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Carr's Numbers

xtruroyaltyx said:
You all can twist the stats all you want to...Vick's passing numbers aren't as high as some others because like I said...the falcons are dead last in attempts/game...But his completion percentage is relatively close to some of the QB's in the leauge who you all consider to be elite passers...BUT that wasn't the point...I know Vick isn't a top notched passer...My point was that he can pass well enough to keep defenses honest...He passes well enough to keep his offense moving......He passes well enough to Win....But You all turned it into a passing argument...THAT wasn't the point....I was talking about QB's Helping their teams Win and If you want to deny that Vick is top 12 at that go ahead....Im not going to argue with any of you about that....
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You want to know why Vicks numbers don't correlate to his teams victories? Step up to the chalkboard son and I'll give you a little lesson, it's called defense. The Falcons have a top 10 defense. This is why they have a good record, not because of Vick. Your homework assignments will be due next week class.
 
Considering we have NO run game, thus making it harder to air it out, being more susceptible to sacks and INTs....Carr's doing a good job. I won't praise him too much. I want to see more out of him, but as I mentioned, considering those factors....he's doing good. If those factors were eliminated, he'd be doing better IMHO. I give the guy kudos on a job well done. You really can't do much without a run game and a questionable O-line that's been dinged up this early in the season.

If he can keep this up, next year looks very promising depending on what comes to be at the RB position and the run game.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
ATL attmepts the fewest passes per game...Less than any other team in the NFL...

Completion percentage is the word of the day...
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Well then you said both halves--they don't pass often because they don't have to but when they do Vick has a very poor completion %.
 
SESupergenius said:
You want to know why Vicks numbers don't correlate to his teams victories? Step up to the chalkboard son and I'll give you a little lesson, it's called defense. The Falcons have a top 10 defense. This is why they have a good record, not because of Vick. Your homework assignments will be due next week class.
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How'd I know youd disagree with me....

So because They have a good defense that garauntees them wins...

They have played Carolina and Tampa...Two teams with good defenses as well...

In the Carolina game Delhomme attempted almost twenty more passes than Vick and ammassed a whopping 40 yards more....whoopie!!!

Try again....
 
infantrycak said:
Well then you said both halves--they don't pass often because they don't have to but when they do Vick has a very poor completion %.
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Well if thats poor....Bledsoe, Plummer, Brady,Favre, McNair aren't far behind....and he is ahead of Roethelisberger...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
They have played Carolina and Tampa...Two teams with good defenses as well...

In the Carolina game Delhomme attempted almost twenty more passes than Vick and ammassed a whopping 40 yards more....whoopie!!!

Try again....
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LOL, Carolina's defense is ranked 22, Tampa Bays is ranked 19th. I guess that is good in your world. We seem to have major differences in what you call "good", so yes, I tend to disagree with you. Now run along students.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Well if thats poor....Bledsoe, Plummer, Brady,Favre, McNair aren't far behind....and he is ahead of Roethelisberger...
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C'mon--you know outside of this discussion 50% is very poor and the jump from 50% to 60% isn't some small gap. 60% is hitting a benchmark--50% is hitting the bench unless you are in an obvious slump or can run like Vick.
 
infantrycak said:
He is #1 on my list at his position--RB who sometimes throws the ball.
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:thumbup Agreed. I would rather have Charlie Frye than Mike Vick any day of the week.

I have to say, though.... Vick is awesome on Madden. I guess that is just because I can make his passing accuracy better just by playing good. Too bad it won't happen like that in real life.

P.S. - David rocks. I've said it for years....
 
People...I know Vick isn't an elite passer...No ish sherlock.....

The discussion was QB's who help THEIR teams win...So therefore you can't say well if the Falcons had...(fill in the blank)...That is totally irrelevant...And you can't prove that argument...That is a hypothetical...
 
SESupergenius said:
LOL, Carolina's defense is ranked 22, Tampa Bays is ranked 19th. I guess that is good in your world. We seem to have major differences in what you call "good", so yes, I tend to disagree with you. Now run along students.
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And THE Oakland Raiders are ranked 9th....Way to use stats to back up your point...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
People...I know Vick isn't an elite passer...No ish sherlock.....

The discussion was QB's who help THEIR teams win...So therefore you can't say well if the Falcons had...(fill in the blank)...That is totally irrelevant...And you can't prove that argument...That is a hypothetical...
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IMO, I Think they'd win more in the long run if they started Schaub.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
People...I know Vick isn't an elite passer...No ish sherlock.....

The discussion was QB's who help THEIR teams win...So therefore you can't say well if the Falcons had...(fill in the blank)...That is totally irrelevant...And you can't prove that argument...That is a hypothetical...
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If you are trying to say that Mike Vick is a typical Falcon, I would agree. J. Mora has done an awesome job finding the fastest guys in the league to put into that defense and offense. Vick is a speedy dude.

As far as leadership, personal life and QB ability go.... I would choose his backup... Matt Schaub. I think he would play so much better than Vick and do a lot more for that team. He has proved it, too.
 
infantrycak said:
C'mon--you know outside of this discussion 50% is very poor and the jump from 50% to 60% isn't some small gap. 60% is hitting a benchmark--50% is hitting the bench unless you are in an obvious slump or can run like Vick.
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Not one of the QB's that I named have 60% completion %...McNabb doesn't even have 60% completion...not far from it with 59%....But on the list I named the highest completion % is 57%....
 
TexansLucky13 said:
If you are trying to say that Mike Vick is a typical Falcon, I would agree. J. Mora has done an awesome job finding the fastest guys in the league to put into that defense and offense. Vick is a speedy dude.

As far as leadership, personal life and QB ability go.... I would choose his backup... Matt Schaub. I think he would play so much better than Vick and do a lot more for that team. He has proved it, too.
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I agree. If given the reps he looks like he'd be a very capable passer. There's no amount of running that can substitute for a good passing game.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
You all can twist the stats all you want to...Vick's passing numbers aren't as high as some others because like I said...the falcons are dead last in attempts/game...But his completion percentage is relatively close to some of the QB's in the leauge who you all consider to be elite passers...BUT that wasn't the point...I know Vick isn't a top notched passer...My point was that he can pass well enough to keep defenses honest...He passes well enough to keep his offense moving......He passes well enough to Win....But You all turned it into a passing argument...THAT wasn't the point....I was talking about QB's Helping their teams Win and If you want to deny that Vick is top 12 at that go ahead....Im not going to argue with any of you about that....
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Bottom line, with Vick in the line up, the Falcons are a play-off contender. Without him, they look like the Cardinals. Maybe they'll make a run....... maybe we spoke too soon.

But I would still have a hard time putting Vick on any top ten QB list. He may very well be the best player in the game, but we all have a definition of what a QB is in the NFL. Winning games or not, Vick doesn't fit that description.

And while I enjoy watching the kid play, I wouldn't trade last years David Carr for him.
 
Mr teX said:
IMO, I Think they'd win more in the long run if they started Schaub.
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TexansLucky13 said:
I would choose his backup... Matt Schaub. I think he would play so much better than Vick and do a lot more for that team. He has proved it, too.
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Like I said...Both of you are stating what if's...coulda...shoulda...woulda....I think The Texans would win more if we had Peyton Mannin...Or McNabb...by the way neither are close to Carrs completion %.......

Your not saying much....I think the Texans Would Win if we had everybody on the colts...

See you can do that all day...doesn't mean anything....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Like I said...Both of you are stating what if's...coulda...shoulda...woulda....I think The Texans would win more if we had Peyton Mannin...Or McNabb...by the way neither are close to Carrs completion %.......

Your not saying much....I think the Texans Would Win if we had everybody on the colts...

See you can do that all day...doesn't mean anything....
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The diff. is that the falcons actually have this kid on their roster & IMO he's already proven he is a more capable passer than Vick. Stop over-simplifying things.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
And THE Oakland Raiders are ranked 9th....Way to use stats to back up your point...
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Here is another stat. Tampa Bay is 0-3, Carolina is 2-2, thats 2-5, losing records. Vick did well against teams with losing records and below average defenses, this is just a fact.
 
thunderkyss said:
Bottom line, with Vick in the line up, the Falcons are a play-off contender. Without him, they look like the Cardinals.
But I would still have a hard time putting Vick on any top ten QB list. He may very well be the best player in the game, but we all have a definition of what a QB is in the NFL. Winning games or not, Vick doesn't fit that description.
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Passer wise...no he isn't top ten...he isn't even top 32...there are backups that pass better than Vick...

But once again that wasn't the point...

The point was How Vick's Skill set relates to the Falcons....and how they Win...

Maybe I can make this more clear...

Delhomme is a better QB than Vick....Brett Favre is a better QB than Vick...and if they were on the Falcons I even think they'd be better...

But right now...Vick is doing more for his team than Delhomme or Favre are doing for their respective teams....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Like I said...Both of you are stating what if's...coulda...shoulda...woulda....I think The Texans would win more if we had Peyton Mannin...Or McNabb...by the way neither are close to Carrs completion %.......

Your not saying much....I think the Texans Would Win if we had everybody on the colts...

See you can do that all day...doesn't mean anything....
Click to expand...

I am arguing with the same amount of substance that you are.

You say that Vick does "so much" for that team. Prove it! Show me some FACTS that prove that. The only facts we have are that Vick has 330 rushing yards and below average passing stats.

My argument is that I "believe" that Schaub would be a better QB than Vick. Your argument is that you "believe" Vick is doing something for that team other than being a scrambling below-average QB. Describe your argument, please.
 
SESupergenius said:
Here is another stat. Tampa Bay is 0-3, Carolina is 2-2, thats 2-5, losing records. Vick did well against teams with losing records and below average defenses, this is just a fact.
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LMAO!!! Every team that has a winning record right now at some point beat a bad team smart arse...What's your point???
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Your arguments are based on hyptheticals and guesses....Lets talk about facts....What you are saying means that Carr could take Peytons spot, and the colts would actually be better....PUHHHLEEEEZZZ......Is Vick not part of the running game....You all are severely missing the boat....You all keep talking about Vick as if he is a seperate entitiy from his team, and his teams stats.....
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Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be one of your strengths. I don't know where you even began to infer that I was stating Carr replacing Manning would make the Colts better. We are speaking in hypotheticals and opinions to begin with since your assertion that Vick played a big part in the Falcons' winning certainly isn't backed up by his league basement passing numbers.

In any event you have admitted before that you enjoy perpetuating arguments and it seems clear to me that that is all you are doing here. If anyone else has a question or a comment re: my post then feel free to submit it.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
I am arguing with the same amount of substance that you are.

You say that Vick does "so much" for that team. Prove it! Show me some FACTS that prove that. The only facts we have are that Vick has 330 rushing yards and below average QB stats.

My argument is that I "believe" that Schaub would be a better QB than Vick. Your argument is that you "believe" Vick is doing something for that team other than being a scrambling below-average QB. Describe your argument, please.
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No you can just go back and read the rest of the thread...and you will see I answered everything you just stated....next....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
LMAO!!! Every team that has a winning record right now at some point beat a bad team smart arse...What's your point???
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sorry, I can't help you anymore, I've put the smackdown on you with facts, you've got nothing really.

Oh, and guess which team has the 3rd best RB in the league right now? You guessed it class, the Atlanta Falcons. Yet another reason the Falcons are doing well, not because of Vick.
 
jerek said:
Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be one of your strengths. I don't know where you even began to infer that I was stating Carr replacing Manning would make the Colts better. We are speaking in hypotheticals to begin with since your assertion that Vick played a big part in the Falcons' winning certainly isn't backed up by his stats.

In any event you have admitted before that you enjoy perpetuating arguments and it seems clear to me that that is all you are doing here. If anyone else has a question or a comment re: my post then feel free to submit it.
Click to expand...

Jerek if you want to talk smack and get personal I can just PM you my number and we can have at it...I didn't say anything personal towards you and everything has been football related...I don't care to discuss anything otherwise...thankyou...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
No you can just go back and read the rest of the thread...and you will see I answered everything you just stated....next....
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I re-read everything and all I found was a bunch of nothing. You have not tried to argue any point at all. All you do is defend Vicks below-average stats.

I ask again.... describe your argument. I am tired of reading nothing but hogwash.
 
Frills said:
Talking about statistics only

I cut Vick on my fantasy team and now rotate Grossman, Frye, and Carr based on matchups. Vick will have an awesome game, then will kill you the next, add in the fact he has yet to complete season he doesn't make the top 10
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Breaking news from ESPN...

Mora the Junior has just decided to release Michael Vick due to the overwhleming consensus that Vick is not a good fantasy quarterback week to week.

How does someone's fantasy value weigh into this discussion?

Vick is a different type of QB and the fact that Atlanta averages 234 yards per game on the ground is a huge testament to the type of game they try and play. Grind it out, eat up clock and yardage. It is fantastic when it works, but tough to come from behind... that is who the Atlanta Falcons have defined themselves to be as a football team...

Vick has an impressive W-L and is a valuable QB, just not the prototype QB.
 
SESupergenius said:
sorry, I can't help you anymore, I've put the smackdown on you with facts, you've got nothing really.

Oh, and guess which team has the 3rd best RB in the league right now? You guessed it class, the Atlanta Falcons. Yet another reason the Falcons are doing well, not because of Vick.
Click to expand...

I never once said that the Falcons are winning BECAUSE of any specific player....so if thats what you took it as...that was your first mistake...I was comparing and contrasting what Vick does for his team compared to how other QB's are helping their teams...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
But right now...Vick is doing more for his team than Delhomme or Favre are doing for their respective teams....
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Hey, I'm with you, and I understand exactly what you are saying. You are absolutely correct. & anyone thinking Shaub would do better than Vick, needs to apply for a job with several teams this coming offseason, since they are better talent scouts than DanReeves & the little Mora guy.

The only thing I'm not with you on, is putting him on the top ten QB list. You pretty much have to throw away every measurable we have, and have used for years when "measuring" QBs, and use nothing but Wins....... to judge QBs, when there is more to a teams W-L record than who their QB is.

Shaub is a good example of that. Yeah, he's got skills, and he can play the game. But that team was built to run, from QB to WR..... Shaub will not, and has not been as successfull as Vick on the same team.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Jerek if you want to talk smack and get personal I can just PM you my number and we can have at it...I didn't say anything personal towards you and everything has been football related...I don't care to discuss anything otherwise...thankyou...
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Lighten up. I'll let this one go for now as it's going nowhere. No hard feelings; I'd make it a lot more emphatic if I meant any ill will toward you or anyone else here.
 
TexansLucky13 said:
I re-read everything and all I found was a bunch of nothing. You have not tried to argue any point at all. All you do is defend Vicks below-average stats.

I ask again.... describe your argument. I am tired of reading nothing but hogwash.
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Well that's not really my problem...Im not going to restate what I've already said...and I don't even know what you are arguing with me about...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
.I was comparing and contrasting what Vick does for his team compared to how other QB's are helping their teams...
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And that is why is his not a top 10 QB, he has a great defense and a great running game behind him, yet his passing stats aren't great. He runs good though, but has as many TD's as Carr in the running game. Take away those tangibles and Vick just doesn't measure up.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hey, I'm with you, and I understand exactly what you are saying. You are absolutely correct. & anyone thinking Shaub would do better than Vick, needs to apply for a job with several teams this coming offseason, since they are better talent scouts than DanReeves & the little Mora guy.

The only thing I'm not with you on, is putting him on the top ten QB list. You pretty much have to throw away every measurable we have, and have used for years when "measuring" QBs, and use nothing but Wins....... to judge QBs, when there is more to a teams W-L record than who their QB is.

Shaub is a good example of that. Yeah, he's got skills, and he can play the game. But that team was built to run, from QB to WR..... Shaub will not, and has not been as successfull as Vick on the same team.
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Well we aren't really saying anything different....I don't think Vick is a top 32 QB in the leauge.....as far a skills is concerened...That is what I have been saying...

Im just saying as far as a QB helping his team put w's on the board he is doing that...he may not be doing it conventionally...but he is definitely helping his team...he is a top 5 rusher...if that isn't helping your team I don't know what is...
 
SESupergenius said:
And that is why is his not a top 10 QB, he has a great defense and a great running game behind him, yet his passing stats aren't great. He runs good though, but has as many TD's as Carr in the running game. Take away those tangibles and Vick just doesn't measure up.
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once again...his passing % isn't as far off from some of the better QB's in the leauge...

The Falcons attempt THE FEWEST passes in the leauge per game...so do you expect him to have as many completions and yards as others?? Thats not what he does...he is a top 5 rusher....thats what he does, and right now he is doing it well.....and what do the stats have to do with this discussion anyways??? D.Carr's stats are better than Manning's...Is D.Carr doing more for his team than Manning is ???
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
D.Carr's stats are better than Manning's...Is D.Carr doing more for his team than Manning is ???
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Absolutely Carr is, no running game, no defense. Absolutely Carr is doing better for his team than Manning is.
 
kcwilson said:
Breaking news from ESPN...

Mora the Junior has just decided to release Michael Vick due to the overwhleming consensus that Vick is not a good fantasy quarterback week to week.

How does someone's fantasy value weigh into this discussion?

Vick is a different type of QB and the fact that Atlanta averages 234 yards per game on the ground is a huge testament to the type of game they try and play. Grind it out, eat up clock and yardage. It is fantastic when it works, but tough to come from behind... that is who the Atlanta Falcons have defined themselves to be as a football team...

Vick has an impressive W-L and is a valuable QB, just not the prototype QB.
Click to expand...


That's more or less it. You get that kind of run production out of Pittman & Cadillac, then throw Chris Simms into the mix, and everybody is talking about that awesome running game, & the QB that manages the game with poor passing numbers.

RickyWilliams, RonnieBrown, and BobGriese, and we want to send them to the SuperBowl.......

MichaelVick plays the part of Simms & Pittman, or Griese & RonnieBrown, I don't understand how anyone can say they are winning in spite of him.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hey, I'm with you, and I understand exactly what you are saying. You are absolutely correct. & anyone thinking Shaub would do better than Vick, needs to apply for a job with several teams this coming offseason, since they are better talent scouts than DanReeves & the little Mora guy.

The only thing I'm not with you on, is putting him on the top ten QB list. You pretty much have to throw away every measurable we have, and have used for years when "measuring" QBs, and use nothing but Wins....... to judge QBs, when there is more to a teams W-L record than who their QB is.

Shaub is a good example of that. Yeah, he's got skills, and he can play the game. But that team was built to run, from QB to WR..... Shaub will not, and has not been as successfull as Vick on the same team.
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Well then maybe we should, b/c if they were built to run they've already got PLENTY of capable runners back there & on the bench. Why does the QB need to run? I would think that making sure that you have a sound passing game is next on the list & IMO Schaub brings that.
 
thunderkyss said:
That's more or less it. You get that kind of run production out of Pittman & Cadillac, then throw Chris Simms into the mix, and everybody is talking about that awesome running game, & the QB that manages the game with poor passing numbers.

RickyWilliams, RonnieBrown, and BobGriese, and we want to send them to the SuperBowl.......

MichaelVick plays the part of Simms & Pittman, or Griese & RonnieBrown, I don't understand how anyone can say they are winning in spite of him.
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OMG....THAT is exactly what I'm sayin....
 
Mr teX said:
Well then maybe we should, b/c if they were built to run they've already got PLENTY of capable runners back there & on the bench. Why does the QB need to run? I would think that making sure that you have a sound passing game is next on the list & IMO Schaub brings that.
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LMAO...now you are arguing philosophies...that needs to be discussed with Jim Mora....
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
LMAO...now you are arguing philosophies...that needs to be discussed with Jim Mora....
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I'm not arguing Philosophies, hell he's won on the NFL level & I haven't, but can you honestly say that they are winning due to his coaching or b/c of the unbelievable talent on the field? Plus he hasn't won anything, with his Philosophy so maybe he ought to change it.
 
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