Vinny with all do respect. Open your eyes to the problem at hand.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
I would hope you would at least say Carr didn't give up today. He fought to the end. He ran the ball.
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BS--he didn't go after the fumble, he didn't finish his run to get a 1st down, he didn't huddle the O on the sideline and lead. He wasn't the only problem today, but he was a big problem.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
We need to start a FIRE VINNY thread too................. You've never liked Carr from day 1 Vinny. But you won't admit it. There is nothing wrong with Carr that a good QB coach and good OC couldn't fix. There are many teams in the NFL that would love to have Carr. I would even say Sam at Buffalo would love to have Carr. People know that Carr has heart and capability, but he's on a ball club that's incapable of using his talents. Vinny get off his back and on to the backs of the coaches. They are the problem not the players and I have been saying that for a long time. This team is going nowhere until the coaches are gone. We need to get rid of every last coach on this ball club. Its over, its done, you have seen the results of one year of thinking how to improve the O-line and the offense. You got a net zero year of thought.........................
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Line wasn't stellar but give me a break, Carr did nothing today. He threw a nice ball to Gaffney but it's bad news when your best pass isn't even a completion.
 
Who designed all of the plays to go to AJ this year? Who said they had to get AJ more in the offense this year? Who said they needed another receiver to help AJ. If the OC and the coach are saying we are designing the offense around AJ what would you expect your QB to do? Unfortunately we had a player out today that might have changed some of this and that was Mathis. However, there is not another receiver that is stepping up including Gaffny. I have said from the beginning he would not be ready at the start of the season and I think that is the case. He's not ready, because he could not practice. I don't think he will be effective until the middle of the season if that. We simply cut the wrong players offensively, but that's my opinion.................
 
Ibar_Harry said:
Yes, Vinny but you refuse to say you have been on Carr's case since day 1 and you seem to like the coaches. We have a fundamental disagreement on what the problem is. I would hope you would at least say Carr didn't give up today. He fought to the end. He ran the ball. How much of the offense was generated by Carr's runs. Much of his offense was negated by sacks. Most of what we had was because of Carr. The guy gives his all, but if you telegraph to the other team( OC ) what you are going to do all the time what do you expect? I don't think you are capable of being critical of the coaching staff. Please Vinny with all do respect. Open your eyes to the problem at hand.
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wow.. yes Carr can run. What I saw today is the same I saw the last 3 years.. He locks onto receivers, and doesn't spread the ball around consistantly.. It is either 1st option or DD... I honestly don't think he reads defenses well .. Blame that on the OL and the time he isn't given.. . Carr can make the throws and we have seen it, but He looks lost at times
 
Vinny said:
That's considered "one pass". Carr had a wretched day. Hard to defend it.
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He layed one right into Bradfords hands, did you forget that one too? Ever see any seperation from Gaffney? Did you see Murphy no go after a nice lob? What game are you watching?
 
infantrycak said:
BS--he didn't go after the fumble, he didn't finish his run to get a 1st down, he didn't huddle the O on the sideline and lead. He wasn't the only problem today, but he was a big problem.
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Yea i saw him on his butt too. They had tremendous pressure up the middle. Not a leader? He made a fantastic reach for our only TD. It's been proven time and time again, you give him time to throw and he makes plays.
 
Carr makes slow decisions. Even the best lines you usually only have 5-6 seconds on a given play and when Carr rushes his decision making, bad things seem to result. On the first pick, Wade and Wiegert both get used and Carr tries to escape. I think he can only focus on one thing at a time, i.e. avoiding the rush and isn't able to locate receivers at the same time. If you're going to be a good QB you have to be better at split-second multi-tasking.
 
Any of you ever notice how our recievers usually have someone within a step of them as the ball arrives but our opponents recievers always seem to catch the ball in space with nobody around them?

I'm curious as to why that is. Does our defense stink or is it our offense that stinks?
 
SESupergenius said:
He layed one right into Bradfords hands, did you forget that one too? Ever see any seperation from Gaffney? Did you see Murphy no go after a nice lob? What game are you watching?
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I kind of expect a NFL QB to get at least a few passes in the WR's hands. Yeah, kudos for a handfull of nice passes.
 
Hervoyel said:
Any of you ever notice how our recievers usually have someone within a step of them as the ball arrives but our opponents recievers always seem to catch the ball in space with nobody around them?

I'm curious as to why that is. Does our defense stink or is it our offense that stinks?
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It could have a lot to do with Carr waiting too long to throw it. You have to anticipate the receiver being open much of the time and Carr either forces it or needs someone to be wide open for about 10 yards in each direction. He either doesn't trust the receivers and the routes they are running or just, like I said before is too slow in his decision making.
 
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