Carr Extended for 3 Years

[TexansJunkE]

Just saw on ESPN that we resigned Carr for the 3 yr option and Mike Sherman is gonna be our asst coach. Anyone know when the new conf. is gonna be?

 

[TexanAddict]

would the oilers have pass on drafting Earl Campbell? I could not imagine Campbell not playing for the oilers just because he was from Texas. Remember this words and think about it later if the Texans do not pick VY and go with the "Mattress on my back Carr" they will be sorry.

Wordem? Is that you?

 

[chuckm]

Wordem? Is that you?

hahahahah I was thinking that EXACT thing .... sweet

 

[thunderkyss]

Lets say someone else takes him..doesnt matter who. And you go become their fan.. what if VY breaks his leg and ends his career before it starts? Im not wishing any ill will on him or anything..but assume that did happen.

What are we going to do if Carr breaks his leg?? Carreer ending kinda stuff.





thought I had to put that in there. If we are going to jinx Vince's career, might as well jinx Carr's carreer...........too late...

 

[Tha_Tinman]

The three year deal would be silly. Who cares what signal it sends? No need to nurse the guy, he's a man. If they want to keep him, fine. No reason to guarantee more money/years than necessary to keep him. If they wanna tie up 16-24 million in Carr, then they should put a little money in a realistic backup. See how he handles the competition, be ready in case he finally breaks down. Josh McCown is floating out there.

Josh McCown, Sam Houston State University's finest ...IMO they should've taken Julius Peppers with the 1st pick in 2002 and taken Mccown with a later pick as the 1st quarterback ...we'd be doing a lot better right now!

 

[CaptainPatriot]

I think some people are confusing the questions that others have of Carr. I had no problem until last year and then I watched games more closely and saw things I did not like...work ethic questions, abilities not to fetal and throw balls away, etc. What it all comes down to it for me it isn't taking VY. My problem is that this contract deal with him is bigger than our #1 pick, to some extent, IMHO. You are giving franchise QB money to someone who might not take you anywhere for the next 3 years and who, so far, is only a "good" or "decent" QB. Nothing against the guy but sometimes everyone needs a fresh start......................................and please stop with "VY or whomever would set us back. We have seen playoff teams in Pitt, Cincy, Chicago to some extent...Brady in his second year that put things together. Their teams were better but there is no reason that a good QB in a new system, etc would not be able to make strides.

You make some good points! Look at Plunkett. With his new start. ended up with 2 super bowl wins and 1 MVP!

 

[Grid]

since clairvoyance seems to be such a common trait on this board.. could anyone give me some lottery numbers?

maybe: 8 42 9 1 50 3

as in Carr (#8) will take us to superbowl 43(#43) in 2009 (#9) and we will be number 1 (#1) by winning the game 50 (#50) to 3 (#3).

or do I need to change the 8 to a 10?

 

[CaptainPatriot]

whats going to happen next season when Carr starts to suck again? I would hate to see us playing the Titans and Vince Young in the future and he is having a better game then the Lemon we have. If we get a better line and Carr still sucks we are in major trouble the fans will never let the texans forget that they had a changes to draft VY.

I have the same thoughts! Keeping Carr is like putting Lip Stick and Perfume
on a Pig. It still a Pig! No matter how you dress up the pig. I can see Butt Adams and VY coming into town and torching the Texans game in and game out. 2 -3 Yrs from now Texans build up their D and O-Line. With the Draft and free agents. Then opposing Teams D plays for Carr to beat them. Texans end up like Broncos with Plummer. Can't handle the Pressure! Is it me or does Carr and Plummer have same similarites? It would suck to get all the way to the AFC Championship game and have Carr lose it by making wrong Decisions! I don't think Carr can handle the PRESSURE of a Game of that magnitude! It's time to stop using excuses for Carr! IE: O-Line problems. How is it Brady can lead the league in Passing yards with more problems on the O-Line than Texans O-Line? Brady had 2 Rookies on the left side most of the Year! Brady has no AJ either! Also Texans were 15th(113.5yds.) in rushing PATS were 24th(94.5yds).Teams were TEEING OFF on Brady! Brady was hit just as hard as Carr this year if not more. It comes down to Quick Decisions and Carr just doesn't have it. Carr is FOOL'S GOLD! I would take QB Matt Cassel of the PATS right now over Carr. He already makes good Decisions in his 1st yr! IE:He went up against Miami's #1 D with 3rd string O-Line blocking and almost pulled it off with a win.

 

[chuckm]

Found this on www.profootballtalk.com (usual disclaimers apply)



TEXANS KEEP CARR

The Houston Texans have exercised an $8 million option payment that will extend quarterback David Carr's contract through 2008.

Although, on the surface, the move indicates that the Texans will not select Texas quarterback Vince Young with the No. 1 overall pick in the April draft, John McClain of The Houston Chronicle reports that the decision to keep Carr "has nothing to do with the top pick in the draft."

Um, John. The team's official logo is a starry-eyed bull -- not a steaming pile of bullsh-t. Of course the move has something to do with the top pick in the draft. If the Texans were thinking of trading Carr and taking Young, the Texans would have at least tried to re-work Carr's deal in order to make it more tradeable and/or to avoid handing $8 million to a guy who might not take another snap with the team.

But we likewise don't think that the move means that the Texans are certain to draft USC running back Reggie Bush with the top pick. They could still slide down in round one, stockpiling some extra picks and still getting a guy who could help the offense tremendously, such as Virginia tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

 

[MojoX]

Here is a transcript of the press conference:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2392

 

[TreWardTxn]

It looks like with this resigning, the Texans are either going to draft Bush, or trade down. All I want to say, there is a lot more dispute over whether the Texans are making the right decision (in foregoing drafting Young) at the national level then most posters on this MB believe. Basically, this is not a UT Fans vs. The World argument like many try to taint it...

 

[jerek]

It looks like with this resigning, the Texans are either going to draft Bush, or trade down. All I want to say, there is a lot more dispute over whether the Texans are making the right decision (in foregoing drafting Young) at the national level then most posters on this MB believe. Basically, this is not a UT Fans vs. The World argument like many try to taint it...

Actually, the opposite is very true. You will not hear much about "we must draft Vince" outside of Texas. The fact remains that many if not most scouts/analysts/talent evaluators not only have Leinart as the best QB available in this year's draft, but an overwhelming number of them believe we should draft Bush, with some others falling into the trade down camp.

Hate to say it, but that is the truth of the situation.

 

[lsmoreno56]

Am I the only one that thinks david carr will be the QB to lead the texans to their first playoff berth?(If the rest of the team gets better)

No, you're not the only one. Carr will be the QB when we make the playoffs!

 

[chapone22]

If the team gets better Carr will produce Why don"t they Buy the entire Pro bowl team minus the Quarterback and let Carr play with them ..Well wake up Carr is not a starting quarterback and never will be...The Quarterback gets paid to make things happen and so far the only thing he has improved is his Bank account..If Carr is there next year then be ready to watch the playoffs without the Texans

 

[CaptainPatriot]

No, you're not the only one. Carr will be the QB when we make the playoffs!

I'm curious you said DC will LEAD Texans to playoffs. Are you saying leadership comes from getting better players?

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Having read the transcripts of the press conference I must say I'm very happy about the direction the Texans have taken and Carr has taken. The HC and the QB have to be on the same page. It sounds to me like that is the case. If the doubters would go back and read what was said you can read between the lines about what was not said or ducked.

I think Carr has been a very committed player who has suffered at the hands of a totally inept coaching staff. That is true of every other player on the Texans as well. Look at what Kubiack is saying and you see immediately where the faults lay. I have the feeling once again that we now have a TEAM, not a bunch of individuals. I find it interesting that they say finding Carr was easy and I believe that has always been the case. They are already working together and I think Carr, if he has been dogging it at all, was a result of really not being able to work with the previous staff. Then, I don't think anyone could. I think that was one of the real issues with the previous coaching staff.

You have a very good young coach who seems to be saying a lot of the right things. I hope this translates into what we all want. I'm very impressed with what Kubiack is picking at in his presentations. I felt any coach coming in here, as well as any one we played against, would have analyzed Carr and known what his strengths and weaknesses were. That certainly came out in the press conference. I have a feeling that Carr is more than impressive in their eyes. Apparently Kubiack has liked Carr for some time. May be its not just Houston that lead Kubiack to take the job with the Texans. Kubiack actally made some strong inferences with respect to the O-line. They really have to begin playing like a team. As Kubiack stated its a 50-50 deal. The line must do its part along with the QB.

On another issue I liked what McNair said about finally providing the talent and assets Carr needs if the Texans are to become a winning ball club. Of course its not all about Carr as ONE man does not make a football team. Houston, right now it looks like you are once again on the right path to once again having an NFL team you will be proud to call your own. Let it happen and I think you will all be impressed. Good luck and GOOOO TEXAAAANS......

 

[Vinny]

Hey Ibar. Nice post. If we go with Carr we just have to hang in there and hope for the best.

 

[nunusguy]

If we go with Carr we just have to hang in there and hope for the best.

Now that's what I like to hear Vinny, 'cause you were sounding like a bit of a malcontent very early in the new Gary Kubiak era. But I'm glad you've signed
on and decided to give the new coach your support as he trys to turn the Texans around.

 

[Txn_in_FL]

Just read the article about the extension. To me it seems that come April we are looking at a trade down situation. While I would love to see Bush out there in steel blue I really think trading down is best for the team as a whole.

 

[Malloy]

Just read the article about the extension. To me it seems that come April we are looking at a trade down situation. While I would love to see Bush out there in steel blue I really think trading down is best for the team as a whole.

Tough one, I can come up with arguments both for and against Bush/Young/tradedown so honestly, I have no clue what road we take. Either choice would not come as a surprise to me. Regardless, we are going to get some good players this draft, regardless of what road we take.

 

[Vinny]

Now that's what I like to hear Vinny, 'cause you were sounding like a bit of a malcontent very early in the new Gary Kubiak era. But I'm glad you've signed
on and decided to give the new coach your support as he trys to turn the Texans around.

I don't like much of what I see, so I express a bit of it. I'm not big into being a homer since I'm a football and NFL Fan first, and Texans fan second...but really, what can I do about any decision they make? Nuttin. Just hope for the best and hope they can get something out of Carr over and above what he gave us his first 60 NFL starts. If they can get his play up to his cap hit...my hats off.

 

[bigTEXan8]

All any of us can do is hope for the best and hope that Kubiak turns this team around. I have faith in the fact that he will. He collectively knows more about football than everyone on this board combined, so I think that Kubiak can make this team a better team.

 

[Wolf]

From McClains column:

"Carr’s extension calls for the $8 million bonus and base salaries of $5.25 million this year, $5.5 million in 2007 and $6 million in 2008. As the top pick in the 2002 draft, Carr already has made $22 million over his first four years, not counting incentive bonuses. Barring a career-ending injury and a restructuring for salary-cap purposes, Carr will earn $46.75 million over the first seven years of his career."

BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?

not too bad it is only 110,000 dollars a sack

 

[texanskan]

First the Texans better draft Vince he not only will be better than Carr one day he is better than him now. Second as far as this extention it shows me he will either be the quarterback long term or the Texans will try to trade him and draft Vince. Personally I would of not given Carr the extention and just franchised him then made the decision wheather to start him for a year with Vince as the backup or move him before the start of the season.

 

[bigTEXan8]

not too bad it is only 110,000 dollars a sack

Nice!!! Oh wait...DC just got sacked again.

BF mine. Am I the only one who thinks this is criminal?

What's criminal is the lack of protection this team has provided him over the past four years. What's criminal is the fact that the Texans have gone above and beyond to try and ruin a possibly solid QB, at least that's what it has looked like. Unfortunately, We can't charge the Texans front office with stupidity, you can only tell them they are. I say, if for some reason we do draft VY, and he starts, he succeeds as much as DC did in his first four years.

 

[Nighthawk]

David Carr says:

"Obviously, my career here these first four years hasn't been quite what we wanted it to be, but I know that (Kubiak) can take me to the level that I want to play at, and he can take this team to the level that we need to play at," Carr said. "To my teammates at home, they're going to get everything that I have.


Maybe he means:

"Obviously, I've played as well as I could under the circumstances. The problem is I wasn't coached well, and we had a cruddy offensive line. If we'd had a good offensive line I would have really played great. I wouldn't have been sacked all those times, and I'd have had time to see my receivers, who, by the way, aren't all that good at getting open, so they're kind of hard to see. Anyway, if Kubes can coach up the rest of these stiffs to give me some protection and get open, you'll see a new Me out there next year."

 

[bigTEXan8]

David Carr says:

"Obviously, my career here these first four years hasn't been quite what we wanted it to be, but I know that (Kubiak) can take me to the level that I want to play at, and he can take this team to the level that we need to play at," Carr said. "To my teammates at home, they're going to get everything that I have.


Maybe he means:

"Obviously, I've played as well as I could under the circumstances. The problem is I wasn't coached well, and we had a cruddy offensive line. If we'd had a good offensive line I would have really played great. I wouldn't have been sacked all those times, and I'd have had time to see my receivers, who, by the way, aren't all that good at getting open, so they're kind of hard to see. Anyway, if Kubes can coach up the rest of these stiffs to give me some protection and get open, you'll see a new Me out there next year."

That is probably what he means. I wouldn't be suprised.

 

[CaptainPatriot]

I know you just didn't play the Brady card on me.

That argument has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

First of all yes Montana was taken in the 3rd round, but who was begging for him with the 1st ovrl. pick......NOBODY.

Yes Brady was taken in the 6th round, but who was begging for him with the first ovrl. pick.......NOBODY.

In my argument I questioned why if people truly believed if Carr wasn't the guy at qb, then why haven't people also included Matt Lienart (btw, cause he isn't from Texas) who is a higher rated qb into the discussion with Vince who are just about the only QBs worth taking with our #1 ovrl pick.

By your logic you must assume we should just draft a QB who is projected to go inbetween rounds 3-6 with our #1 ovrl. pick, why because Montana was a 3rd rounder and Brady was a 6th round pick......yeah, that would get us laughed out of the country and straight to the CFL.

Montana and Brady are completely irrelevant to my argument

My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

 

[Texans86]

My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

Umm...last time I checked, Rothlisberger has a ring. He may not have done great getting it, but he has one. That right there should tell people that a team wins the Super Bowl, not a great quarterback.

BTW, I'd be happy if Carr threw 10 ints, 0 TDs and was sacked 15 times in the Super Bowl if we still won the Championship.

 

[Carr Bombed]

My Argument Is QB`s under Pressure LEADERSHIP! Not wether they are 3rd or 6th rounders.There is something that Montana,Brady and VY(at least in College) have. Look at the QB`s of today in recent Playoffs. Vick,Manning,Mcnabb and Roethlisberger. None of these QB`s have it. Ben got lucky because Seattle didn't show up. Ben had the lowest QB rating for a winning QB in SB History. If VY would be there in the 3rd or 6th round then fine. But we know he won't be there that late. As for Lienart doesn't he have a bad knee? Looks like he is damaged goods.He didn't look to good running in that texas game. All I know is in pressure games VY has come threw the last 2 yrs.
Carr doesn't have it when it comes to PRESSURE! I don't care if VY went to Washington,Colorado or even Oklahoma what ever it is he has it! I hate when people bring up stats. Its what you do in the 4th Q that matters! It's how you manage a team down the field. Example just look at Seattle last week. Under Pressure Hasselbeck look like a confused high school QB in the 4th Q. Had great stats all yr but come prerssure time different story. Thats why people are begging for VY at least I am. Also it looks like VY would make players around him better.

Will you stop putting Brady, Montana, and Vince all in the same breath, he hasn't taken one NFL snap. Ryan Leaf had "it" in college, let the guy come in and prove himself before we go ahead and elect him to the HOF. The kind of pressure he faced in college, standing behind the best oline in college facing butter defenses, is nothing compared to facing a real NFL defense standing behind our line.

As far as Vick, Manning, Mcnabb, and Roethlisberger, they all have something Vince doesn't have, a outstanding winning record at the NEXT LEVEL. As far as you saying Ben doesn't have "it", thats rediculous. He has only lost 3 games as a starter and now holds the record for the most wins to start a career over a two year span and took his team to the Superbowl in just his second year. Superbowls aren't a given, Ben could have already accomplished something that Vince never will, winning a championship at the NEXT LEVEL.

As far as Lienart being damaged goods, thats non sense, he doesn't have a bad knee. The reason why he didn't run well is because he is a prototypical pocket passer, not a runner. Also I'm glad that you say, "the only thing that matters is what you do in the fourth quarter", because Lienart had just as many impressive fourth quarters as Vince and played under ALOT more pressure than Vince. He played under the west coast media, had the pressure of carrying a three year winning streak into every game and didn't have the luxury of playing along side the countries best defense.

I'm also glad you hold Leadership so high. Lienart is a team captain, who is a very vocal leader, who led his team to 3 straight conference championships to Vince's 1, 3 straight NC appearences (winning two) to Vince's 1 and gave up Millions and being the #1 ovrl pick to come back and LEAD his team to a third straight championship appearence, if that doesn't say LEADER I don't know what does.

He also did it by running a PRO style offense, which is the reason Scouts and GMs and pretty much everbody else in the country has him rated AHEAD of Vince. If the roles were reversed and Lienart led the horns to one of the best winning streaks in college football history, 2 national championships and had one of the best winning records as a starting college QB in college football history, but lost to Vince and the USC trojans on a 4th and 2 play, this wouldn't even have been close. We would all be reading Draft Matt or Die threads right now and reading about how Matt is God and how Matt is the savior for the Texans. We would be reading how Matt is a great leader and competitor and how Matt his "it", whatever it is.

The only people that have Vince ahead of Matt is people in this state. The overwhelming majority around the country clearly has Matt ahead of him and now people are starting to rate Cuttler ahead of him too, but with all that said and with all the Carr bashing going on and with everybody begging for a new qb, Matt's name is NEVER BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I question the motives and wonder why?

 

[Wolf]

http://www.draftdaddy.com/blog/blog.cfm

We thank our loyal readers for linking our site elsewhere on the Net. We know we have actually become the "village *****s" of draft sites to some, on various message boards (i.e: Texans; Cardinals), because we have dared to project Texas quarterback Vince Young going 10th overall.

Reading responses on some of these boards, we can see some think we are "worthless", "morons", "clueless" or whatever, for not having Young in the top 3, like the other sheep on the Net.

Maybe our opinion of Young's draft status will change after the Combine or Pro Days, but for now we've openly stated our reasons why we think Young is a bit of a risk being drafted real high (see January 5th blog notes). Also, we don't see how projecting a player to be taken 10th overall in the draft is an insult to the player. It's just our opinion of how things will play out... Anyhow, it's nice to know the folks over at the Sporting News are going to also be tagged with the "*****" and "moron" label, as they are now projecting Young to go 10th overall.

Why we think Vince Young "might" last until the 10th overall pick:

Houston -- Some Houston fans seem to think David Carr is about the worst quarterback you can have, but has anybody noticed he has completed over 60% of his attempts, thrown for over 6,000 yards and tossed more TD's than Int's the last 2 seasons (30 TD's; 25 Int's), despite playing on a team that has really struggled to protect him and provide him with weapons?

 

[stevo3883]

Will you stop putting Brady, Montana, and Vince all in the same breath, he hasn't taken one NFL snap. Ryan Leaf had "it" in college, let the guy come in and prove himself before we go ahead and elect him to the HOF. The kind of pressure he faced in college, standing behind the best oline in college facing butter defenses, is nothing compared to facing a real NFL defense standing behind our line.yeah, ohio state and that "butter defense"... if anyone faced butter it was leinart. try and at least be objective.

As far as Vick, Manning, Mcnabb, and Roethlisberger, they all have something Vince doesn't have, a outstanding winning record at the NEXT LEVEL. As far as you saying Ben doesn't have "it", thats rediculous. He has only lost 3 games as a starter and now holds the record for the most wins to start a career over a two year span and took his team to the Superbowl in just his second year. Superbowls aren't a given, Ben could have already accomplished something that Vince never will, winning a championship at the NEXT LEVEL. ben could have accomplished somethign vince never will? what? how about vince has accomplished something ben never will?

As far as Lienart being damaged goods, thats non sense, he doesn't have a bad knee. The reason why he didn't run well is because he is a prototypical pocket passer, not a runner. Also I'm glad that you say, "the only thing that matters is what you do in the fourth quarter", because Lienart had just as many impressive fourth quarters as Vince and played under ALOT more pressure than Vince. He played under the west coast media, had the pressure of carrying a three year winning streak into every game and didn't have the luxury of playing along side the countries best defense. LOL @ this whole paragraph, what a joke... Matt under more pressure? Vince was the whole UT team jesus... the pressure of the west coast media?? he was a media darling they loved him. pressure? pfft.
then vince gets knocked for playing "alongside" a great defense? forget the fact that leinart has nfl caliber players at every skill position and all over the offensive line, vince had underclassmen. you're ridiculouly biased

I'm also glad you hold Leadership so high. Lienart is a team captain, who is a very vocal leader, who led his team to 3 straight conference championships to Vince's 1, 3 straight NC appearences (winning two) to Vince's 1 and gave up Millions and being the #1 ovrl pick to come back and LEAD his team to a third straight championship appearence, if that doesn't say LEADER I don't know what does. a pac-10 conference champ is a joke because they dont even have a champ game. then Matt Leinart played in TWO NC games. the rose bowl against Michigan was not the NC game, seeing how if michigan had won they wouldnt have been national champs. leinart is a good leader but dont exagerrate what he did.he didnt give up millions to come back, he just delayed it a year, and didnt do it solely for the team as he needed shoulder surgery that mightve moved him out of the top spot.

He also did it by running a PRO style offense, which is the reason Scouts and GMs and pretty much everbody else in the country has him rated AHEAD of Vince. If the roles were reversed and Lienart led the horns to one of the best winning streaks in college football history, 2 national championships and had one of the best winning records as a starting college QB in college football history, but lost to Vince and the USC trojans on a 4th and 2 play, this wouldn't even have been close. We would all be reading Draft Matt or Die threads right now and reading about how Matt is God and how Matt is the savior for the Texans. We would be reading how Matt is a great leader and competitor and how Matt his "it", whatever it is.give me a break, USC doesnt run a pro style offense. they run yuor basic run of the mill pac-10 WC offense. no different that Cal or Oregon or many others. and your usc bias shows clearly when u say USC "lost on a 4th and 2 play" when it was texas, and more importantly vince, whom WON it on the 4th and 5 play. this is much like leinarts whiney comments about them being the better team. USC didnt lose the game, Texas won it.

The only people that have Vince ahead of Matt is people in this state. The overwhelming majority around the country clearly has Matt ahead of him and now people are starting to rate Cuttler ahead of him too, but with all that said and with all the Carr bashing going on and with everybody begging for a new qb, Matt's name is NEVER BROUGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION. I question the motives and wonder why?

thats simply not true that the only people that have vince ahead of matt are here. and calling it the "overwhelming majority" is hilarious. please, show some proof for this majority.

and you want to know why no one wants matt? because he would do absolutely no better than Carr here. he is a slower, less mobile, more easily rattled, weaker armed david carr. Vince brings the ability to escape the pocket and avoid pressure that results from a bad oline. the reason the saints want leinart is because they just need a qb who will get the ball to theri playmakers, and thats it. they have all the pieces in place and just want a game manager. Vince is a weapon, matt is a game manager.


and for the record i dont know who they should pick either bush or vince, but lets keep the ridiculouly untrue statements out of our rants, mmkay?

 

[Wolf]

Well Matt won the heisman and his QB rating is a little higher last season compared to his heisman year (not by much)... It isn't like he had a bad season.

What moved him out of the top spot was fresno state and Bush's "heisman" game

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

and 2003 was his best season and no heisman .

 

[stevo3883]

Well Matt won the heisman and his QB rating is a little higher last season compared to his heisman year (not by much)... It isn't like he had a bad season.

What moved him out of the top spot was fresno state and Bush's "heisman" game

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=120511

and 2003 was his best season and no heisman .

what moved him out of the top spot is the fact that he didnt really improve much, but guys like Reggie and Vince improved A LOT.

honestly, with those players, in that offense, against those defenses. he shouldve had better numbers. he shouldve had a wow number like reggie's 8.9ypc

 

[Wolf]

not that I like matt... he completed 72 percent of his passes against Texas.. and that was as close as a NFL defense you could have gotten in college..

I don't really know how much he could have improved. from 156 qb rating from 2004 to 157 qb rating in 2005

even with his season he had in 2003 (162 qb rating) he wouldn't have won it with the way Bush played.

 

[stevo3883]

not that I like matt... he completed 72 percent of his passes against Texas.. and that was as close as a NFL defense you could have gotten in college..

I don't really know how much he could have improved. from 156 qb rating from 2004 to 157 qb rating in 2005

even with his season he had in 2003 (162 qb rating) he wouldn't have won it with the way Bush played.

he couldve had a season with around 4000-4500 yards and 40 td's.

instead his passing stats were comparable to VY's, and vince had that 1000 rushing yards trump card.

 

[MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS]

I know everybody has mixed reactions about David Carr, bust please everyone he is our quarterback and he is from the team we all love. that's why we are on this message board day in a day out, so everyone please give him and our new couching staff all the encouragement they need to climb up this hill and give the great city of Houston a championship someday soon hopefully. GO TEXANS !

 

[Carr Bombed]

ohio state and that "butter defense"... if anyone faced butter it was leinart. try and at least be objective.

Ah....compared to the defenses he's going to face in the NFL....yeah and I guess Texas had a butter defense, because thats the defense Matt faced and he moved the ball up and down the field on them, its just to bad Matt didn't have a defense of that caliber or he would of won the game. As far as being objective....Hello I'm making a case for Matt Lienart, because nobody else is, how more objective can I be, I'm probably the only objective Horn fan on this board.

LOL @ this whole paragraph, what a joke... Matt under more pressure? Vince was the whole UT team jesus... the pressure of the west coast media?? he was a media darling they loved him. pressure? pfft.
then vince gets knocked for playing "alongside" a great defense? forget the fact that leinart has nfl caliber players at every skill position and all over the offensive line, vince had underclassmen. you're ridiculouly biased

I'm glad you got a laugh, because I'm laughing at this whole statement.....Vince was the whole UT team........hahahahahahahaha, I guess he didn't have one of the best all around TEs in the country who BTW caught most of his passes which were mostly HUGE 3rd down conversions in the NC game. I guess Vince didn't have 3 outstanding backs in the backfield who could be rotated in and out. I guess Vince didn't have the countries best defense, you know the one that came up with 2 huge 4th and short stops to save the game, you know the one that has first day prospects riddled all accross the secondary and one of the countries best Dlines. Vince also has very good receivers. Sweed is a mismatch down the field with his size and is very underated. As far as Lienart having nfl caliber players all over the oline, TEXAS' oline was even BETTER. Again I'm a diehard UT fan and I'm making a case for Lienart and you call me biased....hahahhahahhaha. No I'm not biased, but there sure are alot of biased people that post here, I'm not going to name names.

leinart is a good leader but dont exagerrate what he did.he didnt give up millions to come back, he just delayed it a year, and didnt do it solely for the team as he needed shoulder surgery that mightve moved him out of the top spot.

ah yeah he did......Somebody broke down the math on espn radio......The guy literly lost over a million dollars for ever game he played last year. Thats how much money he lost falling out of the top spot. Also he would of been the top pick regardless of the surgury, last years draft was one of the weakest qb drafts and with the 49ers having the top pick Matt would've been the guy.

give me a break, USC doesnt run a pro style offense. they run yuor basic run of the mill pac-10 WC offense. no different that Cal or Oregon or many others.

ah......yes they do run a pro style offense, man and you have the gall to call me biased, their freaking coordinator who designed the offense is now A FREAKING OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR IN THE NFL!

and your usc bias shows clearly when u say USC "lost on a 4th and 2 play" when it was texas, and more importantly vince, whom WON it on the 4th and 5 play. this is much like leinarts whiney comments about them being the better team. USC didnt lose the game, Texas won it.

Oh, really my bias clearly shows........hmm.....what does this show

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

maybe that you don't know what your talking about again I'm a UT fan I have a freaking tatto, I love Vince and appreciate everything he did for Texas, I'm just not biased and seperate college from the NFL and was making a case for Lienart because nobody else is and that proves there are bias and favortism towards Young because he's from Texas.
USC lost the game on a 4th and 2 play, they would have won the game if they converted. Texas won the game when they stopped USC on 4th and 2, they would have lost if they didn't stop USC, Whichever way you want me to put it, there it is.

thats simply not true that the only people that have vince ahead of matt are here. and calling it the "overwhelming majority" is hilarious. please, show some proof for this majority.

Ah...go look at just about every mock written in the country and most polls, they all have Matt ahead of Young.

and you want to know why no one wants matt? because he would do absolutely no better than Carr here. he is a slower, less mobile, more easily rattled, weaker armed david carr.].

I love it how yall can tell the future......again you have the gall to call me biased.

and for the record i dont know who they should pick either bush or vince, but lets keep the ridiculouly untrue statements out of our rants, mmkay?

WOW after reading your quotes I was thinking the exact same thing, I guess you can predict the future.

Now excuse me I have to run to KFC, before it closes to get some dinner. BB in 25 minutes

 

[stevo3883]

Ah....compared to the defenses he's going to face in the NFL....yeah and I guess Texas had a butter defense, because thats the defense Matt faced and he moved the ball up and down the field on them, its just to bad Matt didn't have a defense of that caliber or he would of won the game. As far as being objective....Hello I'm making a case for Matt Lienart, because nobody else is, how more objective can I be, I'm probably the only objective Horn fan on this board. Ohio state's secondary and LB crew is better than ours (the texans, especially their linebackers). i meant be objective as in dont sound like a total leinart homer. Im sorry but constantly saying "im a huge ut fan" and then constantly trashing texas dont go hand in hand.

I'm glad you got a laugh, because I'm laughing at this whole statement.....Vince was the whole UT team........hahahahahahahaha, I guess he didn't have one of the best all around TEs in the country who BTW caught most of his passes which were mostly HUGE 3rd down conversions in the NC game. I guess Vince didn't have 3 outstanding backs in the backfield who could be rotated in and out. I guess Vince didn't have the countries best defense, you know the one that came up with 2 huge 4th and short stops to save the game, you know the one that has first day prospects riddled all accross the secondary and one of the countries best Dlines. Vince also has very good receivers. Sweed is a mismatch down the field with his size and is very underated. As far as Lienart having nfl caliber players all over the oline, TEXAS' oline was even BETTER. Again I'm a diehard UT fan and I'm making a case for Lienart and you call me biased....hahahhahahhaha. No I'm not biased, but there sure are alot of biased people that post here, I'm not going to name names a few things- Texas did not have the countries best defense... usc scored 38, I would say tOSU had the best D in the nation.
USC's skill players are amazingly good. i mean try to downplay it all you want but they are exactly why USC was favored by over a TD. Texas had a much better defense and they were STILL 8 POINT UNDERDOGS. Texas had underclassmen at every skill position.

ah yeah he did......Somebody broke down the math on espn radio......The guy literly lost over a million dollars for ever game he played last year. Thats how much money he lost falling out of the top spot. Also he would of been the top pick regardless of the surgury, last years draft was one of the weakest qb drafts and with the 49ers having the top pick Matt would've been the guy. well they screwed up because the #1 pick alex smith got 50 million last year, leinart @ #2 will probably get around 45 million. he played 12 games, math obviously doesnt work out.


ah......yes they do run a pro style offense, man and you have the gall to call me biased, their freaking coordinator who designed the offense is now A FREAKING OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR IN THE NFL! and what does that prove? if greg davis goes to the nfl next year, does that mean texas ran a pro-style offense? your proof is really bad, as the titans dont run usc's offense.



Oh, really my bias clearly shows........hmm.....what does this show

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

maybe that you don't know what your talking about again I'm a UT fan I have a freaking tatto, I love Vince and appreciate every thing he did for Texas, I'm just not biased and seperate college from the NFL and was making a case for Lienart because nobody else is and that proves there are bias and favortism towards Young because he's from Texas. this is such BS, i would hate to have a fan like u. you act like some honest unbiased fan but all you do is trash VY and praise all things matty did
USC lost the game on a 4th and 2 play, they would have won the game if they converted. Texas won the game when they stopped USC on 4th and 2, they would have lost if they didn't stop USC, Whichever way you want me to put it, there it is. there were over two 1/2 minutes left and texas had either 2 or 3 timeouts. the game was not over by any means. Vince won the game. stop it with that BS "USC lost it" trash,

and i already explained to you why no one wants matt

Ah...go look at just about every mock written in the country and most polls, they all have Matt ahead of Young.


I love it how yall can tell the future......again you have the gall to call me biased. what? every thing i posted was true. Leinart is slower *FACT*, weaker armed*FACT* gets rattled easier *FACT* he might be better than carr in another system, but not with our oline. and thats the point, use common sense.



WOW after reading your quotes I was thinking the exact same thing, I guess you can predict the future.

Now excuse me I have to run to KFC, before it closes to get some dinner. BB in 25 minutes

KFC is for chumps get some wingstop, its where us national champs like to eat.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Ohio state's secondary and LB crew is better than ours (the texans, especially their linebackers). i meant be objective as in dont sound like a total leinart homer. Im sorry but constantly saying "im a huge ut fan" and then constantly trashing texas dont go hand in hand.

Ah...your crazy if you think Ohio had a better defense than a Pro team. Also I would love for you to show me where I trashed Texas.......please show me and I'm not a leinart homer, I'm simply playing devils advocate and am asking why he isn't brought into the argument when his numbers are just as good and better in some cases and he did it over a longer period of time.

Texas did not have the countries best defense... usc scored 38

Yeah...maybe you should give USC some credit for accomplishing that. That isn't a knock against Texas, USC was just that good on offense.

USC's skill players are amazingly good. i mean try to downplay it all you want but they are exactly why USC was favored by over a TD. Texas had a much better defense and they were STILL 8 POINT UNDERDOGS. Texas had underclassmen at every skill position.

Texas' skill players are also amazingly good, Texas just like USC has had the one of the highest ranking recruiting classes in the country over the past 5 years, maybe you should stop downplaying them. Also the reason why USC was favorites had more to do with the hype and the fact that they were the reining champions and the stigma that Brown couldn't win the big one. Also underclassmen doesn't mean anything all that matters is can you play or not, Texas has players that can play, Clerret as a Freshman lead Ohio to a national championship

well they screwed up because the #1 pick alex smith got 50 million last year, leinart @ #2 will probably get around 45 million. he played 12 games, math obviously doesnt work out.

There you go predicting the future again....you don't know how much Leinart is going to get paid, regardless by this quote you are now admitting that Leinart did give up millions to return. By your math 5 million dollars-thats alot of money.

and what does that prove? if greg davis goes to the nfl next year, does that mean texas ran a pro-style offense? your proof is really bad, as the titans dont run usc's offense.

Well Texas ran more of a pro offense before Vince took over, but they had to put him in a spread offense...so no. If you don't think USC ran a pro offense then you either didn't watch them play or your in denial and your ignoring the facts to support your argument. How about you go post a poll and ask the question which QB ran a pro offense Vince or Matt, then come back and tell me what the results were.

there were over two 1/2 minutes left and texas had either 2 or 3 timeouts. the game was not over by any means. Vince won the game. stop it with that BS "USC lost it" trash,

Wow you do know how to read don't you here let me post it again

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18302&highlight=ROME

I started a whole thread on this crap
By saying USC lost the game I mean Texas won and USC lost, stop trying to spin my words to support your views

and i already explained to you why no one wants matt.

Yeah nobody wants Matt he is only expected to be the first QB taken in the draft

Leinart is slower *FACT*.

Speed is good to have, but its not a be all end all for QBs, you just have to have escapability and Matt has that, he is faster than Tom Brady, Manning, and Palmer, I guess those guys suck too.

weaker armed*FACT*.

I agree he has a weaker arm, but his arm is more than adequate and its not like Young's arm isn't in question, it goes both ways.

gets rattled easier *FACT*.

That is not a FACT and is your OPINION, one which I don't agree with by the way, Leinart showed more than once this year he can take a hit, handle pressure, and battle back. After suffering a mild concussion against ND he rallied his team and threw clutch passes on the run on key 4th down plays.

Against Texas where he was shaken up and dazed and was nearly knocked out before half time, he came back out and played lights out football, I believe the only incompletion he had was the last pass of the game as time was running out.

KFC is for chumps get some wingstop, its where us national champs like to eat.

I was stationed up here in Mich. and if we had a WINGSTOP it might be a option, but we don't. I would rather take Popeyes over KFC, but we don't have one of those either. We have KFC and Booger King and Ill gladly take KFC over Booger King.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

You guys are making me hungry

 

[stevo3883]

-neither vince nor matt ran a pro-style offense

-saying what leinart will get paid isnt predicting the future, its called educated assumption. look at philip rivers contract. eli mannings. alex smith's.

-Matt being the 1st qb taken has more to do with the saints than with him being superior to vince. vince is by far the superior prospect, but some teams might not want to take the chance since he has that "raw" stigma.

-Leinart isnt nearly as good an athlete as carson palmer and is not as fast as brady. He has the footspeed of manning, ie- none

-Vince's arm isnt in question by anyone who has actually seen him play, not sure what you're talking about there.

-its common knowledge to get to usc u have to hit leinart in the mouth. saying he gets rattled easier than carr isnt much of a knock on him, as carr is one of the most resilient qb's ive ever seen. but ive seen matt shaken up badly multiple times.

-michigan is obviously an inferior state judging by their lack of wingstop

 

[tulexan]

You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.

 

[mexican_texan]

You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.

Even the cement-footed Drew Bledsoe had a rushing touchdown. I don't know if any of you remember, but Leinart was in a couple of SuperBowl commercials.

 

[stevo3883]

You also have to factor endorsements into the equation. Leinart coming off of a Heisman winning season, Rose Bowl MVP, and #1 pick probably would have earned some coin from sponsers.

Leinart may not be the fastest of QB's, but he is faster than Peyton Manning and is probably close to Brady. He had several rushing touchdowns this year, and if you watched USC play, a lot of them weren't goal line dives like in the Notre Dame game.

i believe leinart was into negative rushing yards for the season...

 

[tulexan]

He had 51 rushes for 36 yards and 6 touchdowns. I believe in college sacks go against rushing yards unlike the NFL where it goes against passing yards. So you have to take that into account too.

 

[stevo3883]

ah yeah i knew it was either 36 or -36.

all i know is i heard so much stuff from usc fans about how VY couldnt run much better than matt, because he had 6 td's.

 

[Carr Bombed]

-neither vince nor matt ran a pro-style offense.

Man wake up USC ran a pro-style offense.

http://sportsgambling.about.com/od/upcomingactionpreview/a/CFB1227_2.htm

"What makes this group most difficult to defend is that it can beat you in so many different ways. The Trojans have the nation's fourth-ranked rushing offense and fifth-ranked passing attack. The Trojans operate out of a traditional pro-style offense, employing a two-back, two-receiver, one-tight end personnel grouping as its base package. Their offense is led by one time Heisman trophy winner, (also a finalist this year), QB Matt Leinart (3,450 passing yards& a 27/7 TD/INT ratio), is allowed the freedom most NFL QBs are given in terms of play calling and checking off at the line of scrimmage."

and heres another article discussing a QB who played in the spread offense that Vince ran and how yet again Matt ran a Pro Style offense.

http://blogs.foxsports.com/sportstraveler/2005/12/16/Bust_a_Move_QB_Smith_not_getting_it_done_in_San_Francisco

and here's another mention of USC's pro-style offense and how it might help USC's backup Matt Cassel get a job at the next level

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2005/modglin031005.htm

"Former Jets QB Ken O’Brien has developed a friendship with Cassel over time and is working with him nearly every day, fine-tuning his footwork, timing and release. Cassel is grateful for such mentoring. He is constantly throwing to Trojans receivers, running and working out with future draftees and hoping that his knowledge of USC’s complex, pro-style offense will only help his chances, slim as they may be. The tutelage he adhered to doesn’t hurt, either. Head coach Pete Carroll has pro head-coaching experience. Norm Chow, his offensive coordinator, recently moved up on the ladder to take the same title with the Titans."

and heres a profile of USC's right tackle who is expected to go high in the draft.....Why?, because he has three years of playing in a PRO-STYLE offense.

http://nfldraftblitz.com/Profiles/winstonjusticeprofile.htm

Do you want me to go on?

-saying what leinart will get paid isnt predicting the future, its called educated assumption. look at philip rivers contract. eli mannings. alex smith's.

Every contract is different and anything can happen like holdouts or whatever. Winslow istantly became the highest paid TE when he signed his rookie contract.

-Matt being the 1st qb taken has more to do with the saints than with him being superior to vince. vince is by far the superior prospect, but some teams might not want to take the chance since he has that "raw" stigma.

Young is the better athlete, but Matt is projected to be the better Quaterback prospect, because he is more of your prototypical pocket passer and the fact that he has ran a Pro-style offense for the past 3 years. He translates much better to the next level and that makes him a higher rated prospect.

-Leinart isnt nearly as good an athlete as carson palmer and is not as fast as brady. He has the footspeed of manning, ie- none.

Leinart is faster than Carson and accomplished more than he did at the college level. Carson has a stronger arm, but Matt has a more than adequate arm and he is as fast as Brady which isn't saying much, Brady's speed isn't much to brag about.

-Vince's arm isnt in question by anyone who has actually seen him play, not sure what you're talking about there.

I agree with you, I don't think Youngs arm is going to be a problem I was just saying there have been questions, I think he does need to straighten out the throwing motion just a tad.

-its common knowledge to get to usc u have to hit leinart in the mouth. saying he gets rattled easier than carr isnt much of a knock on him, as carr is one of the most resilient qb's ive ever seen. but ive seen matt shaken up badly multiple times.

Again thats your opinion, What I've seen from Matt he has done very well under pressure and has come back from being "hit in the mouth".

-michigan is obviously an inferior state judging by their lack of wingstop

I agree Michigan sucks, I hate it here, but duty calls and I won't be here forever, god I miss Texas women, laid back and easy going.

 

[stevo3883]

please, show me one team that runs an offense even slightly similar to USC's.

to be a "pro-style offense" a pro team would have to run an offense like thiers. This cliche is stupid because there isnt an nfl team that runs a basic WCO like USC. USC runs a "pac-10 offense" not a "pro style offense"

 

[Wolf]

huh?

are straws being grasped here?

I am lost after that statement