b0ng
Bad Hombre
VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.
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Cam Newton
- Thread starter Texecutioner
- Start date
VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Yes, just look at his throws at the combine. There have been plenty of QB's who could rock decent completion percentages in college but not in the pro game. I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I'm not saying Newton is going to be terrible as a pro and will amount to nothing, I am saying that Newton has a lot of ****ing flaws for a #1 overall pick to have.
Again, the college game and the pro game are different speeds much less different games in nuance and such. Taking a guy that high who made most of his money with his feet and shaking off pass rushers on the college level is inviting the worst sorts of disasters to befall your team. First round? Sure I'd take a flyer on the guy, he did a hell of a lot in college and you could probably work with him to make him serviceable and maybe even good. But at #1 you need a guy who can probably step in and start, and right now, Newton looks to be about the least NFL-ready QB in this draft.
Hagar
Drink up yall, its the Texans!
Oh, this is like a sound clip by a reporter who only looks at one side of the issue. Yes, Kerry went 13-3 in 2008, then went 0-6 in 2009. After which VY brought the team back with what record??? I don't think I'd hang my hat on Kerry Collin's reputation.
Do I think VY is an NFL caliber QB? No, he's got to grow up first. But to say this man doesn't have talent, is not exactly correct either. Let's face it, he's playing for Bud Adams who's main reason for drafting him was to get back at Houston (speculation of course, but I think I'm right).
I don't want to misinterpret what you want to say.
You are concerned that he hasn't been under center much, which is a legitimate concern if your team run a pro set.
But when you said that, you forgot about guys like Gabbert who has never been under center (correct me if I'm wrong).
I have repeated a few times that I am not talking about the number one prospect overall in the draft (because I don't study the top-rated defensive guys closely - to me that means at least seven games watched, isolating on the subject; learning about the oppositions that the guy faces; etc.)
Here, I'm only talking about who I think is the number one QB prospect in this draft; therefore, it is easy for me to choose Newton over Gabbert (and the rest.)
I've posted in a different thread that in the 3-4 snaps per game that Newton was under center, I had seen him perform all the tasks a pro-set QB is required to perform, including play action fake drop back pass, seven-step drop back pass, fake reverse then pass, play action fake then roll out pass, besides handing the ball off to the RB in a one-back or two back set.
Not one single mishap in those intances (correct me if I missed any of his mistake in this department.)
In the running game, Newton is more ready to adapt to the pro game (than Gabbert for example) since his offense operates with 2 and even 3 backs quite often.
It's a unique system in which there is an I-formation (among others) in their running game.
In other words, Newton already understands the concept of playing with a FB and a true TE (unlike some other QBs in this draft, including Gabbert who doesn't know what a FB nor a TE is.)
So when you said Newton is the least-NFL-ready QB, I have to strongly disagree, sorry!
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Here's what a "overwhelmed and undersized Oregon defense" does for you.
Before even attempting a pass, Newton was sacked twice (quickly) and had to pull up and run 5 times (because pressure was getting super hot).
The numbers that I gathered here may be incorrect, but any miscount only works against Newton.
Newton was 20-35 for the game (57%, which is under his norm) and 265 yards (7.6 yd per attempt, which is still good).
What you may not realize is that out of the 15 attempts that he didn't connect, I counted something like 13 when he was under pressure, mostly heavy, or enough to force him to throw a hair early, scramble and try to complete a pass, or simply just throw the ball away.
The other 3 were dropped passes (including the one in the end zone where the intended receiver should have turned around once he got into the end zone to look for the pass when he was wide open, but for whatever reason kept going toward the side line; and the one in which the receiver didn't pay attention to where he was along the side line - Newton was under some pressure on this one also.)
There were at least 4 occasions where Newton somehow completed the pass with heavy heavy pressure boring down on him.
There were at least 5 completed short passes in which the pressure was coming. You're talking about 1-1/2 second something like that. Without a quick release, and a couple of quick decisions, these would have resulted in incompletions as well.
It doesn't matter whether it was the SEC or the NFL or Pee Wee league, a QB under pressure is always less effective just the same.
Again, as I've said, this is the exact opposite of what Gabbert saw in the Insight Bowl or Leinart saw in the Rose Bowl (and other games for both of them).
And it's only the beginning of why I believe Newton is more advance than most QBs in the draft since the Texans organization first started.
I like Sam Bradford as well, but I am not sure (that I can recall) Bradford perform as well under constant pressure throughout the whole game like that
Now, I do admit here there's a plus but also a minus, the fact that he was able to avoid pressure.
The minus is we don't know how he will stand up to the hits in the NFL.
The plus is that he very well could continue to know how to apply himself to the situation, that is to avoid getting hit in the first place.
And this could prolong his career longer than those who's too willing to stand in the pocket to make a play (like Kolb when he was at UH and also with the Eagles.)
The minus is we don't know how he will stand up to the hits in the NFL.
The plus is that he very well could continue to know how to apply himself to the situation, that is to avoid getting hit in the first place.
And this could prolong his career longer than those who's too willing to stand in the pocket to make a play (like Kolb when he was at UH and also with the Eagles.)
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Here is one of the latest write ups on Cam Newton from Pro football Weekly which goes right along with what I described my opinions of the guy when I started the thread. Interesting take though and I stand pat that an early Cam Newton pick will be a huge mistake. Buyer Beware is all over Cam Newton.
Read Below.
Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...e-rips-Newton-personally-8211-h?urn=nfl-wp657
Read Below.
Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...e-rips-Newton-personally-8211-h?urn=nfl-wp657
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason. Some of it is understandable, but i can't see Auburn being as successful as they were if the bolded was true. Teams typically come apart if that stuff is going on..Auburn did nothing but circle the wagons when all that crap was swirling around him.
I don't think he'll be all that good but my opinion of him is based purely off of his game & how it's going to translate to the NFL. This dude just did a pyschoanalysis on him..
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Nawrocki is one of the most respected scouts out there, so his word does carry some weight.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I think you meant to say, He obviously has it in for the guy for racists reasons.
You are Warren Moon aren't you?
It sounded more like an April fool joke, but if I run an organization, I wouldn't turn a blind eye on anything.
The fact is, however, that this is an entertainment business.
Each owner has a different business model.
Some may think of it more as family entertainment; others may think of it Hollywood style or Las Vegas style.
Some owner may have a zero tolerance policy on certain things, while others may not share the same view.
It is quite possible that Newton may be dropped off the list of some teams; but that is just pure speculation on my part.
I'm just saying that it's up to each team to decide what their policies are regarding recruitment/employment.
I'm not even saying that I would sign off on drafting Newton if I was an owner.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Don't put words in my mouth...As i understand it, he's never met Cam Newton & its irresponsible of him as a journalist to write some of what he did without even having met the guy. Furthermore, that "whatever reason" could be anything including what you suggest i mean.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Ummm, I was using humour.
Have you not read that Moon came out on this being a race issue.
I was taking your post as an opportunity to poke fan at him, not you.
Warren: You are a wife beating scum,
You suck
Choker
Buffalo
Racist
You suck
Choker
Buffalo
Racist
There were rumors regarding JaMarcus Russell's (lack of) work ethic prior to the 2007 draft. But no one came out and put their name next to them, as Nawrocki has with Newton. I think with the instant news that's available (twitter, blogs, etc.), the internet journalists feel the need to one up each other. Fans are always craving more and more info, but sometimes we get what seems to be too much. I think you could find someone to say something negative about any prospect entering the draft, if you tried. Cam Newton's the biggest name in this draft, thus the biggest target.
Warren Moon playing the race card -
Warren Moon playing the race card -
Newton was in a one read and go system. He has light years to go before he will be able to read pro defenses. He's going to be just like VY, he will have to rely on his athletic ability to survive. My bet is he is VY 2. He'll never make it. To much ego and not near enough drive or technique to be a succesful pro QB.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Has anybody considered that the Oilers would still be in Houston. If Moon spent as much time preparing for games as he did in the gentlemens clubs. (Sorry Bill)
Thanks Warren you wife beater/choker.
Thanks Warren you wife beater/choker.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There were rumors regarding JaMarcus Russell's (lack of) work ethic prior to the 2007 draft. But no one came out and put their name next to them, as Nawrocki has with Newton. I think with the instant news that's available (twitter, blogs, etc.), the internet journalists feel the need to one up each other. Fans are always craving more and more info, but sometimes we get what seems to be too much. I think you could find someone to say something negative about any prospect entering the draft, if you tried. Cam Newton's the biggest name in this draft, thus the biggest target.
Warren Moon playing the race card -
i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
There were a ton of people trying to present Jamarcus Russell as this next big thing. Right after he had that huge bowl game he got enormous hype. I never understood it at the time since he was never even a Heisman candidate. He was good in all in college but after that bowl game he became the filet Minon of QB's all of a sudden. Cam's a better athlete than Jamarcus Russell, but there are waaaayyyy more questions surrounding Cam Newton's character and his history already than what Jamarcus ever had. Cam may not be as lazy and he might be more athletic, but he's not more refined as a passer at all, and that's ultimately what you're looking for. Cam has already had the scandals in college, he's already talking about himself in 3rd person, and he already has a very poor reputation as far as his attitude is concerned way before this recent scout report was issued out. It's not weird that this one came out at all, and the fact that Warren Moon made this issue into one about race when black and white QB's are criticized coming into the draft every off season just puts a big egg on Warren Moon face and might have cost him a media job down the line since he's been trying to work up the ladder for quite a few years.
If you're tired, try taking a nap. Because I'm going to say pretty much what I want.
And it is OK for Nawrocki to say what he wants. Then, he will be judged by his own words and found credible or not. Everything Nawrocki said about Newton's personality could be true, and Newton could still be the top pick and an outstanding NFL player. Nothing says that someone must be a good person to be a good player (example: Moon, Warren).
It is ok to say everything he said. Personality traits and character are on every players evaluation and there is nothing wrong with that.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He got evaluated just like hundreds of others year after year have before him. His just was more on the negative side because of his actions and his history among other things.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1st let me preface by saying I could care less what happens with Newton in the draft & what people think of him. But C'mon lucky, there is no way you can read what he wrote & not come away (at least initially) thinking "whoa, this dude just went in on him...". Then you find out that he hadn't even personally met the guy & you wonder even more. I mean with statements like "fake smile" & "plays to the camera.." what's that about? Furthermore, name me a player expected to go in the top 1/2 of the 1st round who was not prepped up by his agent & god knows who else that doesn't "know where the cameras are at this stage in the evaluation point." yet for some reason he felt the need to mention it in Cam's "negatives" report. We all know he had plenty of practice at it during the season at Auburn last year.
I don't know, I just don't think that being comfortable in front of camera (more so than most of these kids at this stage) is such a "negative" thing as he lists it...especially for a qb. Hell i remember BJ Raji crashing the set & practically doing stand up with Rich Eisen & company on the NFL Network the year he entered the draft.
My statement about being tired of people bringing up Russell was more towards folks bringing up Nawrocki being right about him as if that wasn't at all obvious to many. In reality, most people with a decent eye weren't buying the hype about him for 1 reason or another despite his last bowl performance & his amazing arm strength. At least bring up someone else that was a little less obvious like a Micheal Huff or a Vernon Gholston.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Being comfortable in front of a camera is one thing. Believing yourself to be an icon before playing down one in the NFL and giving off a real prima donna vibe are another. The latter points to guys who won't take coaching well because they believe they are already great, who may not be hard workers for the same reason, who will potentially lose their teammates, may be huge contract problems and may not deal with adversity well. Cam clearly has talent. The question is if he has any humility.
I get what you're saying and agree with you to an extent.
Newton is this yrs version of VY. He has the ability to be a great QB. However it will come down to work ethic. Just like it did with VY.
This is why I believe it is proper to question Newtons character. If the past is any indication I wouldn't touch Newton with a 10 ft pole.
Warren would consider me to be a racist for that statemnet. But Warren only views things thru race. NFL owners view things thru $$$$. That is why although Newton should not be the #1 pick in the draft he probably will be.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
He's not VY at all. VY had a lot more success in college than Cam did. VY left by his Junior season having the best two Rose Bowl performances of all time back to back and never had any character issues in college. As far as his character went in college Vince was everything you'd look for in a QB as far as leadership goes. It wasn't until he had his spats with Fisher and Norm Chow where VY's immaturity started to show where he went off the deep end at times. Vince could have played another season at Texas if he wanted to though and would have probably won another NC.
Their skills sets are very similar though and I'll give you that, but as far as their personalities go comparing Cam to how VY was in college their not alike at all. VY's personality in the pros is another story.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f2bb8e/article/newton-receives-grudens-endorsement-after-personal-workout?module=HP_headlines
Newton receives Gruden's endorsement after personal workout
NFL.com Published: April 9, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. Updated: April 9, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.
Count Jon Gruden among those who believe in Cam Newton.
Gruden, a former NFL coach and current ESPN analyst, put the Auburn quarterback through passing drills Friday and came away impressed, telling The Tampa Tribune "I think Cam Newton's the best player in the country."
"I agree with the Heisman Trophy people that gave him the award," said Gruden, the famously quarterback-minded ex-coach of the Oakland Raiders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. "He's got everything I'm looking for."But do the Carolina Panthers, who own the No. 1 overall pick, agree with Gruden? Panthers coach Ron Rivera said Friday that the team is beginning to narrow its candidates for the top selection in the April 28-30 draft.
Newton has met with the Panthers and hopes he makes the cut.
"To some degree, I'd like to go No. 1," Newton said after the 20-minute workout at the University of South Florida. "The most important thing is to come out each day and get better. That's what I can control. ... I can't control where I get picked."
Gruden's praise of Newton came just days after coach Marvin Lewis, whose Cincinnati Bengals own the No. 4 pick, backed the quarterback's credentials. Lewis said Newton is "a real fine NFL prospect" who has "kind of had that 'it,' been that kind of guy for awhile."
Newton receives Gruden's endorsement after personal workout
NFL.com Published: April 9, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. Updated: April 9, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.
Count Jon Gruden among those who believe in Cam Newton.
Gruden, a former NFL coach and current ESPN analyst, put the Auburn quarterback through passing drills Friday and came away impressed, telling The Tampa Tribune "I think Cam Newton's the best player in the country."
"I agree with the Heisman Trophy people that gave him the award," said Gruden, the famously quarterback-minded ex-coach of the Oakland Raiders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. "He's got everything I'm looking for."But do the Carolina Panthers, who own the No. 1 overall pick, agree with Gruden? Panthers coach Ron Rivera said Friday that the team is beginning to narrow its candidates for the top selection in the April 28-30 draft.
Newton has met with the Panthers and hopes he makes the cut.
"To some degree, I'd like to go No. 1," Newton said after the 20-minute workout at the University of South Florida. "The most important thing is to come out each day and get better. That's what I can control. ... I can't control where I get picked."
Gruden's praise of Newton came just days after coach Marvin Lewis, whose Cincinnati Bengals own the No. 4 pick, backed the quarterback's credentials. Lewis said Newton is "a real fine NFL prospect" who has "kind of had that 'it,' been that kind of guy for awhile."
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Using the argument that he "Has talent" is stupid. Every player in the NFL "has talent". Even Jamarcus Russell "has talent". The fact is that Young is such an epic headcase that he is almost certain to never be able to utilize that "talent".
The fact is those Titans teams had enough talent outside of the QB position that they could get by with shoddy play from there. For all the **** he gets for being terrible, Mark Sanchez is doing a much better job at being a mediocre QB surrounded by an excellent defensive unit and loads of talent on the O-line.
On with Newton:
76Texan, QB's who don't take snaps under center at college don't bother me nearly as much as they used to. My problem with Newton is that he's never really had to make more than 1 progression before tucking and running becomes the better option to move the ball forward. It's much harder to get a guage on his decision making ability because that offense at Auburn wasn't exactly complicated, and even if he did make bad decisions the defense was usually good enough to bail him out and make them easily forgotten.
My second problem with him is that from when his last bowl game ended up until this point he seems to be more concerned with his image and endorsements. Sure, it's nitpicky, and could lead to absolutely nothing in the NFL. But that would be a huge concern for me taking him #1 Overall.
I think Newton going to a system that he can grow into and has solid talent already in it (Think mid to late) might be a great draft pick. #1 overall though seems like a really really bad idea with guys like Peterson, Green, and Dareus, along with like 2 or 3 other QB's who you can say are similarly talented. I think the Panthers could easily be looking at a situation in 2012 where they spent a 2nd on Clausen in 2010, a #1 on Newton and could possibly draft Jake Locker in 2012. Then what do you do? Again, I'm not saying that Newton doesn't look like a solid overall talent that could develop into a Steve Young type QB who can be a great scrambler and passer. Going #1 overall though, into that Panthers system, where they may lose Williams and Stewart hasn't held up for a full 16 yet? And they've got Steve Smith and who receiving the ball? Really?
Yikes.
Once again, I do not endorse anybody as a number one draft pick 'cause I don't have all the resources to learn enough about the players.
But these points, I want to make:
1. Newton made a lot more multi-read decisions than Gabbert. This I can guarantee because I did pay attention to each of their passes in at least 8 games that I watched from them. I saw Newton made 3-reads often, gabbert, rarely. I have not seen Gabbert made 4 or 5 reads, something that Newton did at least a half dozen times.
2. The Panthers have some good looking young receivers:
Gettys from Baylor is 6'3 with 4.43 speed
Brandon lafell (LSU) doesn't have the speed, but I saw him being very solid and steady in college. Armanti Edwards , once he gets used to the new position can be a dangerous threat .
Mike Goodson has excellent speed out of the backfield.
I don't know much about their TE; but with that solid core of young receivers (in addition to Steve Smith), the Panthers can be very productive with a good QB in tow.
But these points, I want to make:
1. Newton made a lot more multi-read decisions than Gabbert. This I can guarantee because I did pay attention to each of their passes in at least 8 games that I watched from them. I saw Newton made 3-reads often, gabbert, rarely. I have not seen Gabbert made 4 or 5 reads, something that Newton did at least a half dozen times.
2. The Panthers have some good looking young receivers:
Gettys from Baylor is 6'3 with 4.43 speed
Brandon lafell (LSU) doesn't have the speed, but I saw him being very solid and steady in college. Armanti Edwards , once he gets used to the new position can be a dangerous threat .
Mike Goodson has excellent speed out of the backfield.
I don't know much about their TE; but with that solid core of young receivers (in addition to Steve Smith), the Panthers can be very productive with a good QB in tow.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I don't think Blaine Gabbert would be a good pick #1 overall either. But that doesn't really change my opinion about how ready I think Cameron Newton is for the NFL. Every year just about we see a QB who is a great scrambler, has a questionable throwing game, and is over-hyped beyond belief because his whole team around him was also fairly talented.
Nothing on the Panthers looked anything close to good last year. Armanti Edwards was a joke of a pick that cost them their 2nd this year, and Lafell has yet to do anything either. That team is going to get beat up on by the Bucs, Falcons, and Saints for probably a few years if not more. There is no way in the world if I were the panthers that I would not take Patrick Peterson (Or Marcel Dareus) over Cameron Newton and just hope that I get close enough to trade up for Luck next year. If they have to have a QB, I think they'll probably end up with similar results no matter who they take be it Newton, Gabbert, or random QB #3 (Mallett, Locker, Ponder, Kapaernick).
I have read an article out of the Charlotte Observer talking about trading with Washington so that the 'Skins can draft Newton. That, I think, would be the best case scenario for the Panthers and I have no idea how that would end up for Newton but the first word that pops into my mind is "bad".
Nothing on the Panthers looked anything close to good last year. Armanti Edwards was a joke of a pick that cost them their 2nd this year, and Lafell has yet to do anything either. That team is going to get beat up on by the Bucs, Falcons, and Saints for probably a few years if not more. There is no way in the world if I were the panthers that I would not take Patrick Peterson (Or Marcel Dareus) over Cameron Newton and just hope that I get close enough to trade up for Luck next year. If they have to have a QB, I think they'll probably end up with similar results no matter who they take be it Newton, Gabbert, or random QB #3 (Mallett, Locker, Ponder, Kapaernick).
I have read an article out of the Charlotte Observer talking about trading with Washington so that the 'Skins can draft Newton. That, I think, would be the best case scenario for the Panthers and I have no idea how that would end up for Newton but the first word that pops into my mind is "bad".
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
What happened!? Gabbert is apparently making some front offices drool with his mind... he might be a Jedi. NFL places a premium on a QBs ability to remember plays and Gabbert has been impressing teams with his memory of Mizzou plays as well as pro-style plays teams are testing him with.
This draft is so interesting. Will Newton or will Gabbert go #1 overall!!??
bah007
Hall of Fame
Gruden gave Newton an example of a NFL play, with 10 words or so. He asked Newton what kind of terminology they used at Auburn and Cam was speechless.
Eventually he said they didn't call plays. They just looked to the sideline because they would hold up signs with numbers on them. The numbers are the play calls. If a sign says 36, that's the name of the play.
Then Gruden asks, "Do you think they do that in the NFL?"
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
That part was sort of funny actually. Yeah, Newton seemed way out of his element when he was asked that.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I thought it was funny. And it's a perfect example of why I think Cam will be a bust in the NFL. He has the ability, nobody doubts that. But imo, he does not have the head to be a NFL QB.
Jon Gruden conducted a series for ESPN where he interviews each QB in this draft and puts them through a workout (separately).
It's an interesting series; I learned a lot from it.
Gruden had done his homework beforehand and he always tries to put the QBs in a spot at some point in the interview. The guy is really tricky, I'll tell ya'.
Remember that Gruden called Newton the best player in the country after this interview/workout.
I think people put too much into this, as usual.
Here's part of the interview:
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/cam-newton-jon-gruden-video/
And here are some interesting reads concerning play callings, methods, and signals:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_293445.html
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-Auburn-s-Malzahn-at-the-gates-a?urn=ncaaf-193416
http://www.thestate.com/2011/03/31/1757985/coaches-simplifying-play-calling.html
It's an interesting series; I learned a lot from it.
Gruden had done his homework beforehand and he always tries to put the QBs in a spot at some point in the interview. The guy is really tricky, I'll tell ya'.
Remember that Gruden called Newton the best player in the country after this interview/workout.
I think people put too much into this, as usual.
Here's part of the interview:
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/cam-newton-jon-gruden-video/
And here are some interesting reads concerning play callings, methods, and signals:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_293445.html
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-Auburn-s-Malzahn-at-the-gates-a?urn=ncaaf-193416
http://www.thestate.com/2011/03/31/1757985/coaches-simplifying-play-calling.html
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I found it most disturbing how he froze up -- cognitive/decision-making problems?
Secondly, think about it: You're a first round QB prospect who is about to sit across the table from Chuckie(!) on national television -- you know it'll be a chalkboard session -- and you show up apparently unprepared?
May be nit-picky, but ... MLB pitchers can recount games pitch-by-pitch; PGA Tour pros recount rounds shot-distance-result; NBA players can bore you with play-by-play recollections -- and I'm talking about years old games, tournaments. (Ask Nicklaus about 1986 Masters and he'll give you every single shot.)
For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause.
Secondly, think about it: You're a first round QB prospect who is about to sit across the table from Chuckie(!) on national television -- you know it'll be a chalkboard session -- and you show up apparently unprepared?
May be nit-picky, but ... MLB pitchers can recount games pitch-by-pitch; PGA Tour pros recount rounds shot-distance-result; NBA players can bore you with play-by-play recollections -- and I'm talking about years old games, tournaments. (Ask Nicklaus about 1986 Masters and he'll give you every single shot.)
For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I love those bits with Chuckie.
He is great on TV. I really don't want him to get a coaching gig because I like him on TV too much.
He is great on TV. I really don't want him to get a coaching gig because I like him on TV too much.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't think he has the ability either. He has the athleticism to be a running QB, but not a great passer.
Let's compare two QBs a little bit here:I found it most disturbing how he froze up -- cognitive/decision-making problems?
Secondly, think about it: You're a first round QB prospect who is about to sit across the table from Chuckie(!) on national television -- you know it'll be a chalkboard session -- and you show up apparently unprepared?
May be nit-picky, but ... MLB pitchers can recount games pitch-by-pitch; PGA Tour pros recount rounds shot-distance-result; NBA players can bore you with play-by-play recollections -- and I'm talking about years old games, tournaments. (Ask Nicklaus about 1986 Masters and he'll give you every single shot.)
For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause.
On the one hand, you have Gabbert who ran a pure spread offense at Mizzou.
He either was in one back shotgun set or no back spread.
He had no TE. The guy who was listed as TE only had the title; he lined up as a receiver.
He doesn't know what kind of routes a TE in the NFL run.
He doesn't know how to utilize a FB or an H-back in the passing game because he never played with one.
With 4 or 5 receivers, there are only so many formations you can line up in and only so many plays you can run.
On the other hand, you have Newton who saw action under Center about 3.5 times a game (remember you have to practice). He's seen the play action fake, the roll out off the two-back set.
Even when he's in the shotgun, he played with 2 backs or 3 backs in the backfield; something you don't even see in the NFL.
Imagine how many different formations he had to get comfortable with.
Out of each formation, they can run a bunch of plays, with variations and options.
His playbook can be at least 2 times as thick as Gabbert's and thicker than quite a few NFL QBs, probably thicker than most (if not all).
A guy has to have football intelligence to be able to digest such a system.
On top of that, the Tigers ran a lot of up-tempo or no huddle.
The QB has to be smart to be able to run a series of play with very little communication from the side line.
It is totally illogical to think that he doesn't have a brain between his ears when he was able to perform all those tasks at a very high level.
This is a guy who can make all the throws (to RB, FB, H-back, TE, WR) in game situation. It takes more than a good passer to do that.
His brain has got to function at a high level to shift gears between so many different personnel groupings/formations like that.
To think otherwise is totally illogical.
Tennessee coach Lane Kiffin quoted his colorful dad/defensive coordinator, Monte, that defending Malzahn's offense was "like trying to read a book with someone waving their hand in front of the book -- trying to look at it, what's going on, but you can't really see it.
......
Now, does that sound like an offense that a QB with no brain can run?
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Now, does that sound like an offense that a QB with no brain can run?
It sounds like a gimmick offense that doesn't translate to the NFL. Not that Newton is alone in that regard. Most of the college QBs coming into the league have to make the adjustments to NFL style offenses. It's a process, and has as more to do with the coaching the young QB will receive in the NFL than anything.
Newton needs a good QB coach on whatever team he lands with. The Panthers QB coach, Mike Shula, transitioned David Garrard from a running QB to a drop back passer. The Bills hired an ex-CFL coach, George Cortez, as their QB coach. That tells me that the Bills will be more gimmicky than last year, and either Newton or Gabbert (or Kaepernick in round 2) would be good fits.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
To me it looks and sounds like an offense that you can run by flying by the seat of your pants, and while you can't say for sure that this will cause him to bustola in the NFL it's obviously one of those "red flags" that you go and research later on to see whether it's malarky or if you might have a serious issue on your hands when he gets to training camp.
To be fair, I don't really like any of the guys in this QB class it's not really just Newton. There is no "guy" or "guys". You don't have a couple of players head and shoulders above the rest of the class. While Newton and Gabbert are both considered to be the best of the bunch I don't think either one of those guys are far enough ahead of Mallet/Locker/Ponder to think that they are just going to be great right out of the box. It kind of reminds me of the '07 draft where you had 2 guys with obvious flaws but some decent talent followed by a bunch of ho-hum prospects (of which Kevin Kolb seems to be doing the best). If I were a team that was badly in need of a QB I would try to pick up one of those guys in the 2nd and hope that I could land a VY in free agency if I needed somebody who could start immediately. In no way would I not have serious reservations about making any of these guys a top 5 or top 10 pick, I would almost rather win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes and have a whole offseason to work with my new toy.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
b0ng;1683731To be fair said:
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I honestly believe that if you were looking for a QB that could start in 1 or 2 years Dalton, CK, Ponder and probably Locker all make for decent round 2-3 guys and would probably be OK if they got decent coaching and time to learn. 6 of these guys actually going in the first round would make me think that GM's are operating under the presumption that rookie wages are going to be a fraction of what they have been in the previous years and it won't cost as much to grab a guy in the first and let him sit for a few years before seeing him take over at the position. I mean even in what was considered a QB rich draft like 2004 only 4 went in the first round which makes 6 going in the first year seem ridiculous.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
I believe the theory is that with no FA and trades, GMs can't assume they can get Kolb or McNabb or Palmer and will reach to get a warm body at QB.
Blake
MMQB
Ive had the same thoughts for awhile. The spot with Gruden just enforces it. Cam got by on his athleticism. He doesn't even know play terminology. 36 is a play? Give me a break. Cam doesn't have the capacity to learn what every player is doing on every play and Gus Malzahn is forced to dumb it down.
I think Gabbert and Mallet did a great job. I feel like the Fins will draft him. Gabbert should go top 5 and someone will reach for Cam top 5.
But hey, at least Cam was the best dressed. On Dez Bryantesqe pre-draft credit I am sure.