Career Numbers on RB/VY Take a LOOK...

[TreWardTxn]

I don't want to hear another post about Vince Young being "a better RB" than Reggie, and I CERTAINLY do not want to hear that "Vince Young did the job of Leinart, Bush and White all at the same time". It is a COMPLETELY different ANIMAL when you are dealing with a QB who can run as opposed to a RB. Do NOT bring that topic up again... it is uncomparable.

The fact is that by the end of Reggie's junior year, the hype was all on him. Vince Young was still a "who is that??", but Reggie took the stage long before the Rose Bowl. Defenses did everything they could to counteract him. When it is a QB, there is NO ONE who is set man-to-man with him unless they have a spy behind the line who acts both as QB contain and coverage. There is nothing more they can do in the NFL. That approach works fine to shut down Mike Vick, who you stated was a better runner that Vince is. So what does that mean?

Yes, it means that someone will be pulled off of a full zone coverage just to babysit Vince for the whole game. But what if Vince doesnt have his O-line anymore? What if he had an O-line that had no intentions of letting him break a 12 yard dash on every play? He would be forced to stay in the pocket.... which makes him less useful than Matt Leinart. Next year defenses will be taking away both Vince's running ability and his confidence. Leinart will go through the League as an above-average QB who never did anything unpredictable but was always reliable. How can you rely on someone who wants to play the entire game of football by himself? You can't.

The fact is, his abilities will be his downfall. He will end up being a Mike Vick (Overall rating of 73, and will be desperate this year to bring it up to a more respectable level if he wants to wear the Falcon helmet again in '07). Vince threw for more yards, but he wasnt injured like Mike was in college. Don't even make me get into the argument about how injury prone Vince will be in the NFL. All I have to say is.... one of the times that he tries to break a run and he doesnt notice an NFL LB closing on him fast, it will be his last game. He may be a big boy but he has never been a RB before, he has no idea what it feels like to take the hits.

Truth be told, I like the guys talent. Remember, my post is based on the idea of if Vince Young comes to the Texans, not any other team. If he goes to the Raiders, he may be able to generate huge numbers both with his feet and his hands. But not here. The O-line we have is not strong enough yet to support his habits. Maybe Todd Wade will go to the Raiders to help Vince.

If you have a real point to make, then make it, but to sit here and say things like 'Young won't be able to take an NFL hit' are from beyond left field. Yeah, he's gonna get hit harder then he ever been in his life, every rookie get's that. But I bet you one thing, there's gonna be a time when an LB comes up on him and gets a two-step, and other times when he manhandles some DB on his way to a first down. If anyone has seen Young run they know he likes to take a good lick. He's already been hit by Hawk (said it was the hardest ever), got up and gave him a good pat on the helmet. He's not some Payton Manning type who gets pissy when he gets a grass stain.

99.9% of offensive players need a good line to be Pro Bowl successful (I'm only leaving out Barry) and of course both these guys will as well. If anything Young's ability to run will be a treat for an offense because it allows him to stay alive and make plays. His movement from the pocket isn't scripted and therefore the O-line doesn't need to block in any unified way once he's on the move, they just need to try to get in the way of a defender.

As for your "Who's that guy?" comment. Someone already pointed out how ridiculous that was...

 

[thunderkyss]

Seriously. If you follow the non-logic/wilfull disregard of some folks in this thread the greatest single mistake of the ousted coaching staff was not designing rushing plays for Carr and going to an offense like VY ran since Carr is the greatest rusher in the NFL other than Vick---the ypc prove it.

The biggest mistake of the old regime, was coming up with that 1 step 3 step drop crap........ More shotgun, more bootlegs, more moving the pocket, tosses and pitches so the RBs attack the edges of the line.... there were so many things they could've/should've done to ease the pressure in the middle of the line.

Truth be told, I like the guys talent. Remember, my post is based on the idea of if Vince Young comes to the Texans, not any other team. If he goes to the Raiders, he may be able to generate huge numbers both with his feet and his hands. But not here. The O-line we have is not strong enough yet to support his habits. Maybe Todd Wade will go to the Raiders to help Vince.

That's a homer argument if I ever heard one. Vince won't do well here, but if the Raiders picks up one of our discarded linemen, he'll excell...... :brickwall

 

[infantrycak]

You might feel a little bit differently next year when Carr bootlegs a lot, and on more than one occassion picks up a good 10-12 yard gain. Not exactly a designed run, but if it's there, why not? Kubiak's job is to get the most out of Carr as possible; he is athletic, he can run, he's not good enough to not use all his tools and still succeed...

I won't be surprised at all if Carr bootlegs out frequently next year and picks up 10-12 yds--he did it last year to get his 5.5 ypc and picked up 1st downs 36% of the time he rushed. The point is everyone on this thread acting like a comparison of ypc between QB's and RB's is meaningful at all are simply making up an entirely specious argument in a transparent attempt to create yet another reason for drafting VY. Michael Vick and David Carr had higher average ypc last year than every starting RB in the league--they are not better rushers than Larry Johnson, LT, Portis, etc. David Carr has a career average of 4.8 (on 215 attempts) which is higher than every RB except Larry Johnson--he is not a better rusher than LT, Edge, Portis, etc..

This has to be one of the dumbest arguments ever cooked up around here.

 

[Frank_The_Tank]

o.k. 214 carries, not minus all the sacks LOL If you measure that figure in Carr has negative rushing yards. You guys are trying so hard but your facts are way off. It is so funny how easy it is to prove that Bush is all hype! It amazes me what kind of crap you pro-Bush guys can come up with. LOL

 

[Frank_The_Tank]

It is kinda weird that you pro-Bush guys are not responding so well towards the numbers, LOL. When can you bring a honest argument. Tell how Reggie Bush is a better runner than Vince Young. Show me numbers, you know what you can't! Bush, #1 overall, o.k. I just don't see it! All media driven. After we see that price tag we will trade down so it does not matter. He is not worth the money, given that we have a starting Rb and we drafted one last year.

 

[CarrIsFine]

o.k. 214 carries, not minus all the sacks LOL If you measure that figure in Carr has negative rushing yards. You guys are trying so hard but your facts are way off. It is so funny how easy it is to prove that Bush is all hype! It amazes me what kind of crap you pro-Bush guys can come up with. LOL

Bush is all hype? He's rated # 1 overall by most scouts and anlaysts.

Seems to me Young fans are in denial. To ease the sorrow you have to harp on college stats. How many times have the college players with the best stats been a bust in the NFL?

So really we don't know at this point who will be better in the NFL. What we do know is the Texans signed Carr and have faith in him. Using simple logic, they are not drafting VY. But hey, if bashing Bush and Carr and projecting college stats to the NFL help pass the time unitl Bush puts on the Texans hat, be my guest.

 

[Frank_The_Tank]

Projecting college stats is just a non-bias factual proof that Vince is better. 99% of the media were making quotes about how Lindale White would be a better NFL Running Back during the college season. Once Vince declared for the draft, Reggie Bush was all they wanted to talk about. Kinda wierd, HMMM? Now the media slams Vince as much as they possibly can. Look at many of the mock drafts, they all have problems with Vinces Accuracy, hello, have you seen his passing efficiency. They come up with the most off the wall crap; none of it has any factual base its all fiction. They have to dig and grind looking for reasons to Slam Vince. They portray Reggie as this special team superman, he only has 4 TD’s total on special teams in three years. Yea he is something special.. O.K.

 

[KSig44]

Which is harder to do, stand out on a team of superstars or stand out on a team of average players? VY has the luxury of touching the ball ever play. Unfortunatly, Bush plays runningback and he doesn't have that luxury. That is why this comparison is crap. Special teams aside, just counting passing attempts, rushing attempts and receptions by both players, VY has had his hand in 1176 total plays to Bush's 531. Yeah, that is fair statistical comparison.

 

[TreWardTxn]

Thank you for making the exact point for the Draft Young" crowd. If you have the choice between a gamebreaking QB and gamebreaking RB you pick the QB every time because they will touch the ball every play and effect the defense every snap. If the general consensus is that QB is the most important position on the field (assuming you have the means to protect him), then of course the QB is going to impact the game more than a running back. Especially if its unknown whether the running back will be able to touch the ball for more than 25 plays. Young has the better chance of elevating the play of his teammates; miss a block, he buys time in the pocket. 3rd and 5, defenses must respect his ability to run and spy him, leaving backs and short routes wide open...

 

[KSig44]

Yes, I don't disagree with that. But the fact is you will have to wait on Young for 2 years to learn the system behind the veteran while Bush is ready to contribute immediatly. And based on the Texans want to win immediatly that is why Bush will go #1. Never mind the cap hit you take on Carr if you trade or cut him. You don't have to trade or cut DD immediatly because more than two RB's can be on the field at the same time. Plus I did en evaluation on ypc for a QB in an earlier post. It's not vast enough of an imporvment from Carr to what a VY can offer to use the first pick on him.

 

[TreWardTxn]

Let's not make it a financial decision, let's make it a football decision. And yes, if you want the best chance to win next year, then go with Bush, but if you're talking about the long term success of this team (runnings backs have the shortest careers of any position) you go with the QB.

 

[KSig44]

The immidiate return outweighs the longterm success since we are looking at 3 things.

A) the talent difference is an unknown, both are coming in highly touted. In the end, they should both be great players so it is a wash.
B) A QB takes longer to groom in the NFL, Running Backs have lees of a learning curve. Advantage Bush
C) Both are marketable, but Bush gives you a greater national coverage while VY gives more of a regional one. Who will sell more jerseys? Advantage Bush

 

[TreWardTxn]

The immidiate return outweighs the longterm success since we are looking at 3 things.

A) the talent difference is an unknown, both are coming in highly touted. In the end, they should both be great players so it is a wash.
B) A QB takes longer to groom in the NFL, Running Backs have lees of a learning curve. Advantage Bush
C) Both are marketable, but Bush gives you a greater national coverage while VY gives more of a regional one. Who will sell more jerseys? Advantage Bush

Since we're assuming both players will be good players then...

A)Quarterbacks last longer in the league than running backs on average
B)No one will realistically say this team is winning a championship next year,that only makes it a one year wait (McNair sat two years)
C)I could care less about their marketability, but I know Young would receive more fan support and make the Texans the most popular team in Texas. The national coverage comes by winning playoff games, and historically, QBs are given more media attention. If the Texans do win, all the credit (and commercials) will go to Carr. (moot point)