Bush vs. Oline in the draft...

[David's Busted Carr]

I ran across this info. and found it VERY interesting. The Indy Colts have arguable the BEST OL in the NFL. Look at where their lineman were drafted vs. their skill players...

Manning - 1st rd
Edge-1st rd
Wayne-1st rd
Marvin Harrison -1st rd
Dallas Clark-1st rd


And now thier O line

Jake Scott-4th rd
Jeff Saturday-Undrafted FA
Ryan Ilja -waivers KC Chiefs
Tarik Glenn-1st rd
Ryan Deim 4th rd

The only 1st rounder was their LT Glenn b/c LT is obviously the most difficult position. I personally think Chester Pitts is capable of being a solid LT.

Bottom line. You can teach technique and improve by cohesiveness on for the Oline. You can also improve via free agency.

You cannot teach the skills of a player like Reggie Bush!!! And good luck finding a Reggie Bush type talent in the free agent pool. LOL

 

[eriadoc]

I'll post here the same thing I posted there. You take a stud left tackle and build around that. The trickle-down effect of a left tackle allows us to move Pitts to RT, Wiegert back to RG, and McKinney to LG. Draft a center in the middle rounds to compete with Hodgdon and our draft status would be comparable to the Colts. As it is now, we have not drafted a tackle higher than the 3rd round, and Pitts was drafted as a guard. If Pitts can play tackle, then it's a bonus - not something that's obvious at this point, or should even be planned upon.

 

[MorKnolle]

I'll post here the same thing I posted there. You take a stud left tackle and build around that. The trickle-down effect of a left tackle allows us to move Pitts to RT, Wiegert back to RG, and McKinney to LG. Draft a center in the middle rounds to compete with Hodgdon and our draft status would be comparable to the Colts. As it is now, we have not drafted a tackle higher than the 3rd round, and Pitts was drafted as a guard. If Pitts can play tackle, then it's a bonus - not something that's obvious at this point, or should even be planned upon.

I agree. Draft whoever is deemed to be the best OT at draft time (at the moment I'd say Eric Winston), then look to draft an OG in there to replace Wiegert in a year since he's starting to get old and maybe draft a center to compete with Hodgdon. I would cut McKinney since he hasn't been real good and will cost like $4.6 million to keep around but won't cost much to get rid of, and unfortunately Wade is costing a lot and will be here for a year or two, so we can move him inside to OG to compete/rotate with Wiegert and a rookie, then let Wiegert go after next year when his contract is done and our rookie should be ready to shine by then.

 

[Bullpen Drew]

The way Bush runs, he may not need an O line!

 

[TDforTatum26]

I think you guys will take D'Brickishaw Ferguson....maybe trade down a couple spots,get more draft picks,so you don't have to pay him #1 money....

Reggie Bush or not.

 

[royce1054]

Bush does NEED an O-line thats the worse comment i have ever heard. He needs 1 more than DD does. Hes not big enough of a back not to have 1.

I think if we improve the O-line then Carr will have more time to throw and Davis will have more lanes. Only 4 RB's have ever rushed for 1000 yards in past 4 years and we have 1 with a bad line. The guy is doing a great job considering his situation. He was rewarded with a 5 yr deal. He is here to stay GET OVER IT!!!!!! If we do draft Bush he will traded to highest Bidder if thats what you are talking about by lets draft bush then all means do it. Sry i needed to vent some of the stuff that is said just makes no sense.

 

[royce1054]

I think you guys will take D'Brickishaw Ferguson....maybe trade down a couple spots,get more draft picks,so you don't have to pay him #1 money....

Reggie Bush or not.

I agree with your paragraph Ferguson or trade down, or even draft Bush and trade down i dont see any other possible scenario

 

[tulexan]

I think more than 4 backs have rushed for 1000 yards in each of the last 4 years.

 

[TDforTatum26]

I agree with your paragraph Ferguson or trade down, or even draft Bush and trade down i dont see any other possible scenario

well what I meant is trade down maybe 2 or 3,4 spots at the most to draft Ferguson....then you get him for less money AND get more draft picks. but thats if the Texans will know for sure that no one will take him.

if other teams are interested in him....I think they will just draft him #1.

Sure Reggie Bush is good....but I think the thing that is killing you guys this season is your O'line:

Carr isn't a bad QB...he was getting better and better until he just gets sack every other play

you have one of the best young WR's in the NFL...Andre Johnson. who doesn't have great numbers because Carr doesnt have time to throw

DD has run for 1,000 yards the last 2 seasons and would have better stats if the O'line made some holes for him.

I don't think you guys have a choice....you gotta go O'line.

maybe get Lewis or Pope (TE) in the 2nd if there isn't any good OL....

 

[royce1054]

each of the past 4 seasons i believe

Alexander, Curtis, DD, and 1 other i can remember his name off the top of my head.

 

[royce1054]

well what I meant is trade down maybe 2 or 3,4 spots at the most to draft Ferguson....then you get him for less money AND get more draft picks. but thats if the Texans will know for sure that no one will take him.

if other teamns are interested in him....I think they will just draft him #1.

Sure Reggie Bush is good....but I think the thing that is killing you guys this season is your O'line:

Carr isn't a bad QB...he was getting better and better until he just gets sack every other play

you have one of the best young WR's in the NFL...Andre Johnson. who doesn't have great numbers because Carr doesnt have time to throw

DD has run for 1,000 yards the last 2 seasons and would have better stats if the O'line made some holes for him.

I don't think you guys have a choice....you gotta go O'line.

maybe get Lewis or Pope (TE) in the 2nd if there isn't any good OL....

Hey i agree with you. Although Lewis will be a top 25 pick. So if we do trade down and get 2 1st rounders we can get an OL and then get Lewis

 

[tulexan]

Our run blocking is fine. I don't agree with the fact that all of the sudden Davis will go from a 1000-1200 yard back to a 1800 yard back with better linemen. They can block for about 2 or 3 seconds and then they suck. That is why we can do 3 step drops, but not 5 or 7 step drops. You don't need more than 2 or 3 seconds to run the ball through the hole. And I'm also curious as to why everyone thinks that we get no holes. If you get no holes you can't run. He isn't jumping over linemen and running past them. Dominack has been getting plenty of holes and that is why he has been breaking some long runs. His problem is that he can't finish the run.

 

[tulexan]

each of the past 4 seasons i believe

Alexander, Curtis, DD, and 1 other i can remember his name off the top of my head.

Alexander, Curtis, Portis, Barber, Tomlinson, Ahman Green. Deuce was on pace too but got hurt this year and Edgerrin James was 11 yards short 3 years ago and didn't play in 2 games.

That is kind of a misleading statistic because there are a lot of good running backs who are in the twilight of their career and a lot of young running backs who will have those statistics, just haven't been in the league long enough

 

[royce1054]

what i meant to say was out of the top 30 Running Backs in the NFL right now, only 4 have rushed for 1,000 yards their first 3 seasons: LaDainian Tomlinson, Clinton Portis, Curtis Martin, and DOMANICK DAVIS.

sry for misleading i was typing off top of my head

 

[tulexan]

Yeah and Edgerrin James would have if he didn't blow out his knee and Shaun Alexander would have if he was the starter his rookie year.

Davis is a solid back, but he is not spectacular. He will give you around 1200 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving. Reggie Bush can give you 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving or 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving.

Do you want a solid player or a gamebreaker?

I want a gamebreaker.

 

[real]

Yeah and Edgerrin James would have if he didn't blow out his knee and Shaun Alexander would have if he was the starter his rookie year.

Davis is a solid back, but he is not spectacular. He will give you around 1200 yards rushing and 400 yards receiving. Reggie Bush can give you 1500 yards rushing and 700 yards receiving or 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving.

Do you want a solid player or a gamebreaker?

I want a gamebreaker.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Reggie is a great player, and this game might have sealed up a heisman for him, but he still does not run in between the tackles and when he does, he dances around well before hitting the hole. He may be a good player in the NFL, a Warrick Dunn type, but until he is able to run between the tackles and not just an outside runner, he will not be a very successful running back. He might have highlight runs every once in a while on Sportscenter, but he won't be leading the league in anything.

Tulexan....member that...seems like youve changed your tune....

 

[royce1054]

I want a hard nose player who will run it and not be affraid to hit someone or run to daylight. Davis has that and has been doing good with a horrible O-line. Bush might be better but his durability is in question here. I dont remember him taking any beatings like he would here in Houston. He wont do much more than DD is and thats reality. If DD had an O-line we wouldnt be having this conversation because we would be 8-8 or 9-7 in playoff contention. Carr wouldnt of been sacked 1 million times. DD or the RB position or even Carr or QB position is not the problem. Its in the OL, and O-Coordinator. Thats it. Maybe a TE would help.. I am not even saying draft O-line with the first pick i am saying trade down get some extra picks. Get rid of Babin, Buchannon, Coleman, Bradford, and i cant remember the O-linemans name that his contract is up. Insert Orr in Babins place. Insert Mathis in the WR slot. THen all we have to do is replace the OL, TE, FS, and CB positions. We trade down out of the #1 slot we are gonna get atleast 2 1st rounders and possibly a 3rd. Then we have top pick in 2nd round. So to me that says we have 2 1st, 1 2nd and 3 3rds. We could package those 2 of the 3 3rds and move into the 2nd round. Then we can go O-line with the highest pick. TE with the 2nd 1st round pick. FS and CB with the 2 2nds and the 3rd either DL or OL which ever our coach feels is the best.

 

[real]

ok hold up...pause it... Do you guys actually watch the o-line or do you just listen to announcers and radio shows...Our line has had problems PASS BLOCKING...Domanick Davis has done pretty well, and he is a very good Running back to fill the position until we have the chance to get someone better...and darn it on draft day we may have the opprotunity...You guys are making DD sound like he's a beast...he's not... he's adequate...IMO..YOU CANT RUN IF YOUR LINE DOESN'T RUN BLOCK..DD isn't splitting guys, jumping over tacklers, giving forceful stiff arms, he is running through open holes and making decent yardage after contact...our team isn't one year away from greatness...We have a lack of talent..period...we need more playmakers, and if the texans have a chance to snag one who is supposed to be one of the greatest in the past 20 years, Why shouldn't they take him? he would automatically become the second best player on our offense and maybe the number one big play guy...

 

[jacquescas]

You can still get a decent O lineman at the top of the second round.

 

[tulexan]

Listen, I'll be the first to admit that I was wrong about Reggie. I hadn't seen him play too much and made assumptions that were completely incorrect about him. When I actually watched him play I was shocked that everything that I have said negatively about him was wrong. The guy is an absolute gamer who knows how to do one thing, and that is win football games. He puts the team on his back and carries them to victories the very same way that Tracy McGrady does in basketball.

Just like a lot of the anti-Bush people here can't see why the pro-Bush people want him, I can say the same thing. I understand that you don't want to get rid of Dominack Davis. So why do we have to? I understand that the offensive line needs a lot of work. So why don't we spend the remaining or the majority of the remaining first day picks on OL. Pitts has done a pretty good job against some of the better DE's in the league. We can add a RT in the second round and have pretty good bookends for the line. We could probably add a good TE in the third round too. Byrd from USC or the TE from Colorado will probably be available with our 2nd 3rd round pick. Or we could trade both of our 3rd's and get another second.

My draft would be as follows:
1. Bush
2. Best available OT or OG (Scott, Justice, McNeil, Jean Gilles, Thomas)
3. Best available TE (Byrd, Klop)
3. Threat or Slay

Look what you have accomplished with this draft just in the first day

Get a playmaker
Get some help on the line
Get a versatile TE
Get a Safety

That takes care of 3 of our 4 needs (pass rush help is #4) and we get the best player in the draft.

 

[real]

kudos to you tulexan...everyone needs to be able to admit when they think they are wrong...even though you may have been right at first, but we'll see...

 

[YoungTexanFan]

I ran across this info. and found it VERY interesting. The Indy Colts have arguable the BEST OL in the NFL. Look at where their lineman were drafted vs. their skill players...

Manning - 1st rd
Edge-1st rd
Wayne-1st rd
Marvin Harrison -1st rd
Dallas Clark-1st rd


And now thier O line

Jake Scott-4th rd
Jeff Saturday-Undrafted FA
Ryan Ilja -waivers KC Chiefs
Tarik Glenn-1st rd
Ryan Deim 4th rd

The only 1st rounder was their LT Glenn b/c LT is obviously the most difficult position. I personally think Chester Pitts is capable of being a solid LT.

Bottom line. You can teach technique and improve by cohesiveness on for the Oline. You can also improve via free agency.

You cannot teach the skills of a player like Reggie Bush!!! And good luck finding a Reggie Bush type talent in the free agent pool. LOL

This information is quite misleading to our MB i guess.

They have 5 first round offensive weapons and a first round LT
We have 2 first round weapons and a 3rd round LT who is adequate at best.

You are making the same argument for pitts that you are making against davis. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

The colts never became an elite team before their defense stepped up. Our defense has fallen off considerably this year.
The difference in first round talent is undeniable, and they have a consumption of it, we do not.

I'll assume for your arguements sake that we take bush and get adequate O-line later. So that puts us at 3 first round offensive weapons, 0 first round o-line.

In order to compete as the colts do, we need another 3-4 offensive weapons and a first round o-linemen, if we were to go by their standards, which is part of your argument.

We can also go ahead and throw in a first round DE, and a stud LB or two. A young, hard hitting safty.

Then with our savior, reggie bush, we will be the SB champs right?

All we need is, assuming we take bush #1 overall, is 2 more first round WR, a first round TE, a first round LT, a top tier DE.


We are ALMOST there and im pretty sure i saw reggie bush lined up as a TE also! what a bonus

 

[MorKnolle]

I ran across this info. and found it VERY interesting. The Indy Colts have arguable the BEST OL in the NFL. Look at where their lineman were drafted vs. their skill players...



The only 1st rounder was their LT Glenn b/c LT is obviously the most difficult position. I personally think Chester Pitts is capable of being a solid LT.

Bottom line. You can teach technique and improve by cohesiveness on for the Oline. You can also improve via free agency.

You cannot teach the skills of a player like Reggie Bush!!! And good luck finding a Reggie Bush type talent in the free agent pool. LOL

Marvin Harrison -1st rd 1996
Tarik Glenn-1st rd 1997
Peyton Manning - 1st rd 1998
Edgerrin James-1st rd 1999
Rob Morris-1st rd 2000
Reggie Wayne-1st rd 2001
Dwight Freeney-1st rd 2002
Dallas Clark-1st rd 2003


The Colts had the luxury of collecting these first rounders over a 8 year period in the draft while building other positions through the draft and free agency. They got their stout LT before they started building the rest of the team and their OL was solidified when the other pieces arrived. They have had a great offense for a while but a lousy defense so they started building their defense up in the first round to fill that need. They have been good for the last several years and have had the luxury of only having to fill a few holes on their team so to complete it and get to where they are today, so they can use their first or second round picks on getting the best players available at those needed positions. We have many holes to fill on our team and if we want to be good in the next four years we need to start filling them with quality draft picks, not spending the first pick and a whole lot of money on a RB that is an exceptional athlete and unproven beyond that. If we are given the opportunity to trade one pick away and acquire two extra high 2nd round picks, two extra high 3rd round picks, and another 1st rounder next year or two 2nd rounders next year to start building this team with some quality rookies so in 2-3 years we can be a good playoff team, then I am all for that.

 

[eriadoc]

Actually, Tulexan, I think you were right about Bush before. He still hasn't proven that he can do the tough running between the tackles - that work is reserved for LenDale White. And yeah, he has the speed to turn one of those DD 40-yarders into a 60-yard TD, but he doesn't have the power to break tackles to put himself in a position to break a 40-yarder in the first place, as DD does. Running to the outside in the NFL is pretty non-existent unless you just have a stud line. Also, everyone likes to talk about how explosive Bush is in the open field, or running in space. That open field and open space doesn't happen in the NFL without breaking some tackles forst, and even then with a great deal less frequency than it does in the NFL. There are plenty of speed backs in the NFL that haven't been successful because of this. Running backs like Laurence Moroney have skills that typically translate better to the NFL. Even LenDale White will probably have a very successful NFL career, barring injury.

 

[tulexan]

He looks pretty muscular to me. He can bench over 400 lbs. He isn't a weak guy.

 

[YoungTexanFan]

He looks pretty muscular to me. He can bench over 400 lbs. He isn't a weak guy.

It means nothing if he could bench a mazda, he still refuses to run through traffic. Its not his ability that is being questioned, because that is blatently obvious in the extent he uses it, but rather his willingness to accept the duties of a NFL back.

 

[tulexan]

Since when has he announced that he refuses to run through traffic? I have seen games where he has run through traffic. The only reason why it seems like he doesn't do it more often because is is the master at the cut back. He can pull the defenders one way and then cut back and be at full speed the other way instantly.

 

[texplayer2]

Actually, Tulexan, I think you were right about Bush before. He still hasn't proven that he can do the tough running between the tackles - that work is reserved for LenDale White. And yeah, he has the speed to turn one of those DD 40-yarders into a 60-yard TD, but he doesn't have the power to break tackles to put himself in a position to break a 40-yarder in the first place, as DD does. . Also, everyone likes to talk about how explosive Bush is in the open field, or running in space. That open field and open space doesn't happen in the NFL without breaking some tackles forst, and even then with a great deal less frequency than it does in the NFL. There are plenty of speed backs in the NFL that haven't been successful because of this. Running backs like Laurence Moroney have skills that typically translate better to the NFL. Even LenDale White will probably have a very successful NFL career, barring injury.

Good thing the Rose Bowl will be televised here in Texas. We will all get a good look at the players on the two best teams in college football this year and I am sure Bush will show some up the middle stuff you can judge him on. I don't think a lot of people have watched Bush in any games, sounds like most people here have just seen the highlights on ESPN. That is the spectacular stuff, the guy does play on a TEAM of future NFL players on offense, he doesn't make every play, but he is very consistent. And alot of Bush's and Lendale's carries get a few extra yards with people hanging on them dragging them for first downs.

 

[stevo3883]

it sucks we only get 1 pick in this years draft, or else we could draft Bush AND a tackle.

oh well.

 

[tulexan]

I could have sworn that there are seven rounds in the draft.

But I must be mistaken. There is obviously only one round.

 

[stevo3883]

I could have sworn that there are seven rounds in the draft.

But I must be mistaken. There is obviously only one round.

what were you thinking??

you're so STUPID!!!

the ONLY way we will EVER be good is to draft a tackle WITH OUR PICK!!!

Can you say SUPER BOWL 07??

 

[tulexan]

I was thinking about baseball. Now I remember, we get one pick and one pick only. I also remember reading that free agency has been cancelled this year

 

[stevo3883]

I was thinking about baseball. Now I remember, we get one pick and one pick only. I also remember reading that free agency has been cancelled this year

everyone knows that free agency consists of

A- players we deem not good enough for our team

B- Guys that wouldn't fit our "system"

C- too expensive
or
D- we just don't like them


unless of course they are faster and younger than the people we have now, then they can expect their check for $30million in the mail any day now.

 

[thague]

I ran across this info. and found it VERY interesting. The Indy Colts have arguable the BEST OL in the NFL. Look at where their lineman were drafted vs. their skill players...

Manning - 1st rd
Edge-1st rd
Wayne-1st rd
Marvin Harrison -1st rd
Dallas Clark-1st rd


And now thier O line

Jake Scott-4th rd
Jeff Saturday-Undrafted FA
Ryan Ilja -waivers KC Chiefs
Tarik Glenn-1st rd
Ryan Deim 4th rd

The only 1st rounder was their LT Glenn b/c LT is obviously the most difficult position. I personally think Chester Pitts is capable of being a solid LT.

Bottom line. You can teach technique and improve by cohesiveness on for the Oline. You can also improve via free agency.

You cannot teach the skills of a player like Reggie Bush!!! And good luck finding a Reggie Bush type talent in the free agent pool. LOL

I personally LOVE Domanick Davis. I think he is a very solid running back, he ranks 12th in the league in rushing yards behind an awful offensive line, and 8 men consistently in the box because of the lack of a deep passing game. However, when you have the ability to get a player with unprecedented upside like a Reggie Bush, you must take that. When you have as many weak spots as the Texans have, you have to take the best available player with the number one pick. Draft Bush, let him become a Pro-Bowl player. He can obviously play running back (8.9 yards per carry). He can catch the ball out fo the backfield (He would be very comparable to an LT or a Westbrook in this regard). He can line up at reciever, because he has amazing hands, and would give us a threat opposite AJ in the recieving corps... he can return punts, which would allow us to get rid of the Buchannon who has been a let-down to say the least...AND he would put huge numbers of people in the seats... Keep Davis he has more rushing yards than Steven Jackson, Carnell Williams, Fred Taylor, Ronnie Brown, Chris Brown, Jamal Lewis, Deshaun Foster, and Curtis Martin... But use Bush as well... This is my push for Reggie Bush as the number one pick... However, we also need a left tackle, obviously although i too believe Pitts can be adequate in that role, but this would allow him to move to his natural guard position... This draft has good tackles, 5 to be exact including D'Brickshaw Ferguson, Eric Winston, Marcus McNeil, Ryan O'Callaghan, and Jonathon Scott... not in that order exactly... Scott or O'Callaghan may make it all the way down the board for the Texans to select with an early second round pick... if this happens we can grab a spectacular playmaker in Bush, while also filling a need at LT

 

[AUSTexan]

Great post.

The main thing I take away from this post is that the Colts had a clear long-term strategy and executed without pause to that.

They were BAD in these years... yet they still had the long-term view to build offensive playmakers through their high draft picks while stabilizing the defense through free agency.

I recently heard several of the guys on ESPN talking about the need for the 49ers to pick a direction (offense -or- defense) and buld that way. This applies to the Texans as well.

With Bush, 2 OL, and another wide receiver in the first 2 rounds of the next two drafts we have the chance to have a spectacular offense in 2-3 more years... Then we can draft our Freeney (easier said than done) and a solid TE with lower first round picks when we start to improve.

This was the Colts' strategy. Just like case studies show in the business world, good teams identify then stick to a long-term strategy.

Then again, I'm in Boston... so I don't have to endure the pain of losing in person in the meantime like so many of you do...

Some good comments on this thread...

Marvin Harrison -1st rd 1996
Tarik Glenn-1st rd 1997
Peyton Manning - 1st rd 1998
Edgerrin James-1st rd 1999
Rob Morris-1st rd 2000
Reggie Wayne-1st rd 2001
Dwight Freeney-1st rd 2002
Dallas Clark-1st rd 2003


The Colts had the luxury of collecting these first rounders over a 8 year period in the draft while building other positions through the draft and free agency. They got their stout LT before they started building the rest of the team and their OL was solidified when the other pieces arrived. They have had a great offense for a while but a lousy defense so they started building their defense up in the first round to fill that need. They have been good for the last several years and have had the luxury of only having to fill a few holes on their team so to complete it and get to where they are today, so they can use their first or second round picks on getting the best players available at those needed positions. We have many holes to fill on our team and if we want to be good in the next four years we need to start filling them with quality draft picks, not spending the first pick and a whole lot of money on a RB that is an exceptional athlete and unproven beyond that. If we are given the opportunity to trade one pick away and acquire two extra high 2nd round picks, two extra high 3rd round picks, and another 1st rounder next year or two 2nd rounders next year to start building this team with some quality rookies so in 2-3 years we can be a good playoff team, then I am all for that.

 

[David's Busted Carr]

My main point with this post was that talents like Reggie Bush come out of college maybe once every 10 years. With OL you just never know. You could get just as good of a OT in the 3rd round as you can in the 1st. Just look at Robert Gallery who was a "can't miss stud tackle". He has been awful his first 2 years in Oakland. So if you are going to take a chance, who's more worth the risk? Should be a simple answer there.

And I have nothing at all against Domanik Davis. I think he is a solid back who lacks in speed, durability, and pass blocking. But he is NOT a playmaker. He will take what is there, maybe break a tackle or 2 and that's it. Bush SCORES TDS in a variety of ways. We NEED a player like that. A player that a defense FEARS and has to gameplan for. You get Bush with AJ, a REAL TE, and even keep DD and defenses then will have problems defending them all...

 

[infantrycak]

My main point with this post was that talents like Reggie Bush come out of college maybe once every 10 years. With OL you just never know. You could get just as good of a OT in the 3rd round as you can in the 1st. Just look at Robert Gallery who was a "can't miss stud tackle". He has been awful his first 2 years in Oakland. So if you are going to take a chance, who's more worth the risk? Should be a simple answer there.

The answer is a lot more simple when you skew the playing field. Fact is you aren't close to as likely to get a LT outside the 1st. About 2/3rds of LT's are 1st rounders with many being top 20. None of the "top" guys was a non-1st rounder. The same cannot be said of RB's where very good to elite guys come outside of the 1st--Holmes, Stephen Davis, Tiki, Portis, etc. While Gallery has not taken over the LT spot as expected and could therefore be regarded as a dissapointment at #2 overall, he has hardly been awful. He has been a dominate RT (6 sacks total given up in almost 2 years by the way) who still may move to LT at some point.

 

[tiger06]

We shouldn't pass on a playmaker like Bush. We can fill our O-line needs in the mid rounds and/or through free agency.

 

[TDforTatum26]

mayeb you guys can draft Bush....and trade him for more picks. Do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning.

 

[royce1054]

mayeb you guys can draft Bush....and trade him for more picks. Do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning.

This is what i have been saying

 

[MorKnolle]

We shouldn't pass on a playmaker like Bush. We can fill our O-line needs in the mid rounds and/or through free agency.

There are no good free agent OL this year, teams don't let go of good OLinemen. Go check through the free agent list that is posted in the NFL folder. Mid-round picks will not find us a good LT of the future and will not be much of an improvement over our current line. WE NEED TO DRAFT TO FILL OUR NEEDS, NOT SPEND $50+ MILLION ON A SLIGHT UPGRADE AT RB.

mayeb you guys can draft Bush....and trade him for more picks. Do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning.

Trading the pick is better than drafting Bush and then trading him. As was pointed out with the Eli trade, since Philip Rivers was essentially taken with the #1 pick he expected to be paid like the #1 pick. That will likely happen with us as well, if we trade Bush off and get say the top OL prospect and additional picks in return, that OL is going to expect to be paid approximately what he would get as the #1 pick.

 

[dat_boy_yec]

I think Bush brings alot to the table. All those people saying well we already have DD, thats true but has Davis played in every game throughout his career, nope he hasnt. He already shows some signs or wearing down, I'm not saying he's through here or that I dont like him, but imagine if he suffered an injury next season even worst a season or career ending injury. Then who would we have, Wells as a starting RB and Morrency backing him up. Whereas if you have Bush he can share the load with DD letting him get more rest and minimizing the likelyhood of injuries and wear and tear for both players. Look at Pittsburg they have 3, three running backs that are capable of carrying the team by themselves, the bus, Staley and Parker what do we have one that can carry the load well, our RB's arent exactly dominant, and the reason DD has so many yds. is because he doesnt really share the load with anyone and our passing game isnt really utilized forcing DD to work so hard. A good running game opens up the passing opportunities and vice versa two top caliber rb's are better than one its not about how many yds a back gets but the improvement he brings to the offense. I would rather have two 900 yd backs then one 1,200 yd back. Also Bush can play slot and return punts, if you have two running backs in the backfield the defense wont know who to target play-action plays could take on a new meaning. The possibilities are immense the line will improve regardless of if we get new ppl or not because if you have a coach that knows what he's doing he will utilize the talent he has to its full capacity and then evaluate the talent. Of course this is all speculation, if Bush doesnt declare himself and we dont have the 1st pick then I would be all for trading down. The thing is Bush can bring so much to the table and make an impact next season, whereas linemen you know there are going to be good linemen next yr. in the draft, there might even be a Bush next yr. in the draft(if he doesnt declare himself this yr) bottom line there is only one bush and if we can have him come to tx this yr. we would be foolish not to take him. I would rather have one solid aspect to the team then an overall mediocre team, and I love to see the running game get a boost into the elite in the league.

 

[infantrycak]

Look at Pittsburg they have 3, three running backs that are capable of carrying the team by themselves, the bus, Staley and Parker

Neither Bettis nor Staley is a full time back anymore. Bettis has openly said he can't be full time. Staley has barely contributed anything to the Steelers this year. Parker has had two huge days against TN and Cincy and has struggled for a lot of the rest of the season. The Steelers are making do with good run blocking and a team of OK RB's not getting by platooning starting quality RB's.

 

[MorKnolle]

I think Bush brings alot to the table. All those people saying well we already have DD, thats true but has Davis played in every game throughout his career, nope he hasnt. He already shows some signs or wearing down, I'm not saying he's through here or that I dont like him, but imagine if he suffered an injury next season even worst a season or career ending injury. Then who would we have, Wells as a starting RB and Morrency backing him up.

The vast majority of NFL players miss a couple games here and there, and yes RB is an important position but you can't keep piling on RBs just for depth, especially adding one that is going to cost $50 million and a #1 overall pick, if you're spending all that on one then he better be your franchise RB and get the ball 25-35 times a game and be able to sustain that and produce with it, and I don't think Bush can carry that kind of load and our team is not build for him to do so. Wells and Morency are serviceable backup RBs.

Whereas if you have Bush he can share the load with DD letting him get more rest and minimizing the likelyhood of injuries and wear and tear for both players. Look at Pittsburg they have 3, three running backs that are capable of carrying the team by themselves, the bus, Staley and Parker what do we have one that can carry the load well, our RB's arent exactly dominant, and the reason DD has so many yds. is because he doesnt really share the load with anyone and our passing game isnt really utilized forcing DD to work so hard. A good running game opens up the passing opportunities and vice versa two top caliber rb's are better than one its not about how many yds a back gets but the improvement he brings to the offense. I would rather have two 900 yd backs then one 1,200 yd back.

As was already posted, Pittsburgh's RBs are not all capable of carrying the team, and either way the three of them combined are earning about half of what we'd have to pay Bush alone. The economics of drafting Bush and using him as a part-time RB are not good. We already drafted Wells and Morency to take a bit of the load off of Davis, and our coaches haven't used that properly to this point for whatever reason. Bush does not add that much value to the offense because he is not much, if any, of an upgrade over Davis at RB, he has proven he is a great athlete and a decent RB.

Also Bush can play slot and return punts, if you have two running backs in the backfield the defense wont know who to target play-action plays could take on a new meaning. The possibilities are immense the line will improve regardless of if we get new ppl or not because if you have a coach that knows what he's doing he will utilize the talent he has to its full capacity and then evaluate the talent.

Yes Bush can line up as a WR, but even if we made him a full-time WR you don't draft a WR #1 and spend $50 million on one. He would be a good PR, but I don't really want a franchise RB and a $50 million investment playing on special teams. The line should get better with better coaching, but we still have many guys on there that will likely never be better than backup quality, and a few of our better guys (and they still aren't real good) are getting older and we need to bring in younger guys, and this is definitely the year to do it as there are a couple very good LT-quality ones available and plenty of good interior linemen too.

 

[stevo3883]

I agree with a lot of the points dat boy yec made, although some paragraphs wouldve made it easier to read

The vast majority of NFL players miss a couple games here and there, and yes RB is an important position but you can't keep piling on RBs just for depth, especially adding one that is going to cost $50 million and a #1 overall pick, if you're spending all that on one then he better be your franchise RB and get the ball 25-35 times a game and be able to sustain that and produce with it, and I don't think Bush can carry that kind of load and our team is not build for him to do so. Wells and Morency are serviceable backup RBs..

Wells and Morency arent what id call serviceable backup rb's.
hell, morency has never even played.

We could expect Bush to get 15-20 carrier per game as well as 4-6 catches and maybe a punt return or two. thats about 25 touches, and for a guy that can take it to the house any second, thats pretty good.

As was already posted, Pittsburgh's RBs are not all capable of carrying the team, and either way the three of them combined are earning about half of what we'd have to pay Bush alone. The economics of drafting Bush and using him as a part-time RB are not good. We already drafted Wells and Morency to take a bit of the load off of Davis, and our coaches haven't used that properly to this point for whatever reason. Bush does not add that much value to the offense because he is not much, if any, of an upgrade over Davis at RB, he has proven he is a great athlete and a decent RB.

Come on now, I believe Bush is obviously an upgrade over Davis, at least in my eyes. This guy appears to be a dynamic player (i say appears because i dont want u jumping on me about how he has never played in the nfl)

but how can you say bush doesnt add much value to the offense???? We have 1 guy with the ability to make a play over 50 yards, and he rarely if ever does it. Bush isnt just another running back, hes a dynamic versatile player. He can go in the slot and help us with our huge WR deficiency. he can share carries with DD, and maybe then Davis can make it a whole season without 3 or 4 different injuries.

I can understand not wanting bush because you want the picks, but to say he doesnt add much value to the offense... thats just ridiculous.

Yes Bush can line up as a WR, but even if we made him a full-time WR you don't draft a WR #1 and spend $50 million on one. He would be a good PR, but I don't really want a franchise RB and a $50 million investment playing on special teams. The line should get better with better coaching, but we still have many guys on there that will likely never be better than backup quality, and a few of our better guys (and they still aren't real good) are getting older and we need to bring in younger guys, and this is definitely the year to do it as there are a couple very good LT-quality ones available and plenty of good interior linemen too.

Correct me if im wrong, but Bush wouldnt get anything near $50million. Im thinking along the lines of what Ronnie Brown got which is I believe like $42milliion.

You're right about this being the year to get some oline, and since we have more than 1 pick, we can do just that.

the 33rd pick in the draft is for all intents and purposes a 1st round pick, which can easily beused on one of the top tackles.

it seems we have a lot of players that arent better than backup quality everywhere, not just on the oline. Armstrong, Gaffney, Bradford, Rivers. This offense is so bloody borng and predictable, its like watching the special olympics.




and my final statement, people need to stop saying that Bush wont be able to run through our line when he gets hit in the backfield. Davis manages just fine, and gets some pretty big holes sometimes. Hes a quick guy getting to the hole, but Bush is at another level, and doesnt need even close to the time that Davis does.

And ive never seen anyone that can bounce to the outside like Bush can, its amazing to watch.


But if you want to call me stupid or whatever go for it, i tried to make all honest an reasonable claims that i feel can be backed up.

 

[Haams]

When I've watched this team this year, I have seen nothing but holes. Our blocking is bad, our QB is questionable, our WR's are below average, etc. I wish we were good enough to take Bush, but I don't want to suffer through any more seasons like this. When I look at the team I see three players who are unquestionably solid: Andre Johnson; Dunta Robinson; and Domanique Davis. With all the problems we have we can't afford to replace one of our solid parts. The only way Bush can improve this team is if he averages 300 yards and 4 TD's a game. I say let's start upgrading our weakest links (starting with the OL), and see what our playmakers can do. David Carr is a #1 pick, maybe he can break out with a better line and better recievers. Maybe if our offense stays on the field Andre Johnson can put up TO type numbers. Maybe with some blocking DD will run loose on people. These are all maybe's, but so is Bush.

I wanna see us trade that #1 pick for as many additional picks as we can. I'm all for trading the 1 for the 2, then the 2 for the 3 or 4, and perhaps that pick also. As long as we get our top pick at the O-Line. There are a lot of teams out there who are willing to give up an awful lot for Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, and Vince Young (yeah, he's gone). I'd like to come out of this draft with:
-the best LT
-a TE
-a backup QB (maybe Reggie McNeal?)
-a WR
-a center

I know I'm ignoring the defense, but screw it.

 

[royce1054]

well on my main posting site i am hearing from 49ers fans that they dont think 49ers would be willing to trade up because they think Nolan is going to do what Houston wants to do. So it might just be the Jets, GB, and N.O in the mix. We might have to work out a mock trade between those teams.

 

[infantrycak]

Correct me if im wrong, but Bush wouldnt get anything near $50million. Im thinking along the lines of what Ronnie Brown got which is I believe like $42milliion.

OK, you are wrong. The #1 pick will get about a 10% increase on last year's #1 pick money. Don't look at the total number, but the per year number. Last year--a little under $9 mil per year. #1 this year will get a contract for about $9.7 mil per year.

 

[tulexan]

well on my main posting site i am hearing from 49ers fans that they dont think 49ers would be willing to trade up because they think Nolan is going to do what Houston wants to do. So it might just be the Jets, GB, and N.O in the mix. We might have to work out a mock trade between those teams.

New Orleans is not going to trade up because Boogie Benson doesn't want to pay Matt Leinart $50 million. They are going to do what they always do and save as much money as possible and put a bad team on the field. And royce you are right the Niners are not going to trade up because they are in a worse position than we are. Nolan has a specific plan for the team to build them up and I don't think trading a bunch of draft picks for 1 player is in it. They are just getting out of cap trouble and are going to have to pay Julian Peterson a big contract. I don't think they can afford to fill their holes plus add a $50 million contract on to their team.

 

[royce1054]

New Orleans is not going to trade up because Boogie Benson doesn't want to pay Matt Leinart $50 million. They are going to do what they always do and save as much money as possible and put a bad team on the field. And royce you are right the Niners are not going to trade up because they are in a worse position than we are. Nolan has a specific plan for the team to build them up and I don't think trading a bunch of draft picks for 1 player is in it. They are just getting out of cap trouble and are going to have to pay Julian Peterson a big contract. I don't think they can afford to fill their holes plus add a $50 million contract on to their team.

that leaves the Jets and GB... i know GB's RB is leaving. And the Jets arent impressed with Leinharts arm.. so they might be more inclined to go Bush then Leinhart