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Carr Facts...

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Porky said:
I'm not only talking about holding the ball too long. He has zero pocket presense. Want an example? Okay, in the last set of downs on the last drive against Jax. I forget if it was 2nd or 3rd down. Carr drops back, and has plenty of time. Holds the ball, and his first read is apparently not open, (which is debatable in itself, as guys have to be wide open, or he won't throw to them) He starts to think about taking off running (there was still no real pressure on him, he has his usual happy feet) and he starts running to his right, looking like a panicked deer being chased by a hunter, which takes him right into two pass rushers, and he is sacked.
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Hmmm, would that be in the things I saw due to preconceived notions Jags game? Carr was touched on two plays in the last drive--once at 2:46 on 1st & 10 when Wand gets roasted and Carr without moving has the ball knocked out of his hand--Bruener quickly recovered the ball because he was laying on the ground behind his man who is about to hit Carr. The 2nd time occurs at 1:11 on 3rd & 4 when Wade and Wells allow the LDE and a LB to pincer into the backfield. Evidently the deer you are familiar with (by the way who hunts deer by chasing them?) only panic one or two steps, because Carr steps forward into the pocket to allow Wade and Wells more room to deal with their guys--they still don't get it done and he is hit from behind and sacked.

I blame about half the sacks on Carr.
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If those were definitions of sacks that were Carr's fault, then you should probably go ahead and blame them all on Carr.

He isn't at all "instinctive", and the coaches trust him so much they even let him audible from a running play designed to go right, to one designed to go left. Maybe by his 10th season, they will let him feed himself, and change his own diapers too.
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It is hilarious IMO that anyone who thinks the coaching staff should be fired would use the coaches judgment as an indication of anything. These coaches also have Bradford as a starting WR, put Riley at LT, let pro-bowler Foley go as not talented enough for the team. Yeah, I am going to rely on what they think.
 
SESupergenius said:
Wooden, or surprised he has time? Why would Carr throw to someone that is covered?? I guess you want more interceptions because these WR's are not going to fight for ANY ball, much less make a play.
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What does wooden, and the amount of time he has, have anything to do with each other? Good QB's throw to covered WR's all the time. How many times does a WR have a 5 yard advantage on a DB in the NFL? Do you even watch any other games? Lastly, go back and look at the tape, and see how AJ was breaking open against zone coverage, when Carr threw his prayer pass.

David Carr = John Yawle
 
TEXANRED said:
But wait there's more.....

Carr drinks straight from the milk carton
Carr puts the empty carton back in the fridge
Carr eats the big piece of chicken
Carr scratches himself when companys over
Carr burps
Carr farts

But wait there is even more.....

Its Carrs fault there is no piece in the middle east
Carr cant find binloden
Carr let korea develop nucular weapons
Carr is the reason why there is hunger in the world
Carr is the reason there is global warming
Carr is the reason A&M defense sucks
Carr is the reason our defense sucks

did I miss anything?

Ha.
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Quality humor
 
DRAMA said:
"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Houston: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to David Carr. You just rejected him from your city," Robertson said on the NFL version of the Broadcasting Network's "700 Club."

Eight families had sued Drama, Porky, Vinny, etc.., claiming Carr hatred violates the constitutional separation of objectivity and Texan bias. The local BBS trial concluded days before last Sunday's Jacksonville game, but no ruling had been issued.

Later Thursday, Robertson issued a statement saying he was simply trying to point out that "anti-Carr actions have consequences."

"David Carr is tolerant and loving and can throw the deep ball even though our receivers can't catch, but we can't keep sticking our finger in his eye forever," Robertson said. "If they have future problems in Houston, I recommend they call on Brady Quinn. Maybe he can help them."
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lol: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=14382
 
Porky said:
Lastly, go back and look at the tape, and see how AJ was breaking open against zone coverage, when Carr threw his prayer pass.
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Exactly, AJ "was breaking open" when Carr threw a perfect pass to Bradford--in other words when Carr was making his 1st read on AJ, AJ was not open and so Carr went to his 2nd read and found an open Bradford.
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly, AJ "was breaking open" when Carr threw a perfect pass to Bradford--in other words when Carr was making his 1st read on AJ, AJ was not open and so Carr went to his 2nd read and found an open Bradford.
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Good QB's project who is open based on reads...but I'll digress....I can't talk about Carr on this mb without hate mail.
 
Vinny said:
Good QB's project who is open based on reads...but I'll digress....I can't talk about Carr on this mb without hate mail.
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The problem with projecting the opening on that play is it might not have happened at all. The safety was looking right at Carr (hence the hand on AJ's shoulder to keep track of him) and comes off AJ as Carr throws to Bradford. Would the same thing have happened if Carr was looking at AJ?--almost certainly not. Not saying AJ might not have still been able to make the reception, but what we saw with the safety pulling up and AJ coming wide open wasn't the real coverage. Wow, talk about one overanalyzed play.

Porky seems to me you have squarely entered the spin zone if that "description" of Carr is your take on what happened on the last drive of the Jags game.
 
Porky said:
Do you even watch any other games?
David Carr = John Yawle
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This is BS! You guys can open up these little personal attacks without any moderation, but God forbid if someone else does it.

I keep hearing the weak argument that Carr can't throw to a receiver that isn't covered. Well, DO YOU EVEN WATCH THE GAMES??? (there, you're it!) Did you not see Carr lay it into Bradfords hands with the CB right on his tail? Guess not for you arguments sake. Did you not see that crucial 3rd down play a couple of games ago where Carr darted it between two defenders for a 1st down?? Guess not. Did you see that play where Carr put it onto Bradfords numbers and the defender wrestled it away?? Did you happen to see Rivers put two hands a ball, only to have it knocked away feabily by a defender? Naw, guess not.

I think you better layoff the food into your Porky face while the plays are going on, you are missing them.
 
Vinny said:
Good QB's project who is open based on reads...but I'll digress....I can't talk about Carr on this mb without hate mail.
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Ya and just a couple of plays earlier, Carr "projected" Andre to no give up and that play to the deep fade towards the sideline. Andre said he gave up and rightfully Carr put it where it he was supposed to go.

Another weak argument by the Blind Man Carr Hater Group, or BMCHG for short.
 
OK folks, let's not let this devolve to where posts have to start getting deleted. Smarting off is generally tolerated--direct insults are not.
 
Look, let's call a spade a spade. For whatever reason, WHATEVER reason, Carr is an average quarterback right now. Will he be great? Maybe. Has he been great? No? Will he be our future? Maybe.

These are just things we don't know. Technically, from a football standpoint, Carr made a perfect pass. Technically, from a football standpoint, he makes poor reads. But right now, even though I'll be called a Carr hater, David Carr is simply an average QB on a very poor football team....and that's ALL we can judge him on.
 
SESupergenius said:
Ya and just a couple of plays earlier, Carr "projected" Andre to no give up and that play to the deep fade towards the sideline. Andre said he gave up and rightfully Carr put it where it he was supposed to go.

Another weak argument by the Blind Man Carr Hater Group, or BMCHG for short.
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Solid post. :rolleyes: The Texans are 1-7 and our QB is at best only 1/53 part of the problem. If his contract was worth 1/53 of the total salary we could possibly build a team around him
 
Lucky said:
Who's Tim Gerheim?
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He is a law student at UT. His role at footballoutsiders is "TIM GERHEIM fulfills his new role of assistant grand poobah of layout and chief grammar inspector for Football Outsiders." Clearly a QB guru.
 
infantrycak said:
"TIM GERHEIM fulfills his new role of assistant grand poobah of layout and chief grammar inspector for Football Outsiders."
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I applied for the poobah position. They said my poo looked fine, but my bah was lacking. Bah Humbug.
 
:tv: As far as the great Carr debate goes ... its just a matter of time before it all comes out in the wash .
The whole argument seems to be who's responsible for Carr's regression .
Carr allies list for regression

1.OL
2. Coaches
3. Offense
4. Recievers

Carr Critics list
1. OL
2. Carr
3. Coaching
4. Recievers
 
bigTEXan8 said:
As far as the Carr debate goes, it should be this:

We don't know what we have in Carr. He has never had a o-line that could block a pop-warner league d-line, let alone a professional d-line. He has never had any decent WRs (minus AJ when actually catches the ball). His coaches come to game together on the short bus, helmets already strapped on. Carr makes bad decisions. He'll get happy feet sometimes shortly after the ball is snapped, (which he has right to as far as I'm concerned). He'll force throws, give up on plays too early because he's afraid he's gonna get sacked and lose yards, and he knows better than all of us how hard those are to come by. He tries to make too much happen by himself. Has he regressed, or is he only playing as well as the team around him? No one can give a accurate, fair, or unbiased opinion on how carr has done, because NO ONE KNOWS. Unfortunately, we'll never know unless we put a complete team out on the field.
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I posted this elsewhere, but it fits

IMO, this is the most unforgiveable aspect of what going on with the Texans. I can handle the team picking wrong guys, players getting injuired etc. But running a guy out as QB for 50-60 games and having to literally guess at what type player you have, is shameful. It is bad from a business standpoint and an onfield standpoint. As dysfunctional as the Lions have been they at least put Joey Harrington in a position to know he can't be "the guy."
 
DRAMA said:
Look, let's call a spade a spade. For whatever reason, WHATEVER reason, Carr is an average quarterback right now.
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Average? I would love it if Carr were average. Average QB's don't sack themselves more than the kid at Randall's. He is about to break Strahan's single season sack record. Avg QB's have more yards than my lawnboy. Average QB's don't consistently make dumb plays, and can read coverages better than the 4th grade level. If only he was average. No, he has a long ways to go to be average. He was nearing average the first half of last year, and then the bottom dropped out.
 
Upon further review it is all Carr's fault. If he would have ran down field and placed the ball in Corey "Don't throw it to stonehands" Bradford hands, then maybe, just maybe, he would have been able to hang on to the ball.

This is a bad team having a bad year. An average team that is having a good year will find ways of winning. Take the patriots, average offense, average defense, no running game, average recievers. But some one is always there to make a play, whether it is a clutch catch, throw, pick or fumble recovery.

What do we do, fumble the fumble recovery, drop the pick, miss the throw. No one is stepping up to make plays. Thats everyone. The defense, the offense, the recievers, the running backs, recievers, QB, o-line, d-line, linebackers, DB's, safteys, Head coach, assistant coach, assistant to the assistant coach, GM, owner, my mom, your mom, everybody's mom. No one is going to come out of this year smelling like roses.
 
:texflag: What needs to come out is ... why are things so simple and controlled for Carr ? Who dropped the ball on the OL ? Did Capers do a decent coaching job with OK players before or did Capers take good players and make them bad ?
 
Porky said:
...He was nearing average the first half of last year, and then the bottom dropped out.
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In your opinion, why did the bottom drop out?
 
Lucky said:
In your opinion, why did the bottom drop out?
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That's sort of the $20,000 question, isn't it? I don't know, but I suspect that teams just caught on to what his strengths were, and went to more cover 2, etc., which he has trouble reading. I wish I had a solid 100% answer. All you have to do is look at his stats from the 1st half, to the 2nd half of last year. The stats don't tell the whole story, but it's easy to see there was a dramatic difference.
 
infantrycak said:
Thanks for rehashing some internet hack (aka someone just like MB members here who decided to have a web site) for me.

Now go back and read what I asked for--any specific examples from the last 4 games that anything the guy said is true in any way that adversely affected the game. Running out of bounds at the LOS simply doesn't hurt the team even if it becomes an unnecessary sack stat. For example, going from 2nd and 5 to 3rd and 5 against Cleveland is the same thing as throwing the ball away--loss of a down, same field position. So other than generalizations which may or may not be true, where are the examples.
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One example? Against the Browns this year, 3rd and 10, he had 3 receivers running deep routes, all were under the secondary and well behind the LBs. All were open by NFL standards and an intentional "short" throw to any of them would have been a completion for a first down. He received mild pressure from his right side, the defensive end speed rushed Wade. All Carr had to do was step up into the pocket and look downfield to make the throw. Instead, he instantly takes off running to his left. The rest of the pass protection breaks down because they don't know where their QB is and in what direction to try to block their respective men. Carr runs out of bounds for a 7 yard gain. Translation, 1st down throw becomes a 7 yard gain leading to 4th down punt. Would the receiver have dropped the ball for an incompletion and hold up your theory? We'll never know because we have a QB without pocket presence.

Don't start up with the, "Our O-line sucks so bad he has to run on every play," stuff because that just supports the fact he is scared in the pocket. Whether he is rightly scared due to the pounding he took early in the season doesn't matter. You can't have someone without confidence in the pocket at the QB position. Over the last 3 or so games, rarely have you seen the entire pocket collapse on him. He gets speed rushed by the ends and rather than step-up away from the pressure into the pocket, he holds the ball behind him in the classic QB pose to get it swatted away. On both of the sacks on the last drive against the Jags, he fumbled the ball. Was it because he took a devastating blow or because he held the ball out to get swatted from him?
 
Porky said:
That's sort of the $20,000 question, isn't it? I don't know, but I suspect that teams just caught on to what his strengths were, and went to more cover 2, etc., which he has trouble reading. I wish I had a solid 100% answer. All you have to do is look at his stats from the 1st half, to the 2nd half of last year. The stats don't tell the whole story, but it's easy to see there was a dramatic difference.
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I'll start by saying "I don't know" also. The drop-off seemed to be across the board though. For instance last year Wade looked a lot better in the first half of the season than the last half. At the time I thought that was due to the lingering effects of his (ankle?) injury, but after seeing him this year it may have been something else.
 
mean mark8 said:
One example? Against the Browns this year, 3rd and 9, he had 3 receivers running deep routes, all were under the secondary and well behind the LBs. All were open by NFL standards and an intentional "short" throw to any of them would have been a completion for a first down. He received mild pressure from his right side, the defensive end speed rushed Wade. All Carr had to do was step up into the pocket and look downfield to make the throw. Instead, he instantly takes off running to his left. The rest of the pass protection breaks down because they don't know where their QB is and in what direction to try to block their respective men. Carr runs out of bounds for about a 2 yard loss. Translation, 1st down throw becomes a 2 yard loss. Would the receiver have dropped the ball for an incompletion and hold up your theory? We'll never know because we have a QB without pocket presence.
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There isn't a play that comes close to looking like what you just described in the Full Play by Play at NFL.com. Can you identify what you are talking about--even a guess of quarter anything else since you were able to see and remember everything all the WR's, OL and QB were doing? There is a 3rd and 10 where Carr gets 7 scrambling to the left. There is also a 2nd and 20 play (that the game film doesn't show the coverage on the WR's at all) where Carr could have stayed in the pocket longer but ended up running left for a 1 yd gain but would have had a bunch more if DD hadn't whiffed a block. That was the play immediately before the throw to Gaffney over the middle for a 1st down.
 
infantrycak said:
There isn't a play that comes close to looking like what you just described in the Full Play by Play at NFL.com. Can you identify what you are talking about--even a guess of quarter anything else since you were able to see and remember everything all the WR's, OL and QB were doing? There is a 3rd and 10 where Carr gets 7 scrambling to the left. There is also a 2nd and 20 play (that the game film doesn't show the coverage on the WR's at all) where Carr could have stayed in the pocket longer but ended up running left for a 1 yd gain but would have had a bunch more if DD hadn't whiffed a block. That was the play immediately before the throw to Gaffney over the middle for a 1st down.
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My bad, he got 7 yards when we could have had a first down. Might note, he fumbles the ball out of bounds which I didn't see from my seats at the game as it was on the opposite side of the field. Also, on the play before, which I don't remember from being at the game, he ran up the middle for 1 yard on 2nd and 11.
 
mean mark8 said:
My bad, he got 7 yards when we could have had a first down. Might note, he fumbles the ball out of bounds which I didn't see from my seats at the game as it was on the opposite side of the field.
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Well, I will just compliment you on your ability to watch Carr, the OL and all 3 WR's to know they were all open (amazing that would happen, but OK) all in real time at the game. Be nice if there was an example we could actually go look at rather than rely on a memory and opinion that all 3 WR's were open. Of course if they were, then Carr should have thrown the ball.

Also, on the play before, which I don't remember from being at the game, he ran up the middle for 1 yard on 2nd and 11.
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Wade let the LDE in almost unimpeded. Carr broke an arm tackle from him. The RDE was inside Pitts and the NT collapsed the middle of the pocket--basically a stampede to Carr. Carr avoided the NT to get back to the LOS and avoid the sack.
 
infantrycak said:
Well, I will just compliment you on your ability to watch Carr, the OL and all 3 WR's to know they were all open (amazing that would happen, but OK) all in real time at the game. Be nice if there was an example we could actually go look at rather than rely on a memory and opinion that all 3 WR's were open. Of course if they were, then Carr should have thrown the ball.
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Yeah, I know you get a much better vantage point from tv rather than mid-level seats in the end-zone.
 
mean mark8 said:
Yeah, I know you get a much better vantage point from tv rather than mid-level seats in the end-zone.
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I was at the game as I have been at every home game thank you very much. Personally I find it impossible to watch 3 WR's, the QB and OL all at the same time in real time but hey more power to you if you want to claim that ability.
 
bigTEXan8 said:
wow...I didn't think we could get this low.
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The season is still young.... plenty of room to fall.

I hear Mr. Couch is still looking for a job....

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