Texansballer74
The Marine
Aren’t we against players that want to get a raise?
I can’t keep up anymore with all these changes.
Just certain players like Whitney, Roby, soon to be Tunsil and possibly Watson.
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Brandin Cooks to the Texans
- Thread starter Goodwrench3
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Just certain players like Whitney, Roby, soon to be Tunsil and possibly Watson.
Which is why OB is going to draft 3 TEs this year.
Lol
You're answer is a 32 yo with issues? Wow! The dude from the Jags is looking for a big pay day.
Good name for it!
With all this “speed” on the outside nobody will expect that stellar first down run up the middle!
badboy
Hall of Fame
And we can afford him $19 m cap space now *same amount we rolled over from 2019; would be great to spend here and take him away from Jacksonville. If that happened it would soothe a lot of feelings over Clowney.
By trading Hopkins for David Johnson makes it obvious this is gonna be a run first offense.
Nothing's gonna change
Aren’t we against players that want to get a raise?
Only if they were drafted by Rick Smith.
Tunsil is going to get a raise. Cobb got a raise. That FA safety from Cleveland we signed, he got a raise. Not Hopkins, not Clowney, & if WFV don't figure out how to mind his hamstring, he won't either.
Tunsil and Watson are still in negotiations.
We only have $55 million in capspace next year.
How's this gonna work?
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
The cap will increase and some current players will be dropped. Some of the guaranteed contracts this year will be renegotiated to more cap friendly contracts with bonuses spread out if player performance merits keeping them.
Hopefully the virus doesn't affect the cap
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
In the case of a longer than anticipated shutdown, or a full cancellation, the NBA in their CBA has a clause giving them the right to enact “Force Majeure” [for you French illiterates....."Superior Force".........legally translated into "unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract"], which could involve anything from lower payments to changed pay schedules to a full opt -out of the CBA.
The new NFL CBA did not include such a clause [hard to believe].
I addressed the implications to the NBA and the NFL in the NFL section. Force Majeure
Texansballer74
The Marine
Someone like jj watt?
Also, Cunningham and Fuller are also free agents next year
Texansballer74
The Marine
Got a feeling they won’t be here after this season. Both players will be looking to strike it big. After possibly paying Tunsil and Watson mega contracts I highly doubt both of them getting paid here. Maybe O’Brien will find some suitors who will be willing to pay them. Lol
badboy
Hall of Fame
Curious that since the NFL does not know what the cap space is going to end up being how do you? Remember the television new contracts have not been.
SnakeEyes
Under NRG
That's a Smith move, and he would sign 3+ as FAs tooWhich is why OB is going to draft 3 TEs this year.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Tunsil is already on the books for $10m, so don't add $20m add $10m for him. Secondly, many players live off signing bonus year 1, say they get $35m signing bonus year 1, and $200k salary for year 1, team spreads hit out over 5 year deal and cap is $7.2m, while player has lots of cash flow ($35.2m). So there is money to make most of this happen. I do sense it will force choices like between Cunningham and Fuller. Our WR core is expensive, thus I do think we should draft a WR somewhere this year and work to renegotiate Cooks somewhere this season if he plays well (His GTD money is up so he should be interested)
bah007
Hall of Fame
I do not see a scenario where Fuller is on the team next season. He is too prone to injury to pay what he is going to ask for and OB’s commitment seems to be to Cobb and Cooks.
I could easily see Fuller, Stills, and Coutee gone, which puts our WR depth in a terrible state despite all the resources OB has recently thrown at it.
I could easily see Fuller, Stills, and Coutee gone, which puts our WR depth in a terrible state despite all the resources OB has recently thrown at it.
RGV82
Random guy
Cobb being here will not impact Fuller. This is Fuller’s make it or break it year. I think it’s too early to predict where he will be in 2021. If he can stay healthy all year, I think he will definitely be back in 2021. This report is spot on accurate:
The Texans' actions have spoken louder than words when it comes to Fuller, as trading DeAndre Hopkins would have been even less likely if Fuller's recovery was not going smoothly. Now the closest thing the Texans have to a No. 1 wideout, Fuller's field-stretching ability will be needed more than ever with Hopkins no longer there to command bracket coverage.
-ESPN
Killer Bee
Waterboy
If by some miracle Fuller stays healthy this year, I would think we'd seek to retain him and part ways with Stills. What I don't know is his market value with all the injuries.
It would be wise to draft a WR this year to fill the inevitable free agent hole next year.
It would be wise to draft a WR this year to fill the inevitable free agent hole next year.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I have real doubts that OB even considered Fuller when he traded Hopkins. He traded Hopkins because he wants to control the locker room and doesn't want a disgruntled player in there that might gain the attention of more ears than he does. He then immediately spent a fortune in draft capital to bring in a high-priced replacement. That doesn't exactly show a lot of confidence in what we have on the roster.
Cobb may play a different position than Fuller (slot vs. outside) but his money does have an impact on Fuller. Spotrac has Fuller's market value on a new contract at $13.1M. If we brought him back at that amount (unlikely, OB always overpays) then we would be paying our top three WRs about $37.4M. To put that in perspective, the Chiefs have the highest projected WR payroll in the league this season at $38.4M. And that is with 8 WRs currently on the roster, not 3.
I don't see how we can afford to have the most expensive WR corp in the entire league and still pay out new contracts to Tunsil and Watson, while also carrying the contracts we are currently under (David Johnson, Watt, Mercilus, McKinney, Roby, etc.). If Conley has a good year his option is $10M, I think.
The money just isn't there. We can't keep all three of those guys next season at those dollar amounts. Cobb was just signed so he will be here. Either Fuller is on his way out or Cooks will have to significantly restructure his deal to fit Fuller's new contract in. I guess that is possible but do you really trust OB in that negotiation?
The Texans are looking at a very bleak long-term future. We will see some really good players leave here soon (either walking or we ship their contracts out) because we can't afford them. And we can't replace them with young, cheap contracts because we have no draft picks. Our only option is to sign JAGS in free agency or continue kicking the can down the road by using our future draft capital in trades to address positions of need opened up by our inability to manage our own roster.
Texansballer74
The Marine
People needs to stop painting Hopkins as disgruntle.
A 2nd rd pick isn't a fortune in draft capital.
Cooks will also replace WFV's speed if WFV gets hurt again and the offense wont be as predictable as in the past when WFV gets hurt.
They can get out from under DJ's contract after this yr and you can put the 10 mil Tunsil makes and the 10 mil DJ makes and there's your 20 mil per yr.
Things aren't as bad as they seem cap wise right now. The real question is DW4 going to play well enough to justify the 35-40 mil per yr that it looks like Cal/BOB's going to give him next offseason. Plus the cap is going up with the new CBA if the Covid-19 doesn't screw that up. If this happens I think athletes in all sports are going to be in for a rude awakening.
They've got draft picks this yr except for their 1st rd pick. (I consider Tunsil to be their 1st rd pick)
Next yrs draft what you posted is true. But if 2 draft picks are going to kill the franchise for yrs to come then this franchise has bigger issues. I look at the 2018 draft like I do the 2021 draft and that didn't kill the franchise. Neither will the 2021 draft.
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How would you like him to be painted?
I would paint him as looking out for his/Babies Momma's self interests. I cant blame him for this stance but you cant have a team full of those kinds of guys and be a successful franchise.
It seems the one who was disgruntled was OB.
bah007
Hall of Fame
It doesn't matter if he was or not. All that matters is whether OB thought he was or would become so. Reading between the lines on OB's comments leads me to believe that he felt Hopkins would become a problem if he didn't get a new contract, so he got rid of him before he became a locker room problem.
Again, it does not matter if this is the truth. If you are trying to follow the logic in our moves all that matters is what OB believes.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
This is supposed? to be a deep class for receivers.
From your list: Edwards, Gandy Golden, J Prosche, Any worth a flyer @ #111. Or do other needs trump them.
This is assuming of course the position isn't addressed sooner. Aiyuk, Hamler or possibly Claypool?
Texansballer74
The Marine
I’m just saying it’s wrong to paint that type of a picture when you knew how Hopkins got down. He was a great professional on and off the field.
I really don’t give two bleeps about what Obrien believes. Dude is power hungry and seems to do whatever it takes for that power. And if he thought Hopkins was going to be a problem, he’s way off base then.
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bah007
Hall of Fame
For this season the offense won't be as predictable. Until we have to rebuild the entire thing again next year because we have no long-term plan.
They can get out of DJ's contract next year. They can also get out of Duke's contract whenever they want. We could also walk away from Cooks after this season. But we will do none of those things. Because getting out of a contract that OB traded for would essentially be him admitting that he made a mistake in acquiring it, which we know from his past he cannot will himself to do.
Championship franchises are built through the draft under the guidance of some underlying long-term plan. Young, cheap contracts are a valuable asset. That is what draft picks acquire. This franchise under the direction of OB has shown a disdain for young, cheap contracts. They much prefer to use their draft capital to acquire older, more expensive players. When you build a roster that way you eventually run out of money, which means you will have to deplete your roster of talent to get back under the cap. That is where we are heading.
And OB's short tenure has already set the pattern. There is no plan. He will continue to trade draft picks for contracts on a year-to-year basis. So while a 2nd round pick for this franchise may as well be a gold mine.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Why are you being low down and dirty when it comes to one of the Texans all time great players. This is the reason why I really don’t respond to you anymore. That man personal life is no concern to you. And how would you know how to run a successful franchise. The Cowboys back in the day had drug dealers and etc and was one of the elite franchises in the NFL.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'm not painting any picture about Hopkins. Based on what I know about him, I would want him in my locker room. I think he is a great role model for young players.
But you should care what OB believes if you care about this franchise. He is way off base, but he is the one calling the shots. We are at the mercy of his decision making.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I don't care how many girlfriends he has or babies, and I am a big Nuk proponent (they should not be trolling the complex a lot though). I do care if the lead WR is not practicing, which helps younger guys with their development, and gets the chemistry down with the QB and other WR's. I had not heard Nuk missed so much practice, because game day he was ready and always balled. What I don't know nor does anyone else here know what it meant to the rest of the offense. We all know there were bad routes run, what we don't know was how much was Nuk, how much was the other guys, and would it have been corrected in practice. So to pay guys elite, I look for on the field and the off the field. If Easterby knows this quote, it may have come up here, "Success isn't just about what you accomplish in your life; it's about what you inspire others to do" I also believe Nuk was good in the community. What I don't see is always how so many here miss looking for both sides of an argument. We don't have a good GM, but there are sometimes subtle things that are not appreciated. A lot like raising the game on ST, noone is thinking about that much on the board, BOB finally got the right coach and focus, and it helps 1/3 of the team.
bah007
Hall of Fame
This is supposed? to be a deep class for receivers.
From your list: Edwards, Gandy Golden, J Prosche, Any worth a flyer @ #111. Or do other needs trump them.
This is assuming of course the position isn't addressed sooner. Aiyuk, Hamler or possibly Claypool?
We have great depth at WR for this season so I doubt OB sees the hole. We have four good players at WR so it will not be a problem for us this season. The problem will show up next season when all we have left at the position is Cobbs and Cooks and everyone else is gone.
OB is a short-term decision maker so I would not expect us to take a WR early. OB has also shown a very clear desire in what he looks for at the position, which limits our draft board to those specific types of players.
And because we have depleted ourselves of draft picks, what little we have left has to be spent on the numerous other holes on this roster that have not been addressed. A fifth WR pales in comparison to our needs on the DL, OLB, and in the secondary.
I think Reagor would fit OB's type perfectly if he is there at #40. But he would be our fifth WR this year unless we traded Fuller or Stills. But he would probably be our #1 or #2 next season.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I thought you were the one around here that was always championing for talent over character? Have you changed that stance?
I haven't been around recently but I remember you always being the first one to trumpet for any and all troublemakers to come here as long as they could play ball?
For new contracts sometimes teams will increase that first year salary. Not sure how Watson and Tunsil will view not getting a big bump next year.
So we'll basically have to be backloading these contracts to make it all fit. We also need to leave some money for draft picks and free agency needs (in case of injury, etc).
banned1976
sleeper mode
I put my “family” (I believe that’s the universal term society uses in these more progressive days) above loyalty of my employer. That’s me, maybe it’s a generational dynamic. I just know, because I’ve seen it, BoB has shown no more loyalty to brands (employers) than Hopkins. College coaches routinely bail on the kids they recruited.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Not sure you get me, players always make out the first year due to GTD money, just giving examples that Tunsil is only $10m bump AND you can play cap games in the first year of a deal if you wish as the player already has their money. Anyway, let's see who gets signed and how they structure. We already have a issue brewing because BOB is signing vets at higher then rookies and if he pushes money out, we become the Rams and Jags who both went for it and are now rebuilding
How did you get that I was talking bad about Nuk in that post?
I even said in that post I didn't blame him for looking out for himself.
He wasn't disgruntled. He just wanted Nuk gone after his constantly wanting to renegotiate his contract/blow up at practice etc....
Cant say I blame him.
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
I totally agree on Fuller, as much as he seems to affect the offense in a good way I wouldn't pay him a high dollar contract with the expectation that he plays 11 to 14 games a year. If it weren't for the fact that he is now the most tenured WR on the roster, I'd send him to GB for their 2.62
banned1976
sleeper mode
Your memory is correct. He has been championing for Suh this offseason. But Hopkins had his girlfriends at some practices (allegedly - maybe O’Brien was jealous) and he requested a raise. And buddy...that’s a bridge too far.
Quoted for truth
That's why I said I dont blame Nuk for his stance. Somehow TB took this as a shot at Nuk. I'm still trying to figure this out. SMH.
Cooks will probably be brought back on a cheaper deal with more guaranteed $$$$. I dont believe the Stills trade rumors and think he will be brought back next yr. They probably will draft a guy late this yr to step into the WR4 role in 2021 and also draft another WR late next yr.
Agreed about the franchise needing cheap labor. My thoughts are that franchises are built through a combination of draft picks 60% trades 15% FA 25%. Even though the Texans dont really play in FA.
The Texans 1st/2nd rd picks this yr are Tunsil/Cooks. The extra 2nd moving up 17 spots/DJ/2022 4th is the Nuk trade. Hopefully they land a differencemaker on defense and DJ stays healthy. Do you think not having 1st/2nd rd picks in 2021 is going to destroy the franchise? I dont, why? because it didn't destroy the franchise in 2018.
I believe in drafting talented but troubled guys in rds 4-7. (Hill/Kelce etc...) I'm also good with bringing in talented but troubled guys on the cheap. (Aldon Smith types) so if you lose you haven't really lost anything.
I changed my stance on guys like AB because you cant pay them big $$$$ and have them flake out on you. Now a guy who's productive but aloof like Suh, I would have on my team anytime on a 1-2 yr deal with the guaranteed $$$$ up front so if he flakes out it really doesn't cost you.
Yeah but what is his 40 time? Texans won’t look at him because he had a run in with some money changers when he was younger, so that is on his record. I mean I think he is a high character guy but will O’Brien?
JK, hopefully I’m not blaspheming by asking that.
There's a huge difference in a guy that wants to renegotiate every yr and wants 5 yrs 100 mil with 50-60 being guaranteed (Nuk) and a guy getting 1 yr 8 mil. (Suh)
Are you in the lockeroom how do you know he's way off base? Or is this just an opinion?