jonO_miller
Practice Squad
ha w/e take their middle and dj. Let them keep ian gold and stick ryans back at olb
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Bronco Wanting to be a Texan
- Thread starter kubs-elway
- Start date
Roughnecks
Waterboy
He throws a lot of int's. One day he looks like a leader the next 3 games he throws 8 int's no thank you Carr is doing fine and has shown he will give up his body or run someone over for a first down or TD.
Word out of denver is that Jake Plummer hates the new o'coordinator, and shannahan. He has told friends that he will either be cut, or force a cut, and do whatever he can to play for kubiak once again. I believe jake will never be great, but he could take the texans to the playoffs. I bet he would come cheep after a bad year in denver, and probally force carr to play good or get the hell out of town.
Is this totally through the grapvine? I mean C'mon, I don't think any QB should be that upset when you're still winning games. And links? Even the Broncos message boards should have a topic about this...
brewhaus
Rookie
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
Hey if you are going to put stats up then get it right. Plummer did not throw 55 td's 2 yrs ago nor did he throw 44 last year and this thread has no credibility.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Those are the number of 20+ and 40+ passing plays. The TD/INT's were:
2003 15/7
2004 27/20
2005 18/7
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
Dude, that funny 'cause I got the same feeling about that "thing"! I can't help but think he looks like 70's porn film actor.
FanFromCali
Noob
Plummer was a great QB in college but has done very little in the pros. (Kind of like a certain 3rd string RB the team has right now.) The fact is the Broncos haven't won because of him, they have won in spite of him.
This is money that would be better spent in other areas.
This is money that would be better spent in other areas.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
If you're the starting QB for a 7-2 team, I'm suspecting that you are not too bad
That's not an assumption I'd make.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
If you're the starting QB for a 7-2 team, I'm suspecting that you are not too bad
Having never said he was bad, I do think he's the primary reason thier offense has kind of sputtered this year. If it weren't for thier D, they'd be in a completly different situation. Right?
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD
2006 den | 9 | 137 248 55.2 1595 6.4 10 10 | 29 92 1 |
Not all that impressive, so I would look elsewhere for the Bronco's success this season
2006 den | 9 | 137 248 55.2 1595 6.4 10 10 | 29 92 1 |
Not all that impressive, so I would look elsewhere for the Bronco's success this season
hollywood_texan
All Pro
You know what is interesting about this thread is that there are many people that are Carr supporters that do not want Plummer.
However, the Carr supporters, not necessarily these in particular, just the vibe from the group as a whole over the past year or so, talk about how great a coach Kubiak is in providing improvements to the play of the QB and site Plummer as their most recent example. Yet, they want to have nothing to do with Plummer.
It just seems so interesting how the Carr supporters can be so supportive of Kubiak and what he did for Plummer, and yet they don't even want to consider him for the team. It's amazing how will take any Bronco like Ron Dayne but not anyone that replaces Carr.
One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field.
I am not a big Plummer fan but I think he might provide an improvement over Carr. But, I just I don't think this situation is possible because Plummer would have to take a huge paycut when he could get a nice contract somehwere else and be a starter. This is if Denver wants to unload him, which would probably mean a trade of some sort. I don't know Plummer's contract situation and what are the ways he could end up in Houston.
Having said that, Plummer might like his chances going against Carr and winning the position with an incentive laden contract because he can play with Kubiak again and already knows the system.
However, the Carr supporters, not necessarily these in particular, just the vibe from the group as a whole over the past year or so, talk about how great a coach Kubiak is in providing improvements to the play of the QB and site Plummer as their most recent example. Yet, they want to have nothing to do with Plummer.
It just seems so interesting how the Carr supporters can be so supportive of Kubiak and what he did for Plummer, and yet they don't even want to consider him for the team. It's amazing how will take any Bronco like Ron Dayne but not anyone that replaces Carr.
One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field.
I am not a big Plummer fan but I think he might provide an improvement over Carr. But, I just I don't think this situation is possible because Plummer would have to take a huge paycut when he could get a nice contract somehwere else and be a starter. This is if Denver wants to unload him, which would probably mean a trade of some sort. I don't know Plummer's contract situation and what are the ways he could end up in Houston.
Having said that, Plummer might like his chances going against Carr and winning the position with an incentive laden contract because he can play with Kubiak again and already knows the system.
brewhaus
Rookie
Carr has his ups. Carr has his downs. IMO the Texans can get 2 more years of good play out of him. After that, who knows. In those 2 years that are left, I really would like to see the thin spots of the team built up. Those thin spots are at every other position on the team. As was said earlier (I think), Depth is a good thing.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Carr has his ups. Carr has his downs. IMO the Texans can get 2 more years of good play out of him. After that, who knows. In those 2 years that are left, I really would like to see the thin spots of the team built up. Those thin spots are at every other position on the team. As was said earlier (I think), Depth is a good thing.
Huh? What, do you think he's getting old or something? Do you think he's just not good enough, but are willing to put up with him for two more years until the rest of the team is better? I don't get that statement.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
First, I am not a Carr fan, but not a hater either. Just want to see his progression this season and then I will make my decision...
Second, I don't remember anyone (Carr hater or Carr pimp) celebrating the signing of Ron Dayne. I think everyone knew what that signing was. We needed a RB as it was becoming evident that DD was not going to make it back. I think Dayne was signed for the obvious reason and that was he knew the system and could come in late.
Plummer was only brought to Denver with Griese to fill the big shoes left by Elway. Denver had to make a decision between Griese and Plummer and chose the lesser of the two evils.
With respect to Kubiak, I was in his corner the first time he interviewed for the Head Coaching position (pre David Carr draft). With that said I trust his evaluation of talent. If he thinks that he can succeed with Carr than so be it. Again, DC has 7 more games to sway my opinion one way or the other.
In the end, if David isn't the guy, certainly the Texans can find a better alternative to Jake "the porn 'stache" Plummer.
"One guy even stated above that the Broncos have won so many games under Plummer despite his average play. You could make the same arguement about Carr and the three wins this season. The defense basically won those games by keeping it a low scoring game or providing a short field".
Denver has a lot more talent. Period. Also the same defense that you are talking about gave up about 10,000 yards and allowed the oponents 64% third down conversion success rate.... It aint apples to apples...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Are you referring to the Texans defense giving up 10,000 yards?
I assume you are being sarcastic and commenting on their poor play the first three games. The first three games the defense was horrible but the offense was still slow and predicatable as always. The offense rarely gives the defense a lead to play with or even shortens up the clock.
The defense has played a lot better since the Washington game and the offense still can't muster more than 17 points in a game without a lot of help from the defense. With the offense, it's the same old thing.
The biggest improvement this season from last season is the defense. The defense keeps it close and the offense tries to win a close game just like the old Capers way.
Not much has really changed since Capers was fired if you really look at it.
Which brings me to my original point, if people are so high on Kubiak and what he did with Plummer and how the equates to Carr, why not at least entertain the idea of getting Plummer?
Plummer already knows the system and would provide serious competition for Carr.
Another post on another thread was someone saying that they still aren't sold on Richard Smith. This person is a very strong Carr supporter and doesn't want to entertain the idea of Plummer? It just doesn't make sense to me.
My point is that it just seems Carr gets a blank check for the remainder of his contract, which will be a total of 7 years with the Texans. Carr's stats are a little a better than last year, but they aren't great and Carr's play is not critical to a Texan's victory. At least not yet, which is probably the point, give Carr more time and no competition so he can develop. That seems to be the mantra.
I think at the right price, Plummer would be a great idea for the Texans.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Carr's play is not critical to a Texans victory? You have got to be joking.
So far this season, when he plays good or great we are in the game.
When he plays bad, we lose. That sounds like a pretty critical part of the game.
Carr is a very consistent QB (rarely great, rarely bad) & Plummer is the exact opposite.
Sure, Plummer will go out there & throw for 300 yds & 3 TDs to win the game. Then the next two weeks he will go out & throw 2 or 3 INTs.
The way our defense is playing right now I would say that we need a consistent QB who wont lose us a game.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Yes I was being sarcastic with the 10,000 yards... and while I like the improvement, lets not all start high fiving each other just yet. The improved D includes two wins over the Kitties (Leftnut and Garrad each), a loss to a bad Tack team and anotehr loss to a pretty good Giants team although even Giants fan will tell you that Eli is still inconsistent. Again, I like the improvement, but there is still a long way to go..
Anyway, I have never liked Plummer but I hear what you are saying about giving Carr competion so that he has to "earn" the starting position. In fact, that has always been a concern of mine that he has never been pushed. However, I also think that if Carr's season isn't a marked improvement (how we define that, is a different conversation), we should just rid ourselves of him. Contrary to popular beleif, there are teams out there that still think highly of him, so he has value.
I am a Kubiak fan for his whole body of work. Not anything to do with how he improved Plummer.
Anyway, I have never liked Plummer but I hear what you are saying about giving Carr competion so that he has to "earn" the starting position. In fact, that has always been a concern of mine that he has never been pushed. However, I also think that if Carr's season isn't a marked improvement (how we define that, is a different conversation), we should just rid ourselves of him. Contrary to popular beleif, there are teams out there that still think highly of him, so he has value.
I am a Kubiak fan for his whole body of work. Not anything to do with how he improved Plummer.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Since the Washington game, the defense has played good enough for the Texans to win the last six games. You could make the arguement that the defense was exposed in the second half of the Dallas game, but I really think the offense just dug the hole too deep early in the second half and the team kind of just gave up.
Bottom line, the defense has played very good the last six games. But, I do agree with you that the defensive problems are not resolved completely and the secondary needs a lot of work to compete against a very potent passing game. In addition, we really don't how this defense can play against a strong offense from top to bottom since their marked improvement. Basically, the jury still out on the defense.
My whole point about this Plummer thing is that entertaining the thought of replacing Carr should be done if it makes sense from a cap perspective with the possibility of upgrading the position. If the jury is still out on the defense and Richard Smith, then the jury is still out on Carr and with all his chances.
If Carr and Plummer were released the same day, I think Plummer would be picked up first or have first choice of his team. Sure, Plummer is older, but Carr still hasn't proved their is enough upside to hang in with him. Plummer is a proven commodity, you know what you get. Whereas with Carr, he is young (but not for much longer) and if he gets enough help, he just may become a good QB.
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
Carr is probably one of the physically toughest QB's in the league. You look around at all of the injuries and you under estimate his worth. He has been hit hard on many an occasion and kept on ticking. NFL coaches value this with the defenses that are out there today. In reality many teams are having O-line problems this year. As long as Carr is strong and healthy he will be in demand. Another factor is he doesn't have a big mouth and is supportive of his coach and the organization. Plummer carries baggage and the NFL knows it.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I agree with you that Carr is physical tough and doesn't get injured regularly, but that has nothing to do with victories.
Same goes with him not having a big mouth. Who cares?
Winning is why I pay for season tickets and for being a fan.
As a long a player isn't a criminal, I believe he can be a jerk all he wants as long as he wins.
It is interesting how all of the points you make about Carr do not translate directly to an efffective Texans offense and victories.
Here are the things Carr has show so far that he can't do:
1. Run the two-minute drill
2. Pocket awareness
3. Hang on to the football
4. Throw deep down the middle of the field between the hashes
I am fine with Carr being the QB through 2008 to complete his contract as long as there are no other reasonable alternatives. But if something comes along, flush it out because the QB position isn't locked down.
Carr's job is no more locked up than anyone's elses job on this, which is really my point, or really the way it should be.
Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.
I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach!
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.
I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach!
I will give you that one DB!!!!
Let's just say there may be a trend and a trend going in the right direction for change with regard to the offense.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Going for it on 4th and inches with a three point lead and 1:40 on the clock in our own territory to win the game.
I'd say a LOT has changed since Capers was fired. The rest of the team just has to catch up to our head coach!
LOL! Ain't that the truth! After the 4th down call. The team might just start filing in behind him.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I see this spiraling out of control soon, so back to the original topic - I still wouldn't take Plummer. If Huard becomes available since it appears that Trent Green is really the Chiefs guy, I might think about him or someone similar with a W/C offense background.
With Respect to your 4 points:
1) I think that is unfair assessment because the two minute drill is a function of the coaching. Whether Kubes doesn't think he can run it or not - remains to be seen.
2) I think the sack numbers show great improvement in this area. I don't think we woke up with the O-line that Dan Marino had overnight.
3) Fumbles are a problem... Ask Roman Gabriel, Warren Moon and others.
4) I seem to remember a deep ball between the hash marks that Corey Bradford went the distance on and another that was thrown on a rope, but dropped by Jermaine Lewis.
Let me preface this by saying, we need to take shots down the field to be sure. Now, the ideaology behind the West Coast offense and its hybrids is to complete shorter, underneath routs. In effect, it becomes a ball control offense with the potential of your receivers turning it into big plays (See Jerry Rice and the main architect of the W/C offense Bill Walsh)
Last, I still agree with your point to push him or make him earn it - just please not Plummer.
With Respect to your 4 points:
1) I think that is unfair assessment because the two minute drill is a function of the coaching. Whether Kubes doesn't think he can run it or not - remains to be seen.
2) I think the sack numbers show great improvement in this area. I don't think we woke up with the O-line that Dan Marino had overnight.
3) Fumbles are a problem... Ask Roman Gabriel, Warren Moon and others.
4) I seem to remember a deep ball between the hash marks that Corey Bradford went the distance on and another that was thrown on a rope, but dropped by Jermaine Lewis.
Let me preface this by saying, we need to take shots down the field to be sure. Now, the ideaology behind the West Coast offense and its hybrids is to complete shorter, underneath routs. In effect, it becomes a ball control offense with the potential of your receivers turning it into big plays (See Jerry Rice and the main architect of the W/C offense Bill Walsh)
Last, I still agree with your point to push him or make him earn it - just please not Plummer.
hollywood_texan
All Pro
I hear ya, and my main point is really to keep the feelers out there and make a move if it makes sense. I really don't think Plummer is the answer, but I would definitely listen to the arguements for Plummer and keep an open mind.
Like I said, I am fine with Carr being the starter for the remainder of his contract to just put this whole thing to rest, but let's keep the option open though.
I guess what I am really saying is, I don't think Carr has locked down his job (some people have talked on this thread that Carr is a lock, which is what I was really responding to) and if the right opportunity comes along, I hope the Texans really analyze it honestly.
Thanks for bearing with me, I wasn't trying to spiral this out of control.
RickDenver
Practice Squad
During the preseason I posted this as a possibility and did not get much of a response. What has not been mentioned is that Plummer has one year remaining on his contract. The thing that make it interesting is that last year has NO guarenteed money which would make it so Denver could release Plummer with NO cap hit. This is most likely Plummer's last season in Denver. Cutler has his season to sit and watch and will be taking over as the Denver QB next year. The only queation is Does Houston want to bring in Plummer to force Carr to grow as a QB. I think something that has hurt CArr's progress is that from day one he has been the guy with no real competetion for the starting QB. It has just been him by default
brewhaus
Rookie
Timbuck2
Practice Squad
i don't understand the comments made about bronco players (plummer and others) joining the team and excelling because they know kubiak's system. my somewhat foggy memories of kubiak and his broncos was an offense that had a running back that gained 1500 yds/season (see portis, gary, anderson...), plummer throwing for 3200 yds/season and an offense that averaged around 25 pts/gm. the texans are not that team. it would take the whole denver roster to accomplish that. do you see how dayne has fit into kubiak's system this year? do we really want more retreads from denver?
brncoz1fan
Practice Squad
Oh what a dream come true to get rid of Plummer! If anything do you think we could trade QBs for this weekend?? And how about Kubiak too!! To make it even Broncos get Kubiak, Carr and Dayne and will give you Plummer, Miles, Tatum "I can't handle it" Bell, and a couple of hot cheerleaders!
I love fantasy football!
I love fantasy football!
HJam72
Hall of Fame
bah007
Hall of Fame
It's gonna take more than that.
We're pretty set at cheerleader. I would bet we have the best unit in the league.
brncoz1fan
Practice Squad
I am considering throwing Shanny into the mix but I better sleep on it.
You got Miles for crying out loud!! Do you know how many small children and drunks are going to miss him???
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I see the snake going to a team like Oakland before coming to Houston.
Yeah. As much as Plummer may or may not want to be reunited with Kubiak, he's going to prefer going to a place where he's the recognized starter not somewhere he's going to have to beat someone out for the job. I bet a team like the Raiders, the Bills, the Lions, the Vikings or someone like that who doesn't have a really strong QB would just give him the job and then try to draft someone to groom behind him.
Of course, that means that the Raiders have to admit that Walters isn't their guy or that hte Bills will have to admit that Losman isn't their guy or the Lions will have to admit... uh... well... the Lions won't actually have to admit anything.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Well, at least send the cheerleaders and we'll give them the physical.
If they... uh... "fail"... the physical, will you send us some replacements? And... uh... how many times can we... uh... "fail" them and you send new ones?
brewhaus
Rookie
It isn't that I don't think he is not good (or good enough), I just believe he will not be the one taking the Texans to the Promised Land.
At this point I would ask that you please "Chill" because I am not bashing DC, I am only stating my opinion. It is only that. "My opinion". Please don't Negative rep me for having an opinion.
brncoz1fan
Practice Squad
You got a deal!!!!
Come on guys, get your head in the game! I'm offering Tatum Bell! Lord knows you all need an RB and T.Bell would be a better addition to what you got and I don't want to hear about Lundi. He had a couple of good games (I don't count pre season especially against our 3rd string Broncos) but YPC dropping and no injury excuse. T.Bells turf toe should be all better now. The deadline is noon today!
Malloy
Hall of Fame
My point was just, if he's playing for the Broncos and they're not losing because of Plummer playing poorly, then he's prolly not THAT bad
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that's all
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
My point was just, if he's playing for the Broncos and they're not losing because of Plummer playing poorly, then he's prolly not THAT bad
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, that's all
That's cool. I still wouldn't want Plummer as a Texan. Would you?
Malloy
Hall of Fame
The jury is still out on that one to be honest. No-mistake Jake of 2005 sure looked cool.
If Kubiak wants Plummer here to create pressure on Carr I'm all for it, if he's not, then that's quite ok with me too
That was a kinda weak statement wouldn't you say so ?
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
The jury is still out on that one to be honest. No-mistake Jake of 2005 sure looked cool.
If Kubiak wants Plummer here to create pressure on Carr I'm all for it, if he's not, then that's quite ok with me too
That was a kinda weak statement wouldn't you say so ?
I would have to guess he'd have to take a paycut to come here. Hey, I'm all for having DC challenged for his position.
okay leave my Shanny alone, he is one of the great masterminds in nfl history. I wouldnt mind taking Kubes back though :wink: and Ron Danyne, and maybe getting Kyle Shannhan lol. BTW I doubt Jake Plummer is going anywhere, as much as I want Cutler in, plummer is still a good QB who can get the job done.