Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Bryan Hoyer Fan Club
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Which is why Hoyer deserves some of the blame.. But the WR's don't get an out just because the pass isn't 100% perfect. If you get your hands on a ball late in the game, make the ******* catch. None of the passes were perfect but all of them looked catchable. I'm not a Hoyer fan but I don't pin this loss entirely on him.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I would agree that you SHOULDN'T, but you can see for yourself that anyone who is not Great is worthless to these guys. There is no good, just GREAT or BAD.
That is not true at all... I've never heard anyone accuse Hoyer of being great
JJ Watt is hanging out with Katy in that avatar; guess you think he's gay too.
You should tell him that.
Soooo during that stretch we got in the endzone and they did not...
...what's your point?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So. It doesn't make Hoyer a good QB. And that's exactly the point to be made here. If the defense isn't Raven-esque like it has been the last 4 weeks, Brian Hoyer isn't winning you a football game.
I guess my point is that there's enough "blame" to go around.
If you have, supposedly, one of the best defenses in the league and, also supposedly, the best defensive player in the NFL, and they let Buffalo run all over them for 140 (at a 5 yds/att clip), only manage one sack. and let Flacco's former backup throw for three TDs and run for another that's not ALL on the QB.
Again, I never said Hoyer would be a Brady or a Rodgers. I've said before, if O'Brien is going to roll with Hoyer - and I think he will for this season and possibly the next - we're gonna need a stud at RB and, to borrow your term, a Raven-esque defense if we're gonna win.
Last edited:
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
3 TDs in a game makes you GOOD. More makes you better. NOBODY said he was GREAT! Not even me. But he's NOT GARBAGE like many think ANY QB who is not GREAT AT THE MOMENT is. The standards are ridiculous.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That is reasonable. What happened? LOL! for those who think I'm serious.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
So you're arguing with leprechauns? I see no one around here arguing it is ALL on the QB.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
The point is we had 6 possessions (multiple with good field position) to take the lead and all we could do was tie.
You certainly cannot absolve the defense of its play, but there was a very long stretch in the 2nd half where we got a bunch of defensive stops and had a great chance to take control of the game and did not.
You're not looking very hard then.
Come on, we all knew going into the season it would take a herculean effort by the defense for this team to play winning football. Yesterday Hoyer had a pedestrian day, which is all you can expect from him. The defense on the other hand, they were just bad in the first half which ended up being too much for this offense to overcome. If you expect Hoyer to play like Brady, or Brees, or Rodgers, you're going to be disappointed every time he takes the field. This loss is on the defense. 21 points was more than enough to win the last 4 games, should have been this time too if the defense would have showed up in the first half.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I'm always reasonable, except when I'm not. LOL
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Point out a leprechaun.
The defense is not going to win every game or hold every opponent under 20. Ain't gonna happen. Sometimes the offense is going to have to step up and win a game. And I think that is all anyone is saying. Hoyer is not capable of stepping up and winning a game. Pedestrian is as good as he's gonna get, and that ain't good enough.
TexansFight
Veteran
Those were horrible passes. When a receiver's body and momentum is going one way and as a QB you throw the ball to the wrong shoulder with the momentum of the ball going the complete opposite way, that error belongs to the QB. People who really know football understand that completion % is not the be all end all. Throwing a ball where the receiver gets YAC and other ball placement items are what are important. Hoyer has the most deceiving stats imaginable. Cam Newton's passing numbers might not be great, but there is no question he makes game winning plays for his team and is my MVP unlike Hoyerrible.
Last edited:
Well said, man. Yesterday was the best you'll ever see from Brian Hoyer. This guy is another Trent Dilfer that needs high performing players and squads to succeed. He's never going to be a QB that can put a team on his back and will them to win, so the best you can hope for is yesterday's performance from him but much better play from defense, special teams, and the running game.
The problem is that our starting QBs have been nothing but backup caliber the last couple of seasons.
DC was a very unique situation for an expansion team. I would hope this franchise learned a few lessons from that experience, like giving a rookie QB a QB coach, decent line, and some guidance on how to be a leader. Maybe even give the young dude some time to develop before throwing him to the wolves.
This is exactly it, as well. We have to temper expectations about QBs like Hoyer. Yesterday is as good as he's going to get, so expecting anything above and beyond is just unrealistic. Blame O'Brien for him being our starter, our defense for not being able to hold the Bills to lower score, the special teams for not running back a kick for a score, the running game for not opening up some big plays, but keep it real about Hoyer. Yesterday was a career day for that dude, because he's never going to be any better than that.
Only in Houston can a perennial mediocre un-clutch QB have a fan club. Myopic or pathetic, but sad nonetheless.
I don't see anyone around here (and admittedly I haven't visited the gameday thread) mentioning the fact that the winning TD was scored by a guy that was WIDE-azz open either.
The theme seems to be why didn't Hoyer make up for the defenses screw up?
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm not saying they were good passes. The WR's still had a chance to make the play on all three balls and didn't. I don't even care about YAC. Just make the play and get a first down. The ball to Shorts was good, he just took a licking and couldn't hold onto it. The pass to Washington was horrible, no doubt, but I can't be the only one who saw that Washington got both hands on it. Make the catch & move the chains. Same thing with the Hopkins ball, that was a ball I expect him to catch. If we expect Hoyer to be MVP good, then we're going to be disappointed every game. Cam Newton was a #1 pick and is a franchise QB, Hoyer is not. In order for us to win with Hoyer, we're going to need someone to step up and make a catch on those balls. Maybe I just got tired of hearing that the Texans lead the league in dropped passes yesterday. If that's what you expect from the WR's, then they didn't disappoint late in the game.
Haven't you been? Pretty much all year?
kingtexan
All Pro
I don't think he is gay, but if I did I would have no problem conveying that message.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Ryan Fitzpatrick threw 6 TDs in a game. Matt Flynn threw 6, Gary Hogeboom 5. Talk about ridiculous standards. Those aren't good QBs either.
Brian Hoyer was throwing behind receivers the whole game. He underthrew 2 deep balls where the receiver had his man beat both times and would have been TDs but Hoyer couldn't get it there. 3 possessions in the 4th quarter with the game on the line, he leads the Texans to 13 yards total offense and doesn't get them past their own 20 yard line. I could go on and on but you'll just pull some random stat out of your ass and declare him the king of good.
Brian Hoyer didn't lose this particular game against Buffalo, not on his own, but he sure as hell didn't win it either. If the defense isn't playing lights out and winning games, Brian Hoyer is not going to. Brian Hoyer is NOT a good QB.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
How many times have you seen a QB throw for 300+, 400 yards in a game and lose?
Fan-freaking-tastic!!! The great Brian Hoyer threw for 293 yards and 3 TDs in a loss. I guess we're on the right track.
Never mind that he couldn't do jackshit in the 4th quarter where they could have taken the lead or tied. He was 0-7 in those three 4th quarter drives the Texans never got beyond their own 20.
Brian Hoyer is not the answer and I just don't get how anybody thinks he could be. He's not good. Not saying I don't hope he throws 6 TDs against the Pats next week. I'm rooting for him because he's who we've got. But he's not good.
Are all yards created equal? Are the defenses approaching things the same throughout?
More to the point, does anyone here feel confidant, with time running out and we need 80 yards and a TD, with Hoyer behind center?
Because I don't think only fans in Houston would pick that apart as not being good enough.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Mostly it depends on how that offense has been playing that day, but to answer your question, no i'm not all that confident in any qb that has to drive his team down 80+ yds for a TD as time is running out.. whether it be Brady, Rodgers or a prime Manning..just too many variables & its a totally different animal from driving a team into FG range vs. for a TD; it's just exponentially more difficult to do. It's the difference between Brady having 6-7 SB rings instead of 4..It's the difference in alot of teams over the years..some with great qbs..some with bad qbs winning big games.
Defenses approach things differently in those situations yes..but so do offenses...playcalling changes on both sides.
Wonderful bit of gymnastics there.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah..b/c the offense was the only side of the ball that played in the 4th...b/c the offense was out there defending Charles Clay in the seam in the 4th..or should i say not defending him.
& it's not that i think he's the answer...It just seems patently ridiculous for folks to be in here belittling a guy who posted a 90 something rating with no TO's to be blaming him for your team's loss............... when your defense gave up 30 pts & couldn't stop the opposing offense for ****.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No gymnastics involved, I just don't cling to oversubscribed NFL axioms is all. Never have especially when my eyes tell me otherwise.
No, you just subscribe to calling things oversubscribed NFL axioms and blaming media and all other manner of things instead of looking at your QB with two minutes left and saying, "go ahead, lead".
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
lol, don't get mad at me b/c your a sheep & you bought into hook line and sinker...
Sheep ... when you've hit a brickwall in your argument on the internet ...
... sheep.
... sheep.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
brickwall? No..that'd be the guy who falls back on NFL axioms & 1-2 drives in a 56 minute ball game to justify their stance..
What is this axiom you keep going on about?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That a qb's positional importance somehow means that its on him to make the plays that win a game...
Of course it is. It's astonishing that anyone who follows the game can't accept that fact.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
This is what I think we can all agree upon. Hoyer is not going to single-handedly win us football games. He's not going to carry this football team on his back like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady can. If we're going to continue winning this year, we're going to need the defense to not allow Charles Clay to catch a 50-yard TD pass late in the game. We also might need a WR to make a catch that's behind him to keep a drive moving. Neither happened. Hoyer is who we thought he was when we signed him; an average NFL QB.
kingtexan
All Pro
No, but he is the leader and needs to put other offensive players in a position to do so.
I wonder how many drops we had there in the 4th qtr.
I don't know what the answer is, but I remember several drops & I think quite a few in the 4th.
I know many of the passes were off target, but just using the rules we'd use for any other QB/WR... if it git his hands, should have been caught.
I just rewatched that 4 & out possession. The first pass was off Nate's fingertips (Shorts also slowed down on his route which compromised Washington's route. Had Shorts not impeded Washington, Nate could have been in a better position to make the catch). Then the ball low & behind Nuk... if there was no pass rush, Hoyer probably could have thrown a better ball.
Then the one he threw outside when Shorts was looking inside... route combo looked like it was designed to get Shorts open to the outside. There was also a safety in the middle... maybe Hoyer threw that ball where it was supposed to go.
The last one, he was hit as he was thrown.
180 degrees from where I was this morning. Yes. I know. I'm still not on the Hoyer train, but maybe it wasn't him that didn't step up in that game.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I understand the desire for great, but refusing to recognize good or average play is frustrating for those who see the entire spectrum.
Schaub is 2 for 2 in games with pick 6's.
Where's nitrofish when you need an objective opinion on Texans QB's.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
You don't see the entire spectrum though. So quit lying about that. You ignore the guy constantly throwing behind receivers, overthrowing, under throwing, padding stats in garbage time, against crap defenses, not being able to throw his team on his shoulders and go win a game on a day his defense needs him and is having a bad day, you totally ignore all of that.
The Carolina Panthers defense had a bad day Sunday. Cam Newton leads his team to TDs twice in the 4th quarter for the lead and the win. Brian Hoyer's not doing that.
You think posting Hoyer's QB rating and declaring him a good QB is the entire spectrum? Now you're just trolling. And if you're on this Hoyer is good BS just to get a rise out of people, then what a childish bunch of BS that is, and you are nothing but a troll.
Again, he's not "the" reason the Texans lost Sunday. I'm not saying that. But he didn't do anything to win it either. 3 4th quarter drives that could have given them the lead or tied it, they gain 13 yards, don't get the ball past the 20. Texans D gives up 38 to the Saints last week, you think Hoyer's going to win that game like Cam did? Not a freaking chance. He's not good.
I don't disagree with any of that. My argument is against the OPs claim that #7 is a good QB. He's not.