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Bench or trade DD
- Thread starter Bull Pen 1
- Start date
MorKnolle
All Pro
texan279 said:
I definitely agree. Many starting RBs in the league this year have had injuries because they are carrying the ball too much. Cadillac had four wonderful games early on and then had to sit out a couple weeks. Most of these aren't injuries from a specific play, it's just from wearing them out too much. They said yesterday that Davis is leading the NFL in % of team's total offense, which is commendable for him but we need to give him a break every now and then. Either run something like the Chiefs where Priest goes for two possessions and then sits one out or else just bring him out once every 3-5 plays. He can't keep getting 25-30 carries and 5 catches a game and expect to be healthy for very long. The one positive about him missing yesterday is it showed what we can do when we throw the ball more, and I'd like to see that with Davis coming out of the backfield rather than Wells and then have Johnson, Gaffney, Mathis, and Armstrong at WRs. Bradford had a pretty good game until that last muffed catch but he has been dropping too many balls and I'd like to see us spread the defense more with Mathis' speed in there, then have the sure hands of Gaffney and Armstrong and the overall talent of AJ together on the field for once.
texan279
Hall of Fame
MorKnolle said:
Nice post. Also with rotating our RB's, we could go from a quick cutting RB (DD and Morency), to more of a pounding RB (Wells) and change the pace a bit during a game. The announcers yesterday kept talking about how much of a big bruising RB Wells is, but when I think of a big bruising RB first thing I think of is Jerome Bettis. I guess though compared to DD and Morency Wells is a "bruising" RB. Wells has impressed me all season but really impressed me yesterday. He didn't do anything out of this world, but the effort he gave on his TD run was awesome. I think our RB stable is becoming one of the brighter spots of the team.
GP
Go Texans!
Yeah, the Lions should have benched or traded Barry Sanders, too.
That guy tore it up...but he kept them from being EXPLOSIVE.
Give me a break here.
We've got an o line that is inconsistent in pass blocking, thus limiting our QB who I think we are all beginning to have doubts about at this point, and DD is the only thing we have in terms of consistent productivity from one week to the next.
The stats show DD accounts for (drum roll please) approximately 50% of our TOTAL offensive production. If anything, he needs to get paid a bonus each Sunday for keeping us from getting skunked each week. He keeps our weak defense rested by churning out about 3 yards per carry (unless we do that stupid run audible), he breaks tackles and keeps the chains moving, and it ain't his fault if our o line and our QB end a good drive with either a sack, a fumble by Carr, or Carr throwing it into the stands/running into sacks/running out of bounds when Carr DOES have time.
DD and Dunta Robinson are probably the most purely talented individuals on our team, and their desire exceeds Carr, as well. Period.
DD was skipped by a lot of teams in the draft. He was supposed to be a third down back, and look at what he's accomplished.
That's about the height of ignorance to post something like this. If the guy plays badly or acquires a bad attitude, please go ahead and rip him. But to lay this sort of thing at his feet, saying that him being out of the game opens up the offense, is absurd. Boredom has set in on the mesage boards, and now we're inventing new people to blame.
We played a zombie-entranced Jags team the first half, and then those guys came out and HANDLED us with ease in the second half. Their defense is weak, and without a fluke missed-tackle situation on the Bradford TD...we'd have lost by 2 TDs.
To clarify:
That's about the height of ignorance to post something like this. If the guy plays badly or acquires a bad attitude, please go ahead and rip him. But to lay this sort of thing at his feet, saying that him being out of the game opens up the offense, is absurd. Boredom has set in on the mesage boards, and now we're inventing new people to blame.
That guy tore it up...but he kept them from being EXPLOSIVE.
Give me a break here.
We've got an o line that is inconsistent in pass blocking, thus limiting our QB who I think we are all beginning to have doubts about at this point, and DD is the only thing we have in terms of consistent productivity from one week to the next.
The stats show DD accounts for (drum roll please) approximately 50% of our TOTAL offensive production. If anything, he needs to get paid a bonus each Sunday for keeping us from getting skunked each week. He keeps our weak defense rested by churning out about 3 yards per carry (unless we do that stupid run audible), he breaks tackles and keeps the chains moving, and it ain't his fault if our o line and our QB end a good drive with either a sack, a fumble by Carr, or Carr throwing it into the stands/running into sacks/running out of bounds when Carr DOES have time.
DD and Dunta Robinson are probably the most purely talented individuals on our team, and their desire exceeds Carr, as well. Period.
DD was skipped by a lot of teams in the draft. He was supposed to be a third down back, and look at what he's accomplished.
That's about the height of ignorance to post something like this. If the guy plays badly or acquires a bad attitude, please go ahead and rip him. But to lay this sort of thing at his feet, saying that him being out of the game opens up the offense, is absurd. Boredom has set in on the mesage boards, and now we're inventing new people to blame.
We played a zombie-entranced Jags team the first half, and then those guys came out and HANDLED us with ease in the second half. Their defense is weak, and without a fluke missed-tackle situation on the Bradford TD...we'd have lost by 2 TDs.
To clarify:
That's about the height of ignorance to post something like this. If the guy plays badly or acquires a bad attitude, please go ahead and rip him. But to lay this sort of thing at his feet, saying that him being out of the game opens up the offense, is absurd. Boredom has set in on the mesage boards, and now we're inventing new people to blame.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Jaaaaaannnnnnee, get me off this crazy thing!
HomeBred_Texan
Veteran
Well I will say it...MorKnolle said:
DD is a back up RB at best. We will draft R Bush and the running game will open up. DD does NOT have the skills it takes to be a 1500+ yd runner a year. He has a big heart, but lacks in some skills. He is not "one of the best" players on the team by any means....
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
gpshafer_1976 said:
Sorry man, the DD to Barry Sanders comparison just isn't working for me. They aren't the same kind of player, not even close. DD has nice stats because of an over-reliance by the coaches and now Carr on the dump offs. This isn't DDs fault but we need a more diversified offense if we're ever going to get anywhere. This means less of the offense through DD. If he was such a dynamic player, that after getting 50-60% of the offense we probably probably shouldn't be 1-7 right now.
HomeBred_Texan said:
DomDavis is the one player on the team that is getting the most of his physical talent. In that sense, he is one the handful of the best players on the team. As pure physical talent, he is a borderline starter, but he is productive partly because of the system, moreso because of that heart you mentioned.
see now your getting it ledzep. We bench DD and force the offense to work without him for a few games, then bring him in and see how it all works with him. Benching DD is a good thing for our offense as it allows Carr and the offensive players to quite using its favorite crutch, DD.
It isn't that DD doesn't deserve to play, it is the offense does not deserve to utilize him so much.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
ledzeppelin269 said:
I agree DD is no Sanders, but we do not pay Dom Davis Barry Sander's level money. We expect that delta in production to come elsewhere, but that is another thread.
MorKnolle
All Pro
HomeBred_Texan said:
He is not one of the fastest few RBs in the league, but he is very solid. He is quick, he recognizes holes well, he catches the ball well, and he runs hard and plays with a lot of heart. In my mind he reminds me somewhat of Emmitt Smith. Before everyone cries about that comparison I will admit that as an overall RB Emmitt was better, but physically the two are very similar, not to mention DD is only in his third year and playing with a less complete team and a much worse OL.
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:
Well, this whole "reduce DDs role" argument has been going on for awhile now. I remember Fiddy as one of the early campaigners - but in any case, my main argument is against the people that think the solution is trading him.
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
You know as nice as I think it would be to have Bush and DD in the backfield for the Texans I really dont see it happening. Well right now at least, by the end of the season i could be wrong, but we have DD, Wells, Morency, and I think Hollings (does he even still play running back for the Texans). Four running backs, I would agree that the Texans should bench Davis more so they can evaluate the other running backs and see if they're keepers. Morency could still develop into a good running back but could he become good enough to split time with DD I hope so. Wells is a solid backup, I would hate to see him go. Hollings I remember seeing him run well a long long time ago, have no idea where he could be right now. I was surprised yesterday that Hollings was on the field but i didnt really see how he did, but the way I see it one of them would have to go in order to draft Bush. In regards to DD being traded no way that would be crazy I would not want to see that happen. Thems my 2 cents.HomeBred_Texan said:
this is just stupid. the passing game stinks all the time, and it is a simple matter of having no time. carr has time to get one read and then dump against most defenses. that dump happens to be DD (who is an above average back overall). that's why johnson has been struggling this year in the previous games. defenses focus on him, leaving DD with good stats still because he's the dump. give carr a chance and he'll spread it around.
Carr spread it around just fine in the Jags game, hence the bench DD idea. Carr and DD shouldn't be on the field together. It makes Carr do his job when DD is on the bench, which is a good thing. Cause nothing else seems to be making him earn his paycheck.
Bench DD and make Carr a better QB first. Then we can bring DD back in and have a legit 1-2 punch, IMHO.
Bench DD and make Carr a better QB first. Then we can bring DD back in and have a legit 1-2 punch, IMHO.
HomeBred_Texan
Veteran
Well the Texans will either draft Bush or Leinart. I think Bush would be best right now because we have not had a great running back since Earl Campbell. I hope they don't mess this up....dat_boy_yec said:
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
edo783 said:
DD is inconsistant more than horrible--some great plays and then whiffs. Really a problem all our RB's have. DD is about 65% ok/ 35% bad. Wells more 80%/20% and Morency in limited exposure (I would guess he will get better with more practice) 20%/80%.
run-david-run
All Pro
can you read what you are writting? becasue the coaches are calling too many running plays we should sit the running back? that is without doubt the dumbest thing anyone could say! we had wells in there and we still threw a bunch of dumb-offs, the only differance was that we didnt run the ball very well and we got our pro-bowl wide reciver back, hence we had to pass the ball. The only problem we have right here is playcalling. everyone knows we are going to run the ball to the left, and whenever carr calls an audible, eveyone knows its gonna be a run, probably to the left.thegr8fan said:
now, please stop waisting our time with such brainless posts...
run-david-run
All Pro
I really have been stuned by some of the posts I have seen on this MB about Dom Davis. Mostly the arguments range from 1. we have a better offense when he is not in the game or 2. he is a back-up running back and no better.
First off, the first argument is plain stupid. Almost every game we have played with DD has lead to other defenses bringing 8 man fronts. That means that if the coaching staff is bright enough to realize we have single coverage on the recivers we would have a much better passing attack. He is also keyed on during the passing games as other teams have reconginzed he can hurt them catching the ball. While at times it seems we run too many dump-offs, I would preffer a 6 yd catch to a 6 yd sack. Ultimatley, DD could be used far more effectivley than he is being used right now, giving him less carries, esspecially when it is obvious we are running. Because this offense is so basic we lean on DD and he gets picked on by other defenses. If we get protection enough to throw downfield, DD will get a lot more holes and a lot more yds, maybe than some people can see his value.
Secondly, the thoeory that DD is a backup is plain stupid. Just becasue a player is not taken in the 1/2 rd. in the draft does not mean he is a backup. Last year he had practically the same amount of yds from scrimage (runing and catching) as LaDannian Tomlinson (1700+ yds). While this does not mean he is as good as LT, that also means he is a top 10, probably top 7 RB in this league. All the while playing behind the most limited offense in the league.
Dont know if this has acctually had any affect on those of you determined to balme someone other than the coaches for our crappy record, but I hope that you at least consider my post before spewing off about DD again..
First off, the first argument is plain stupid. Almost every game we have played with DD has lead to other defenses bringing 8 man fronts. That means that if the coaching staff is bright enough to realize we have single coverage on the recivers we would have a much better passing attack. He is also keyed on during the passing games as other teams have reconginzed he can hurt them catching the ball. While at times it seems we run too many dump-offs, I would preffer a 6 yd catch to a 6 yd sack. Ultimatley, DD could be used far more effectivley than he is being used right now, giving him less carries, esspecially when it is obvious we are running. Because this offense is so basic we lean on DD and he gets picked on by other defenses. If we get protection enough to throw downfield, DD will get a lot more holes and a lot more yds, maybe than some people can see his value.
Secondly, the thoeory that DD is a backup is plain stupid. Just becasue a player is not taken in the 1/2 rd. in the draft does not mean he is a backup. Last year he had practically the same amount of yds from scrimage (runing and catching) as LaDannian Tomlinson (1700+ yds). While this does not mean he is as good as LT, that also means he is a top 10, probably top 7 RB in this league. All the while playing behind the most limited offense in the league.
Dont know if this has acctually had any affect on those of you determined to balme someone other than the coaches for our crappy record, but I hope that you at least consider my post before spewing off about DD again..
GP
Go Texans!
I have a crazy idea:
Maybe the problem is CARR?
If Carr got into a groove against the Browns (with AJ on the bench), spreading the ball around to Gaffney and other WRs...when previously he was locking onto AJ and refused to find other WRs...
And if we scored MORE points with DD on the bench because Carr could not dump it off to DD...thus being forced to go elsewhere with the ball...
...Then maybe--just maybe--it's Carr's fault for not being able to do the same blasted thing with (GASP!) both AJ and DD in the game!?
I mean, if this guy is an NFL starter at QB, getting fat paychecks and plenty of playing time on the field and on the modeling runways, and yet it takes players being OUT of the game for him to overcome the AJ-DD crutch...then the guy is definitely a wooden nickel.
And for you guys to be so bored with the team right now that you're even giving honest and serious consideration to this whole idea is very disturbing, IMO. Funny, but oddly disturbing at the same time.
Kind of like having a dream about swimming in your grandmother's underwear through a river of chicken noodle soup...and an alien awaits you on the banks of the river, to wisk you away for an inter-planetary wedding feast in the Drazaar sector of the Grahkoom galaxy.
Now THAT is disturbing.
Maybe the problem is CARR?
If Carr got into a groove against the Browns (with AJ on the bench), spreading the ball around to Gaffney and other WRs...when previously he was locking onto AJ and refused to find other WRs...
And if we scored MORE points with DD on the bench because Carr could not dump it off to DD...thus being forced to go elsewhere with the ball...
...Then maybe--just maybe--it's Carr's fault for not being able to do the same blasted thing with (GASP!) both AJ and DD in the game!?
I mean, if this guy is an NFL starter at QB, getting fat paychecks and plenty of playing time on the field and on the modeling runways, and yet it takes players being OUT of the game for him to overcome the AJ-DD crutch...then the guy is definitely a wooden nickel.
And for you guys to be so bored with the team right now that you're even giving honest and serious consideration to this whole idea is very disturbing, IMO. Funny, but oddly disturbing at the same time.
Kind of like having a dream about swimming in your grandmother's underwear through a river of chicken noodle soup...and an alien awaits you on the banks of the river, to wisk you away for an inter-planetary wedding feast in the Drazaar sector of the Grahkoom galaxy.
Now THAT is disturbing.
right. so what do they know when DD isn't in there? nothing, thats right, we actually confuse the opposing team with DD NOT in there. They cant 'key in' on him either on a run or a pass.
and yes I can read what I write, but thanks for asking.
and gpshafer, I think your starting to catch on.
And I ain't talking about your dream either, no matter how disturbing it is.
Scooter
Funky
this is silly. the ones bashing DD are the same ones defending carr. the saying yall are using "how would manning or brady do behind this line?" also applies to the RB position. how would priest or Alexander do behind this line? they'd be 1000 yard rushers, sure. so is DD. what would DD do behind the steeler's line? or KC's? everyone remembers DD saying he was going to rush for 2,000 yards after his rookie season. anyone think he couldnt do it behind denver's? more often than not, DD is hit first BEHIND the LOS and is still percieved by the rest of the league as our biggest threat on offense. what if he were with san diego? would he be looked at in the same regard as LT because of his ability to run AND catch with the best of em? again, this is silly.
i loved grid's post. lets bench dunta because he dominates his aspect of the game and makes it obvious how bad the other side is doing. that is exactly what the topic of this thread is saying. bench the top player because the other side isnt holding up to their end of the bargain.
and as always ... it's because of capers + crew. dom has had ONE winning season in 8 years. you do the math.
i loved grid's post. lets bench dunta because he dominates his aspect of the game and makes it obvious how bad the other side is doing. that is exactly what the topic of this thread is saying. bench the top player because the other side isnt holding up to their end of the bargain.
and as always ... it's because of capers + crew. dom has had ONE winning season in 8 years. you do the math.
TexAntagonise
Practice Squad
I second this motion!chuckm said:
I think Im going to quit my job so I wont be so dependant on a steady income.
outofhnd
Rookie
This is a great topic really...
Maybe our passing game looked a little better because we had AJ Back? I mean a receiver that actually getrs open and catches balls can usually make a passing game better... I know that what im saying is sheer lunacy...
The way we played without DD last week makes me excited about his return because he can be more of an impact. I think AJ's return did more for the passing game success than DD's absence.. However I do like wells back there picking up blitzers...
DD isnt goin anywhere nor do I want him too Morency Doesnt hit the hole he dances thru it, & Wells isnt a feature NFL back.
Maybe our passing game looked a little better because we had AJ Back? I mean a receiver that actually getrs open and catches balls can usually make a passing game better... I know that what im saying is sheer lunacy...
The way we played without DD last week makes me excited about his return because he can be more of an impact. I think AJ's return did more for the passing game success than DD's absence.. However I do like wells back there picking up blitzers...
DD isnt goin anywhere nor do I want him too Morency Doesnt hit the hole he dances thru it, & Wells isnt a feature NFL back.
Bull Pen 1
All Pro
AJ was in the game the first 3 or 4 game and how many passes did he catch while DD was in the game. Like I said before DD is Carr's crutch. Without DD Carr actually makes plays to the WR and a better game.
I hate the coninuing philosophy of "Bench so-and-so because Carr doesn't know how to play with them". "Bench AJ cause Carr locks onto him too much." "Bench DD cause he dumps off to him too much." If you really think that, than bench Carr. This might be a crazy idea, but I like the thought of having the best players you have on the field at all times. :brickwall (Can you feel the sarcasm on that?) To say that we should bench our most reliable player on offense is totally STUPID.
Do you ever think that the reason Carr has a bad habit of dumping the ball off is because he doesn't trust his OL? And do you think putting Wells in there would make much difference at all? I sure don't. And do you think that Carr is so bad that we have to bench our best players players before him? If you really think the likes of AJ and DD is a hinderance on Carr and the team, than Carr shouldn't be benched, he should be fired and never play in the NFL ever again. :brickwall Now for me, I'm a Carr supporter and I am also a proponent of having the best players available on the field when you can. :brickwall
As for the reasons why Carr had a better game at Jacksonville could be contributed to a number of different factors, not because of DD's absence. 1) The Oline actually had a pretty good game until Wand came out and stunk it up on our last drive. Carr actually had some time in the pocket for a change. 2) AJ was back, which make our recieving core a whole lot better. 3) Carr STILL threw to his running backs a lot during the game. It's just that our recievers helped open up the field for us so Wells could pick up some decent yardage. No one complains when throwing to the RB actually works do they? Every time Wells has started over DD, Carr has still thrown to him many times. It doesn't matter who is in at RB.
What in the world do you guys want? A crappy RB in the backfield so that Carr can start throwing to his recievers? :brickwall Honestly, if you want to stop Carr from dumping it off, you have to start max protecting him with the RB so Carr has enough time to throw the ball. Unfortunately, DD doesn't have the size or skill to pick up blitzing linebackers or lineman. Now THAT would be a legit reason to bench DD. But that's not how we run our offense. Our runningbacks don't help pass protect, they go out for the safety valve. Even with a big RB like Wells who looks like he could pass block pretty well, he still goes out for the pass. So if we do not use schemes where RBs help pass protect, than DD is our guy until we get someone better.
Do you ever think that the reason Carr has a bad habit of dumping the ball off is because he doesn't trust his OL? And do you think putting Wells in there would make much difference at all? I sure don't. And do you think that Carr is so bad that we have to bench our best players players before him? If you really think the likes of AJ and DD is a hinderance on Carr and the team, than Carr shouldn't be benched, he should be fired and never play in the NFL ever again. :brickwall Now for me, I'm a Carr supporter and I am also a proponent of having the best players available on the field when you can. :brickwall
As for the reasons why Carr had a better game at Jacksonville could be contributed to a number of different factors, not because of DD's absence. 1) The Oline actually had a pretty good game until Wand came out and stunk it up on our last drive. Carr actually had some time in the pocket for a change. 2) AJ was back, which make our recieving core a whole lot better. 3) Carr STILL threw to his running backs a lot during the game. It's just that our recievers helped open up the field for us so Wells could pick up some decent yardage. No one complains when throwing to the RB actually works do they? Every time Wells has started over DD, Carr has still thrown to him many times. It doesn't matter who is in at RB.
What in the world do you guys want? A crappy RB in the backfield so that Carr can start throwing to his recievers? :brickwall Honestly, if you want to stop Carr from dumping it off, you have to start max protecting him with the RB so Carr has enough time to throw the ball. Unfortunately, DD doesn't have the size or skill to pick up blitzing linebackers or lineman. Now THAT would be a legit reason to bench DD. But that's not how we run our offense. Our runningbacks don't help pass protect, they go out for the safety valve. Even with a big RB like Wells who looks like he could pass block pretty well, he still goes out for the pass. So if we do not use schemes where RBs help pass protect, than DD is our guy until we get someone better.
Bull Pen 1
All Pro
Andre Johnson returned to the field for the Texans on Sunday after missing three games with a pulled calf muscle. He finished the contest with nine catches for 91 yards.
Johnson, who was expected by many to have a breakout season, has just 19 catches on the year for 167 yards and no touchdowns.
Now:
DD out of the game and AJ catches 9 passes in one game.
DD in the game and AJ catches 10 passes in 4 games.
This is jusr one example.
Lets see what happens this weekend.
Johnson, who was expected by many to have a breakout season, has just 19 catches on the year for 167 yards and no touchdowns.
Now:
DD out of the game and AJ catches 9 passes in one game.
DD in the game and AJ catches 10 passes in 4 games.
This is jusr one example.
Lets see what happens this weekend.
I like the way your thinking phan1. But every time that suggestion gets put on here it is met with even more vehemence than benching DD ideas.
Basically I think Carr hasn't developed or played to his full potential because he uses DD, heavily, to bail him out. When DD isn't in the game Carr is forced to 'be all he can be'. Now if Carr ever matures enough to do this WITH DD in the game, then that would be great. But right now he is still using the training wheels, DD, and won't grow up enough to ride the big bike without training wheels. So hey, sometimes you just gotta take the training wheels off and give them a push downhill till they grow up and start riding like a big boy. It's time for Carr's training wheels to come off and him to start growing up and playing with the big boys. Daddy got sent home from his practices, literally, so now lets see if Carr is gonna play like a big boy, or go home to momma and cry about it.