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Brock Osweiler agrees to 4 year 72 million

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Texian said:
Beginning the experiment earlier with a lesser talent under the the guise of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The trade out, (3) high draft picks vs $37MM GTD/4 YR $72MM contract. A rookie draft pick would command $20MM over 4 years. That's a difference of $52MM. $52MM that could be used to sign two or three above average free agents.
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Well, there goes the concept of building through the draft, huh?

Now, let's step back and consider this,
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odds are Luck, Mariota and Bortles will out perform Osweiller, Wentz achieves Mayock prediction of Luck's ceiling or Goff performs at his prediction of Aaron Rodgers ceiling. The risk for the greater reward is in favor of patience and trading for Wentz or Goff.
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If, if, if, if.

There's nothing to say that Osweiler is going to be worse than Luck, Mariota, or Bortles. There's nothing to say that Bortles is going to be the Jags starting QB past next season, or that Luck's chances to become a good QB are blown by the damage he takes behind that line. There's nothing to say that Mariota will ever play more than 5-6 games in a season.

But most importantly, the odds of Wentz being the next Luck (assuming that Luck evolves into some great QB) or Goff being the next Aaron Rodgers are not very good.

You remind me of that guy on First Take claiming that Vince Young was going to win multiple Super Bowls and be a perennial all pro, except you're doing it with Wentz, Goff, and Bortles.

I would have been fine if OB and Smith had chosen to package up all those draft picks and move up to take one of those guys. Because that is one approach and if they think one of those guys is worth it and that they can pull it off, great. But I'm also fine with them getting the best QB on the FA market to address a glaring need, especially since they still have room to make more moves if necessary.

The only important thing is that they make the right decision. It all comes down to their assessments being right.
 
So my options are 1: assume Osweiler gets his worst possible outcome and Luck (Very bad Oline), Bortles (Turnover King), and Mariota, Wentz, and Goff have their very best outcomes,
or 2: go back to 1.

I'm done now. I'm willing to admit when you make a valid point but now you're being stubborn and only highlighting Osweilers floor (which everyone acknowledges is possible) and everyone elses ceilings.

Again, don't care about the contract, and even with Osweilers contract we had space to sign one other quality free agent after cutting Hoyer but the front office still didn't make a move. Now that Chris Givens and Andre Smith have signed elsewhere I'm not too ecstatic about the rest of the FA pool and the only reason I hope we sign someone now is so we can stay above the 90% floor when we cut Hoyer.
 
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The world according to Texian.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Well, there goes the concept of building through the draft, huh?



If, if, if, if.

There's nothing to say that Osweiler is going to be worse than Luck, Mariota, or Bortles. There's nothing to say that Bortles is going to be the Jags starting QB past next season, or that Luck's chances to become a good QB are blown by the damage he takes behind that line. There's nothing to say that Mariota will ever play more than 5-6 games in a season.

But most importantly, the odds of Wentz being the next Luck (assuming that Luck evolves into some great QB) or Goff being the next Aaron Rodgers are not very good.

You remind me of that guy on First Take claiming that Vince Young was going to win multiple Super Bowls and be a perennial all pro, except you're doing it with Wentz, Goff, and Bortles.

I would have been fine if OB and Smith had chosen to package up all those draft picks and move up to take one of those guys. Because that is one approach and if they think one of those guys is worth it and that they can pull it off, great. But I'm also fine with them getting the best QB on the FA market to address a glaring need, especially since they still have room to make more moves if necessary.

The only important thing is that they make the right decision. It all comes down to their assessments being right.
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I was simply playing your, Now, let's step back and consider this, Game. While Wentz has been compared Luck and Goff compared to Rodgers or Brady, Osweiller never was.
 
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Texian said:
Re Elway Kubiak evaluation, QB is the most important position on a football team and Elway Kubiak opted to franchise Vonn Miller and not Brock Osweiller. In addition, instead of offering a franchise QB salary. they opted for the middle of the road.
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So you're saying Elway can do no wrong?
 
Texian said:
I was simply playing your, Now, let's step back and consider this, Game. While Wentz has been compared Luck and Goff compared to Rodgers or Brady, Osweiller never was.
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See, I don't even consider those valid data points. I don't care about who player X reminds scout Y of because that's just irrelevant fantasy. Who was Tom Brady compared to? Brian Griese. If you want to go back to the draft, Michael Lombardi didn't think Osweiler was a first-day prospect, but Gil Brandt did. So what? Most people thought he needed time to develop and improve. He's had that time. He's not the guy he was back then anymore.

The only question is whether he can play NOW. What I've seen in those games is a guy who can make throws, a guy who can improvise, a guy who stepped up when the bright lights were on.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
If, if, if, if.

But most importantly, the odds of Wentz being the next Luck (assuming that Luck evolves into some great QB) or Goff being the next Aaron Rodgers are not very good.
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There's also no guarantee three draft picks would get the job done. McNair threw it out there, but it most likely will cost more.


The Pencil Neck said:
The only important thing is that they make the right decision. It all comes down to their assessments being right.
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& this isn't some zero sum game. No reason Os can't become a top 10 QB in the league & Wentz & Goff being top 10 as well. No reason the three of them can't be voted to the same pro bowl, or multiple all-pros.

Today we talk about Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees... most over 30, most will be moving aside, making room for new blood.

The most important thing here, is that O'b can do what he said he can do with Osweiler.
 
Mollywhopper said:
In the last few days I've totaled up, according to posts around here, that we'll need roughly 194,773,908,239,843 draft picks to cover all our holes.

We should apparently take a QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, C, DE, DT, LB, and S. Maybe a couple of each. Maybe a K. And cuz depth.

Did I miss anyone?

Yikes.

Super Bowl LI!
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GM, Owner, Medical staff, and a few new coaches too.
 
thunderkyss said:
There's also no guarantee three draft picks would get the job done. McNair threw it out there, but it most likely will cost more.




& this isn't some zero sum game. No reason Os can't become a top 10 QB in the league & Wentz & Goff being top 10 as well. No reason the three of them can't be voted to the same pro bowl, or multiple all-pros.

Today we talk about Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees... most over 30, most will be moving aside, making room for new blood.

The most important thing here, is that O'b can do what he said he can do with Osweiler.
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It's virtually a lock that it would take more than three.

Titans GM wants a king's ransom. Certainly more than Smith and OB would want to give up, especially considering it's with a division opponent.
 
Texian is the same guy who stated in another thread the Ravens should draft Wentz and trade Flacco for picks. Week later, Flacco re-ups for big money.
 
corytx8 said:
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No point of arguing with Texian, he has his opinion and is going to stick to it like white on rice. I say we carry on and revisit this thread 2 years from now after Oz works out or busts.
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I just found out there is an ignore feature on this forum. Use it, love it, live it
 
FuzzyLogic said:
So Elway picked Miller, possibly the second best defender in the NFL and it was skill and homework and a great GM. The Texans and Rick Smith have the best defender in the NFL so that makes Rick Smith what? Oh yeah, a lucky chump.

I'm not a Rick Smith fan but - come on man.
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Well if you followed this team more, you'd know that it was a Wade Phillips pick. That's what it was. It was his first off season and he was brought here to turn over the defense. They used all their resources in the off season to bring guys in and to draft defense that year. Wade was the guy telling them what players he needed to run his scheme.

And what does that comparison matter any way? The Texans haven't hardly done squat with Watt in comparison to what the Broncos have. They've won one out of two Sb's, and been to the playoffs for 5 straight years. The success between both teams isn't even comparable.
 
Texecutioner said:
Well if you followed this team more, you'd know that it was a Wade Phillips pick. That's what it was. It was his first off season and he was brought here to turn over the defense. They used all their resources in the off season to bring guys in and to draft defense that year. Wade was the guy telling them what players he needed to run his scheme.

And what does that comparison matter any way? The Texans haven't hardly done squat with Watt in comparison to what the Broncos have. They've won one out of two Sb's, and been to the playoffs for 5 straight years. The success between both teams isn't even comparable.
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Hi! Thanks for chiming in, but since you don't know me at all, you have no idea how much or little I follow this team.

The comparison mattered in the context in which it was written and the point was made. You didn't get it because it didn't say "everything sucks".
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Hi! Thanks for chiming in, but since you don't know me at all, you have no idea how much or little I follow this team.

The comparison mattered in the context in which it was written and the point was made. You didn't get it because it didn't say "everything sucks".
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When you ask a silly question based on a poor comparison, it doesn't surprise me that you slid back in with this response. Trying to justify a previous post that was asinine from the jump regarding Smith and Elway being even remotely comparable was a bad idea from the ztart.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
Hi! Thanks for chiming in, but since you don't know me at all, you have no idea how much or little I follow this team.

The comparison mattered in the context in which it was written and the point was made. You didn't get it because it didn't say "everything sucks".
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When you ask a silly question based on a poor comparison, it doesn't surprise me that you slid back in with this response. Trying to justify a previous post that was asinine from the jump regarding Smith and Elway being even remotely comparable was a bad idea from the start.
 
Texecutioner said:
When you ask a silly question based on a poor comparison, it doesn't surprise me that you slid back in with this response. Trying to justify a previous post that was asinine from the jump regarding Smith and Elway being even remotely comparable was a bad idea from the start.
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Common reply for people of your ilk, you can't comprehend it so it is asinine. I stand by the comment, and in the context it made sense, this is an open forum so I don't feel the need to justify my post to you. I'm done with you.
 
Texian said:
disingenious, NO! Simple Math, YES! Assume OZ flops, that's 2 wasted years minimum, you're back at square one, it will take a minimum of 2 years to put a decent replacement on the field. Contrary to popular belief there is no difference in drafting a flop and signing a flop, both will set you back 4 to 5 years.
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False.

Chances are the Texans will know what they have with Oz by the end of this season. That means they could absolutely still draft a QB high in next year's draft. That would put them 1 year behind, not the "2 wasted years" you keep going on and on about.

One other thing. You keep talking about patience being the winning formula. So explain to me how trading away a bunch of top draft picks fits into your narrative of being patient? It's the antithesis of patience when your team throws all their eggs in one basket hoping they strike gold with your Wentz/Goff infatuation.

Under our scenario, and the Texans as well, they have this year to see what they have with Oz. If they aren't happy, they STILL have all their top picks next year that could then be used on another QB. Oz would get paid one more year while the rookie QB sits and watches, Oz gets cut after year 2, and then rookie QB likely takes over.

I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
 
Say Watt said:
False.

Chances are the Texans will know what they have with Oz by the end of this season. That means they could absolutely still draft a QB high in next year's draft. That would put them 1 year behind, not the "2 wasted years" you keep going on and on about.

One other thing. You keep talking about patience being the winning formula. So explain to me how trading away a bunch of top draft picks fits into your narrative of being patient? It's the antithesis of patience when your team throws all their eggs in one basket hoping they strike gold with your Wentz/Goff infatuation.

Under our scenario, and the Texans as well, they have this year to see what they have with Oz. If they aren't happy, they STILL have all their top picks next year that could then be used on another QB. Oz would get paid one more year while the rookie QB sits and watches, Oz gets cut after year 2, and then rookie QB likely takes over.

I'm starting to think you're just a troll.
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He's not a troll. But he is bored and creating his own entertainment around here.
 
Texian said:
Beginning the experiment earlier with a lesser talent under the the guise of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The trade out, (3) high draft picks...
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To paraphrase Neo, "There is no bush." How often in NFL draft history has a team drafting from where the Texans are drafting move to the top of the draft? I'll help you out: Never.

It wasn't happening. Your trip to fantasy rookie QB island is over. Move on.
 
What happens if Brock Osweiler proves to everybody that he's special and elite? He becomes an All Pro, wins the league MVP award and leads the Houston Texans to a few Super Bowl wins.

Will Texian admit he's wrong at that time? Or does his favorite rookie quarterback (Carson Wentz) in this draft class, also have to struggle and fall flat on his face in the NFL? Becoming a big-time bust in the pros.

If the first thing happens that's good enough for me. I'm not really wishing any ill will towards any of the young quarterbacks coming out. Good luck to those kids.

I'm too focused on Brock Osweiler right now.
As we all should be. Who cares about anything else?
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Why are the Browns sniffing around RG3 ? For a backup or they don't like the big 2 ?
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To the best of my knowledge, they've got Austin Davis, Connor Shaw, and Josh McCown under contract at the moment. You have to expect them to draft one of the big 2.

Personally, I liked Connor Shaw coming out of college as a developmental guy. And McCown should be an OK choice for veteran leadership until their new QB can take over.

So, they may just be doing their due diligence or they might be looking for a splashy move to make their fans happy.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
To the best of my knowledge, they've got Austin Davis, Connor Shaw, and Josh McCown under contract at the moment. You have to expect them to draft one of the big 2.

Personally, I liked Connor Shaw coming out of college as a developmental guy. And McCown should be an OK choice for veteran leadership until their new QB can take over.

So, they may just be doing their due diligence or they might be looking for a splashy move to make their fans happy.
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Would a NDSU QB make a bigger splash than Joey Bosa ?
 
Lucky said:
To paraphrase Neo, "There is no bush." How often in NFL draft history has a team drafting from where the Texans are drafting move to the top of the draft? I'll help you out: Never.

It wasn't happening. Your trip to fantasy rookie QB island is over. Move on.
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I guess you're not familiar with the Falcons trade for Julio.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Why are the Browns sniffing around RG3 ? For a backup or they don't like the big 2 ?
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Just imagine if they were in position to draft BPA & not rush a pick for need. If they had signed a QB, RB, & OG with reasonable upside.

Joey Bosa, Jalen Ramsey, Miles Jack, Vernon Hargreaves.

Don't get me wrong, if a QB is at the top of my list, then a QB is at the top of my list. But if he's not, wouldn't it be nice?
 
JB said:
Do you expect either QB to be available at 6?
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No, he doesn't. And has said same on this forum.

You know what Texian's really afraid of? Admitting that an organization he has constantly lambasted has actually done something right. So he'd rather cling to a bizarre, convoluted draft trade that was never going to occur to keep McNair/Smith/O'Brien in his preferred status of ineptitude. And everyone here knows it.

Maybe even Texian.
 
JB said:
Do you expect either QB to be available at 6? Would you be willing to give up 5 draft picks to move up that far?
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I think there is a reasonable chance that Wentz or Goff will be available at #6. I would not hesitate to swap 1st RD picks with #4 Dallas in 2016 and include Texans #1 pick in 2017 along with Jadevon Clowney.
 
Lucky said:
No, he doesn't. And has said same on this forum.

You know what Texian's really afraid of? Admitting that an organization he has constantly lambasted has actually done something right. So he'd rather cling to a bizarre, convoluted draft trade that was never going to occur to keep McNair/Smith/O'Brien in his preferred status of ineptitude. And everyone here knows it.

Maybe even Texian.
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It will not occur now that Texans have signed Osweiller so you've a pretty safe bet there Hot Rod. However that doesn't mean it was the right decision. If I thought McNair made the right decision, I would say that.
 
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