Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
They should take these guys out like they do on that elite 11 show and give them a good workout . The #1 guy in the country didn't even make it to the first 8 IIRC . Jameis Winston won the show I watched .
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Blake Bortles
- Thread starter Texian
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I agree. I hate the way folks act like the players all come with little objectively graded bar codes and you just line them up - then yell at anything not done in conformance with the imaginary value.
drs23
Veteran
...I don't see the accuracy...
For me, any top ten pick should be able to start week one. Maybe he doesn't give you the best chance to win... say he was drafted behind Brett Favre, or on the same team with Banden Albert.
But if all you've got is Case Keenum & Tj Yates, you should be starting day 1.
I don't think Bortles is a day one starter. I love his size, his mobility, his arm. But he's going to need more than one off-season to acclimate him to an NFL offense (my opinion).
However, I have no doubt he'll go with the 3rd overall pick if not the 2nd, only because there will be such a demand for QBs among the top 5-6 teams. So I can understand if the Texans feel like he's their guy & take him with the first overall. Same for Bridgewater.
I still wouldn't like it. Well, Bridgewater may be able to start day 1, hopefully he'll be 210+ by the time for the combine. 215 I'll be happy. 220, I'll be ecstatic. Otherwise, like Schaub, we'll be holding our breath, hoping he can play a whole season.
If we draft Bortles, we better bring in a vet that gives us a chance to win. Maybe not a Super Bowl, but 8 or 9 games.
McNair already say we were going to bring in a veteran so that we wouldn't have to start a rookie.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Not only that, that would seem like such a flawed system to go by. You're just going to throw all factors out the window for whoever you got ranked high enough on your barcode list? What if you have two other good guys at that position? What if you have a really great guy at another position of need for your team available, but he is two slots down on the barcode list so you're supposed to pass on him? I just don't see how that follows and sort of sound logic at all no matter how many GM's talk about BPA as their strategy.
You guys are taking BPA way to literally. There are many exceptions but the main idea is you don't take a player at a position of need when there is another player that is clearly a better overall player.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I understand the concept just fine. What I disagree with is the folks who think they can line everybody up in precise "best player" order. It's ridiculous on so many fronts. For instance, these discussions act like the "best players" all line up single file. They don't. Taking someone who may go 10 spots down may still be taking a player of equal talent level. It creates a strategic opportunity to attempt a trade but if one can't be wrangled taking any of them there is not a reach. It's really should be considered the next ballpark of talent approach.
Texian
Hall of Fame
On this we disagree. Unlike many who have been in love with Teddy since the Sugar Bowl and who still are to this day, I started the season with Manziel and Boyd as my 2 top QBs. I also thought that David Fales would be in the discussion as a Top 5 QB. Boyd had a much better Peach Bowl vs Teddy's Sugar Bowl. While Teddy played a good game much of Louisville's success in that game came from their defense, Florida's 3 turnovers and Jeff Driskel's horrible play (a pick six to start the game).
When the season started Winston and Bortles were not even on my radar. Bortles blipped when he almost beat S Caro and Winston showed up after dismantling Clemson. It was only after watching several games from the top 10 QBs in this draft, that I decided sometime in November, that the Top 3 QBs in this year for me were Winston, Manziel and Bortles. Winston is not eligible for the draft, I believe Manziel has as much affinity for drinking beer as he does playing football and Bortles has the best arm and highest ceiling of them all. Next to Manziel, Bortles runs best and only runs when he has to and when he needs to make things happen.
Now if that is being biased, well then, I guess I am biased. Unlike you and many others, your love for Teddy has never wavered since last years Sugar Bowl. You think I am biased because I don't share your love for Teddy. If you think all my other information is good, why is my evaluation of Bortles flawed and bias?
bah007
Hall of Fame
Madden mentality. Every player has an overall grade and you can never pass on the player with the highest overall, even if it is only one point higher.
It's a silly system.
Sounds to me your biggest issue is with the name. BPA doesn't mean you take the next name on the list. Just because lot of message board mock drafters take it that way doesn't mean that is how it's done. Anyone that's been around long enough should know this.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Don't kid yourself, Jax beat the Texans because of the incompetence on the Texans coaching staff, not because of the talent of Jax.
Jax has absolutely no talent on their roster that compares to the talent on the Texans roster. They are even parting ways with their best offensive player...
Texian
Hall of Fame
I don't try to kid myself. I do try to deal in reality. That's what the scoreboard is. The scoreboard is what the scoreboard says, I also don't try to make excuses for it. I also don't try to drink the McNair Koolaid, like so many others. The scoreboard says Bob McNair has been either misguided, misled, misinformed or all of the above if he honestly believes he has a talented Super Bowl contending team.
What is watchespn and how do I get it
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The bolded is why folks might think you're biased...me included. Bridgewater has been rumored to be potentially the top pick..or at least top 5 in the draft for basically 2 years now...& you pretty much go out of your way to discredit him.
Meanwhile, I don't think Bortles was on anyone's radar as potentially the best qb and top pick in the draft until here recently in the last month or so. For your part you admittedly say that Bortles wasn't even on your radar........until he had 1 nice showing against an SEC team.....that wasn't even that nice imo.
Here's another thing. TB & Bortles both played in the AAC. So why is it that people discredit the AAC competition when talking about TB & what he did against them.... but ignore it for the most part when talking about Bortles?
What Bortles' team did this year is what TB team did last year except:
TB's game statistically was better
The team TB faced was better imo
TB looked much more comfortable on the big stage than Bortles did
In all honesty, the only thing that Bortles really has on TB is that he looks more the part than TB. If his arm is stronger, its neglible imo.
The Bortles faction isn't as big as the Bridgewater group. I don't think anyone here really thinks Bortles is an option at 1-1.
I don't. I don't think Manziel is either, which is why I'm saying Bridgewater shouldn't be either. I won't argue that he's better than both guys. I don't care if he is or isn't. I don't believe he is. But if you do, I argue he can't be much better.
So unless you think Manziel or Bortles are top 5 talents in this draft, we shouldn't be talking about Bridgewater at 1-1.
I have no doubt that the Jags & Browns are likely to draft two of the three in the top 5..... but we shouldn't be planning how we're going to attack the draft because of what 2 of the worst franchises in the league do, unless we're fine with being among them as one of the worst franchises in the league. Unless you're fine with mediocrity. Unless you're fine with losing.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Better is better....period....and if you can afford it, you always pick the best of whatever. You don't not pick the best just b/c you may be able to get something else similar cheaper... This is the situation the Texans are in with 1:1. You have the opportunity to pick who you think is the best...so pick the best...doesn't matter how much better...or even what position it is...well actually, the position does kinda matter at that slot.
Alot of it has to do with the teams at the top of the draft board (qb needy), but as i said with TB, if you are thought to be good enough to go top 5, you're good enough to be picked 1:1 overall. Many draftniks have Bortles going top 5. Hell, LZ/John Harris has him as ranked as the #1 prospect overall i believe.
As far as the rest of your post, It doesn't really make sense. Everyone's board is different, but not as much when it comes to the top 5 picks. In essesnce what you're saying is that we shouldn't look at Teddy or any other qb if the jags & browns don't have them ranked the same or are already looking at drafting either of the 3....
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I find it hilarious that a guy like McShay didn't even know who Bortles was 6 months ago but now has him going top 10 in his mocks. The recent media attention has boosted his "stock" from the 2nd round to top 10 and possibly #1 in a span of 3-4 games.
FWIW, Bortles has been on my radar since the beginning of his Sophomore year in 2012. Was very impressed with him in the Ohio State game and, although he eventually lost the game because of turnovers, he showed a lot of promise. I still don't see him as the top QB and don't think I will. He has the physical makeup that Bridgewater and Manziel lack and that is why he is so popular with the draftniks right now.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I just simply do not agree with this line of thinking at all. This is entirely your opinion and that's fine, but I would argue that how you rank Manziel or Bortles has nothing do with how you rank Bridgewater.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's like you're arguing that there's no one who should be taken at #1. No Bridgewater, no Bortles, no Manziel.
We shouldn't take Clowney because he's not a fit in Crennel's defense.
We shouldn't waste the 1-1 pick on a guy who's going to play RT, so no Matthews.
So... I don't know.. Barr?
But ultimately, the flaw is thinking that Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel can't be at the very top of a professional team's list of prospects. Based on football IQ, I expect Bridgewater to be the top of BOB's list but if Bortles or Manziel really shine at the combine and have really good interviews and BOB sees things on film that he likes from them, any of them could be deemed good for the 1-1 pick.
Remember, there were a lot of people who didn't want Peyton Manning with the 1-1 pick. So just saying there are people who don't want Bortles with 1-1 doesn't carry any real weight.
It's up to our FO to look at all the alternatives and figure out which one is going to do the most to improve our team. If that means drafting Clowney or Barr and then trading back up to get Boyd at the top of the 1st or if it means drafting Bortles at 1-1 or trading back for more picks or whatever.
But to basically argue that there's no one worthy of the pick is just not right.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm in the Bridgewater group, but I keep hearing that Bortles is a "Bill O'Brien type passer". So I definitely think Bortles could be a legitimate option at 1.1 for us.
1st, I think we should draft the best player in the draft. Unless we fall in love with a QB. IF the Texans fall in love with one of the three, they have no choice but to take him at 1-1 (because St.Louis, Cleveland, & Jacksonville most likely will if you don't). I'm not in love with any of these guys & don't think they are any more likely to be successfull than guys like Taj Boyd, Zach Mettenberger, & Aj McCarron (<- yes, some people have taken him completely off their board, but I like what I see).
2nd, If I think Jake Matthews, Greg Robinson, or Taylor Lewan have the potential to be a franchise LT, I'm drafting one of them with the 1-1 if I'm not able to negotiate a trade that I really like. I'm not drafting him to play RT, even though he may start there as a rookie (not likely if I think he has what it takes to be a franchise LT, but he might), I'm drafting a LT. If that means that Gary's OT with the fat paycheck gets paid a lot more than the average RT... so be it. The line as a whole would be better. Much, much, on another level better.
3rd, I don't think we're going to get Crennel
4th, I think Clowney would make an awesome 3-4 OLB but I'm not drafting an OLB with the #1 overall.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
That last one sounds suspiciously like the reasoning for drafting Carr over Peppers in year #1.
bah007
Hall of Fame
If we go OT at #1 the only guy I'm okay with is Greg Robinson. I think he's a franchise LT, and he would also benefit from starting out at RT.
I think Matthews, Kouandjio, and Lewan are all future RTs. Matthews maybe even an OG.
My #2 LT in the draft is Richardson, and I think there's a shot he will be there at #33.
This is simplifying things big time but I like Bridgewater and Richardson more than Mettenberger and Robinson.
I think Matthews, Kouandjio, and Lewan are all future RTs. Matthews maybe even an OG.
My #2 LT in the draft is Richardson, and I think there's a shot he will be there at #33.
This is simplifying things big time but I like Bridgewater and Richardson more than Mettenberger and Robinson.
Blake
MMQB
I am ok with Robinson being ranked the #1 tackle prospect (In a vacuum I think Lewan could be the best), but I cannot sign off on Robinson being the pick @#1. He is on my board in the 5-15 range.
I could be on board with grabbing Richardson at the top of the 2nd. Gotta protect our investment.
That's if you're under the impression that TB is head-and-shoulders above the other choices. There's quite a few folks that don't think he's that far ahead. I see them as basically 1A, 1B and 1C at this point. We can only hope the combine and Pro days help sort this out better.
So, what's actually wrong with the argument that there's nobody worth the 1:1?
There is no consensus "lock" in this draft according to many. If Bob / Smith / BoB can deal backwards and pick up some depth, many would be hard pressed to say it was unwarranted.
So yeah, taking a guy at 1:1 if you can trade back to 1:4 and still get him is a wasted chance.
Lord knows I'm not betting on the Texans brain-trust to wow me with trades though.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The problem with the idea that there's no one worth 1-1 is that you've got to take someone. If no one wants to trade with you, then you've either got to give something up to induce someone to take it off your hands or you have to make a decision.
The problem is thinking that 1-1 has to be the best player in the draft and has to be the second coming of Peyton Manning. 1-1 has to be the player you think can make the biggest impact with your team that you're not going to be able to take at your next draft pick.
If a middle linebacker is the guy who's going to make the biggest impact and he's not going to be there at your next pick and no one wants to trade with you, then you take that guy with 1-1. If it's a guard or a safety, then you take that guy.
This whole argument that you don't take rush linebackers or you don't take right tackles doesn't work for me although I know a lot of people ascribe to that philosophy.
You make a decision and you roll the dice. (Assuming, like I said, you can't trade and end up in a better position.)
markn
All Pro
I think the best veteran QB available will be Matt Schaub, who I never want to see in a Texan's shirt again. I think the best QB in the draft is Bridgewater, but I don't think is 1.1 material. And I think our team's #1priority is to find a franchise QB. In short, I think in 2013, we picked the wrong season to suck.
Best outcome for me would be to trade out of 1.1 and still get TB with whatever 1st rnd pick we get from the trade.
Best outcome for me would be to trade out of 1.1 and still get TB with whatever 1st rnd pick we get from the trade.
TheIronDuke
All Pro
Wish in one hand and poop in the other. If we trade out of 1.1 we're not getting Bridgewater.
And Christ almighty all these people crying about us sucking the wrong year. Last year all anyone could talk about was how bad ass this draft class was. Last year would've been WAY worse to suck so maybe we can stop crying and worrying about who is #1 overall "worthy" and just pick the best g-d QB in the draft. Oh, and that's Bridgewater and I think that's pretty obvious.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Peppers or Reed, and Peppers was certainly thought of as being worthy of 1-1.
markn
All Pro
I didn't say it was likey, just best possible scenario.
Do one.
Probably safest strategy, but unlikely to be a long term success. Agreed TB is likely the best QB in the draft.
drs23
Veteran
Completely on board with this statement. Now the draft class sux. I'm having a hard time following that logic. If your guy is there, ya snag him. Case closed, it's a wrap.
I already stated you need that trading partner. As for the rest? Just "rolling the dice" is what gets you Ryan Leaf.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
See, this guy gets it. The ones claiming there's no Luck in the draft are either getting senile or simply dont get it. Luck is someone who probably won't come around for 15 years. Literally one of a kind so stop using him as a measuring stick. I guess I should never settle for anything less than a Ferrari. I really hope we draft Bridgewater because a small part of me wants these posters to have to eat their words when he goes surgical on secondaries.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I don't think Lewan is a LT and I think he is very overrated. I compare him to a guy like Oher. He can step in and play some LT, but only to fill in. In reality, he's a RT.
I've said before though that Richardson is my favorite OT in this class. Bridgewater plus Richardson would be pretty awesome.
See... if I were from the "You have to take a chance on the QB" crowd, I'd have said Carr, because you've got to take that chance.
Blake
MMQB
Wow. Didn't see that coming. I think Lewan has the size to pay LT in the pros. 4 year starter at LT for Michigan. And naaaaaaaasty which some people keep yearning for from our players. I think a team will take him in the first round, 1 year on the right, then take over permanently on the left.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
Man, you are so right. If the Texans were to ever get another chance at the 1st pick and chose the best QB, we'd definitely get another "Carr." Let's do the Kansas City route and beef up our defense, OL, and running game. It's all won there! Quarterback - Schmotorback. Who needs it.