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Carr just isn't a winner

I

IshouldbeGM

Noob
Big time players step up in big time situations. I'm not saying Losman is a big time player, but he stepped up when he had to. Why cant Carr ever step up?? I know the defense let us down, but why cant the offense ever take over a game? How many pts did the offense score in the 2nd half? 0!!! Say what you want about the 22 consecutive passes, mark brunell had the same record and he's benched this week, so that record means nothing is you dont score pts and lose the game! We need to move in a differend direction at the QB position!
 
Losman had to engineer a TD drive because he gave one away to Dunta. That's not a "winner," if you ask me.

Carr played a great game today. Period.

I don't know how we look at this game and say that Carr isn't a winner.

He did his job a lot better than some others did today.
 
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

The pick was on AJ on the first drive.
 
I disagree with you, but I am not going to argue against you. My only question is, why point out Carr? Why not point out Cook? I know there is never an opportune time to fumble, but this guy has fumble twice during critical times in the past couple of games? Why not point out Salaam, who seems to get beat once every offensive series? Why not point out Petey Faggins, clearly a favorite on this board, who got beat twice for two huge early scores? Why don't you point out the defensive coaching staff? Why don't you point out Kubiak, who clearly played the game not to lose after we took the lead?

I don't think Carr is an MVP, but you Carr haters need to realize that Carr is not the biggest problem with this team. We have so many holes to fill on this team, it isn't funny. We have a lot of guys on this team who aren't winners...
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

That ball was taken by the Bills within the 10-yard line or so.

That's as good as a punt.

Stanley gave that game away by not booming a punt.

OTHER NFL punters are able to punt the ball around 50 yards, especially with a good roll on it. Stanley? 30-yards.

Go out in your yard, and I bet you can punt the ball 30 yards consistently. Now, go check your bank account at the end of the week and tell me if you got the fat paycheck that Stanley is getting. Just let me know, OK?

David go first downs all on his own today. He friggin TIED the NFL record for consecutive completions today. He was perhaps the most reliable player today. Period.

Another "David is a jerk" knee jerk when we lose. I guess when we lose it's David'[s fault and when we win, it was a great team effort.

One thing's for sure: Stanley cannot punt the ball deep and place teams further back than what other NFL punters are doing.

David's the only one who gets benched or criticized when he makes a mistake.

Amazing. For anybody to say that David has a free ride, it's absolutely false.

Where's the fairness here? I know a half-dozen guys that ought to be benched or cut for their lack of focus and attention to detail.
 
say what you want, this team is growing, the coaching staff is growing, the players are growing.

We are inconsistant right now. We show flashes of being good and yet have flashes of just being horrible.
 
Alright first Carr made one mistake. How many did the defense make. How could they not stop the last drive with under 2 minutes left. I think that they have to be responsible this week not Carr. He is a damn good quarterback. He takes hit and doesnt whine. He never talks crap about his recievers or anything How is he the one to blame. I think the defensive cordinator blew this one out of his butt. Not Carr.
 
The pick in the first quarter was not on AJ. He did a heckuva job trying to catch up to the ball and, if he would have caught it, it would have been a spectacular catch. The corner (forget his name) just played a great game today, which is more than most corners can say when they go 1-on-1 against AJ as often as he did. In fact, AJ stopped a sure pick from happening, I believe in the second quarter. Remember when he was flagged for offensive pass interference? Yeah. That one. The corner had the ball the entire way until he did that.

I was going to say more than that, but I don't want to contribute to an unending back and forth argument.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
Big time players step up in big time situations. I'm not saying Losman is a big time player, but he stepped up when he had to. Why cant Carr ever step up?? I know the defense let us down, but why cant the offense ever take over a game? How many pts did the offense score in the 2nd half? 0!!! Say what you want about the 22 consecutive passes, mark brunell had the same record and he's benched this week, so that record means nothing is you dont score pts and lose the game! We need to move in a differend direction at the QB position!
Click to expand...


I can't believe you wanna blame Carr! The game was won and "guru" Kubiak decided to throw the ball with 1:40 seconds left in the game. Not only did it kill the chance for the first down, but it left plenty of time on the clock for the Bills and the much needed timeout to make the touchdown call to win the game. What game are you watching that Carr blew it. Of course, the interception, but I guess he's supposed to complete that with a defensive end wrapped around his throat! The guy is showing more guts, has better weapons, and is demonstrating he can lead a team on long drives. How about completing 22 in a row. give the guy some credit and if you want, launch into Petey Faggins that got beat for 2, count them "2", 80 yard plus TD's. By the way, we scored 7 points in the second half!!!!
 
gameguy89 said:
The pick in the first quarter was not on AJ. He did a heckuva job trying to catch up to the ball and, if he would have caught it, it would have been a spectacular catch. The corner (forget his name) just played a great game today, which is more than most corners can say when they go 1-on-1 against AJ as often as he did. In fact, AJ stopped a sure pick from happening, I believe in the second quarter. Remember when he was flagged for offensive pass interference? Yeah. That one. The corner had the ball the entire way until he did that.

I was going to say more than that, but I don't want to contribute to an unending back and forth argument.
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So you agree that interception was on Carr when it was in AJ's hands and he couldn't hold on to it?
 
Battle Red Bull said:
So you agree that interception was on Carr when it was in AJ's hands and he couldn't hold on to it?
Click to expand...

First INT was on Carr.

Second INT was on AJ.

Period.

Anybody who wants to excuse AJ for not fighting for the ball when it was in HIS hands is just parroting the "David Carr sucks" mantra that's as old as this team itself.

It's always easier to say that it's the same guy's fault for all our woes.

Well, I think there's two guys on this team are beginning to be just as much to blame for losses as Carr has been credited for (Cook and Stanley).

FBs are a dime a dozen. We've got a RB (Dayne) who breaks linemen's legs...put HIM in at FB and cut Cook for fumbong two catches in spots where we would have had AT LEAST a FG attempt on each fumble drive.
 
If you think stats win games, Carr is your man. If you want a winning QB, try again. I guess I will just say it till I am blue in the face. This team will never consistently win big as long as Carr is the field general. :confused:

Wait, I am blue in the face. Guess that's all I can say then.
 
Porky said:
If you think stats win games, Carr is your man. If you want a winning QB, try again. I guess I will just say it till I am blue in the face. This team will never consistently win big as long as Carr is the field general. :confused:

Wait, I am blue in the face. Guess that's all I can say then.
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You have the swine blue. :pigfly:

on a thread related note...I'm out of here for the rest of the games and won't be back till tonight so I hope you guys keep these threads civil. :yikes:
 
um how was that carr's fault, was he suppose to go out and play safety on that last play, or maybe he should of took cooks spot, carr played a good game, but to me the last quater was a little to conservative for my liking, but nothin i can do, maybe next week
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

I don't see why you are puting all of our losses on carr, I don't care if you have manning or brady, if you don't have a team around them, then you don't win PERIOD...sure carr has thrown some duck eggs out there, but it takes a whole team to win, and a whole team to lose, so please quit blaming all our losses on one player. Flame me if you want thats just my :twocents:

GO TEXANS!!!!
 
0 offensive points in the 2nd half

thank you, thats my point. carr doesnt step up when he needs to. You know, I cannot believe you guys are defending Carr. Its the same crap, week after week after week, oh its the o-lines fault, oh its jameel cooks fault, oh its the defense fault, you know what......MAKE PLAYS!!! for five years this offense has stunk, all with david carr at qb, how much more time are yall going to give the guy??? today was no excuse, we had a running game, make plays, score points!!
 
The biggest play of the game...3rd and 2...Carr throws a bad pass ...as hard as he can.... that AJ has no chance on. I would give up 20 in a row for a completion with the game on the line.

Rinse and repeat...5 years and counting! :redtowel:
 
Hold on. Carr did not give up 2 83 yard TD passes. Carr did not call the plays. How can Carr be blamed for losing when he is not responsible for what most people are blaming the loss on?

Could he have played better? Yes. Did he play bad? No. Carr gave us a chance to win.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
Big time players step up in big time situations. I'm not saying Losman is a big time player, but he stepped up when he had to. Why cant Carr ever step up?? I know the defense let us down, but why cant the offense ever take over a game? How many pts did the offense score in the 2nd half? 0!!! Say what you want about the 22 consecutive passes, mark brunell had the same record and he's benched this week, so that record means nothing is you dont score pts and lose the game! We need to move in a differend direction at the QB position!
Click to expand...

Agree. No question. As I said in another thread - Carr seems to be at his best when it matters least, and is at his worst when it matters the most. Guys with avg athletic ability and tangibles have had good to great careers because they understood the game between the ears, and came up biggest when it mattered the most. Good example - Joe Montana, an unheradled 3rd round QB who some argue is the greatest to play the game. If you put Montana and Carr in some kind of atheltic competition during their primes, Carr would trounce him in nearly every catagory, from speed to arm strength. But when it counts - like with 2:00 left and the game in the balance, Montana would run rings around Carr. Montana makes that play yesterday. Period. Some guys have this gift, others don't. I think after 5 years, I have determined that Carr doesn't, and I for one, say let's go find one who does.
 
rmartin65 said:
Hold on. Carr did not give up 2 83 yard TD passes. Carr did not call the plays. How can Carr be blamed for losing when he is not responsible for what most people are blaming the loss on?

Could he have played better? Yes. Did he play bad? No. Carr gave us a chance to win.
Click to expand...

Carr also led 2 TD drives of 70 and 80 yards in the 1st half after we went down 14-0 in the 1st because of our defense. He also led the drive at the end of the 2nd quarter where he completed 7 passes in a row for 50 yards that ended when Cook fumbled, and he also had his 16 yard 1st down scramble called back in the 4th becuase of the holding call on Pitts.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

That interception amounted to nothing more than a punt inside the 20...

Memo to the D - How about not giving up an 80+ yard bomb............ In consecutive possesions, no less... "

See if they score more points than we do, they win......... NOW WAKE UP!!"
 
rmartin65 said:
Hold on. Carr did not give up 2 83 yard TD passes. Carr did not call the plays. How can Carr be blamed for losing when he is not responsible for what most people are blaming the loss on?

Could he have played better? Yes. Did he play bad? No. Carr gave us a chance to win.
Click to expand...

How did Carr give us a chance to win? He didn't, that's how. Some of you Carr groupies amaze me with your excuses for the guy. One week it's because he has no running game, one week it's the o line, one week it's the D's fault for not forcing enough punts, another week it's crappy coaching, and one week it's because he can't stop fumbling and it's just a bad day that everyone has. What's it gonna be this week? Carr helping Chad Stanley pad his stats?
 
IshouldbeGM said:
Big time players step up in big time situations. I'm not saying Losman is a big time player, but he stepped up when he had to. Why cant Carr ever step up?? I know the defense let us down, but why cant the offense ever take over a game? How many pts did the offense score in the 2nd half? 0!!! Say what you want about the 22 consecutive passes, mark brunell had the same record and he's benched this week, so that record means nothing is you dont score pts and lose the game! We need to move in a differend direction at the QB position!
Click to expand...

What do you mean he isn't a winner? Have you seen his bank account? He's a winner where it counts to David Carr and family. We are the only losers.
 
JDizzle said:
How did Carr give us a chance to win? He didn't, that's how. Some of you Carr groupies amaze me with your excuses for the guy. One week it's because he has no running game, one week it's the o line, one week it's the D's fault for not forcing enough punts, another week it's crappy coaching, and one week it's because he can't stop fumbling and it's just a bad day that everyone has. What's it gonna be this week? Carr helping Chad Stanley pad his stats?
Click to expand...

You are not automatically a "Carr groupie" if you believe you saw the team in position to win the game after spotting the other team 14 points. :twocents:
 
JDizzle said:
How did Carr give us a chance to win? He didn't, that's how. Some of you Carr groupies amaze me with your excuses for the guy. One week it's because he has no running game, one week it's the o line, one week it's the D's fault for not forcing enough punts, another week it's crappy coaching, and one week it's because he can't stop fumbling and it's just a bad day that everyone has. What's it gonna be this week? Carr helping Chad Stanley pad his stats?
Click to expand...

Yeah, Carr made Cook fumble at the Bill's 13 and Carr was also responsible for Pitts' holding call that negated his 16 yard run for a 1st down, I totally forgot. :lightbulb: Those 2 plays right there killed drives where we should have came away with at least 3 points a piece from each drive. My question is how did Carr NOT give us a chance to win? The game should not have come down to Carr completing or not completing a 2 yard pass. The Bills marched 50 yards in just over a minute against our defense.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

That's funny because I could've sworn you need to play good defense to win as well.
 
joeton said:
Alright first Carr made one mistake. How many did the defense make. How could they not stop the last drive with under 2 minutes left. I think that they have to be responsible this week not Carr. He is a damn good quarterback. He takes hit and doesnt whine. He never talks crap about his recievers or anything How is he the one to blame. I think the defensive cordinator blew this one out of his butt. Not Carr.
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dude how many times did the wider receivers come back empty handed? A bunch. You can longer say that Carr plays safe, mistake free ball and therefore he is good. That won't float any more. He's got to put it out there one side or the other. Is he just marking time, building stats or genuinely interested in taking a chance, risking it all to win? He take far too few chances and is entirely too focused on AJ. He's a lightweight. Nothing can fix him.
 
kingh99 said:
dude how many times did the wider receivers come back empty handed? A bunch. You can longer say that Carr plays safe, mistake free ball and therefore he is good. That won't float any more. He's got to put it out there one side or the other. Is he just marking time, building stats or genuinely interested in taking a chance, risking it all to win? He take far too few chances and is entirely too focused on AJ. He's a lightweight. Nothing can fix him.
Click to expand...

maybe we should put sage in.:hunter:
 
Sage easily would have stopped Lee Evans from almost breaking the record for receiving yards in all time history....yeah.....
 
:deadhorse....

When the D can actually stop somebody, I may listen to some of these arguments... Until then, remember, an offense takes time to create. Defense takes a lot less, because its job is to destroy...

Thats why Championships are won on Defense...
 
JDizzle said:
How did Carr give us a chance to win? He didn't, that's how. Some of you Carr groupies amaze me with your excuses for the guy. One week it's because he has no running game, one week it's the o line, one week it's the D's fault for not forcing enough punts, another week it's crappy coaching, and one week it's because he can't stop fumbling and it's just a bad day that everyone has. What's it gonna be this week? Carr helping Chad Stanley pad his stats?
Click to expand...

It is not about being a Carr groupie, it is actually placing blame where it belongs and blaming the players who did not play well. When Carr does not play well put blame on him all you want, but when he does play well how about just once all the Carr haters actually give him credit for playing well. The pass on 3 - 2 was not his call that was the Coaches call. The two 83 yard td plays were on the defese. the last drive for the winning score was on Stanley and the defense. The fumble, was on Cook not on Carr.

It is not about making excuses like I said, it is about watching the game and saying this happened or this was happening so this was the outcome or the result. Not about defending anyone player. But maybe I look at things differently.
 
Mr teX said:
maybe we should put sage in.:hunter:
Click to expand...

We can't put in Sage. What if he kept doing what he does everytime he gets in? That would be a disaster for this franchise and it's owner. Read my signature.
 
dtran04 said:
Sage easily would have stopped Lee Evans from almost breaking the record for receiving yards in all time history....yeah.....
Click to expand...

He might have put the ball on AJ's shoulder or decided against forcing it in there on the first series and given our guys a chance to wake up before facing Evans.

Anyone else think the first two plays of the game were the first time in recorded history a pro game started with back to back reverses?
 
Texan_Bill said:
:deadhorse....

When the D can actually stop somebody, I may listen to some of these arguments... Until then, remember, an offense takes time to create. Defense takes a lot less, because its job is to destroy...

Thats why Championships are won on Defense...
Click to expand...

Context is so important with this game.

The defense did give up the big drive and big play at the end. But, outside of the first quarter and that one drive, the defense played pretty good.

Meanwhile, the offense did well in the first half to pick up the slack from the defense in the 1st quarter. But, the offense didn't score a point in the second half and only got one 1st down in the 4th quarter with only 31 yards or so. Without the defensive TD in the 2nd half, there wouldn't have been a lead to protect anyway.

If the Texans give up more than 21 points in a game for whatever reason, they are going to lose because this offense can't score more than 17 points in game.

You can blame the defense for this loss, but the reason for this loss is spread around the whole team.

It seems you are taking this position in a stealth defense of Carr.
 
hollywood_texan said:
Context is so important with this game.

The defense did give up the big drive and big play at the end. But, outside of the first quarter and that one drive, the defense played pretty good.

Meanwhile, the offense did well in the first half to pick up the slack from the defense in the 1st quarter. But, the offense didn't score a point in the second half and only got one 1st down in the 4th quarter with only 31 yards or so. Without the defensive TD in the 2nd half, there wouldn't have been a lead to protect anyway.

If the Texans give up more than 21 points in a game for whatever reason, they are going to lose because this offense can't score more than 17 points in game.

You can blame the defensive for this loss, but the reason for this loss is spread around the whole team.

It seems you are taking this position in a stealth defense of Carr.
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Cook's fumble killed our drive at the Bill's 13 that should have given us at least 3 points on a 7 play drive where Carr completed 7 passes in a row for 50yards until Cook fumbled. Then Pitt's holding call on Carr's 16 yard run for a 1st down put us out of field goal range.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
last i checked, carr threw a pick also on the first drive....and what did the bills do when they got the ball? they scored...so you can say carr indirectly cost us a td there. Carr just doesnt make enough winning plays, im sorry. All that matters is wins and losses. we cant even win 2 in a row!! thats absurd!!! Carr puts up nice stats, but we're 10 games into the season and he only has 9 td passes, so whats thay saying??? he doesnt produce touchdowns!! you have to score to win!!! make plays!!! 0 points in the second half is inexcusable!!!
Click to expand...

He doesn't even put up nice stats. He dumps the ball off to the running back. He will never be a winner in the NFL...mark it down!
 
DeclanJr said:
He doesn't even put up nice stats. He dumps the ball off to the running back. He will never be a winner in the NFL...mark it down!
Click to expand...

59 of his 198 completions this season have been to our four running backs. Reggie Bush alone has 51 receptions this season.
 
Specnatz said:
It is not about being a Carr groupie, it is actually placing blame where it belongs and blaming the players who did not play well. When Carr does not play well put blame on him all you want, but when he does play well how about just once all the Carr haters actually give him credit for playing well. The pass on 3 - 2 was not his call that was the Coaches call. The two 83 yard td plays were on the defese. the last drive for the winning score was on Stanley and the defense. The fumble, was on Cook not on Carr.

It is not about making excuses like I said, it is about watching the game and saying this happened or this was happening so this was the outcome or the result. Not about defending anyone player. But maybe I look at things differently.
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I don't disagree that all those other areas led to the loss yesterday as well, but Carr is not blameless. A good QB makes that play at the end of the game. A good QB helps his team put up a measly 3 points somewhere in the second half to salt the game away. The problem with yesterday as it relates to Carr isn't that he was a factor in us losing that game, it's that he has been a factor in us having a bad offense for 5 years now. Blame Faggins and Cook all you want. I don't disagree as it pertains to yesterday. So, was Cook to blame for Carr's failures last year? Was Faggins to blame early this year? The point is that each weak if the team loses you can pick up failures each week, but the one constant imo is Carr.
 
kingh99 said:
dude how many times did the wider receivers come back empty handed? A bunch. You can longer say that Carr plays safe, mistake free ball and therefore he is good. That won't float any more. He's got to put it out there one side or the other. Is he just marking time, building stats or genuinely interested in taking a chance, risking it all to win? He take far too few chances and is entirely too focused on AJ. He's a lightweight. Nothing can fix him.
Click to expand...

hollywood_texan said:
Context is so important with this game.

The defense did give up the big drive and big play at the end. But, outside of the first quarter and that one drive, the defense played pretty good.

Meanwhile, the offense did well in the first half to pick up the slack from the defense in the 1st quarter. But, the offense didn't score a point in the second half and only got one 1st down in the 4th quarter with only 31 yards or so. Without the defensive TD in the 2nd half, there wouldn't have been a lead to protect anyway.

If the Texans give up more than 21 points in a game for whatever reason, they are going to lose because this offense can't score more than 17 points in game.

You can blame the defense for this loss, but the reason for this loss is spread around the whole team.

It seems you are taking this position in a stealth defense of Carr.
Click to expand...

Nope. No stealth tactics here.

You said it best yourself... "This offense can't".... Thats the point. Until "they" can score more.... Not just the QB position... QB's do not have to "win" or take over games by themselves.... See Trent Dilfer (or Brad Johnson if you like)... Baltimore does not win their SB without that D - that year. I don't recall them giving up back to back bombs on the first two possesions of a game, and giving up a game winning drive with under two minutes.

Insert (any QB you like) for Carr, the results would be identical. We just arent there yet. Period.
 
gpshafer_1976 said:
Losman had to engineer a TD drive because he gave one away to Dunta. That's not a "winner," if you ask me.
Click to expand...

Losman had to engineer a WINNING TD drive because he gave one away to Dunta. That IS a winner if you ask me.

The bottom line to winning is winning. The bottom line to losing is losing.
 
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