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Both Carr and Young

Texansbacker

Texansbacker

Waterboy
From reading the coverage from the UT Pro Day with QB Vince Young performing extremely well, I think the value of the Texans pick went up significantly, and should definitely keep the door open to trade proposals.

It got me thinking however, if a blockbuster deal is not to be had, then would it not be wise to pick-up Young and keep Carr too? Young will need some time to learn the system as all rookies must and also Carr has an opportunity to prove himself a stud during the 2006 season.

Young would add value and also unpredictability to the Texans offense, ala Slash from Pittsburg........but hopefully that would be the only comparison of Vince Young to Kordell Stewart.

You would also have a solid backup should Sage Rosenfels not be the answer after a Carr injury. Or perhas Carr has taken too many shots (doubt it, but it is a factor) and plays with happy feet.

Reggie Bush will be an exciting player, no doubt, but you win and lose with your quarterback. I am willing to take my chances with Dominick Davis et al as Kubiak was able to work wonders with most any back.

Betting the house on Carr, with only Sage Rosenfels and Dave Ragone available to lead us to victory, should he fall or falter, seems more foolhardy than selecting a hometown fella. A guy with all the size, speed and skills you look for in a QB, along with being a proven winner, who plays at another level when on the big stage. It doesn't get any bigger than the NFL.

The competition at QB would be intense and, since I believe they are both high character guys, it would be good for everyone on the team.

In the process, Carr will undoubtably play much better, with an improved line, and very well could become the quarterback everyone said and wants him to become. That would be a good bet.

Sometimes it is also good to backup your bet, unless you are holding a pair of Mannings.

Especially when a situation (hometown: Houston, college: Texas) and a talent like Vince Young come to town.
 
Texansbacker said:
From reading the coverage from the UT Pro Day with QB Vince Young performing extremely
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I understand there were a few scouts who were disappointed with his showing.
 
as much as I would like for us to have young I think we would have way too much money invested at the qb position. I think the only way we get young now is trade down and he's still available or work package to trade carr and get young on draft day.
 
with the way that Washington annually spend money I find it hard to believe that we couldn't find a way to financially have both.

and Texansbacker, I am totally in agreement. I would love to draft Young, let him learn for a year, or two even if Carr's potential finds its way to the playing field surface as promised for the last 4 full season's.

We would have our future QB and don't have to commit the unpardonable sin of drafting and playing a rookie his first year and 'ruining' him, like we did poor poor Carr. :rolleyes:
 
If Young wasn't from Houston and didn't play at UT would anyone here want him over Bush? No. Leinhart's the most pro-ready QB in the draft and I've yet to see the 'Draft Matt' movement spring up in here.

Bush provides an impact today. Bush fits the offense. The coach built strong offenses in Denver based on a strong running game. The hometown boy sentiment is nice and all, but at some point reality should set in. Maybe on April 29th?
 
el toro said:
If Young wasn't from Houston and didn't play at UT would anyone here want him over Bush? No. Leinhart's the most pro-ready QB in the draft and I've yet to see the 'Draft Matt' movement spring up in here.
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That is the truth VY supporters don't want to admit. Some people have him ranked third at his position and almost everybody (95%) have him ranked behind Matt L.
 
sprtsfanatic said:
as much as I would like for us to have young I think we would have way too much money invested at the qb position. I think the only way we get young now is trade down and he's still available or work package to trade carr and get young on draft day.
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I wonder how much Indy has invested in a QB.....

LoneStarState said:
VY brings nothing to the team for at least 3 years. Sorry...
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We've already waited four years on Carr, Kubes expects two more.... I think the fans will be willing to wait one extra year for their pick
 
Yeah, we've waited 4 years for a competent offense. Now we have one of the top offensive coaches in the game as our HC. !@#$ waiting.
 
el toro said:
If Young wasn't from Houston and didn't play at UT would anyone here want him over Bush? No. Leinhart's the most pro-ready QB in the draft and I've yet to see the 'Draft Matt' movement spring up in here.

Bush provides an impact today. Bush fits the offense. The coach built strong offenses in Denver based on a strong running game. The hometown boy sentiment is nice and all, but at some point reality should set in. Maybe on April 29th?
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The big story out of Denver, is their running game....... for what, ten years now?? they word is you can put anyone in Denver, and they'll make him a probowl runner. 1600 yards.. So why is everyone talking about Kubiak's impressive history with resurrecting QBs?? Griese?? I hope not.

Bush doesn't fit the offense.. that's the point. Denver never runs two backs..... Denver never move Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Clinton Portis, Terrell Davis, Ruben Droans, Olandis Gary, or Ron DAyne out as wide reciever..... nobody does..... you have to make a spot for Reggie.

When have we ever........ ever, ever, ever....... ask for a hometown kid?? Their are plenty of them out their.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wonder how much Indy has invested in a QB.....



We've already waited four years on Carr, Kubes expects two more.... I think the fans will be willing to wait one extra year for their pick
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on the indy thing--they aren't looking to invest another 7-8 million annually in another QB. somewhat of a flawed argument.

on the second point, why don't you go take a poll and see who the people's (that includes people who don't hang out on this MB) choice is.
 
Hulk75 said:
This is why we have a owner a coaching staff and GM who descides these things for us.

If kubes said he is here to make Carr one of the best and he thinks he can be, why would anyone have a problem with that?

Not being a butt head but Holy Crap you would think Carr is the worst QB that ever touched a football the way everyone talks about him.
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I'd like to see that link. Kubes says he'll do everything he can to make Carr successful...
 
el toro said:
Yeah, we've waited 4 years for a competent offense. Now we have one of the top offensive coaches in the game as our HC. !@#$ waiting.
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But we know Gaffney didn't fit, Milford doesn't belong on our starting line, McKinney can't play Center........ the poor offense only affects our ability to assess the play of the QB?? :ok:

dirty steve said:
on the indy thing--they aren't looking to invest another 7-8 million annually in another QB. somewhat of a flawed argument.

on the second point, why don't you go take a poll and see who the people's (that includes people who don't hang out on this MB) choice is.
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I think the chronicle did.... I'm pretty sure it was Vince.
 
They've managed to win a few games with that run game. Davis isn't exactly a sure thing health wise and Bush isn't relegated solely to lining up in the backfield.
 
thunderkyss said:
Bush doesn't fit the offense.. that's the point. Denver never runs two backs..... Denver never move Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Clinton Portis, Terrell Davis, Ruben Droans, Olandis Gary, or Ron DAyne out as wide reciever..... nobody does..... you have to make a spot for Reggie.
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However, Denver does utilize multiple backs... and often. It keeps them fresh, which is a concern with DD. Everyone questions Reggie's stamina because he never had the typical 30 carry game load. But when Lendale in college took the handoffs, Reggie was often lined up in teh flanker spot and would downfield block. So the guy has played reps on the field.

I don't understand the philosophy of not wanting the best QB in the draft if someone wants a QB. Assuming most people would want a Carson Palmer type QB (minus the whole 'I no longer have ligaments in my knee' thing), why not take Leinart? He is cut from the same cloth. There is much less risk.
 
kcwilson said:
I don't understand the philosophy of not wanting the best QB in the draft if someone wants a QB. Assuming most people would want a Carson Palmer type QB (minus the whole 'I no longer have ligaments in my knee' thing), why not take Leinart? He is cut from the same cloth. There is much less risk.
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nice
 
Instead of allowing the new coaching staff to put together a decent O-line and build up Carr's confidence you put a guy behind him that every Tom and Dick in town wants to start. No surer way to ensure that Carr bombs and that Young is rushed before he's ready (if ever).

Take Leinhart if you want a new QB.
 
No, No, and No. Not matt leinart. Matt leinart is no better than david carr. It has been said repeatedly on this board, but all of you people seem to forget, the sucess of a player in the nfl depends in LARGE PART on the system you put him in. Matt leinart without an offensive line is road kill. Vince young buys time with his legs, and if you give him a kubiak rushing game, and the freedom to play like vince young, he could enjoy great sucess here. Matt leinart may be the most "pro ready prospect", but put him in houston, and 100 sacks later he is david carr junior.
 
LoneStarState said:
VY brings nothing to the team for at least 3 years. Sorry...
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SORRY INDEED! .....but we appreciate your apology nevertheless......

1. RESPECT
2. CHARACTER
3. STRENGTH

VINCE YOUNG will immediately bring these attributes and more...... the moment his name is announced upon the podium by Paul Tagliabue as the HOUSTON TEXANS #1 pick in the 2006 draft.

You sound as though you have had your fill of that "cardinal and mustard"......relax, VY IS COMING HOME!
MONARCH
 
swtbound07 said:
No, No, and No. Not matt leinart. Matt leinart is no better than david carr. It has been said repeatedly on this board, but all of you people seem to forget, the sucess of a player in the nfl depends in LARGE PART on the system you put him in. Matt leinart without an offensive line is road kill. Vince young buys time with his legs, and if you give him a kubiak rushing game, and the freedom to play like vince young, he could enjoy great sucess here. Matt leinart may be the most "pro ready prospect", but put him in houston, and 100 sacks later he is david carr junior.
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Not really. You have a coaching staff who actually has a clue when it comes to building a line and an above average NFL offense.

Vince Young buys time when he's lined up in the shotgun against NCAA defenses.
 
thunderkyss said:
The big story out of Denver, is their running game....... for what, ten years now?? they word is you can put anyone in Denver, and they'll make him a probowl runner. 1600 yards.. So why is everyone talking about Kubiak's impressive history with resurrecting QBs?? Griese?? I hope not.

Bush doesn't fit the offense.. that's the point. Denver never runs two backs..... Denver never move Mike Anderson, Tatum Bell, Clinton Portis, Terrell Davis, Ruben Droans, Olandis Gary, or Ron DAyne out as wide reciever..... nobody does..... you have to make a spot for Reggie.

When have we ever........ ever, ever, ever....... ask for a hometown kid?? Their are plenty of them out their.
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WHAT?? Both Andersson and Tatum Bell got major time, Andersson went over 1000 and Bell was 70 yards short of 1000. If any coach would know how to use both Bush and DD, it would be Kubes. You are right about the WR thing though, they almost never throw to the RB's in Denver.
 
kcwilson said:
However, Denver does utilize multiple backs... and often. It keeps them fresh, which is a concern with DD. Everyone questions Reggie's stamina because he never had the typical 30 carry game load. But when Lendale in college took the handoffs, Reggie was often lined up in teh flanker spot and would downfield block. So the guy has played reps on the field.

I don't understand the philosophy of not wanting the best QB in the draft if someone wants a QB. Assuming most people would want a Carson Palmer type QB (minus the whole 'I no longer have ligaments in my knee' thing), why not take Leinart? He is cut from the same cloth. There is much less risk.
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Looks an awful lot like that cloth used on David Carr.

I'm not a draft guy, so I don't follow it like most people do..... I don't know who is the best. I've watched Young for a year, & I want him.

I wanted Harrington in '02, everyone said Carr was better......... I went with it...... didn't really turn out the way I expected.

Young(and Harrington) brings something to the game, that will help any team learning how to play, learning how to win. Young and Harrington allows you OL to learn how to play OL....... with Matt, and David, you better have your line together and clicking first.....

kcwilson said:
However, Denver does utilize multiple backs... and often. It keeps them fresh, which is a concern with DD. Everyone questions Reggie's stamina because he never had the typical 30 carry game load. But when Lendale in college took the handoffs, Reggie was often lined up in teh flanker spot and would downfield block. So the guy has played reps on the field.

I don't understand the philosophy of not wanting the best QB in the draft if someone wants a QB. Assuming most people would want a Carson Palmer type QB (minus the whole 'I no longer have ligaments in my knee' thing), why not take Leinart? He is cut from the same cloth. There is much less risk.
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Go back, and look at the top 5 runners from 2005, 2004, 2003.. I garuntee you'll find that each one of them missed games thier first 3 years.... 2005, I know the top 5 missed more than DD their first 3 years in the NFL..... Cadillac.... he missed a few games.... Julius Jones, hasn't played a full year yet. Duece?? 1 full season, out of 5.... I'll go out on a limb....... Reggie won't play 16 games in 2006.
 
swtbound07 said:
No, No, and No. Not matt leinart. Matt leinart is no better than david carr. It has been said repeatedly on this board, but all of you people seem to forget, the sucess of a player in the nfl depends in LARGE PART on the system you put him in. Matt leinart without an offensive line is road kill. Vince young buys time with his legs, and if you give him a kubiak rushing game, and the freedom to play like vince young, he could enjoy great sucess here. Matt leinart may be the most "pro ready prospect", but put him in houston, and 100 sacks later he is david carr junior.
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Your whole message is exactly why we should draft D'Brick! How can you say that your offensive line is so bad that the consensus best QB in the draft would be terrible in your system without having the next sentence you utter be something to the point of "which is why we must do everything possible to improve the line."?????

By the way, how is Mike Vick's mobillity helping him evade pass-rushers? Somthing to the tune of 50 sacks a season...there are no shortcuts to pass protection, you must address the line, not make the QB faster.
 
run-david-run said:
WHAT?? Both Andersson and Tatum Bell got major time, Andersson went over 1000 and Bell was 70 yards short of 1000. If any coach would know how to use both Bush and DD, it would be Kubes. You are right about the WR thing though, they almost never throw to the RB's in Denver.
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I meant two back sets..... many people want to use Bush & DD in a two back set, and then motion Reggie out as a WR.....
 
thunderkyss said:
Looks an awful lot like that cloth used on David Carr.

I'm not a draft guy, so I don't follow it like most people do..... I don't know who is the best. I've watched Young for a year, & I want him.

I wanted Harrington in '02, everyone said Carr was better......... I went with it...... didn't really turn out the way I expected.

Young(and Harrington) brings something to the game, that will help any team learning how to play, learning how to win. Young and Harrington allows you OL to learn how to play OL....... with Matt, and David, you better have your line together and clicking first.....



Go back, and look at the top 5 runners from 2005, 2004, 2003.. I garuntee you'll find that each one of them missed games thier first 3 years.... 2005, I know the top 5 missed more than DD their first 3 years in the NFL..... Cadillac.... he missed a few games.... Julius Jones, hasn't played a full year yet. Duece?? 1 full season, out of 5.... I'll go out on a limb....... Reggie won't play 16 games in 2006.
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Harrington? Really? Someone should probably tell the Lions, because they don't seem to think so! I really dont know what else to say...wow!:brickwall
 
thunderkyss said:
I meant two back sets..... many people want to use Bush & DD in a two back set, and then motion Reggie out as a WR.....
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ok, that makes some more sense. However, thier FB does have something like 4 TD receptions, so Kubes knows how to make use of the fullback. Also, we will not be restricted to everything Denver did, or so I hope. Obviously, we must try to use our players to their full potential, with Reggie Bush obviously we should try to create miss matches...lets hope Kubes agrees.
 
Every time Bush is in the backfield he is a threat to go in motion and line up in the slot. With Davis there in the backfield opposing defenses will have to respect the run when that happens. AJ wide left, maybe Walter wide right. Putzier also in the mix. Forget about what could be 4 years from now. Win now.
 
run-david-run said:
Your whole message is exactly why we should draft D'Brick! How can you say that your offensive line is so bad that the consensus best QB in the draft would be terrible in your system without having the next sentence you utter be something to the point of "which is why we must do everything possible to improve the line."?????

By the way, how is Mike Vick's mobillity helping him evade pass-rushers? Somthing to the tune of 50 sacks a season...there are no shortcuts to pass protection, you must address the line, not make the QB faster.
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AMEN BROTHER!
 
run-david-run said:
Your whole message is exactly why we should draft D'Brick! How can you say that your offensive line is so bad that the consensus best QB in the draft would be terrible in your system without having the next sentence you utter be something to the point of "which is why we must do everything possible to improve the line."?????

By the way, how is Mike Vick's mobillity helping him evade pass-rushers? Somthing to the tune of 50 sacks a season...there are no shortcuts to pass protection, you must address the line, not make the QB faster.
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David Carr won't win us any games.
 
A successful running game will not have too much of a drop off, if Kubiak maintains his past history, should we draft Bush and he do well, then abruptly he gets injured, and is replaced by Dominick Davis who also does good. That is all provided Bush wins the starting job and is not relegated to a third down or special situation back.

On the other hand, would there be a drop off at quarterback if Carr goes down and his backup is Rosenfels?

Perhaps not, but liekly so. The value of an exceptional QB, even as valued as they be, are yet still undervalued IMO. Think about the Super Bowl winners and most often they are led by a top quarterback. Not that you can't win without a top gun, it just makes your odds of doing so a whole lot worse.

Training camp would be exciting and interesting (it will be that anyway!) to see two number one picks competing with one antoher to win the QB job. It should only serve to make each player and the team better. As opposed to hoping for the best and if it doesn't work we can try and find a solution the next year. Worse case scenario after drafting Young is, at the end of next season we have a #1 draft pick to trade, having lost nothing, and gained perspective at the most important position on the team.
 
el toro said:
Every time Bush is in the backfield he is a threat to go in motion and line up in the slot. With Davis there in the backfield opposing defenses will have to respect the run when that happens. AJ wide left, maybe Walter wide right. Putzier also in the mix. Forget about what could be 4 years from now. Win now.
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Teams will have to respect the run when Dominick Davis is in there by himself as he has proven when healthy (a big IF I know but Bush doesn't look real durable)....and that was with little to no passing game. And we will still have the rest of the supporting cast. Heck, throw Vince Young out at WR to mix it up and you can bet the defense will respect him.
 
el toro said:
If Young wasn't from Houston and didn't play at UT would anyone here want him over Bush? No. Leinhart's the most pro-ready QB in the draft and I've yet to see the 'Draft Matt' movement spring up in here.

Bush provides an impact today. Bush fits the offense. The coach built strong offenses in Denver based on a strong running game. The hometown boy sentiment is nice and all, but at some point reality should set in. Maybe on April 29th?
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You know what? Vince is from Houston. I don't think it is wrong for any one not to like him based upon this fact. Here's my point. You think we would have all these "true Texans fans" (from California) if Carr wasn't here? Or perhaps the fact of the poster boys for the Heisman went to USC, which is in California? You see, we all have an agenda (hidden or not). My pulling for VY beacuse he is a great player who has all the ability to be a gamebreaker in the NFL. And yes, I happen to be pulling for him cause he is a Houstonian like myself. And i'm not about to make any excuses for that. I've seen Boselli's fans come and go (I forgot that dude's name that was Boselli's brother in law). I guess their faithfulness to the Texans went by the way side along with Boselli. Just like most of these posters in here when Carr exits stage left. Me? I'll be here. Despite it (and because) all. I see this city as a great place. It ticks me off to see people walking around here with other teams jerseys when I go to Texan, Astro, and Rocket games. So if you think about it, there are a bunch of people that root for a particular player (ie, Carr, Bush, Young, Leinart). That's life.
 
Texansbacker said:
Teams will have to respect the run when Dominick Davis is in there by himself as he has proven when healthy (a big IF I know but Bush doesn't look real durable)....and that was with little to no passing game. And we will still have the rest of the supporting cast. Heck, throw Vince Young out at WR to mix it up and you can bet the defense will respect him.
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Then you have a guy at a spot he doesn't want to be and one he is learning. How does a team D up Davis + Bush? Especially with 2 decent wideouts and a capable TE?
 
el toro said:
Then you have a guy at a spot he doesn't want to be and one he is learning. How does a team D up Davis + Bush? Especially with 2 decent wideouts and a capable TE?
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Ask the Pats how did they stop "The Greatest Show on Turf"?

Ask the Steelers how did they stop Manning and the Colts?
 
Kbourda,
AMEN to you brother....you are right and I am a Proud Native of this city and I want VY because he is a great player and a Native son...as well.

And you did bring up a great question...if DC didnt play for Houston would all these Cali guys be here? ...interesting...:rolleyes:

and to the original poster.. great post and I actually see your point.. what do we have to lose...if we take VY and make DC compete for the job instead of it being handed to him and if we dont win this year we might end up with the #2 or # 3 pick next year what do we lose...

Then if DC does perfom like some people say he does then we get a good pick for him next year when we trade him and let VY play...because VY will not be ready by next year...Interesting thoughts...never thought of it like that...:ok:
 
run-david-run said:
Your whole message is exactly why we should draft D'Brick! How can you say that your offensive line is so bad that the consensus best QB in the draft would be terrible in your system without having the next sentence you utter be something to the point of "which is why we must do everything possible to improve the line."?????

By the way, how is Mike Vick's mobillity helping him evade pass-rushers? Somthing to the tune of 50 sacks a season...there are no shortcuts to pass protection, you must address the line, not make the QB faster.
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Not that i necessarily disagree with you, but i wasnt speaking on the draft as a whole. I was answering the folks who keep bringing up matt leinart whenever someone speaks onto vince young. For us, vince would be the better pick. And a big one fingered salute to whomever gave me negative rep on the last post.....unnecessary
 
who are all these "Cali guys" yall keep referring too?

In the whole time I've been here I've only seen a handful of Fresno fans.

Again a franchise doesn't take a player simply because he's a hometown guy especially when he isn't even the best prospect at his position and your head coach has given all support to your current QB, who by the way you extended three years.

We aren't taking Young. It would be a great story if it was possible, but its not.
 
Carr Bomb said:
who are all these "Cali guys" yall keep referring too?

In the whole time I've been here I've only seen a handful of Fresno fans.

Again a franchise doesn't take a player simply because he's a hometown guy especially when he isn't even the best prospect at his position and your head coach has given all support to your current QB, who by the way you extended three years.

We aren't taking Young. It would be a great story if it was possible, but its not.
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Believe me, the "Cali guys" know who they are.

I know we are not taking Young. But do I have to like it? Hell no.

I'm not saying the Texans as an organization is supposed to draft Vince because he's the hometown guy. I'm saying that he has just as much talent (maybe even more) as Bush and Leinart. And for anyone to say he doesn't is kidding themselves. And I like the fact that he is a player that I have watched since his high school days here in Houston. There's nothing wrong with that. Look, if he had Barrick Nealy's talent (former UH QB) that would be something different putting him up there with Bush and Leinart to go #1.

But the thing that bothers me the most is that the organization consistently makes a point to mention a player's Texas ties. As if it is important to them. It just doesn't look consistent to me. That's all i'm saying.
 
kbourda said:
Believe me, the "Cali guys" know who they are.

I know we are not taking Young. But do I have to like it? Hell no.

I'm not saying the Texans as an organization is supposed to draft Vince because he's the hometown guy. I'm saying that he has just as much talent (maybe even more) as Bush and Leinart. And for anyone to say he doesn't is kidding themselves. And I like the fact that he is a player that I have watched since his high school days here in Houston. There's nothing wrong with that. Look, if he had Barrick Nealy's talent (former UH QB) that would be something different putting him up there with Bush and Leinart to go #1.

But the thing that bothers me the most is that the organization consistently makes a point to mention a player's Texas ties. As if it is important to them. It just doesn't look consistent to me. That's all i'm saying.
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I understand, I would love for Vince to play for this team, if the right circumstances presented themselves, but they didn't. It just doesn't make sense right now, especially with the moves we made during the offseason.
 
El Amigo Invisible said:
What about DD? Why do we have to draft Bush if we have DD? Why not take Mario?
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I wouldn't mind having Mario at all. Basically at this point I'm just sitting back and trying to enjoy the show. I just want this team to improve and want them to pick the right player thats going to make that happen NOW. I don't pretend to act like I know who they are going to take, I just know most likely its not going to be a QB

Don't let my sig. fool you, I just thought that J. Kimmel bit was funny as hell.
 
There is room for Bush and Davis together, especially with Bush's versatility. Young is and only is a QB. There's also the matter of Davis' durability.
 
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