Bob McNair's Thoughts...

[thunderkyss]

Change owner to gm and you hit the trifecta. McNair is just excrutiatingly patient. Its becoming a fault instead of an asset. He is also as others have said "learning on the job". I doubt he learned this slow in business. I can't hate him but it is fairly aggrivating at times.

I am as disappointed with our exit as anyone. However, I don't know that McNair is learning slowly, or if his patience is excruciating. He fired Capers after 4 years, I don't know if that was too long, actually I'd have been fine if he'd have dumped Casserly & kept Capers.

Either way, four years seems about right.

4 years later, the organization was completely overhauled & we had our first winning season.

• Should have been in the play offs
  
  
  I understand everyone thinks we've underachieved. Actually, everyone believes we've consistently under achieved. I wonder if we've just overestimated our team. We were who we were & the best they could do was below our expectations.​
• could have won sooner
  
  
  I think we could have won sooner. Maybe I'm just as guilty as everyone else & overestimating our team. But I think we sacrificed winning at all costs for building the right way. At the time, I was ok with that. I think we're doing some of the same thing now. I'm not ok with that now.​

4 years later we'll probably be in a Super Bowl, 4 years after that, we'll probably win it.



But think about where the other expansion teams are now. No one wants to hear it, but that's the only way to judge this organization. We're not an expansion team any more, neither are they. But until this becomes a sought after destination for FA wanting to win a championship, we've still got a way to go.

 

[bckey]

McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

I never said he was a bad businessman. Slow learning as an NFL football team owner. Big difference.

And I am not a bitter fan. Disappointed yes. I'm just tired of the same ol same ol in Houston. Fans making excuses as to why our team didn't meet expectations. They had a huge meltdown at the end of epic proportions and fans are fine with it. By golly they beat the Bengals. Should have been off that week. They should have been whoopin a$$ on the Ravens at Reliant in the championship game. Why should we believe they will do anything different in 2013 if everything remains the same? Overall record is nothing. Bring a Lombardi to Houston.

 

[tru80texan]

I never said he was a bad businessman. Slow learning as an NFL football team owner. Big difference.

And I am not a bitter fan. Disappointed yes. I'm just tired of the same ol same ol in Houston. Fans making excuses as to why our team didn't meet expectations. They had a huge meltdown at the end of epic proportions and fans are fine with it. By golly they beat the Bengals. Should have been off that week. They should have been whoopin a$$ on the Ravens at Reliant in the championship game. Why should we believe they will do anything different in 2013 if everything remains the same? Overall record is nothing. Bring a Lombardi to Houston.

Can't say I feel much different & agree 100%.

 

[Premier]

If someone had told me in January 2010 that Texans fans would be so bitter after a 12-4 season that won the division and won a playoff game, I would not have believed you.

In January 2010, the Texans had one winning season and no playoff history. Amazing what two years and success can bring to a fanbase...

it has nothing to do with 2 years of success, weve been told for 4-5 years now that weve had a team ready for the playoffs. now were supposed to be content with 12-4 and getting blown out in the division round? lol wtf is that.. no fanbase should ever be content. when youre touted as a super bowl favorite and get embarrassed in the playoffs there is no silver lining, it was not a successful season, it was a failure..

 

[GP]

McNair's net worth is roughly at $1.5 B per Wiki (I didn't think to check Forbes, but is there a need?)

You don't put out an inferior product and make that much money year in and year out.

Product and team success are two different things.

One can be highly, continuously successful and bearing a bountiful harvest...while the other can languish and fall short of expectations.

10 times out of 10, a Super Bowl winning team is going to have automatic success in terms of being a cash cow. It's a natural consequence. What teams ever won the Super Bowl and then the following season saw its fan base shrink and regress in its spending on that team's products? I thought so.

But when a team can rake big bucks and never really produce a tried-and-true Super Bowl caliber team...a team who wins the Super Bowl or at least is playing in one...then this is more indicative of the team's savvy when it comes to providing 325 other "products" that the fan(s) enjoy and spend money upon.

I would love to see some sort of study and report that focuses on team's revenue and how it correlates to the mindset of a team's fan base. I think it's cultural to a large extent. I think certain areas of this country are more apt to function a certain way based on that area's cultural identity related to the sport being studied in the report.

In Texas, football is KING. We'll go nuts every year attending high school games, college games, and pro games: Three levels of football that Texas football fans relish with zeal year in and year out. We can tolerate a loser at one of those three levels because we often have a fall-back in one or more of the other two levels we're following. My Texans having a bad year is off-set by how my WTAMU Buffaloes almost made it to the championship game this year. We made it to the semi-finals. I had a fall-back "Option B" I could enjoy.

In California, I've heard many people say that football is popular but it's not nearly as big as it is in Texas and other more rural-minded states.

I think it'd be interesting if Grantland did a big article on this topic.

If anything, Bob McNair is a wise man because I bet his exploratory team--when he considered getting Houston another NFL franchise--did their homework and knew that Texas, of ANY state, would be the nearest thing to a sure-thing in terms of making a healthy profit off of fans come rain or shine. I'm not saying he's the devil and he's greedy. I'm saying he is SMART. Obviously.

In the Texas Panhandle region, in the early 1900s, the oil men hired geologists and even paleontologists ...they discovered that in the dinosaur age there were certain swamps and pools in certain areas of the Texas Panhandle--They knew where to drill and find large caches of dead dinosaurs...OIL!

Bob knew where to drill, folks. Smart man.

 

[Scooter]

i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" schit. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

 

[silentassassin]

Was there any moral victory when they somehow find a way to lose in 2010?

Either way, they would hear it, wouldn't they?

Exactly. I'm sure a lot of us weren't buying that "so close" thing back then. I don't understand how losing close games changes ANYTHING. They still lost the games they lost.

Situation is very binary for me. Winning vs. Losing, doesn't matter how it happens.

 

[steelbtexan]

i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" ****. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

Glad your happy with the 12 wins.

This team with Gary/Matt in charge is as good as it's going to get. IMHO

They've reached their peak as currently constructed. Matt is not going to get better. (Injury)

If that's good enough for you so be it. For a growing number in the fanbase it's not good enough.

 

[Double Barrel]

it has nothing to do with 2 years of success, weve been told for 4-5 years now that weve had a team ready for the playoffs. now were supposed to be content with 12-4 and getting blown out in the division round? lol wtf is that.. no fanbase should ever be content. when youre touted as a super bowl favorite and get embarrassed in the playoffs there is no silver lining, it was not a successful season, it was a failure..

You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

 

[76Texan]

You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

MSR.

Or maybe think about the Cardinal fans.
Let's say somehow you stick with the team since its inception, all the way back to 1920 (nineteen twenty.)

No Lombardi trophy, a 6-7 play-offs record, and 209 games under .500 for the regular season.

How is that for "suffering", LOL.

 

[Scooter]

Glad your happy with the 12 wins.

This team with Gary/Matt in charge is as good as it's going to get. IMHO

They've reached their peak as currently constructed. Matt is not going to get better. (Injury)

If that's good enough for you so be it. For a growing number in the fanbase it's not good enough.

our peak is 12 wins with favorable matchups against all but a couple of teams in the NFL. if that's "as good as it's going to get", i'm pretty sure being a fan of the texans is going to continue to be a lot of fun.

 

[thunderkyss]

Can't we all just get along?

Hey, I hear Cushing's house is for sale.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

sometimes loyalty isnt a good thing.

 

[HOU-TEX]

You do realize that us fans have ZERO influence on this team's operations, yeah?

So what do you propose fans do with with their resentment? Stop supporting the team? Stop buying merchandise? Write e-mails? Call sports radio? Stop going to games? Please elaborate how fans are supposed to show their discontent with a 12-4 team that won their division and won a playoff game. I am very interested in an effective fan movement, because everything up to this point in time over the years has been lame, and quite frankly, a joke.

At some point, you've got to enjoy the ride. Right now we have very vocal segment who are coming off as a bunch of myopic whiny fans who piss and moan because our team did not bring home a Lombardi.

Well, guess what, 31 teams in the NFL this year will have the same results as the Texans.

It's just ENTERTAINMENT. When did fans lose sight of this? Were y'all entertained or not? I know I enjoyed the hell out of the 2011 and 2012 seasons. If you didn't, why even bother being a fan?

Great post, DB! I'm guilty of losing sight of this too at times. I reckon I was kinda miffed with the way the last 1/4 or so of the season went, but iiwii.

 

[Double Barrel]

Great post, DB! I'm guilty of losing sight of this too at times. I reckon I was kinda miffed with the way the last 1/4 or so of the season went, but iiwii.

I'm certainly not above it all. None of us were happy with an 11-1 team blowing a chance at HFA. In the heat of the moment, we are all fans venting our perspectives.

But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

 

[Rey]

I'm certainly not above it all. None of us were happy with an 11-1 team blowing a chance at HFA. In the heat of the moment, we are all fans venting our perspectives.

But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

I'm not going to lie...I'm not super optimistic going forward as I feel this team is slow to recognize and fix problems.

But as always I'm looking forward to off season changes/additions to the team and hopefully another year of learning experience for all involved.

 

[Scooter]

But now in hindsight? I'm not going to lose sight of the big picture. Having 12 win team in this city is fantastic. I already miss football. It's going to be a long off-season.

this is exactly it. noone likes how it ended, but like it does for 31 teams every year, it ends in disappointment. what we cant lose sight of is that this WAS a successful season and one that can certainly be built upon. we arent going to lose any key pieces this year, especially if we can keep quin. we're going to be significantly stronger simply for having a full year of experience for 3 of our budding offensive linemen, and we'll have an excess of young talent infused between our current two rookie wide receivers and rush linebacker, and a ton of draft picks. heck we may even be able to save some money for a future impact free agent with the current youth movement (again on a 12 win team).

 

[BullNation4Life]

Look before everybody gets all giddy over the 12 wins, you have to look between the lines. 12 wins, great but what about the 4 losses? It's not the fact they had 4 loses, was never expecting a undefeated season, but look how they lost, hell look how they won.

a 3 game losing streak going into the playoffs..ok teams have done that before and come out ok BUT 1 TD in the red zone over 3 games? They go into Foxburough, get their head handed to them THEN go back and act like they have never seen the Patriots before.That is where my frustration comes into play and it now is no longer entertaining...

It is almost like watching your kid grow up and make the same damn mistakes you made, and you are helpless to do anything about it.You see it coming a mile away, and you hope that they see the light before it happens, then BAM, they walk right into what you hoped they would have avoided and there is nada you can do about it.

was the same way with the Texans this year, at least the last 7 weeks of the year...

 

[Double Barrel]

I'm not going to lie...I'm not super optimistic going forward as I feel this team is slow to recognize and fix problems.

But as always I'm looking forward to off season changes/additions to the team and hopefully another year of learning experience for all involved.

I can respect that perspective. I'm not advocating anyone to pump sunshine.

Rather, just have some objectivity about it. We finally have a team that is winning more than losing and going to the playoffs. That, in and of itself, is a good thing

Now, can they maintain? That's the big question in the off-season.

I'm more of a reactive fan than proactive. I am not a fortune teller and cannot predict the future. So we'll wait and see and talk about the team's decisions in the meantime.

this is exactly it. noone likes how it ended, but like it does for 31 teams every year, it ends in disappointment. what we cant lose sight of is that this WAS a successful season and one that can certainly be built upon. we arent going to lose any key pieces this year, especially if we can keep quin. we're going to be significantly stronger simply for having a full year of experience for 3 of our budding offensive linemen, and we'll have an excess of young talent infused between our current two rookie wide receivers and rush linebacker, and a ton of draft picks. heck we may even be able to save some money for a future impact free agent with the current youth movement (again on a 12 win team).

Good post, man. MSR.

I think folks can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic. There is nothing inherently wrong with either one. I just choose to be optimistic about our team's success so far, mainly because I vividly remember 2-14 and the 9 craptacular seasons before 2011.

Look before everybody gets all giddy over the 12 wins, you have to look between the lines. 12 wins, great but what about the 4 losses? It's not the fact they had 4 loses, was never expecting a undefeated season, but look how they lost, hell look how they won.

a 3 game losing streak going into the playoffs..ok teams have done that before and come out ok BUT 1 TD in the red zone over 3 games? They go into Foxburough, get their head handed to them THEN go back and act like they have never seen the Patriots before.That is where my frustration comes into play and it now is no longer entertaining...

It is almost like watching your kid grow up and make the same damn mistakes you made, and you are helpless to do anything about it.You see it coming a mile away, and you hope that they see the light before it happens, then BAM, they walk right into what you hoped they would have avoided and there is nada you can do about it.

was the same way with the Texans this year, at least the last 7 weeks of the year...

Fair enough. I'm not telling anyone to be giddy. By the same token, don't act like it's nothing to get 12 wins in this league. I hated the way the season ended, as well. No way to sugar coat that letdown.

The Texans are still learning, regardless if we realize it or not. 2012 was the first time that they were the front runners for most of a season. That, in and of itself, is a new perspective for the franchise and this fanbase. I think that kind of media attention got in their heads, which manifested itself in a very ugly way on MNF at Foxboro. They got down on themselves as a team. It snowballed for a few more weeks and they lost a chance for HFA (another first for this young franchise).

Unfortunately, they let it get to them again in NE. And this is where they have to mature into a championship caliber team. Collectively, not just individuals, they have to believe in themselves and find that intangible quality to rise above a collection of individual players and become a team.

I think they are talented enough to beat a team like NE. The Patriots are not perfect, as vividly shown last Sunday. So now the Texans have to learn to play physical and push their will onto other good teams.

I'm not saying they can or cannot do it. I might lean certain ways, but none of us truly knows until it happens. But, I have no doubt that their failures will teach them and they will learn.

 

[76Texan]

Can't we all just get along?

Hey, I hear Cushing's house is for sale.

Are you suggesting that they should move in together? J/k

 

[76Texan]

I would be receptive to that for about two days ... anyone have a half dozen hogs I can borrow?

Would you take a dozen chicks over six hogs?

I bet you can just spread words about a party at Cushing's house and a lot of them would show up.

 

[EllisUnit]

sometimes loyalty isnt a good thing.

My ex fiance would agree with you

 

[76Texan]

According to the movie Snatch .... hogs do a better job in a more timely manner.

Baa hahahaha, you crack me up, dude.:mariopalm:

 

[76Texan]

According to the movie Snatch .... hogs do a better job in a more timely manner.

Greedy as a Pig?
The last clip on there?

http://jaymckinnon.com/blog/movies/top-10-snatch-the-movie-moments

 

[bckey]

i understand lingering frustration, but the outcry has become ridiculous. we went 12-4 ... stop and think on that. 12-4. say it out loud. twelve wins. getting to the postseason is the goal, after that it becomes quite the crap shoot. ask arguably the greatest quarterback ever - peyton manning. if that's not enough, ask the greatest QB/HC pair ever (brady and belichick) who have gone 3-5 in their past 8 postseason games. ask the 1 and 2 defenses every year for the past 15 years - the steelers and ravens. 3 superbowls is fantastic, but combined they've been bumped from the playoffs 20 something times, with several years failing to even get in.

get over the "worst team ever" schit. i'm tired of it. i'm sick of the booing, the entitlement, the venom directed at schaub and kubiak, and the overall hate leveled at a team that went as far as their talent allowed.

mcnair's patience is WHY we won 12 games this year. it's why we still have kubiak and smith. it's why we were the talk of pundits all season as "this is the most complete team in football". it's why we're still a young and building and successful team instead of a reboot every other year. mcnair's patience is WHY you're so pissed off ... he stuck with a plan that would work. 12 wins and a tough loss is so heartbreaking that you have something to be passionate about. there are plenty of teams who can give you safe lethargy, would you be happier as a fan of the rams or cowboys or redskins who make giant splashes without having any substance or chance at real glory?

Maybe McNairs insistance on Philips as dc but not his patience. Where we differ scooter is you are excited and giddy over 12 wins that led to a disasterous playoffs. I'm not. I think the 2011 Texans were better than the 2012 version. You are excited about next year because you think Kubiak is the right coach and can get us to the superbowl. I don't. And as for the pundits. None of them gave the Texans a chance in hell after the meltdown at the end of the season and rightfully so. The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.

I love the Texans and I want them to win probably worse than most on this board. I grew up close to the astrodome when it was just a hole in the ground. I have been rooting for Houston NFL football since the 60's. Fanhood is not a question. I want a winner. A superbowl winner. And I will ***** and moan when I think they are off track from obtaining that goal. Regular season victories are nice but they don't do squat for winning a superbowl. Win some big games Texans. Grow up!

 

[Surreal McCoy]

The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.

Something neither of the Superbowl finalists have. Great point.

 

[bckey]

Something neither of the Superbowl finalists have. Great point.

You missed the whole point. Do they have Kubiak as their hc? And I would argue that San Fran has a pretty damn good defense.

 

[tru80texan]

Maybe McNairs insistance on Philips as dc but not his patience. Where we differ scooter is you are excited and giddy over 12 wins that led to a disasterous playoffs. I'm not. I think the 2011 Texans were better than the 2012 version. You are excited about next year because you think Kubiak is the right coach and can get us to the superbowl. I don't. And as for the pundits. None of them gave the Texans a chance in hell after the meltdown at the end of the season and rightfully so. The only way the Texans will win a superbowl with Kubiak is in spite of him. An elite defense is a must.

I love the Texans and I want them to win probably worse than most on this board. I grew up close to the astrodome when it was just a hole in the ground. I have been rooting for Houston NFL football since the 60's. Fanhood is not a question. I want a winner. A superbowl winner. And I will ***** and moan when I think they are off track from obtaining that goal. Regular season victories are nice but they don't do squat for winning a superbowl. Win some big games Texans. Grow up!

No truer words could be spoken. Don't get me wrong, I too enjoyed the 12 wins but at the end of the day the late season slump made it all for not as it carried over into the playoffs. Despite the 12 wins many, fans & media, had doubts about this teams makeup & rightfully so. They simply didn't show up against the better teams & PROVE that they belonged amongst them & thus many in the media dubbed the Texans "frauds". Which, imo, is the biggest show of disrespect, but was hard to argue. Let's be honest, outside of the 2 additional regular season wins this team faired no better then last season. Both exited in the Divisional round after being #3 seeds & defeating Cincy. The only difference was the optimism exiting 2011 was 10x greater as opposed to the skepticism as they exited 2012. This team was suppose to look better & contend in 2012 for a Super Bowl. And by "contend" I don't mean simply making the playoffs. They didn't fulfill their own expectations, so why should we be satisfied. At some point the bar has to rise & we to have quit treating minor accomplishments, such as 2 additional reg season wins, as major steps for a team that wants to be acknowledged as one of the best. Plain & simple.

Hope I still qualify as a Texans fan after all that. LOL!

 

[Surreal McCoy]

You missed the whole point. Do they have Kubiak as their hc? And I would argue that San Fran has a pretty damn good defense.

erm, no.

 

[Ghostform]

erm, no.

Im pretty sure you missed the point. Step away from the koolaid for a minute and read it again. Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

 

[Double Barrel]

What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

 

[infantrycak]

What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

While getting your point and generally agreeing, one could argue Barry Switzer pretty persuasively.

 

[thunderkyss]

Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

Do you believe that?

I don't know that we needed the defense to be elite, but that performance two weeks ago was far, far from elite.

The Ravens defense was struggling most of the year & ours was kicking butt & taking names over the first half of the year, up until they ran into an elite QB. Then I still believe they were more awestruck, than incapable of keeping the score down.

You can't stop an elite offense, just slow them down enough to give our offense an opportunity to keep up.

Our defense has played better than what we saw two weeks ago. I don't think it's too much to ask that they play closer to elite level than what they did.

 

[silentassassin]

What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

Even if it's being said, I doubt it's truly believed.

Perhaps it's because Kubiak in recent years has done nothing that warrants or justifys a firing, so maybe it's their way of convincing themselves that he's "capable."

Until this team(hopefully not) begins trending downwards, of course.

 

[Double Barrel]

While getting your point and generally agreeing, one could argue Barry Switzer pretty persuasively.

Understand your point, but that Cowboys team did lose the NFC championship game during his first year as HC. It's not like it was completely automatic.

 

[Surreal McCoy]

Im pretty sure you missed the point. Step away from the koolaid for a minute and read it again. Pretty sure he said WE (as in the Texans) need to have an elite D to have any chance at getting to the superbowl with Kubiak as the coach. I dont see how that was so hard to understand. The 9ers and Ravens are not being coached by Kubiak. Selective reading is curable, just gotta take your head out of your ass.

Two things:

1. You, and possibly GP, are the last two folks on earth that should lecture anyone on reading comprehension. I am being nice here...seriously.

2. You are completely off, on both the poster's statement, and my reply.

 

[ObsiWan]

I can respect that perspective. I'm not advocating anyone to pump sunshine.

Rather, just have some objectivity about it. We finally have a team that is winning more than losing and going to the playoffs. That, in and of itself, is a good thing

Now, can they maintain? That's the big question in the off-season.

I'm more of a reactive fan than proactive. I am not a fortune teller and cannot predict the future. So we'll wait and see and talk about the team's decisions in the meantime.



Good post, man. MSR.

I think folks can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic. There is nothing inherently wrong with either one. I just choose to be optimistic about our team's success so far, mainly because I vividly remember 2-14 and the 9 craptacular seasons before 2011.



Fair enough. I'm not telling anyone to be giddy. By the same token, don't act like it's nothing to get 12 wins in this league. I hated the way the season ended, as well. No way to sugar coat that letdown.

The Texans are still learning, regardless if we realize it or not. 2012 was the first time that they were the front runners for most of a season. That, in and of itself, is a new perspective for the franchise and this fanbase. I think that kind of media attention got in their heads, which manifested itself in a very ugly way on MNF at Foxboro. They got down on themselves as a team. It snowballed for a few more weeks and they lost a chance for HFA (another first for this young franchise).

Unfortunately, they let it get to them again in NE. And this is where they have to mature into a championship caliber team. Collectively, not just individuals, they have to believe in themselves and find that intangible quality to rise above a collection of individual players and become a team.

I think they are talented enough to beat a team like NE. The Patriots are not perfect, as vividly shown last Sunday. So now the Texans have to learn to play physical and push their will onto other good teams.

I'm not saying they can or cannot do it. I might lean certain ways, but none of us truly knows until it happens. But, I have no doubt that their failures will teach them and they will learn.

Careful. Rational, sober posts are not always welcome here.

Repped

 

[Surreal McCoy]

What team has ever won a Super Bowl in spite of their head coach?

Seriously think about that argument for a second and you will realize the logical fallacy inherent to the statement.

If you think this franchise must win a Super Bowl in spite of Gary Kubiak, then you must accept that this team will never win a Super Bowl with Gary Kubiak as head coach.

That is indeed their premise and sincere hope. It's not about the success of the franchise, it's entirely about the success of their ideas. Fortunately most NFL franchises don't allow the fans to make important decisions, well at least not any franchise outside Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, Arizona, Miami, Chicago, KC, Carolina, etc etc...

MSR

 

[infantrycak]

Understand your point, but that Cowboys team did lose the NFC championship game during his first year as HC. It's not like it was completely automatic.

SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

 

[HoustonFrog]

SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

And this is why we are still trying to win again 16 years later. Jerry being Jerry. He stated in an interview that he could find 500 coaches to win the SBs. So then he had to prove it. Just like he is still trying to prove that he can GM. Frustrating.

 

[Double Barrel]

SBs are never automatic. Rumor had it though the team leaders semi-revolted in between the 1st and 2nd Switzer season telling him they wanted to go back to JJ ball. You know Aikman transferred colleges to get away from Switzer? That was one of the most bizarre coaching selections ever - hey let's bring in a coach my star QB hates.

The recent "A Football Life" about Jimmy Johnson was very revealing in that regard. Many of those players sound like they still hold a grudge against Jerry Jones. And I believe those players when they feel cheated because they could have won more Super Bowls under Johnson.

Seeing the history between Jones, Johnson, and Switzer from Arkansas was interesting, and I think Jones was a bit vindictive in hiring Switzer to take over Johnson's team.

It makes sense about Aikman. That was Johnson's team that he built, and Switzer is that "exception to a rule" about a team winning in spite of it's head coach. He did not contribute to that team, but instead rode it's coattails. He wasn't even on the staff when he was hired. His 6-10 record in his fourth year says it all.

 

[GP]

Back to Gary Ball now.

If there is anything that signals that this team is in trouble for the future, it's how we settled for FGs so often down the stretch.

We're all pretty in-tune with this team's ebb and flow, and so somebody please tell me what the running joke was--in the game day threads--the last month of the season?

Answers vary, but have the same tone:

"Dialing up a 3 burger in 3...2...1!"

"Here we go guys, we're in FG range now. Yessss!"

"Shocker, another FG."

Defenses, IMO, know that they can let Gary Ball defeat itself. Let it get down to the RZ, then tighten up your coverage and bottle up Foster...because for whatever reason, be it play calling or a lack of focus/killer instinct by the players, the offense rarely punches it into the EZ unless the defense has a complete lapse of awareness, i.e. "Beating up on the weak sisters" theory.

But hey, JJ Watt and our defense will turn around and get that ball back for Matt and boys. Oops, I forgot: That's not always automatic.

I think we COULD be in for a rude awakening in 2013. AJ will be a year older. We've lost Posey who was arguably our up-and-coming WR who has the hands, the route running, and the attitude when he catches the ball to do something with it. Who the hell knows, with certainty, if the OL will "gel" or not. Owen is beginning to battle weekly injuries. Garrett Graham is an unknown. We don't use Casey, and my gawd can you imagine this guy on a team like the Patriots??? Special teams will be Marciano's handiwork all over again, bank on it.

That leaves with the defense, and those guys were straight BLOWN UP in the middle...all the ILB injuries we sustained, which started with Cushing and went like dominoes thereafter. Brady James was a really bad gamble by Wade. He let his heart dictate his decision making there. JJ Watt needs help, and I don't think this team brings Antonio Smith back. I can see them putting Mitchell in his spot, then finding a NT solution out of thin air somehow.

Sorry to be a negative nelly, but this team--under the current leadership and facing the problems I stated above--I think we're in for a .500 season or slightly better, and I think we could even end up fighting for a WC playoff spot because I think the Colts retake the AFCS in 2013. Might be wrong, we might have a repeat of 2012 where we win the AFCS and the Colts get the WC spot again.

I just know that this team was settling for FGs the last month of the season, maybe with the exception of that last Titans game whereby the Titans royally handed us that game on a platter all day long. That's a look into the mindset of this team's character, specifically its genius HC Gary Kubiak. Settling for FGs, then expecting Wade to work his magic. Then coming back and...settling for FGs again. The white flag wasn't just waved in the Patriots game, it was still flapping in the wind the rest of the way (with the exception of the Bengals playoff game).

 

[thunderkyss]

Back to Gary Ball now.

If there is anything that signals that this team is in trouble for the future, it's how we settled for FGs so often down the stretch.

We're all pretty in-tune with this team's ebb and flow, and so somebody please tell me what the running joke was--in the game day threads--the last month of the season?

Answers vary, but have the same tone:

"Dialing up a 3 burger in 3...2...1!"

"Here we go guys, we're in FG range now. Yessss!"

"Shocker, another FG."

We had red zone issues before Dennison got here. That was one of the things Dennison was supposed to help us figure out.

Our Red zone weapon of choice had been Arian Foster, who up until week 12 or 13 was getting into the endzone as well as anyone.

The only thing I can think of that changed, was that Ryan Harris got more playing time because Newton got hurt.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Special teams will be Marciano's handiwork all over again, bank on it.

John McClain has already confirmed that last week on his 610 segment.:mariopalm:

 

[Double Barrel]

John McClain has already confirmed that last week on his 610 segment.:mariopalm:

This honestly makes me question some fundamental aspects of this front office.

Status quo is not going to make this team better.

In the words of Frank Zappa: "'Progress is not possible without deviation."

Right now, I'm cautiously optimistic about 2013. However, that's a fragile perspective, because there is nothing convincing that this team can repeat a 12 win season, all things considered.

Not making a crappy special teams unit upgrade is a bad sign for the future, IMO. Where is the accountability???

 

[thunderkyss]

This honestly makes me question some fundamental aspects of this front office.

Status quo is not going to make this team better.

In the words of Frank Zappa: "'Progress is not possible without deviation."

Not making a crappy special teams unit upgrade is a bad sign for the future, IMO. Where is the accountability???

Personally, I never believed that firing someone is an instant upgrade. I also never believed that is the only way to hold someone accountable.

I don't know what this FO is thinking. I don't know that Joe Marciano is coming back as ST coach. But if he was, I don't know that I would have a problem with that.

This organization is already facing criticism because we released two of the most electric kick returners of the 2012 season, while fielding one of the worse special teams.

The question I would ask is, "is Joe M a good coach or not?" If I believe he's a good coach, he's not going anywhere. If I do not have faith in him, he's gone.

Our opinion of Coach Joe may be very different than theirs for valid reasons. We only see what we see & they see a whole lot more.

There was a time when Special Teams was the only good part of this team. As both the offense & the defense improved, Special Teams progressively got worse.

Is Coach Joe picking his players, or is he being told what he will work with? That could be the biggest part of the problem right there.

Our STs in the play offs wasn't too shabby, once they got starters & other role players on ST.

So I'd be more worried about how they approach ST more than if there is a coaching change or not.

 

[Double Barrel]

Personally, I never believed that firing someone is an instant upgrade. I also never believed that is the only way to hold someone accountable.

I don't know what this FO is thinking. I don't know that Joe Marciano is coming back as ST coach. But if he was, I don't know that I would have a problem with that.

This organization is already facing criticism because we released two of the most electric kick returners of the 2012 season, while fielding one of the worse special teams.

The question I would ask is, "is Joe M a good coach or not?" If I believe he's a good coach, he's not going anywhere. If I do not have faith in him, he's gone.

Our opinion of Coach Joe may be very different than theirs for valid reasons. We only see what we see & they see a whole lot more.

There was a time when Special Teams was the only good part of this team. As both the offense & the defense improved, Special Teams progressively got worse.

Is Coach Joe picking his players, or is he being told what he will work with? That could be the biggest part of the problem right there.

Our STs in the play offs wasn't too shabby, once they got starters & other role players on ST.

So I'd be more worried about how they approach ST more than if there is a coaching change or not.

The bolded pretty much speaks for itself regarding coach Joe.

The NFL is a results driven business. The fact that our special teams has become a huge liability is quite evident. Teams often replace good coaches because the players need a wake-up call.

You are right in that we can only see what we see, but what we see is the end product. Our average starting position was one of the worst in the NFL, iirc. That is additional strain on our offense where it should be giving them an advantage.

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

 

[silentassassin]

The bolded pretty much speaks for itself regarding coach Joe.

The NFL is a results driven business. The fact that our special teams has become a huge liability is quite evident. Teams often replace good coaches because the players need a wake-up call.

You are right in that we can only see what we see, but what we see is the end product. Our average starting position was one of the worst in the NFL, iirc. That is additional strain on our offense where it should be giving them an advantage.

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

I'd say it's our HC's perceived unwillingness to let go of his guy. I understand Marciano has been here from the beginning, but I'd assume at this point, he's a guy Kubiak fully trusts and believes in.

None of us(I think) know what went on behind the scenes after the 2010 season, but I'm sure many believe Kubiak was almost goaded by Bob McNair to make the move and bring Wade Phillips in. You can argue it the other way too and say that the historically bad defensive results were enough to convince Kubiak to do it himself(but I doubt this).

So I guess the short answer is that they're possibly keeping him because that's just the kind of guy Kubiak is.

 

[thunderkyss]

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

If they keep him, then they believe he is a good coach & was put in a corner by decisions made above his paygrade. For all I know, Jacoby Jones & Trindon Holliday were the only players he wanted on special teams & they were the two Kubiak cut for reasons not pertaining to special teams.

Jacoby got cut because Kubiak was pissed that he muffed the punt or they had to get under the salary cap.

Trindon was cut because they needed the roster spot for someone who didn't finish the season on the active roster.

Most likely he wanted Ball, Braman, & if I remember, McMannis was pretty good too.

& he got stuck with Earl Mitchell.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

What would be your guess as to why they are keeping him?

Same thing that kept HWWNBN so long.

I'd say it's our HC's perceived unwillingness to let go of his guy. I understand Marciano has been here from the beginning, but I'd assume at this point, he's a guy Kubiak fully trusts and believes in.

None of us(I think) know what went on behind the scenes after the 2010 season, but I'm sure many believe Kubiak was almost goaded by Bob McNair to make the move and bring Wade Phillips in. You can argue it the other way too and say that the historically bad defensive results were enough to convince Kubiak to do it himself(but I doubt this).

So I guess the short answer is that they're possibly keeping him because that's just the kind of guy Kubiak is.

Marciano has not been able to adjust his scheme ever since his loss of the "wedge." Many a coach have lost their "edge" and their jobs for much the same reason.......because they could not adapt. It however is up to those above to be able to recognize such things and act on it accordingly....in a timely fashion......as most great teams do.