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BILL O'BRIEN FIRED

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IDEXAN said:
Interesting analysis but in my own humble opinion I think some day in business schools throughout the country they will be studying
the Bill O'Brien story in Houston as a classic example of the Peter Principal.
O'Brien has been a reasonably capable HC in the NFL here in Houston but when promoted to GM the wheels came off with some of his decisions as it's hard to argue the Texans roster became stronger and not weaker since his promotion.
And to make his new position even more challenging O'Brien was to also continue as HC after becoming GM.
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I thought the lessons learned from the Chip Kelly and Eagles experiment was enough to convince NFL owners that unless your HC is Bill Belichick, it's a bad idea to have your HC as GM or with so much control over personnel. Obviously, the Texans heard "Bill" and didn't listen to the warning.
 
zshawn10 said:
Pancakes mailbag; just got destroyed



www.houstonchronicle.com

Texans fans say goodbye to Bill O'Brien in the mother of all mailbags

John McClain answers a wide variety of readers' questions regarding the Texans firing...
www.houstonchronicle.com www.houstonchronicle.com
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Speaking of Pancakes, where was the "Hall of Fame" journalist when all this was going on? Does he not have as good access to the team as everyone else? So why is it, we get all these stories now of the problems going on behind the scenes and none of these "breaking" stories came from him. I just wonder if he knew(and how could he not when others did) and didn't report it because of his buddy O'brien or if the players purposely gave the story to someone else as they knew how McClain always defended Bob.
 
ColeThornton said:
Speaking of Pancakes, where was the "Hall of Fame" journalist when all this was going on? Does he not have as good access to the team as everyone else? So why is it, we get all these stories now of the problems going on behind the scenes and none of these "breaking" stories came from him. I just wonder if he knew(and how could he not when others did) and didn't report it because of his buddy O'brien or if the players purposely gave the story to someone else as they knew how McClain always defended Bob.
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McClain hasn't had inside info since the oilers.
 
Scooter said:
I would add someone like ST coach Bill Cowher in that mold, and it seems that Bienemy is that 'ask the smartest people' guy. By all accounts an incredible coach, and if he brings the great thought behind Andy Reids' offense it's a bonus - not the other way around. But, as you said, the Patriots' chaplain is our current president of football operations, fired the GM and headcoach, and installed himself as interim GM (uh-oh).

The selling point is Watson at QB and a history of giving employees time to establish themselves. The whole world knows we're sunk and need at least 2-3 years to recover from such destructive moves ... it's actually quite the blank check for both coach and GM.
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I'm not sold that Bieniemy is that guy. He interviewed for (3) HC positions with the Jets, Giants and Panthers. If he was that guy I can't imagine why he wasn't hired by one those teams. Bieniemey is hot right now because KC won the Super Bowl and Mahomes is the real deal. IMO Mahomes would be Mahomes with or without Eric. Reminds me of all of the Belichick assistants who were hired right after Pats won a Super Bowls and all have failed miserably. Cowher may have been that guy like Royal and Harbaugh. Pittsburgh has a knack for getting their HCs right.
 
Texian said:
I'm not sold that Bieniemy is that guy. He interviewed for (3) HC positions with the Jets, Giants and Panthers. If he was that guy I can't imagine why he wasn't hired by one those teams. Bieniemey is hot right now because KC won the Super Bowl and Mahomes is the real deal. IMO Mahomes would be Mahomes with or without Eric. Reminds me of all of the Belichick assistants who were hired right after Pats won a Super Bowls and all have failed miserably. Cowher may have been that guy like Royal and Harbaugh. Pittsburgh has a knack for getting their HCs right.
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So who would you hire as hc?
 
Texian said:
Well I have always been an advocate of trying to go with proven winners. I don't see how you can make that happen in the NFL so I would try to make something happen with Lincoln Riley, Kirby Smart, Urban Meyer, Jimbo Fisher or Ryan Day.
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Very few college coaches have been able to have success in the pros.
 
Texian said:
Well I have always been an advocate of trying to go with proven winners. I don't see how you can make that happen in the NFL so I would try to make something happen with Lincoln Riley, Kirby Smart, Urban Meyer, Jimbo Fisher or Ryan Day.
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And this is where we go our separate ways. "I don't see how you can make that happen in the NFL so ...." Because it is a different game. It's the professional game. These great college coaches want nothing to do with the NFL because they're neither great nor in control - to get paid the same amount for minor roster control, and get their butts kicked doesn't seem like fun.
 
Texian said:
I'm not sold that Bieniemy is that guy. He interviewed for (3) HC positions with the Jets, Giants and Panthers. If he was that guy I can't imagine why he wasn't hired by one those teams. Bieniemey is hot right now because KC won the Super Bowl and Mahomes is the real deal. IMO Mahomes would be Mahomes with or without Eric. Reminds me of all of the Belichick assistants who were hired right after Pats won a Super Bowls and all have failed miserably. Cowher may have been that guy like Royal and Harbaugh. Pittsburgh has a knack for getting their HCs right.
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Giants - Joe Judge. I would throw flowers and sing hymns to keep O'Brien if I had known before this post that Judge was an option - seriously wtf Giants.
Jets - Adam Gase. It's the Jets.
Panthers - throw a dart, any poster here has spent more time in an NFL stadium than Rhule.

We had the opportunity to sign Kyle Shanahan ... and didn't. Bad franchises have an opportunity and miss - like the 3 you mentioned. Like us. Our entire coaching staff won a Superbowl in Denver, as O'Brien was outsmarting our former talent. Bienemy didn't get signed and won a Superbowl.
 
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JB said:
When?
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When? The same time as the other 31 teams. 2014 would've been quite obvious - dad retires and Kyle has a solid coaching staff to draw from (2015 more so). 2017 being more obvious after carrying the Falcons' offense to the Superbowl.
 
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They never had to trade Hopkins especially with the new cba the players got suckered into. The fact as you pointed out, they took back 11m in David Johnson, paid Cobb 9m, Erick Murry 6m , and Whitney 14m. The most foul point of the trade is all the other wrs who were traded and not as good as Hopkins went for a 1st rd pick. They should've gotten a 1st rd pick this year and a 4th at least and not take back Johnson who was going to get cut. I honestly like Cooks, he's been productive every year he's been in the NFL except last year. Pairing Cooks with Hopkins made more sense than getting rid of one for the other. Or ,as I stated, for 10m, why not get Robbie Anderson vs Randall Cobb?
 
Scooter said:
When? The same time as the other 31 teams. 2014 would've been quite obvious - dad retires and Kyle has a solid coaching staff to draw from (2015 more so). 2017 being more obvious after carrying the Falcons' offense to the Superbowl.
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Yeah 2014 would have been possible, but with Washington coming off a 3-13 season he was hardly a hot commodity.
 
Speedy said:
Honestly, how was OB a hot commodity? Because he went 15-9 at Penn St? Because they were 63rd and 69th out of 124 in points scored while there? If that was the hot commodity back then, then the cupboard must have been pretty bare.
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It was bare. And you're ignoring the fact that Shanahan was employed by Wash. until 2 days before OB was hired
 
JB said:
It was bare. And you're ignoring the fact that Shanahan was employed by Wash. until 2 days before OB was hired
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I’m not ignoring anything. I honestly don’t remember the landscape then, nor do I really care now. I just can’t figure out how OB got to the top of the hot choices at the time.
 
Speedy said:
I’m not ignoring anything. I honestly don’t remember the landscape then, nor do I really care now. I just can’t figure out how OB got to the top of the hot choices at the time.
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Sorry, I was directing that comment to Scooter ( I was thinking i was still conversing with him) and didn't notice you had stepped in. OB was a hot commodity (he was offered a HC position the year before), I'm not sure why
 
JB said:
Sorry, I was directing that comment to Scooter ( I was thinking i was still conversing with him) and didn't notice you had stepped in. OB was a hot commodity (he was offered a HC position the year before), I'm not sure why
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Dont worry, they are Aggies and still have a hard on for all things Kubiak and decided 1 love isn't enough so the other joined in on the Kubiak love fest.

BTW, that's 2 SB's Lil Shanny has blown and he's not doing so good this yr. Looks like Miami blew them out yesterday.
 
Speedy said:
Honestly, how was OB a hot commodity? Because he went 15-9 at Penn St? Because they were 63rd and 69th out of 124 in points scored while there? If that was the hot commodity back then, then the cupboard must have been pretty bare.
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When he was hired, I was excited that he would bring the Patriots' offense, but was concerned that besides his short stay with the Patriots, he didn't have any prior NFL experience. When he got his opportunity as QB coach and then OC, Brady was already approaching 10 years as a successful QB. With Brady and Belichick in the room, they needed a seamless transition from McDaniels to O'Brien and I doubt he had to make any significant changes to Patriots' playbook. Even in that shouting match with Brady, you see Brady is telling him, "I know" and "no shhh*".

Coming from the Patriots, I think O'Brien had many supporters in the media who promoted the QB whisperer image. By all accounts, he did a good job at Penn State and was considered a future NFL HC. In actuality, he never fielded a top 50 college offense, never developed a young NFL QB and his NFL experience was calling plays for a HOF QB who already had 10 years of experience and the best HC in NFL history at his side.

I guess this would be similar to "born on third base and thinks he hit a triple" complex.
 
Earl34 said:
When he was hired, I was excited that he would bring the Patriots' offense, but was concerned that besides his short stay with the Patriots, he didn't have any prior NFL experience. When he got his opportunity as QB coach and then OC, Brady was already approaching 10 years as a successful QB. With Brady and Belichick in the room, they needed a seamless transition from McDaniels to O'Brien and I doubt he had to make any significant changes to Patriots' playbook. Even in that shouting match with Brady, you see Brady is telling him, "I know" and "no shhh*".

Coming from the Patriots, I think O'Brien had many supporters in the media who promoted the QB whisperer image. By all accounts, he did a good job at Penn State and was considered a future NFL HC. In actuality, he never fielded a top 50 college offense, never developed a young NFL QB and his NFL experience was calling plays for a HOF QB who already had 10 years of experience and the best HC in NFL history at his side.

I guess this would be similar to "born on third base and thinks he hit a triple" complex.
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When he got rid of Fitz to replace him with Hoyer, I knew things would go downhill from there.
 
Earl34 said:
When he was hired, I was excited that he would bring the Patriots' offense, but was concerned that besides his short stay with the Patriots, he didn't have any prior NFL experience. When he got his opportunity as QB coach and then OC, Brady was already approaching 10 years as a successful QB. With Brady and Belichick in the room, they needed a seamless transition from McDaniels to O'Brien and I doubt he had to make any significant changes to Patriots' playbook. Even in that shouting match with Brady, you see Brady is telling him, "I know" and "no shhh*".

Coming from the Patriots, I think O'Brien had many supporters in the media who promoted the QB whisperer image. By all accounts, he did a good job at Penn State and was considered a future NFL HC. In actuality, he never fielded a top 50 college offense, never developed a young NFL QB and his NFL experience was calling plays for a HOF QB who already had 10 years of experience and the best HC in NFL history at his side.

I guess this would be similar to "born on third base and thinks he hit a triple" complex.
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I wasn’t excited about the hire but was curious to see the New England 2.0 .
 
Scooter said:
And this is where we go our separate ways. "I don't see how you can make that happen in the NFL so ...." Because it is a different game. It's the professional game. These great college coaches want nothing to do with the NFL because they're neither great nor in control - to get paid the same amount for minor roster control, and get their butts kicked doesn't seem like fun.
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Please tell where you will find a proven head coach with a winning pedigree in the NFL that Cal McNair would be able to hire. No self respecting head coach with a proven winning track record is going to agree to be the Texans head coach.

It's a different game but it is not, why are so many NFL teams adopting high profile college offenses?

"These great college coaches want nothing to do with the NFL because they're neither great nor in control" - Supposition, conjecture, opinion not fact.
 
Scooter said:
Giants - Joe Judge. I would throw flowers and sing hymns to keep O'Brien if I had known before this post that Judge was an option - seriously wtf Giants.
Jets - Adam Gase. It's the Jets.
Panthers - throw a dart, any poster here has spent more time in an NFL stadium than Rhule.

We had the opportunity to sign Kyle Shanahan ... and didn't. Bad franchises have an opportunity and miss - like the 3 you mentioned. Like us. Our entire coaching staff won a Superbowl in Denver, as O'Brien was outsmarting our former talent. Bienemy didn't get signed and won a Superbowl.
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My point being that if Bieniemy was everything people are saying about him since O'Brien got fired there is no way 3 teams would've passed on him as their new head coach. Of course I've to admit I was not sitting in on those HC interviews.
 
Earl34 said:
I thought the lessons learned from the Chip Kelly and Eagles experiment was enough to convince NFL owners that unless your HC is Bill Belichick, it's a bad idea to have your HC as GM or with so much control over personnel. Obviously, the Texans heard "Bill" and didn't listen to the warning.
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The Peter Principle with O'Brien actually started in New England. He was promoted to OC from QB coach but failed pretty miserably, and Belichick immediately brought back McDaniels.

That's where the career spin began. Somehow that short stint where he couldn't stick at OC in NE made him a "hot commodity". Yet he somehow ended up in Penn State, which was a terrible job at the time, and he did a mediocre job there, yet tricked the McNairs into thinking he was even more of a "hot commodity".

Somehow he continued to convince the McNairs that he should also be the GM.
 
TheKDog said:
The Peter Principle with O'Brien actually started in New England. He was promoted to OC from QB coach but failed pretty miserably, and Belichick immediately brought back McDaniels.

That's where the career spin began. Somehow that short stint where he couldn't stick at OC in NE made him a "hot commodity". Yet he somehow ended up in Penn State, which was a terrible job at the time, and he did a mediocre job there, yet tricked the McNairs into thinking he was even more of a "hot commodity".

Somehow he continued to convince the McNairs that he should also be the GM.
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A terrible job?

They had an all time great offense and went 17-1 that yr. Look I know you dont like BOB and it was time to move on but making things up to suit your narrative isn't a good look.
 
TheKDog said:
That's where the career spin began. Somehow that short stint where he couldn't stick at OC in NE made him a "hot commodity". Yet he somehow ended up in Penn State, which was a terrible job at the time, and he did a mediocre job there, yet tricked the McNairs into thinking he was even more of a "hot commodity".
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I think you're remembering things incorrectly. They didn't get rid of O'Brien, O'Brien left them for the HC gig at Penn State.
 
Texian said:
My point being that if Bieniemy was everything people are saying about him since O'Brien got fired there is no way 3 teams would've passed on him as their new head coach. Of course I've to admit I was not sitting in on those HC interviews.
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This is ridiculous, teams pass on good coaches all the time. Especially bad organizations. They make repeat mistakes.
 
amazing80 said:
This is ridiculous, teams pass on good coaches all the time. Especially bad organizations. They make repeat mistakes.
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I agree with Texian on this one.


Definitely bring Bieniemy in for an interview, but don't have your mind made up that he's ready. Ask the hard questions & see where it goes from there.

Giants, Panthers, & Jets saw the same stuff we saw last year. They brought him in for an interview they all chose to go in a different direction. Why?
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree with Texian on this one.


Definitely bring Bieniemy in for an interview, but don't have your mind made up that he's ready. Ask the hard questions & see where it goes from there.

Giants, Panthers, & Jets saw the same stuff we saw last year. They brought him in for an interview they all chose to go in a different direction. Why?
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No one said to give up the search and bring him in. The only one drawing a hard line in the sand is Texian who is suggesting we don't even consider him
 
steelbtexan said:
A terrible job?

They had an all time great offense and went 17-1 that yr. Look I know you dont like BOB and it was time to move on but making things up to suit your narrative isn't a good look.
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What? I think you are embellishing BOB's resume. He was not the OC when they went 17-1 in 2007. In fact, 2007 was O'Brien's first year with the Patriots and he was an offensive assistant. Not the OC or even the QB coach.

"Making things up to suit your narrative".
 
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thunderkyss said:
There were people who were stuck on Capers until Kubiak showed himself to be better.

As soon as we get us a coach who can win against the good teams... we'll all forget about Kubiak.
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Nah, I will never forget, even though I'm not an Aggie.
Kubiak runs a proven offensive system, with which you can save draft and capital resources to spend on the defense.
I always said they fired the wrong guy and I won't forget at least 7 years of wasted opportunity and counting.
 
I AM DEAD WRONG ABOUT THE TEXANS. From J.K., of Katy, Texas: “Big Texans fan. You wrote in your column that Jack Easterby was ‘smart and authoritative’ and implied he could run the search for a new coach. We don’t want that. What has Easterby ever done in football to deserve to run a coaching search? God help us if he’s our GM.”

Yes, I said Easterby is smart and authoritative, because he is. Does he deserve to be an NFL GM? Probably not, and by the way, I’m not even sure Easterby wants to be a GM. In any case, my gut feeling is owner Cal McNair will hire both a coach and non-Easterby GM. Does Easterby deserve to run the coaching search? I am dubious about that, except that I believe he’s quite smart, learned a lot from working under Bill Belichick, and knows the qualities a coach needs to succeed. Easterby’s problem, as I see it, is that he’s basically been a shadow exec under Bill O’Brien in Houston for a couple of years. All the fans see is someone who’s been at the right hand of O’Brien as the GM/coach made two trades, Laremy Tunsil and DeAndre Hopkins, they hate. I think the organization needs to expose Easterby to the public more so the fans can make a decision for themselves whether they think he’ll help Houston build a winner.
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profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

FMIA Week 5: Rescheduled Games, Fired Coaches and Pain in Dallas—A Look Back at the NFL's Newsy Sunday - ProFootballTalk

A frenetic day in the life of the NFL, 2020:5:45 a.m. ET, Long Island, N.Y.ESPN’s Adam Schefter, in the bathroom near his bedroom, texts contacts or talks softly, not wanting to disturb his sleeping dogs or wife. He’s trying to find out early COVID-related news before he jumps in the shower to...
profootballtalk.nbcsports.com profootballtalk.nbcsports.com
 
76Texan said:
I'm not ubderstanding your reasoning.
In my eyes, BOB has always been a below-average HC/OC.

1. The most telling fact is his failure to develop players on offense.
There's such a thing call a cap space.
When you can't evaluate prospects and develop them, enjoying the cheap wages of the rookie contract in the process, it will eventually hurt your team.
Examples: Chris Myers, Mike Briesel, Arian Foster, Ben Jones, OD, Glover Quin, A J Bouye, D J Reader, etc.

2. BOB's early records were fools' gold as he rode the coat tails of those players as well as the defense, with guys like JJ Watt, Mercilus, KJackson, JJo, and so on.
It was also a time when the AFC was weak.
The Titans won a total of 5 games in 2 years.
The Jaguars have been a mess (except for the one year) with Bortles.
The Colts only had a 100% healthy Andrew Luck for one year (2014).

3. He sells out future resources from draft picks to cap space to acquire more offensive players in the last few years.

.......

The lesson should be for owners to look at the details before hiring, perform an internal audit/eveluation yearly by an independent source (they do that for their business side; they need to do the same on the football side).
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I would insist on an independent third party evaluation.
 
Last time a search firm was used to find our coach:



2013-2014: Bill O'Brien, Lovie Smith, Ken Whisenhunt, Wade Phillips
2005-2006: Gary Kubiak, Pat Hill, Kippy Brown, Jerry Gray, Scott Linehan, Al Saunders, Cam Cameron

https://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/12/lovie-smith-interviews-for-texans-coaching-position/
https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-find-a-front-runner-for-coaching-job-1908404.php

Counting Kubiak, the Texans have interviewed seven candidates, including Fresno State coach Pat Hill on Monday. Because he's a college coach who is concerned with recruiting, Hill politely declined comment.

The other candidates were Texans receivers coach Kippy Brown, Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Jerry Gray, Miami Dolphins offensive coordinator Scott Linehan, Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator Al Saunders and San Diego Chargers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron.

The Texans were interested in Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz but were not able to schedule an interview with him.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree with Texian on this one.


Definitely bring Bieniemy in for an interview, but don't have your mind made up that he's ready. Ask the hard questions & see where it goes from there.

Giants, Panthers, & Jets saw the same stuff we saw last year. They brought him in for an interview they all chose to go in a different direction. Why?
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It has been reported that Mike Zimmer did terrible interviews and was passed up a few times for HC positions because of it.

Not saying he is great, but I would put him in the above average ranks of HCs that was long over due a shot as HC.

He is the type of HC I would take a chance on, but a bad interview may make me pass.

He is just an example.
 
lol Almost two decades in the industry and Cal takes the expected weak corporate approach to find guys to run his franchise. Now with the added layer of "character coach" because. . . why, exactly?

Well, as long as they can win more much-heralded division "championships", the golden goose that Bob created can keep selling merchandise and season tickets, and that's all that really matters to run a very profitable business.
 
I wonder how many TV's were busted in the OB house yesterday? I could just see him sitting there and screaming, "quit passing the ball you pass happy freaks" as his lower lip is quivering and just before he heaves a bowling ball through the screen. Unfortunately, he had destroyed the TV's before he got to see how Kelly/Watson had used the pass to setup the run and David J almost got 100 yards while killing the clock
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I wonder how many TV's were busted in the OB house yesterday? I could just see him sitting there and screaming, "quit passing the ball you pass happy freaks" as his lower lip is quivering and just before he heaves a bowling ball through the screen. Unfortunately, he had destroyed the TV's before he got to see how Kelly/Watson had used the pass to setup the run and David J almost got 100 yards while killing the clock
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"You're supposed run behind the Center!!" when OB sees David Johnson run off tackle for a huge gain.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I wonder how many TV's were busted in the OB house yesterday? I could just see him sitting there and screaming, "quit passing the ball you pass happy freaks" as his lower lip is quivering and just before he heaves a bowling ball through the screen. Unfortunately, he had destroyed the TV's before he got to see how Kelly/Watson had used the pass to setup the run and David J almost got 100 yards while killing the clock
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Let it go
 
Double Barrel said:
lol Almost two decades in the industry and Cal takes the expected weak corporate approach to find guys to run his franchise. Now with the added layer of "character coach" because. . . why, exactly?

Well, as long as they can win more much-heralded division "championships", the golden goose that Bob created can keep selling merchandise and season tickets, and that's all that really matters to run a very profitable business.
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Holy ****, the fuckitude of this franchise never abates.
 
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