JCTexan
Hall of Fame
The only thing I was trying to point out with his stat line was that he had negative plays. They could have all been drops or throw aways, I don't know. However, without them, you can't objectively assess his QB play.
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Brian Hoyer/Ryan Mallet ?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
The only thing I was trying to point out with his stat line was that he had negative plays. They could have all been drops or throw aways, I don't know. However, without them, you can't objectively assess his QB play.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Hahahahahaha you said objectively.
New to the board?
haha I've been a member since 2007. Slow learner I guess.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
haha I've been a member since 2007. Slow learner I guess.
I admire your optimism.
Perhaps you should just be like this....
I think it is the boards MO
I was not disagreeing with anything you said. My comments were in addition to yours.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Hoyer just became a reasonable possibility after his #1 supporter with the Browns was fired -- Mike Lombardi.
And I guess you could say this opens up Patriots a bit to trade Mallett with the option of acquiring Hoyer again to backup Brady... ?
All assuming the Browns draft or acquire another starting QB.
And I guess you could say this opens up Patriots a bit to trade Mallett with the option of acquiring Hoyer again to backup Brady... ?
All assuming the Browns draft or acquire another starting QB.
I was thinking if they traded Mallett that they'd bring Cassell back, guess they could do either
Why? Neither are the future of New England, I think they've made that pretty clear.
They'll draft a guy, see if they like him. If they do, they'll keep him. If they don't, they'll move on.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Hmmmmm
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
They haven't expressed a judgment on either one. You can't keep potential starting quality QBs around forever as backups without paying them an egregious amount which can't be justified with a cap so you get value for them and get another cheap backup.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Maybe... but I doubt the Texans would be interested in Hoyer. The Browns have 3 QBs under contract next year, Weeden, who is paid for in guarantees, Jason Campbell, who can be cut outright for 3.25m in savings, and Hoyer who is a cheap contract at 1.25m in 2014.
I think Campbell will be cut, they will draft a QB, and that QB will "compete" with Weeden and Hoyer in camp.
The Browns do have about 40-50m in cap space this offseason, so they could make some other moves in free agency to fill needs, and spend picks on trading up to #2 to get Johnny Football. Who knows, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they trade up for Derek Carr....
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
There's a little movement around Mallett, but nothing worth noting yet that I see...
Weslye Saunders ‏@Wes_Saunders88 Feb 7
Take this with a grain of salt...
Weslye Saunders ‏@Wes_Saunders88 Feb 7
Take this with a grain of salt...
http://www.latinopost.com/articles/...ouston-texans-new-england-patriots-roster.htm
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If the coaches believe he's a franchise qb a second round pick is nothing to them.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah they are valuable picks whose purpose is? - to acquire players. If you acquire a player with 1 then I fail to see the objection other than you believe the QBs who will be available at 2.1 are clearly superior. The fundamental reality for the Texans is by draft or trade a QB MUST be acquired with one of the 1st two picks. This FA class is a non-starter as an alternative.
In the post I was replying to, the poster mentioned that instead of going after Hoyer, he figured the Patriots would be more interested in bringing Cassel back.
I'm thinking like you... instead of paying either guy to stick around, they'll draft a cheap back up. That guy may or may not be the future starting QB for the Patriots. But Hoyer & Cassel definitely are not.
They may not have said as much (is that what you mean by not passing judgement), but they've clearly moved on.
From the article.
Interesting. The Patriots rated a 3rd round QB higher than four 1st round prospects.
Of course, that could just be Belichick-speak.
So.. you've got Rick Smith on one side of the table & Bill Belichick on the other......
I don't think this will end well for us.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think it's more of "Hey, if you want this guy, you better pony-up the picks!"
We have seen the Patriots and Eagles do this recently with Cassel and Kolb. They develop a mid-round pick into a decent talent, and then trade him away for a 2nd round pick and some throw-ins. There was even some talk a few offseasons ago of teams willing to give a 3rd for Mike Kafka. I think it's a great idea, especially if you have a coach with a good history of developing QBs.
TheIronDuke
All Pro
Why give up a high pick for Mallet, who is completely unproven, in the last year of his contract? Makes absolutely no sense at all to me when we can use a second of our own on a QB if we're not sold on Bridgewater or Manziel and have them under team control for awhile without a huge cap hit. Are we the only team who can't try to draft a freaking franchise QB in the NFL? Why are we only happy picking up other team's back-ups to start?
And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.
And if we trade for him and he's awesome, then what? We franchise him when we're in cap trouble? Alternately we can sign him after we trade for him but I doubt he'd want to do that without testing the market.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Look at the drafts when this is being contemplated. 2007 was JaMarcus Russell, Kolb, Beck, Stanton. Schaub was better than any of them.
There is no reason they can't do a new deal rather than running out his rookie contract and having to rely on the franchise tag. Hopefully it is a smartly structured deal if it happens. He's set to make $777k under his contract. Bump him to a contract without substantial dead money if he doesn't pan out - something like a $3 mil signing bonus, $2mil 2014, roster bonus 2015 and three more years on the contract.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
It would be the same type of deal that we made with Atlanta for Schaub. It simply won't happen if there is not a contract in place with Mallett before the trade is finished. 2.1 is not a lot to give up if you think Mallett is better than any of the QB's in this draft (which I'm not sure he is).
TheIronDuke
All Pro
Alright guys, I guess it's not as stupid as I thought. I just don't think this dude can move around very much and is dumb as a box of rocks but I will once again have to put my faith that BOB knows what he's doing. I still think Bridgewater or Manziel would be better but I know f all about it.
I don't care. As long as we get a good QB that can lead this team to a Super Bowl. I don't care if we draft him, trade for him, or coach up Keenum/Yates.
If O'Brien has spent a year or two with Mallet, watched him practice, watched him interact with teammates & coachs, even watched him play quite a bit if only in a preseason environment, you eliminate much of the uncertainty that would always be there with any rookie QB. And obviously it also gives a coach the opportunity to eliminate a prospect, which apparently is no longer an option for O'brien. On the other hand, use a 1.1 on a QB and your franchise is saddled with that player indefinitely no matter how bad he might turn out to be. So if O'Brien likes Mallet, going ahead with him makes total sense IMO.
99.9 % + of QBs who ever lived are back-ups to Tom Brady.
In 2006 I wanted to draft Vince Young. I would have been happy with Jay Cutler, but that would have been seen as a huge reach at 1-1.
In 2007, I'd have been happy with Brady Quin... but I didn't mind Schaub (who had a bit of a buzz about him from 2006) & Amobi (yup, I'm a homer).
In 2008, I didn't really care for any of the QBs. We didn't have a shot at Ryan... could have had Flacco. I haven't been a Flacco fan since he's been in the league, that Super Bowl run he had did impress me. Then there was 2013. We got Duane Brown in 2008. I'm ok with that. I don't believe Flacco would have won a Super Bowl in Houston with no Duane Brown.
In 2009, I didn't even think about QBs, but looking back, I'd have been happy with Stafford or Freeman. I think Kubiak could have won some games with Stafford/Freeman. That would have been nice. But we were married at the time. Cushing, our pick in 2009, won DRoTY twice that year.
2010, I'd have liked to taken a flyer on Colt McCoy. But the Browns took him in the third. We did get H-Town native Earl Mitchell though. None of the QBs from this class have done anything worth talking about.
2011, This was the year to get a QB. Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Collin Kaepernick. But there were a few duds in there too, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder. We did get Yates though. Mallet was also in this draft.
2012, even better than 2011. Andrew Luck, RG3, Russell Wilson, Foles, Cousins, Tannehill (kinda). Notable duds: Weeden
2013, more blah..... Geno Smith & Ej Manuel. Or Ej Manuel & Geno Smith..... probably really don't matter.
2014, supposedly better than 2013. Aaron Murray & Aj McCarron, two of the more prolific passers from the 2013 season are burried under the likes of Derek Carr, Taj Boyd, & Jimmy Garoppolo, & they aren't even the three "best" QBs in the draft.
Does sound odd that we're going to skip QB altogether in the deepest QB class in a long time.
In 2007, I'd have been happy with Brady Quin... but I didn't mind Schaub (who had a bit of a buzz about him from 2006) & Amobi (yup, I'm a homer).
In 2008, I didn't really care for any of the QBs. We didn't have a shot at Ryan... could have had Flacco. I haven't been a Flacco fan since he's been in the league, that Super Bowl run he had did impress me. Then there was 2013. We got Duane Brown in 2008. I'm ok with that. I don't believe Flacco would have won a Super Bowl in Houston with no Duane Brown.
In 2009, I didn't even think about QBs, but looking back, I'd have been happy with Stafford or Freeman. I think Kubiak could have won some games with Stafford/Freeman. That would have been nice. But we were married at the time. Cushing, our pick in 2009, won DRoTY twice that year.
2010, I'd have liked to taken a flyer on Colt McCoy. But the Browns took him in the third. We did get H-Town native Earl Mitchell though. None of the QBs from this class have done anything worth talking about.
2011, This was the year to get a QB. Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Collin Kaepernick. But there were a few duds in there too, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder. We did get Yates though. Mallet was also in this draft.
2012, even better than 2011. Andrew Luck, RG3, Russell Wilson, Foles, Cousins, Tannehill (kinda). Notable duds: Weeden
2013, more blah..... Geno Smith & Ej Manuel. Or Ej Manuel & Geno Smith..... probably really don't matter.
2014, supposedly better than 2013. Aaron Murray & Aj McCarron, two of the more prolific passers from the 2013 season are burried under the likes of Derek Carr, Taj Boyd, & Jimmy Garoppolo, & they aren't even the three "best" QBs in the draft.
Does sound odd that we're going to skip QB altogether in the deepest QB class in a long time.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think people are over-valuing Ryan Mallet's trade value. I don't think it would require 2-1 to get him. I think 3-1 would be enough, due to the deep QB class. Think about it from the Pats' standpoint. Whatever pick you give them, they are going to need to draft another backup QB, and this is the year to do it. The have 7 picks, and will likely spend one on a new backup QB, who will be heir apparent to Tom Brady, given the 4 year deal a rookie gets.
Now, if I'm the GM of the Pats, I'd say, let's find our next QB in this draft or next, because in 3-4 years, Brady will retire. Is Mallet the guy? Probably not, so if you can get 3-1 or 4-1 for him, do it. He's going to walk next season, and only give you a compensatory pick at best, and only if you don't sign some good free agents. Sell him while you can for at least 4-1, which is certainly better than the potential compensatory pick you get in return, and find a backup to start training. Maybe the Pats go QB in the 1st, and trade up to take a guy like Teddy or Bortles if they fall. Maybe they take a Murray, McCarron or Garapolo in the end of the 2nd. Who knows, but I know they have to be looking at QB very closely this year next.
If I'm the Pats, I'd take 3-1 for Mallet and not look back. 4-1 would be acceptable, but only on draft day, and only if no one else is biting. 2-1, absolutely, but only a fool would pay that much for him. If I'm the Texans, giving up 4-1 for Mallet would be fine, he's better than anything you will find at that point in this draft. 3-1 is a bit more difficult to say, but probably reasonable.
Now, if I'm the GM of the Pats, I'd say, let's find our next QB in this draft or next, because in 3-4 years, Brady will retire. Is Mallet the guy? Probably not, so if you can get 3-1 or 4-1 for him, do it. He's going to walk next season, and only give you a compensatory pick at best, and only if you don't sign some good free agents. Sell him while you can for at least 4-1, which is certainly better than the potential compensatory pick you get in return, and find a backup to start training. Maybe the Pats go QB in the 1st, and trade up to take a guy like Teddy or Bortles if they fall. Maybe they take a Murray, McCarron or Garapolo in the end of the 2nd. Who knows, but I know they have to be looking at QB very closely this year next.
If I'm the Pats, I'd take 3-1 for Mallet and not look back. 4-1 would be acceptable, but only on draft day, and only if no one else is biting. 2-1, absolutely, but only a fool would pay that much for him. If I'm the Texans, giving up 4-1 for Mallet would be fine, he's better than anything you will find at that point in this draft. 3-1 is a bit more difficult to say, but probably reasonable.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
To be applied appropriately. If the Redskins can't get more than a 3rd round pick for a tested Kirk Cousins -- which is what I've been reading is the real world value today -- then that's the high bar for me. I don't think Mallett is a franchise QB secretly hidden away on the Patriots bench anymore than Matt Cassel was. But he might be our best bet for a season or two draft value wise.
This is a deep draft in a lot of areas. A 3rd rounder this year might be greater value than a 2nd rounder last year. If the Patriots think Mallett is all that, then lets do a prove-it deal -- conditional 2015 pick(s) based on some performance standard.
I must add that imo we have a lot of personnel changes to make in starters and more in depth. I don't see this as the quick turnaround project Mr. McNair does. Hoping I'm wrong, but...