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Ben Tate done for season (Broken Ankle)

thunderkyss said:
See, here's the deal. For me anyway.

There are several guys who would have been fine with it, had we made the play-offs, it doesn't matter if Kubiak had done a better job or not. There were three scenarios in which we could have gone to the playoffs where Kubiak had done nothing different.

If the Colts would have tried for the perfect season.

If the Bengals would have played to win.

By some weird chance, the Raiders beat the 9-7 Baltimore Ravens week 17.

All of those were plausible, and could have happened. I am well aware of all the things that could have happened to make us 8-8 or worse, this isn't about that.

If you're not happy with this team that Kubiak built, then you shouldn't be happy with being 9-7 & sneaking into the play-offs. IMHO, if this is you, then you're just taking your frustrations out on Kubiak, and may not be thinking rationally.

If you are truly not happy with Kubiak, you wouldn't be happy with this team, even if we went to the Super Bowl and won. Same way many people didn't like Terrell Owens, and tried to rationalize that he had nothing to do with getting the Eagles to the Super Bowl.

I truly believe there are people here, who hate Kubiak enough that a Super Bowl wouldn't change their mind about the team. & that is fine, that is their prerogative. Loving the Texans doesn't mean you have to love Kubiak.

Surely those people will flip this, and say there are people who would make excuses for Kubiak if we went 2-14, or anything less than 9-7 in 2010. Just to be clear, I'm not one of those people. I'll be upset if the Texans don't finish 10-6 or better.

I think it is totally possible for this team to finish with 14 wins with this schedule.

9-7 wasn't what I hoped for last season, but it was acceptable for who we were, and all that happened last season. To me. I didn't count on getting swept by the Jags, and I didn't think we would lose both the Jets game and the Cardinals game. Other than that, everything went the way I thought it might.
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Nice post, TK. Rep if it'll let me.

I knew going in that there are some here who have red asses that haven't healed because he was extended. So I know we're going to have to read their crying every single week, win or lose. But for those of us who want to put it behind, and let this new season stand on it's own merits, it will be aggravating.

This might indeed be a fun season watching the team play, but I don't think it's going to be fun around here.
 
Why does this give me horrible flashbacks to Bennie Joppru? Lets hope this Ben can come back from this.
 
Dutchrudder said:
I think they should have gone after Thomas Jones and a RB in the draft, such as Tate. 2 mill this year, 3 next for Jones is peanuts to most teams in the NFL besides the Texans. In an uncapped year, it's a terrible mistake not to bring in a vet presence at a position of eternal weakness for this team. Even if he isn't your #1 or #2 guy, he can bring some experience to a position that is full of young and unproven players.
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Dutch you are on point......I've been wanting to pickup Thomas Jones since the Bears screwed up and released him in favor of Benson.
 
14 wins? This team with this schedule is more likely to lose 14 than win 14.

I really want to know how you come up with that? I mean seriously. I want to know where you see 14 wins.
 
swisher said:
Why does this give me horrible flashbacks to Bennie Joppru? Lets hope this Ben can come back from this.
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Relax dude and stop thinking the worst. Ben got hurt but he was going to be 1/3rd of the running game. I personally think that either Chris Henry or Jerimiah Johnson will be good enough to make the running game better than last year. I just wish Kubiak and Smith would have listened to me and picked up Lagarette Blount as a undrafted free agent along with Tate....then we would have no problems with a stable of young backs...I promise he would have made the loss of Tate a lot easier to deal with.
 
dream_team said:
It's kind of funny how a "Ben Tate injury" thread could lead to Kubiak/Smith/McNair regime sucks.I think Kubiak haters already have their mind set... nothing will change their minds until he wins a SB. If we signed a vet like LT, instead of draft Tate, and LT got injured yesterday, then the haters would blast "didn't he learn anything from the Ahman Green fiasco?".

Like people have been saying, injuries are a part of the game... and most of the time, they're freak accidents. You can't put blame on Kubiak for Tate's injury.
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Pretty much any thread can turn into _____ sucks.
 
Marcus said:
This might indeed be a fun season watching the team play, but I don't think it's going to be fun around here.
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I thoroughly enjoyed every football game, except the opener against the Jets. They were good football games. I would have loved if we won them all. I wanted to win them all. I'm not happy that we didn't win more, but I remember sitting in Reliant, when people would be leaving early in the 4th Qtr, because the game was basically over. They would at least wait for the Texans offensive drive, and if it sputtered and stalled, they would bolt.

Last year, the games were exciting to the very last minute, because we were in a position to win.

Again, my expectations for 2008 was at 11 wins. I'm disappointed we didn't do it. But that was the best football I've seen in Houston in a long, long time.
 
THE NFL said:
14 wins? This team with this schedule is more likely to lose 14 than win 14.

I really want to know how you come up with that? I mean seriously. I want to know where you see 14 wins.
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I truly believe we can beat any team. I don't believe the NFC East will be as competitive as most people believe. I think we'll win between 10 & 14 games.
 
thunderkyss said:
I truly believe we can beat any team. I don't believe the NFC East will be as competitive as most people believe. I think we'll win between 10 & 14 games.
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Thunda has spoken....10 - 14 wins is good enough for me...just want to make the playoffs and get a home game.
 
Has there ever been a team in the history of Houston football that won 14 games? I'd be absolutely stunned if this team manages that, especially with the schedule they face. Nothing I've seen from them so far indicates that they will consistently beat the teams that they are IMO equal to in talent.

I think that the Texans are gonna finish with a winning record, and that this is going to be one of the most frustrating seasons we've had in Houston in years. They'll win some great games, but I really think they are going to have a few heartbreaking games like last year -- the type of losses that really stick with you. We are learning to be a team.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic. I think this is the best Texans team we've ever had, and the best team in Houston since the Run and Shoot days. Realistically though I just haven't seen anything to show how they can be consistent enough to win more than 10 games. If things really go our way I could see 11 or 12 wins, max.
 
thunderkyss said:
I truly believe we can beat any team. I don't believe the NFC East will be as competitive as most people believe. I think we'll win between 10 & 14 games.
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Careful there. Put the koolade DOWN. Take a deep breath.
:D
We'll know a bit better where we are after the next two P/S games. While I'm glad we looked good against the Cards' 1's and 2's the truth is Arizona has issues; namely no more Kurt Warner or Anquan Bolden on offense. No Karlos Dansby on defense. So that Cardinal game was not a true test of where we are against the upper crust of the league. Let's see how we do against the Champs and the media darling Cowpies.
 
ObsiWan said:
Careful there. Put the koolade DOWN. Take a deep breath.
:D
We'll know a bit better where we are after the next two P/S games. While I'm glad we looked good against the Cards' 1's and 2's the truth is Arizona has issues; namely no more Kurt Warner or Anquan Bolden on offense. No Karlos Dansby on defense. So that Cardinal game was not a true test of where we are against the upper crust of the league. Let's see how we do against the Champs and the media darling Cowpies.
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I'm watching the game now, for the first time, so I wrote that before I even saw this game. I've yet to see anything to change my mind.

But you're right, the next two games will tell us alot.
 
Sorry to interrupt you guys by posting about Tate. :pop:

But I just finished replaying the time around the injury. And I keep on asking the question why would the training staff after examination allow him to WALK off the field limping all the way to the bench in obvious severe pain?......not making sure that there would be no weight bearing before definitive diagnosis? Why would they take the chance of making an already significant injury worse before complete radiologic exam? Minimal bone separation due to ligament tear could be further separated with other associated ligaments further traumatized, which may not have otherwise occurred, possibly taking a relatively stable ankle to unstable. This is not to mention possibly taking a potentially present undisplaced fracture and turning it into a displaced fracture and doing further damage? I guess I'm missing something.

Feel free to go back to your other discussions.:texflag:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Sorry to interrupt you guys by posting about Tate. :pop:

But I just finished replaying the time around the injury. And I keep on asking the question why would the training staff after examination allow him to WALK off the field limping all the way to the bench in obvious severe pain?......not making sure that there would be no weight bearing before definitive diagnosis? Why would they take the chance of making an already significant injury worse before complete radiologic exam? Minimal bone separation due to ligament tear could be further separated with other associated ligaments further traumatized, which may not have otherwise occurred, possibly taking a relatively stable ankle to unstable. This is not to mention possibly taking a potentially present undisplaced fracture and turning it into a displaced fracture and doing further damage? I guess I'm missing something.

Feel free to go back to your other discussions.:texflag:
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Folks around here have been questioning the Texans medical staff since Bosseli passed his physical.

:coffee:
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
But I just finished replaying the time around the injury. And I keep on asking the question why would the training staff after examination allow him to WALK off the field limping all the way to the bench in obvious severe pain?
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Following the Texans since their inception, I've reached an uneducated conclusion that this team has one of, if not the, worst medical staffs in the NFL. I base this on observations such as the Boselli fiasco, the Domanick Davis misdiagnosis, the Spencer uncertainty, not informing Kubiak that Schaub could have a serious knee injury and allowing him to stay on the field in Minnesota, and several other cases.

Am I wrong to think this? You may not be in a position to opine on this directly. So if I'm wrong, reply with a single ping. If I'm right, just don't respond to this post at all. That simple.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Sorry to interrupt you guys by posting about Tate. :pop:

But I just finished replaying the time around the injury. And I keep on asking the question why would the training staff after examination allow him to WALK off the field limping all the way to the bench in obvious severe pain?......not making sure that there would be no weight bearing before definitive diagnosis? Why would they take the chance of making an already significant injury worse before complete radiologic exam? Minimal bone separation due to ligament tear could be further separated with other associated ligaments further traumatized, which may not have otherwise occurred, possibly taking a relatively stable ankle to unstable. This is not to mention possibly taking a potentially present undisplaced fracture and turning it into a displaced fracture and doing further damage? I guess I'm missing something.

Feel free to go back to your other discussions.:texflag:
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I was wondering the same thing Jean The boy was in obvious pain and looked like he wanted to collapse. When I saw that I figured the boy was in serious trouble. The Texans medical staff continues to amaze me, in all the wrong ways! Truthfully, I think they need to hire me to give those boys the ULTIMATE in psychological care, lots of grandma TLC!!!:heart: I'd be happy to give um a shoulder to cry on!!
 
I'm not going to say the sky is falling but Texans might also have some kind of Witch Doctor voodoo RB curse in play :voodoo:
 
Lucky said:
Following the Texans since their inception, I've reached an uneducated conclusion that this team has one of, if not the, worst medical staffs in the NFL. I base this on observations such as the Boselli fiasco, the Domanick Davis misdiagnosis, the Spencer uncertainty, not informing Kubiak that Schaub could have a serious knee injury and allowing him to stay on the field in Minnesota, and several other cases.

Am I wrong to think this? You may not be in a position to opine on this directly. So if I'm wrong, reply with a single ping. If I'm right, just don't respond to this post at all. That simple.
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but one of our major supporters is Methodist Hospital...
how could we not have the best medical staff in the NFL?
:sarcasm:
you raise an excellent question. and CnD makes an excellent observation... damn if I know how to answer either of them. But all of those examples reflect negatively - to me anyway - on the Texans' medical unit.
 
Lucky said:
Following the Texans since their inception, I've reached an uneducated conclusion that this team has one of, if not the, worst medical staffs in the NFL. I base this on observations such as the Boselli fiasco, the Domanick Davis misdiagnosis, the Spencer uncertainty, not informing Kubiak that Schaub could have a serious knee injury and allowing him to stay on the field in Minnesota, and several other cases.

Am I wrong to think this? You may not be in a position to opine on this directly. So if I'm wrong, reply with a single ping. If I'm right, just don't respond to this post at all. That simple.
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Don't need to be a doctor to understand that the Texans medical staff are flat out morons. Especially if Orthopedic Associates is involved...
 
I didn't watch the game but heard on the radio this am that the announcers were saying a knee injury?

uh..ok..maybe they thought he could limp off ok and didn't suspect his ankle was hurt.

I am only guessing but if the announcers are saying "oh no it looks like a serious knee injury" maybe they didn't even think about his ankle in those few minutes of him being on the ground and then going to the sidelines.

grasping at straws here....to those that watched did he look like he broke his ankle or was it his knee that they were working on?
 
WWJD said:
I didn't watch the game but heard on the radio this am that the announcers were saying a knee injury?

uh..ok..maybe they thought he could limp off ok and didn't suspect his ankle was hurt.

I am only guessing but if the announcers are saying "oh no it looks like a serious knee injury" maybe they didn't even think about his ankle in those few minutes of him being on the ground and then going to the sidelines.

grasping at straws here....to those that watched did he look like he broke his ankle or was it his knee that they were working on?
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At the time, the announcers were saying "knee" and it appeared to me that they were concentrating on that. From the first replays it looked like it was knee, and I was a little surprised when they started talking about his ankle. I'm not sure, but, I thought they had ice on his knee when they were carting him to the dressing room. Not sure about that though.
 
WWJD said:
I didn't watch the game but heard on the radio this am that the announcers were saying a knee injury?

uh..ok..maybe they thought he could limp off ok and didn't suspect his ankle was hurt.

I am only guessing but if the announcers are saying "oh no it looks like a serious knee injury" maybe they didn't even think about his ankle in those few minutes of him being on the ground and then going to the sidelines.

grasping at straws here....to those that watched did he look like he broke his ankle or was it his knee that they were working on?
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I re-ran the play in slo-mo about 4-5 times looking for some sign of an awkward/unnatural twisting or bending of the knee or ankle. I never really saw either of those joints being bent backwards or rolled over or anything like that. I think the announcers were looking at how hard his knee impacted the ground during the tackle.
 
WWJD said:
I didn't watch the game but heard on the radio this am that the announcers were saying a knee injury?

uh..ok..maybe they thought he could limp off ok and didn't suspect his ankle was hurt.

I am only guessing but if the announcers are saying "oh no it looks like a serious knee injury" maybe they didn't even think about his ankle in those few minutes of him being on the ground and then going to the sidelines.

grasping at straws here....to those that watched did he look like he broke his ankle or was it his knee that they were working on?
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SheTexan said:
I was wondering the same thing Jean The boy was in obvious pain and looked like he wanted to collapse. When I saw that I figured the boy was in serious trouble. The Texans medical staff continues to amaze me, in all the wrong ways! Truthfully, I think they need to hire me to give those boys the ULTIMATE in psychological care, lots of grandma TLC!!!:heart: I'd be happy to give um a shoulder to cry on!!
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When I was watching the game, shortly after the injury was replayed, I posted that it looked more like an ankle. The training team were not concentrating on doing ANY of the typical knee exam maneuvers such as the "drawer" test. They were pulling back the foot, thereby checking the ankle. And when they were transporting him on the cart, they were steadying the leg (evidently protecting it from movement on the cart) pressing down just below the knee (on the shin bone [tibia]), something that you would not expect if the knee was injured. There was no ice wrap on the knee or the ankle.
 
ObsiWan said:
I re-ran the play in slo-mo about 4-5 times looking for some sign of an awkward/unnatural twisting or bending of the knee or ankle. I never really saw either of those joints being bent backwards or rolled over or anything like that. I think the announcers were looking at how hard his knee impacted the ground during the tackle.
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Most physicians agree that the cause of a dislocation/fracture of the ankle occurs when there is a combination of inversion of the foot along with a twisting while the foot is maximally plantar-flexed (toes fully extended like a diving into the water position). This is exactly what you see on replay if you watch carefully.

Dislocation of the ankle requires considerable force because of the mechanical efficiency and strength of the associated ligaments. Since ligaments are stronger than the small tails of the tibia and fibula bones where they attach, most ankle dislocations are associated with fractures with the ligament still attached to the broken bone fragment.

That’s why, with Tate’s statement of dislocation without fracture, I’m a little skeptical and waiting even more intensely for the final MRI results.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Most physicians agree that the cause of a dislocation/fracture of the ankle occurs when there is a combination of inversion of the foot along with a twisting while the foot is maximally plantar-flexed (toes fully extended). This is exactly what you see on replay if you watch carefully (like a diving into the water position).

Dislocation of the ankle requires considerable force because of the mechanical efficiency and strength of the associated ligaments. Since ligaments are stronger than the small tails of the tibia and fibula bones where they attach, most ankle dislocations are associated with fractures with the ligament still attached to the broken bone fragment.

That’s why, with Tate’s statement of dislocation without fracture, I’m a little skeptical and waiting even more intensely for the final MRI results.
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Holy crap that was a good read...not what I wanted to read but CnD, you can definitly get the message across. Thanks for analisys.
 
"Jim Brown played his whole NFL career without ever missing a game and never got hurt. Today there's motherTRuckers gettin' hurt in practice."

The Late Great Richard Pryor
 
SheTexan said:
At the time, the announcers were saying "knee" and it appeared to me that they were concentrating on that. From the first replays it looked like it was knee, and I was a little surprised when they started talking about his ankle. I'm not sure, but, I thought they had ice on his knee when they were carting him to the dressing room. Not sure about that though.
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That's what I heard..that the announcers were talking about his knee. I was just trying to throw out some excuses for the medical staff...why I don't know! :)

Regardless too bad the guy got hurt. Ankle, knee, whichever. I feel bad for him.
 
Did not read all the posts as so much to get to today. Sure it is only one pre-season game but RB (which I have been high on) is a joke. Reminds me of the Dline first 3 games last season and I can only hope it is corrected also. Slaton goes to end of bench and the only positive thing I can say is if in a regular game, he should not have been on the field in the red zone. We know he can't produce & should not be in that position. I can say ok the O coordinator allowed Steve one final chance, but if it happens again, especially when it counts, McNair needs to fire someone. Slaton needs to be used in middle of the field. Foster is only one that looked good although Chris was running behind back ups I think. Did not see enough of Foster to say he is the man but what is left? I shudder to think that Smith will be looking for old, injured RBs to bring to camp.

Tate? I heard Kubiak say "He needs to learn how to practice." What? What the hell does that mean? One thing about being out for the year, I guess I can not say this was a total waste of a 2nd round pick, but I sure want to.
 
badboy said:
Did not read all the posts as so much to get to today. Sure it is only one pre-season game but RB (which I have been high on) is a joke. Reminds me of the Dline first 3 games last season and I can only hope it is corrected also. Slaton goes to end of bench and the only positive thing I can say is if in a regular game, he should not have been on the field in the red zone. We know he can't produce & should not be in that position. I can say ok the O coordinator allowed Steve one final chance, but if it happens again, especially when it counts, McNair needs to fire someone. Slaton needs to be used in middle of the field. Foster is only one that looked good although Chris was running behind back ups I think. Did not see enough of Foster to say he is the man but what is left? I shudder to think that Smith will be looking for old, injured RBs to bring to camp.
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I disagree that Foster was the only one that looked good. I thought Jeremiah Johnson looked good also, and while it was only against the Cards 3's, I still felt he looked better than either Henry or Slaton. Plus, he doesn't carry the reputation that Henry does of looking great everywhere but the actual games. With Foster (for better or worse) nailing down the #1 spot, I'd like to see what Johnson can do playing with our 1's and against the Saints and Cowboys 1's.

While the fumble on Slaton's part was horrible, it was in a situation he should never see in a regular season game for the rest of his career. As far as the rest of the performance (The 2.2 ypc average), I didn't see the quicks from his rookie year, but I did see a glimpse of the vision and squirminess that helped him accomplish what he did in '08. I also saw someone coming off of a neck surgery (or spine surgery or whatever bad-ass sounding kind of surgery he came off of), and seeing full speed/full contact action for the first time since that surgery.

I think the next three games will tell a whole bunch about Slaton, and I still think he can be very productive if used properly. It's just that IMO, properly means catching passes out of the backfield, going wide, coming in as a change of pace back, and not plowing up the middle on 3rd and goal from the 1.
 
So basically there were 2 injuries in the game. Tate is out for the year which is a blow to the Texans. High draft choice in an area of need. And on another thread Fitzgerald hurt his knee for the Cards which would be a killing blow to that team if it's a nagging injury. I read it's just a few weeks for him so that's good. He's the best player on that team. That would be devastating to them to lose him for the whole year. I just can't stand preseason.
 
Man, this sucks. Tate gone for the season. There should be some reasonable talent out there that could help us in some way though.

For the record I thought Slaton looked great in that game until he fumbled. He was fighting for extra yards really nicely and I liked his vision that he had on quite a few carries. The fumbling thing is just nuts though. All I could do is laugh when I saw that.

Hopefully Foster can be everything that he's been advertised as and Slaton can have a bounce back year.
 
asleep said:
Critical wound to playoff chances, imo.
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I am not gonna go that far. Foster has shown some good stuff for us late last year and so far this year. Tate has more upside but he wasnt ready just yet. What this does is kill the depth we sorely needed. We cannot afford another RB to go down.
 
badboy said:
Did not read all the posts as so much to get to today. Sure it is only one pre-season game but RB (which I have been high on) is a joke. Reminds me of the Dline first 3 games last season and I can only hope it is corrected also. Slaton goes to end of bench and the only positive thing I can say is if in a regular game, he should not have been on the field in the red zone. We know he can't produce & should not be in that position. I can say ok the O coordinator allowed Steve one final chance, but if it happens again, especially when it counts, McNair needs to fire someone. Slaton needs to be used in middle of the field. Foster is only one that looked good although Chris was running behind back ups I think. Did not see enough of Foster to say he is the man but what is left? I shudder to think that Smith will be looking for old, injured RBs to bring to camp.

Tate? I heard Kubiak say "He needs to learn how to practice." What? What the hell does that mean? One thing about being out for the year, I guess I can not say this was a total waste of a 2nd round pick, but I sure want to.
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"Ben is going to go on I.R.," Kubiak said. "Ben is done for the season. He obviously needs surgery. The surgery should be fine; he should be back playing next year. It's a big blow because we were counting on him a great deal. He's a good-looking young player, but he'll be back. He's a good kid. He'll be back."
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arnold-schwarzenegger-the-terminator.jpg


badboy - you know who got him?














Darryl Washington
 
MRI, indeed, ending up demonstrating not only ligament tears with separation, but also accompanying fracture.

Tate suffers two injuries
Second-year running back Ben Tate is undergoing season-ending surgery to repair damage in his ankle and to his fibula. He will be placed on injured reserve.

In the 16-13 loss at Arizona, Tate suffered torn ligaments in his ankle and a fractured fibula — the bone that runs parallel to the tibia in the lower leg.

"The surgery should be fine; he should be back playing next year," coach Gary Kubiak said. "It's a big blow because we were counting on him a great deal. He's a good-looking young player, but he'll be back.

"You know, I went out on the field with him when he did it. I think we kind of knew it wasn't good just by watching what had happened on the field."

Tate was tackled by rookie linebacker Daryl Washington on a 12-yard run.

"I just told him that I thought a lot of him," Kubiak said. "I know I've been hard on him. I was hard on him because I knew was going to help this team a great deal. And he will again."
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