Why are there so many posts on this board wanting to draft young and give up on carr. Carr is a good qb and just needs time. Elway was not fantastic in his first couple of seasons, people in mile high were calling for Deberg if you remember him. No Im not comparing Carr to Elway, all Im saying is to give Carr sometime under a new mentor (Kubiak) and see what happens. How many teams out there would want carr if given the opportunity Balt, Miami, Jets, Saints, Raiders, Lions etc... Draft Bush or trade the pick for numerous of picks to shore up your O-line and defense. Just a comment good luck texans.
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Carr vs Young
- Thread starter BroncoFan
- Start date
But everybody is already saying we've got a better than average runblocking offensive line. I'd like to see how they would look with Kubiak and crew.
And while it would be interesting to see how Carr will turn out with Kubiak, I'm much more interested in how Vince would fare under Kubiak.
And while it would be interesting to see how Carr will turn out with Kubiak, I'm much more interested in how Vince would fare under Kubiak.
YodAa
Rookie
omg so the guy pumps up his team?!?! holy crap we gotta get Young now! Disregard the fact that Carr has tried for a long time (remember the hair thing with 2 games in a row) to lead his emotionless team, lets just totally ditch him! Then when this guy is leading a team into the SB and we're barely in year 2 of developing VY, we can throw a big parade talking about how we drafted him and a big debate over whos fault it was for him leaving and over who we should take with the 1st overall again
I still say just give the man a chance. Be careful what you wish for you may get young and he could turn out to be the next "slash"=Kordell stewart. Carr just needs some time and weapons. The only big name WR you have is Johnson. The RB is Davis who was hurt most of the season. And a pathetic O-line which defensive teams were just teeing off on Carr. Bush/O-line help would start to give Carr what he needs to help the texans become champions.
Tulip
Veteran
BroncoFan said:
That's very easy to say when you haven't had to watch him underachieve for 4 straight years. Especially when you haven't paid a lot of money to watch him underachieve in person.
If he didn't have this option coming up, I might be a little more forgiving. But the Texans have an out, and it frustrates me that they aren't going to use it. Instead, they are investing even more money in someone who *may* still have an upside. What if this is as good as it gets?
YodAa said:
I've been against drafting Reggie Bush well before the Rose Bowl.
YodAa said:
Leaders Don't try..
If David Carr take Oakland or Miami to the superbowl, I'll Kiss Reggies feet.
BroncoFan said:
You take him, give him all the time you want. Give us Champ Bailey in return.
Tulip said:
Can you say Couch..... as in Tim Couch.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
The leadership knock on Carr is one of the most overated things on this board.
Lets look at other QBs that had "No Leadership"
that were put in a similar situtation as Carr.
S. Young and J. Plunkett, both were drafted into absolutely horrid situations, but ended up LEADING their teams to superbowls when put in a winning situation.
I don't care who the QB was, he would of failed on this team.
Carr has had no protection and no TE (which is a young qbs best friend) and a craptastic defense that blew leads late with inept coaches that would sit on a 3 point lead. He wasn't exactly put into the situation to lead. The texans have set him up for failure since day one.
Lets look at other QBs that had "No Leadership"
that were put in a similar situtation as Carr.S. Young and J. Plunkett, both were drafted into absolutely horrid situations, but ended up LEADING their teams to superbowls when put in a winning situation.
I don't care who the QB was, he would of failed on this team.
Carr has had no protection and no TE (which is a young qbs best friend) and a craptastic defense that blew leads late with inept coaches that would sit on a 3 point lead. He wasn't exactly put into the situation to lead. The texans have set him up for failure since day one.
edo783 said:
Okay, just like you and all you Vince haters are saying that Vince's game won't transfer well into the NFL, it's the same for leadership. Sometimes it transfers well, sometimes it don't. In Carr's case...
I don't want to rag on Carr(although I will do it)
If you're going to give Carr another chance, give DD a chance. He's our franchise back.
Let's trade down, and try not to screw it up.
AustinJB
Rookie
BroncoFan said:
I know you weren't the first one to say this BroncoFan, but I'm just sick of people saying this w/out any basis for comparison. Don't just pick a bust that comes to mind; at least try to use someone w/ comparable stats.
Oh yeah, that's right...it's because when you stack up all the "running" QBs that everyone likes to try to compare VY to, VY's stats are better overall than all of them (I realize that stats don't tell the whole story, but it's all you have to go off of at this point in their career).
Vince Young (last college season), 6? 5? 230 lbs
3036 passing yards
65.2 comp%
325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs
Kordell Stewart (last college season) 6?1? 218lbs.
2071 passing yards
62.0 comp%
247 attempts 147 completions, 8.7 avg. yds/attempt
10 TDs, 3 INT
122 rushes for 818 yards, 5.2 avg. yds/rush, 7 TDs
Glacier
Waterboy
thunderkyss said:
Well, this is a pickle. See, in my personal opinion, there are only two offensive minds who would use Vince Young to his full potential - Shannahan and Kubiak.
I think any other coaching staff might not embrace nor nurture his mobility and rather would try to coach him into being something he is not - a one dimensional pocket QB.
That is one of the saddest aspects of realizing that Vince Young won't be coming to Houston - his best chance for success as a pro is likely passing him by.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
BigBull17 said:
Kudos to this post. It is amazing how many VY supporters scream when Kordell is used as an example, yet they are quick to jump on the Carter versus Bush comparison.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
BroncoFan said:
To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen in his debate with Dan Quayle, "Sir, I knew John Elway as a Cardinal, I knew John Elway as a Bronco, John Elway was one of the greatest ever. Mr. Carr, you are no John Elway.
Respect your franchise and takes to date, but Elway even in the lean years could make things happen with his arm, legs, determination and his medulla oblongata. You paid for his development when there was no cap, we are paying for Carr's arrested developement with important cap space.
Cordell's problem, was that he was stupid...
Problem with McNabb, is that Reid doesn't want to hurt his feelings...
Problem with Brooks, is that he refuses to use his talent....
Problem with Vick, is that he is more RB than QB....
Problem with Akili.... he was asked to do too much, way to soon..
Problem with Daunte... he's a big ole teddy bear... he wants eveybody to like him...
Problem with Bret Favre.... He thinks he is better than he is....
They've all got problems... They're all different people. Some flopped, some are models of what other coaches are looking for.
Whoever drafts Vince have got keep him behind the line of scrimmage... getting that first down with his legs every now and then is Okay, but he'll open the defense more, with his arm, combined with his ability to keep a play alive. They've got to be serious about their offensive line.. I think most coaches with Mobile QBs think they can get away with average pass protection... Carr was a victim of that. Actually, Capers took it to the extreme. But they've got to build that line as if they've got a statue standing back there. And most importantly, they can't be afraid to get in his face. Some guys( I think Carr & McNabb are prime examples) like to try to please other people.. so much that if you're happy with them... they feel like they've got nothing to do. Let them know they screwed up every now and again, and they go above and beyond.
Problem with McNabb, is that Reid doesn't want to hurt his feelings...
Problem with Brooks, is that he refuses to use his talent....
Problem with Vick, is that he is more RB than QB....
Problem with Akili.... he was asked to do too much, way to soon..
Problem with Daunte... he's a big ole teddy bear... he wants eveybody to like him...
Problem with Bret Favre.... He thinks he is better than he is....
They've all got problems... They're all different people. Some flopped, some are models of what other coaches are looking for.
Whoever drafts Vince have got keep him behind the line of scrimmage... getting that first down with his legs every now and then is Okay, but he'll open the defense more, with his arm, combined with his ability to keep a play alive. They've got to be serious about their offensive line.. I think most coaches with Mobile QBs think they can get away with average pass protection... Carr was a victim of that. Actually, Capers took it to the extreme. But they've got to build that line as if they've got a statue standing back there. And most importantly, they can't be afraid to get in his face. Some guys( I think Carr & McNabb are prime examples) like to try to please other people.. so much that if you're happy with them... they feel like they've got nothing to do. Let them know they screwed up every now and again, and they go above and beyond.
Huge said:
Isn't Miami trying to get rid of him too.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Kaiser Toro said:
You mean like 1992 when his team went 8-8, his QB rating was 65, he had more INTs than TDs (17v10), he had a 55% completion percentage, he had 2242 yards in 12 games? Oh yeah, BTW, his career completion percentage was 57%.
Glacier
Waterboy
Jack Bauer said:You mean like 1992 when his team went 8-8, his QB rating was 65, he had more INTs than TDs (17v10), he had a 55% completion percentage, he had 2242 yards in 12 games? Oh yeah, BTW, his career completion percentage was 57%.
hmmmm was that Elway's worst season? I'll take 8-8 vs 2-14 in worst case scenarios.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Glacier said:
Denver always had good coaching and above average talent, especially while Elway was there. And concerning numbers, Elway was never subjected to the offense Carr has been subjected to.
You know Robert Reid was a good shooting Guard but Clyde Drexler was much better in My and History's opinion. The Rockets did'nt draft Drexler because of we had Reid. Young is just a better player than Carr, Different. Did you see the Game a couple of weeks ago which he pretty much beat USC by himself? Have any other College player Thrown for 3,000 yards and ran for 1,000 yards?
PEOPLE COME ON!!!! the guy has done the same thing on every level he played. I can't see Carr going 12-4 ever
PEOPLE COME ON!!!! the guy has done the same thing on every level he played. I can't see Carr going 12-4 ever
Jack Bauer said:
they always had above average talent because Elway was there.. they weren't shipping players to the probowl every year or anything like that.
W
whiskeyrbl
Guest
YodAa ,My God your still available and the Texans haven't called you for the OC job.I can't believe that!!!!!You obviouslt haven't watched alot of football lately.Carr is a leader,didn't see anyoneelse getting hit play after play after play,get up go back to the huddle,and try again.Not to mention the offensive playbook of run,run,sack,punt.Of anyone on that team he has earned his right to be given another shot to suceed in a new scheme.I just do not see giving up on him yet especially for someone who has not taken a snap in pro football,and for that matter hasn't run a pro style offense.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, nothing like Shannon Sharpe. He never went to the Pro Bowl.
whiskeyrbl said:
there's a difference between running a prostyle offense, and running a prostyle offense correctly.
Sides, if you don't want to take Young, I'm cool with that. Really I am, but if you're going to use the pick....
Jack Bauer said:
Ok, you got me... Shannon Sharpe.... how long was he playing in Denver?? How long was Elway playing in Denver?? How long were they playing in Denver together??
Of course they've had talent. But many years, Elway was the only talent.
W
whiskeyrbl
Guest
Just tired of DC haters Praying to the VY guy.Am a lifelong Horns fan,just do not believe VY is the answer.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
The Broncos always had talented receivers, but did not get the Pro Bowl nods because of the offenses in Houston and Buffalo. Not to mention, both those teams' WRs were VERY talented as well.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Glacier
Waterboy
Jack Bauer said:
Honestly, I don't give a flying **** who plays QB for the Texans as long as it isn't David Carr or Tony Banks. Neither has proven that they are the man.
It doesn't have to be DC vs VY....
It could be DV vs Wheinhart. He did win a heisman as well, you know? He did blow up in the 2nd half of the national championship. He was clutch in the 2nd half over and over again when his team was flat and losing.
I'd be perfectly happy with seeing Leinart drafted #1 over all. Bush will not make as big an impact on a running back wealthy team as a Leinhart, Young or a Jay Cutler makes on a team starving for some good play from the QB position.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
HoneymoonIsOver said:
A Slocum protege? First of all, we could only hope for the success that Slocum had at A&M. Secondly, Slocum is a defensive-minded coach and Kubiak is an offensive-minded coach...
LoneStarState
Waterboy
Hopefully, those are words you'll have to eat...HoneymoonIsOver said:
Glacier
Waterboy
edo783 said:
The year Carr was drafted, there weren't wasn't a wealth of NFL QBing prospects in the draft....
lets see.....we had Joey Harrington, who can't use the excuse of "bad coaching" like Carr gets the benifit of the doubt for....
And David Carr...Not much to chose from there. Maybe Coach Capers would have been smarter to draft what he knew and gone with Julius Peppers.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
HoneymoonIsOver said:
(A) Quit with the Carr/lemon wordplay. It is no longer funny after you hear it about twenty thousand times.
(B) I am glad you are so astute and privy regarding the Texans' organization that you are so fully aware of David Carr's pre and post-practice habits, as well as the nature of his relationships with his teammates. Else we, the mortal fans, would have no idea what was really going on behind the scenes and away from the camera, and would have to rely on such debatedly omniscient sources as our adept Chronicle writers for all of our information.
No, wait. I get it. You are relying on the Chronicle writers. Otherwise, instead of saying "you never hear about" you would be saying "I have never seen," operating of course on the assumption that you would be in a position to see or know of this kind of off-record work in the first place. An assumption which, I could be pretty sure, is one you have pulled out of your [expletive deleted]. Since you are not in said position, you further rely on - of all sources - this city's sportswriters to give you the real, much less full, story.
Anyone see the flaw in this thinking?
"GQ looks" and "clean life" are not synonomous with lack of heart or competitive edge. As much as I am dying to know where you draw that comparison from, I am going to avoid asking, as I am afraid it will further diminish your lack of credibility.
Football players don't have to be thug-life to be good or have fire. Neither are they required to broadcast their abilities to anyone and everyone who will listen.