bah007's Top 5 by Position

[Corrosion]

lol, weren't you the one that brought that up in another thread only to have like 10 DIFFERENT people tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about?

Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....

Either way , wasn't me who made mention of it in any recent posts (besides the one you just quoted).

 

[infantrycak]

lol, weren't you the one that brought that up in another thread only to have like 10 DIFFERENT people tell you that you didn't know what you were talking about?

Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....

FTW, you are thinking of steelb and he made an assertion about the 2004 playoffs/SB. That was what was debunked.

 

[Corrosion]

FTW, you are thinking of steelb and he made an assertion about the 2004 playoffs/SB. That was what was debunked.

You happen to know what thread that conversation is in ??


What exactly was debunked ... ??

 

[steelbtexan]

Nope , you don't know what you are talking about ....

Either way , wasn't me who made mention of it in any recent posts (besides the one you just quoted).

I posted the post he is talking about.

Appears I was right and only 2 people said I was wrong.

Carry on

 

[infantrycak]

You happen to know what thread that conversation is in ??


What exactly was debunked ... ??

Don't recall the thread. IIRC the assertion was something about not wanting a QB who throws up in the huddle in the playoffs/SB (can't remember which). Debunked might have been too strong. In support was a statement from TO. Against were statements from multiple other witnesses including folks in the huddle.

 

[Corrosion]

Don't recall the thread. IIRC the assertion was something about not wanting a QB who throws up in the huddle in the playoffs/SB (can't remember which). Debunked might have been too strong. In support was a statement from TO. Against were statements from multiple other witnesses including folks in the huddle.

Doesn't look as if he farted in that photo to me

 

[76Texan]

Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

 

[Playoffs]

Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

Was stoning everyone at Senior practices. I think he can play at T and will be a 1st rounder.

 

[bah007]

Bah, I see that you projected Zack Martin to Guard.

I was studying him as part of the study on OT, and I really liked him.
I didn't read about him at all beforehand.
Now that I did, I saw the 32-1/2 arms (which I don't think are terribly short.)
He plays with such good pad level and leverage, I don't think arm length is that much of a problem.

I also read that he has been impressing at the Senior bowl practice, which doesn't surprise me at all.
I see him as a first rounder; I think he's at least top 5 as an OT.

He's a first rounder. I think he'll be a better Guard than Tackle, but he is capable of playing RT.

 

[WolverineFan]

Performed better at OT than OG at Senior Bowl which seems to have surprised some people because of his short arms.

 

[mussop]

Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

 

[WolverineFan]

Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

Won't speak for bah, but I'm not a fan of Andre Williams either. Haven't understood the hype on him at all.

Can't catch, can't block, can't really move in space, and is not fast. He's a smashmouth, downhill runner. Those old school runners are mostly gone from the league these days. It's all about skill sets now and he doesn't really have one that is utilized by a lot of teams.

 

[bah007]

Bishop Sankey – Washington moved to number two? Why? I love his burst. He is number one IMO. What's up with the boston college RB? You don't like him?

Nothing against Sankey. I'm higher on him than the consensus seems to be. Just think that Mason is better. Wouldn't shock me at all if Mason is the only RB drafted in the first round.

I think WolverineFan is in my head because what he said is pretty much spot on how I feel about Andre Williams. At best he's Daniel Thomas in the NFL. Great college player though.

 

[aussie_texan]

Won't speak for bah, but I'm not a fan of Andre Williams either. Haven't understood the hype on him at all.

Can't catch, can't block, can't really move in space, and is not fast. He's a smashmouth, downhill runner. Those old school runners are mostly gone from the league these days. It's all about skill sets now and he doesn't really have one that is utilized by a lot of teams.

if anything he actually plays like a smaller back. doesn't use his size like hyde or hill does. better running stretch plays than up the middle.

 

[WolverineFan]

Just think that Mason is better. Wouldn't shock me at all if Mason is the only RB drafted in the first round.

Mason reminds me of Marshawn Lynch.

 

[TexansSeminole]

if anything he actually plays like a smaller back. doesn't use his size like hyde or hill does. better running stretch plays than up the middle.

Um, what?

Andre Williams trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.

 

[mussop]

Um, what?

Andre Williams trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.

This. I'm not high on him for us (texans) but I could see him fitting in really well for a team like the 49 ers.

I really like mason too but Sankey is still number one on my board.

 

[aussie_texan]

Um, what?

Andre Williams trucked and stiff armed his way to the rushing title. Nothing about Williams says he runs like a smaller back. He ran with more power than anyone I saw this year. People are going to be surprised with his speed too, he is much faster than people are giving him credit for.

this is what i meant by smaller back. i really like williams. but he isn't going to get those short 3rd and 1/2 type of yards up the middle. his not in the same mold as hyde and hill. I watched him a lot. his a different style of back compared to those other two even though there sizes are similar.

http://secondroundstats.com/?p=558
the above link examples pretty well what i mean.

 

[bah007]

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Blake Bortles – UCF
3. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr – Fresno St
5. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
6. Brett Smith – Wyoming
7. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
8. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
9. A.J. McCarron – Alabama
10. David Fales – San Jose St

HB
1. Tre Mason – Auburn
2. Bishop Sankey – Washington
3. Ka’Deem Carey – Arizona
4. Carlos Hyde – Ohio St
5. Lache Seastrunk – Baylor
6. Charles Sims – West Virginia
7. Antonio Andrews – Western Kentucky
8. Jeremy Hill – LSU
9. De’Anthony Thomas – Oregon
10. Kapri Bibbs – Colorado St

FB
1. Trey Millard – Oklahoma
2. Jay Prosch – Auburn
3. J.C. Copeland – LSU
4. Chris Coyle – Arizona St
5. Ryan Hewitt – Stanford

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson
2. Marqise Lee – USC
3. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU
4. Jordan Matthews – Vanderbilt
5. Mike Evans – Texas A&M
6. Kelvin Benjamin – Florida St
7. Allen Robinson – Penn St
8. Davante Adams – Fresno St
9. Jarvis Landry – LSU
10. Brandin Cooks – Oregon St

TE
1. Eric Ebron – North Carolina
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins – Washington
3. Jace Amaro – Texas Tech
4. Troy Niklas – Notre Dame
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz – Iowa
6. Arthur Lynch – Georgia
7. Xavier Grimble – USC
8. Marcel Jensen – Fresno St
9. Joe Don Duncan – Dixie St
10. Jake Murphy – Utah

OT
1. Greg Robinson – Auburn
2. Cyrus Kouandjio – Alabama
3. Antonio Richardson – Tennessee
4. Taylor Lewan – Michigan
5. JuWaun James – Tennessee
6. Morgan Moses – Virginia
7. Cameron Fleming – Stanford
8. James Hurst – North Carolina
9. Seantrel Henderson – Miami
10. Jack Mewhort – Ohio St

OG
1. Jake Matthews – Texas A&M
2. Zack Martin – Notre Dame
3. Gabe Jackson – Mississippi St
4. Xavier Su’a-Filo – UCLA
5. Cyril Richardson – Baylor
6. David Yankey – Stanford
7. Anthony Steen – Alabama
8. Brandon Thomas – Clemson
9. Trai Turner – LSU
10. Chris Watt – Notre Dame

C
1. Weston Richburg – Colorado St
2. Travis Swanson – Arkansas
3. Marcus Martin – USC
4. Bryan Stork – Florida St
5. Tyler Larsen – Utah St


DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney – South Carolina
2. Stephon Tuitt – Notre Dame
3. Kony Ealy – Missouri
4. Trent Murphy – Stanford
5. Jackson Jeffcoat – Texas
6. Trevor Reilly – Utah
7. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
8. Chris Smith – Arkansas
9. Kareem Martin – North Carolina
10. Michael Sam – Missouri

DT
1. Timmy Jernigan – Florida St
2. Louis Nix – Notre Dame
3. Aaron Donald – Pittsburgh
4. Dominique Easley – Florida
5. Ra’Shede Hageman – Minnesota
6. Kelcy Quarles – South Carolina
7. Will Sutton – Arizona St
8. DaQuan Jones – Penn St
9. Ego Ferguson – LSU
10. George Uko – USC

OLB
1. Khalil Mack – Buffalo
2. Anthony Barr – UCLA
3. Ryan Shazier – Ohio St
4. Kyle Van Noy – BYU
5. Dee Ford – Auburn
6. Carl Bradford – Arizona St
7. Jeremiah Attaochu – Georgia Tech
8. Demarcus Lawrence – Boise St
9. Telvin Smith – Florida St
10. Jordan Zumwalt – UCLA

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley – Alabama
2. Yawin Smallwood – Connecticut
3. Shayne Skov – Stanford
4. Chris Borland – Wisconsin
5. Christian Jones – Florida St
6. Lamin Barrow – LSU
7. Andrew Jackson – Western Kentucky
8. Greg Blair – Cincinnati
9. Max Bullough – Michigan St
10. Shaquil Barrett – Colorado St

CB
1. Justin Gilbert – Oklahoma St
2. Darqueze Dennard – Michigan St
3. Lamarcus Joyner – Florida St
4. Jason Verrett – TCU
5. Marcus Roberson – Florida
6. Kyle Fuller – Virginia Tech
7. Bradley Roby – Ohio St
8. Pierre Desir – Lindenwood
9. Loucheiz Purifoy – Florida
10. E.J. Gaines – Missouri

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix – Alabama
2. Calvin Pryor – Louisville
3. Jimmie Ward – Northern Illinois
4. Terrence Brooks – Florida St
5. Stanley Jean-Baptiste – Nebraska
6. Marqueston Huff – Wyoming
7. Tre Boston – North Carolina
8. Isaiah Lewis – Michigan St
9. Jonathan Dowling – Western Kentucky
10. Alden Darby – Arizona St

SS
1. Deone Bucannon – Washington St
2. Craig Loston – LSU
3. Ahmad Dixon – Baylor
4. Ed Reynolds – Stanford
5. Hakeem Smith – Louisville
6. Dion Bailey – USC
7. Kenny Ladler – Vanderbilt
8. Nickoe Whitley – Mississippi St
9. Daytawion Lowe – Oklahoma St
10. Jacques Washington – Iowa St

K
1. Anthony Fera – Texas
2. Jeff Budzien – Northwestern
3. Cairo Santos – Tulane

P
1. Steven Clark – Auburn
2. Kirby Van Der Kamp – Iowa St
3. Pat O’Donnell – Miami

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I would say that this is a deep draft and the deepest positions are OT , OG , DT , DE , TE .

 

[TexansFTW]

If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

 

[bah007]

If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

Agree for the most part. The guys I have in front of him may not be faster over 40 yards but they get to top speed very quickly. The 10 yard split and 3 cone shuttle are much more important to me for a RB. Quickness and acceleration are key.

 

[bah007]

I would say that this is a deep draft and the deepest positions are OT , OG , DT , DE , TE .

OT has a lot of talent in the first four rounds but I feel like that's about it.

WR, TE, OG, DE, and DT are all extremely deep. A lot of underclassmen in this draft pushes some solid talent down in each round. It's a great year to have the #1 pick in rounds 2-7.

 

[steelbtexan]

OT has a lot of talent in the first four rounds but I feel like that's about it.

WR, TE, OG, DE, and DT are all extremely deep. A lot of underclassmen in this draft pushes some solid talent down in each round. It's a great year to have the #1 pick in rounds 2-7.

I really don't think that DE is that deep. What true 3 down pass rushers are there besides Clowney. I see Tuitt 5 tech or DT in a 3-4. I'm not sold on Ealy. The team I'm mock drafting for (Bears) they need a DE. But I expect them to sign Micheal Bennett in FA and pick a DE later rd 3-5 in the draft.

 

[bah007]

I really don't think that DE is that deep. What true 3 down pass rushers are there besides Clowney. I see Tuitt 5 tech or DT in a 3-4. I'm not sold on Ealy. The team I'm mock drafting for (Bears) they need a DE. But I expect them to sign Micheal Bennett in FA and pick a DE later rd 3-5 in the draft.

It's deep in the sense that you can find depth players littered throughout the later rounds of the draft.

As far as the top level pass rushers go (rounds 1-3), this draft has too many 34 OLBs and not enough 43 DEs.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

It's deep in the sense that you can find depth players littered throughout the later rounds of the draft.

As far as the top level pass rushers go (rounds 1-3), this draft has too many 34 OLBs and not enough 43 DEs.

I think these two guys can play .

7. Scott Crichton – Oregon St
8. Chris Smith – Arkansas

 

[TexansSeminole]

this is what i meant by smaller back. i really like williams. but he isn't going to get those short 3rd and 1/2 type of yards up the middle. his not in the same mold as hyde and hill. I watched him a lot. his a different style of back compared to those other two even though there sizes are similar.

http://secondroundstats.com/?p=558
the above link examples pretty well what i mean.

Interesting statistics, good find. He passes the eye test as a powerful runner and do think he will post an impressive 40 time for his size. I'm clearly higher on him than many here.

 

[aussie_texan]

Interesting statistics, good find. He passes the eye test as a powerful runner and do think he will post an impressive 40 time for his size. I'm clearly higher on him than many here.

he should post one of the better times for 'backs in his 'weight category' i would expect.
Im quite high on him as well. i listed him in prospects i would bang the table for. only thing is I'm questioning whether going RB at all in this years draft is going to happen or not. We might just pick up a guy in FA. but if we are looking for a running back in the middle round lets say 3-5 there are none better i think.

 

[Corrosion]

Some of those stats about Carr make me concerned, especially the short pass accuracy issues.

Accuracy and his performance against pressure ....

 

[Blake]

Well Michael Sam just dropped off Bah's top 10!

 

[Playoffs]

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater – Louisville
2. Blake Bortles – UCF
3. Johnny Manziel – Texas A&M
4. Derek Carr – Fresno St
5. Zach Mettenberger – LSU
6. Brett Smith – Wyoming
7. Jimmy Garoppolo – Eastern Illinois
8. Connor Shaw – South Carolina
9. A.J. McCarron – Alabama
10. David Fales – San Jose St

Really interested in these and other down the list QB prospects that might tickle OB's fancy. Wondering if he'll throw a curveball.

Reported that Texans met with Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU at the Combine and Stephen Morris, QB, Miami at the Senior Bowl.

Gil Brandt was chirping about Tom Savage's arm at the Combine, saying it was the best in group 2 which would include Shaw, Vaughn, Thomas.

 

[bah007]

Post Combine update. I only have the top four rounds of my board done right now. This is where I grade the prospects, not necessarily where I think they will be drafted. If they aren't on this list then I have them graded 5th round or later for now..

QB
1. Teddy Bridgewater - Louisville - 1st
2. Blake Bortles - UCF - 1st
3. Johnny Manziel - Texas A&M - 1st
4. Derek Carr - Fresno St - 2nd
5. Zach Mettenberger - LSU - 2nd
6. Jimmy Garoppolo - Eastern Illinois - 3rd
7. Aaron Murray - Georgia - 4th
8. A.J. McCarron - Alabama - 4th

RB
1. Tre Mason - Auburn - 1st
2. Bishop Sankey - Washington - 1st
3. Carlos Hyde - Ohio St - 2nd
4. Charles Sims - West Virginia - 2nd
5. Lache Seastrunk - Baylor - 3rd
6. Andre Williams - Boston College - 3rd
7. Ka'Deem Carey - Arizona - 3rd
8. Jeremy Hill - LSU - 3rd
9. Terrance West - Towson - 4th
10. Jerick McKinnon - Georgia Southern - 4th
11. Isaiah Crowell - Alabama St - 4th

FB
1. Trey Millard - Oklahoma - 4th

WR
1. Sammy Watkins – Clemson - 1st
2. Odell Beckham Jr. – LSU - 1st
3. Mike Evans - Texas A&M - 1st
4. Marqise Lee - USC - 1st
5. Donte Moncrief - Ole Miss - 1st
6. Jordan Matthews - Vanderbilt - 2nd
7. Brandin Cooks - Oregon St - 2nd
8. Kelvin Benjamin - Florida St - 2nd
9. Allen Robinson - Penn St - 2nd
10. Davante Adams - Fresno St - 2nd
11. Jarvis Landry - LSU - 3rd
12. Martavis Bryant - Clemson - 3rd
13. Paul Richardson - Colorado - 3rd
14. Robert Herron - Wyoming - 3rd
15. Jared Abbrederis - Wisconsin - 4th
16. Bruce Ellington - South Carolina - 4th

TE
1. Eric Ebron - North Carolina - 1st
2. Troy Niklas - Notre Dame - 1st
3. Jace Amaro - Texas Tech - 2nd
4. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - Washington - 2nd
5. C.J. Fiedorowicz - Iowa - 3rd
6. Arthur Lynch - Georgia - 3rd
7. Crockett Gilmore - Colorado St - 4th
8. Joe Don Duncan - Dixie St - 4th

OL and Defense are complete but I don't have it formatted yet. Will be posting it soon. Let me have it...

 

[aussie_texan]

Murray graded as a 4th rounder is interesting??
is that mainly for the injury or something else? considering that z.mett is 2nd round

 

[bah007]

Murray graded as a 4th rounder is interesting??
is that mainly for the injury or something else? considering that z.mett is 2nd round

My thoughts on Murray from a different thread:

Murray does a lot of things well but he doesn't do anything great. To me, he fits in the Colt McCoy/Kirk Cousins/Matt Barkley department as far as physical skills go. I see a NFL backup QB. He seems intelligent, but not intelligent enough to make up for his physical limitations at the next level.

I don't like his size. His arm is meh. It's good enough for the NFL but what he lacks in arm strength he doesn't make up for anywhere else. He gets a lot of passes batted down at the line. He needs a clean pocket for any throw longer than 15 yards. He's accurate but not amazingly accurate. His ball gets where it's going but there is no zip. He plays in a pro style offense and makes good pre snap reads but takes way too long going through his progressions if his first guy is covered.

He has good mechanics. He has a smooth delivery, a quick release, and good footwork. He has good enough feet to avoid the rush and buy time. By all accounts he is a great leader and a film junkie. He didn't put any absolutely terrible games on tape this year but his performance against Vanderbilt was not pretty. His games last year against South Carolina and Florida were pathetically bad.

I have a 4th round grade on him. I think he is mentally and physically capable of being an effective backup QB, especially in a west coast system. I would not want him to be my starter. He appears to have a very high floor but a very low ceiling. He just looks average to me.

 

[steelbtexan]

My thoughts on Murray from a different thread:

I really respect your evals. It amazes me we can look at the same player and come to different observations. I see Murray as having a well above avg arm. A good mind for the game and the ability to uses his feet in the pocket to buy time and still be good enough to run for a 1st down on 3rd and 3. His biggest knocks are he didn't come up big in big games and he's short.

BTW, Jim Miller agrees with me on Murray's arm strength and he said he has seen a lot of Murray's tape in addition to seeing Murray in person.

 

[bah007]

OT
1. Greg Robinson - Auburn - 1st
2. Jake Matthews - Texas A&M - 1st
3. Taylor Lewan - Michigan - 1st
4. Antonio Richardson - Tennessee - 1st
5. Morgan Moses - Virginia - 2nd
6. Cyrus Kouandijo - Alabama - 2nd
7. JuWaun James - Tennessee - 3rd
8. Joel Bitonio - Nevada - 3rd
9. James Hurst - North Carolina - 3rd
10. Cameron Fleming - Stanford - 4th
11. Seantrel Henderson - Miami - 4th
12. Billy Turner - North Dakota St - 4th
13. Wesley Johnson - Vanderbilt - 4th

OG
1. Zack Martin - Notre Dame - 1st
2. Gabe Jackson - Mississippi St - 2nd
3. Xavier Su'a-Filo - UCLA - 2nd
4. Brandon Thomas - Clemson - 2nd
5. David Yankey - Stanford - 3rd
6. Cyril Richardson - Baylor - 3rd
7. Kadeem Edwards - Tennessee St - 4th
8. Anthony Steen - Alabama - 4th
9. Trai Turner - LSU - 4th

C
1. Weston Richburg - Colorado St - 2nd
2. Marcus Martin - USC - 3rd
3. Travis Swanson - Arkansas - 3rd
4. Russell Bodine - North Carolina - 4th
5. Bryan Stork - Florida St - 4th

DE
1. Jadeveon Clowney - South Carolina - 1st
2. Kony Ealy - Missouri - 1st
3. Stephon Tuitt - Notre Dame - 1st
4. Kareem Martin - North Carolina - 1st
5. Trent Murphy - Stanford - 2nd
6. Chris Smith - Arkansas - 2nd
7. Scott Crichton - Oregon St - 2nd
8. Jackson Jeffcoat - Texas - 3rd
9. Marcus Smith - Louisville - 3rd
10. Trevor Reilly - Utah - 3rd
11. Adrian Hubbard - Alabama - 3rd
12. Brent Urban - Virginia - 4th
13. Will Clarke - West Virginia - 4th

DT
1. Aaron Donald - Pittsburgh - 1st
2. Timmy Jernigan - Florida St - 1st
3. Louis Nix - Notre Dame - 1st
4. Ra'Shede Hageman - Minnesota - 2nd
5. Dominique Easley - Florida - 2nd
6. Kelcy Quarles - South Carolina - 2nd
7. Will Sutton - Arizona St - 2nd
8. DaQuan Jones - Penn St - 3rd
9. DeAndre Coleman - California - 3rd
10. Ego Ferguson - LSU - 3rd
11. Caraun Reid - Princeton - 4th
12. Anthony Johnson - LSU - 4th
13. George Uko - USC - 4th
14. Ryan Carrethers - Arkansas St - 4th

Some of the guys I have listed at DE do not project to that position (ex. Jeffcoat is a 34 edge rusher), but I list them with the other DEs because I rate them as pure pass rushers who I would not use in coverage.

 

[bah007]

I really respect your evals. It amazes me we can look at the same player and come to different observations. I see Murray as having a well above avg arm. A good mind for the game and the ability to uses his feet in the pocket to buy time and still be good enough to run for a 1st down on 3rd and 3. His biggest knocks are he didn't come up big in big games and he's short.

BTW, Jim Miller agrees with me on Murray's arm strength and he said he has seen a lot of Murray's tape in addition to seeing Murray in person.

Murray has plenty of arm strength in the sense that he can throw the ball far, what I mean is that I don't think his ball has enough zip on it. To me, it doesn't seem to get to it's destination quickly enough.

I respect his preparation but I think he is a very poor improviser. He makes good checks at the line, but if his first read is covered he seems to take forever to find the next one.

He has good feet in the pocket but he panics under pressure.

I think a lot of his issues can be worked with, but I still feel that his ceiling is that of a NFL backup.

 

[steelbtexan]

Murray has plenty of arm strength in the sense that he can throw the ball far, what I mean is that I don't think his ball has enough zip on it. To me, it doesn't seem to get to it's destination quickly enough.

I respect his preparation but I think he is a very poor improviser. He makes good checks at the line, but if his first read is covered he seems to take forever to find the next one.

He has good feet in the pocket but he panics under pressure.

I think a lot of his issues can be worked with, but I still feel that his ceiling is that of a NFL backup.

To be fair, All of Murray's WR's and RB's got hurt. Because of this Murray's timing was off against Vandy. He flat out stunk against S.Carolina. But when you compare Nurray's body of work against every other QB in this draft. Murray hold up as well as any QB in this draft. IMHO Whether Murray's game translates well to the NFL is the question. I think he has a chance to be as good as Schaub was in 2009 and in my mind that's good enough to win a SB. How many/of the QB's in this draft have a chance to be as good as 2009 Scaub. 1 probably be better but I wouldn't bet on any of them.

 

[bah007]

To be fair, All of Murray's WR's and RB's got hurt. Because of this Murray's timing was off against Vandy. He flat out stunk against S.Carolina. But when you compare Nurray's body of work against every other QB in this draft. Murray hold up as well as any QB in this draft. IMHO Whether Murray's game translates well to the NFL is the question. I think he has a chance to be as good as Schaub was in 2009 and in my mind that's good enough to win a SB. How many/of the QB's in this draft have a chance to be as good as 2009 Scaub. 1 probably be better but I wouldn't bet on any of them.

That's a fair assessment. I agree that his mental makeup translates to the pros very well, which is why I think he will have a long NFL career.

Where we disagree is that I do not think that his physical skill set translates very well.

I think he would make a great backup because he could probably learn the intricacies of any system fairly quickly, he has the necessary skills to come into the game in a pinch if need be, but I don't believe he is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would be all for giving him a shot to prove me wrong. He seems like the kind of guy who would put more than his fair share of the work in, but I think his ceiling lies somewhere below good Schaub and above Keenum's.

 

[bah007]

OLB
1. Khalil Mack - Buffalo - 1st
2. Anthony Barr - UCLA - 1st
3. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St - 1st
4. Kyle Van Noy - BYU - 1st
5. Dee Ford - Auburn - 1st
6. Lamin Barrow - LSU - 2nd
7. Telvin Smith - Florida St - 3rd
8. Jeremiah Attaochu - Georgia Tech - 3rd
9. Jordan Zumwalt - UCLA - 4th
10. Kevin Pierre-Louis - Boston College - 4th
11. Christian Kirksey - Iowa - 4th
12. Tyler Starr - South Dakota - 4th

ILB
1. C.J. Moseley - Alabama - 1st
2. Carl Bradford - Arizona St - 2nd
3. Chris Borland - Wisconsin - 2nd
4. Yawin Smallwood - Connecticut - 2nd
5. Shayne Skov - Stanford - 2nd
6. Christian Jones - Florida St - 3rd
7. Andrew Jackson - Western Kentucky - 4th

CB
1. Justin Gilbert - Oklahoma St - 1st
2. Darqueze Dennard - Michigan St - 1st
3. Jason Verrett - TCU - 1st
4. Kyle Fuller - Virginia Tech - 1st
5. Bradley Roby - Ohio St - 2nd
6. Keith McGill - Utah - 2nd
7. Marcus Roberson - Florida - 3rd
8. E.J. Gaines - Missouri - 3rd
9. Terrance Mitchell - Oregon - 3rd
10. Ross Cockrell - Duke - 4th
11. Loucheiz Purifoy - Florida - 4th
12. Rashaad Reynolds - Oregon St - 4th
13. Antone Exum - Virginia Tech - 4th
14. Jaylen Watkins - Florida - 4th
15. Andre Hal - Vanderbilt - 4th

FS
1. HaHa Clinton-Dix - Alabama - 1st
2. Lamarcus Joyner - Florida St - 2nd
3. Deone Bucannon - Washington St - 2nd
4. Calvin Pryor - Louisville - 2nd
5. Terrence Brooks - Florida St - 3rd
6. Pierre Desir - Lindenwood - 3rd
7. Jimmie Ward - Northern Illinois - 3rd
8. Stanley Jean-Baptiste - Nebraska - 4th
9. Tre Boston - North Carolina - 4th

SS
1. Craig Loston - LSU - 2nd
2. Ed Reynolds - Stanford - 3rd
3. Ahmad Dixon - Baylor - 4th
4. Kenny Ladler - Vanderbilt - 4th

I designate FS and SS differently than most. To me, FS is a S that I would trust with coverage responsibility. SS is a S that I would not. Depending on scheme, some of these guys would line up elsewhere. Ex. Joyner and Desir are CB/S hybrids to me, they could play anywhere from CB, NB, FS, or SS depending on what team they are on.

 

[steelbtexan]

Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

 

[WolverineFan]

Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

Haha I played with Meech (Demetri). Can't believe he's an NFL prospect now. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way. He was just always a basketball player first and didn't take football serious in high school.

 

[bah007]

Bah, have you looked at Dimtri Goodson? He's a real late rd sleeper that could really be a upgrade from McCain. I also like Carrington Byndham for that role.

I'm very familiar with both Goodson and Byndom. I have both rated as UDFAs right now.

Goodson is very raw, which is fine but he is going to be 25 at the start of his rookie year. He also looks pretty soft. He doesn't like contact. That's okay if you're an exceptional athlete, but he's not. He's a good athlete. He's also an injury waiting to happen. If his brother weren't already in the NFL I don't think people would think very highly of him.

Byndom is not athletic enough to be a NFL CB and not physical enough to be a Safety, IMO. He had one good pretty good year in college but regressed quite a bit the year after.

There are a bunch of quality CBs this year which pushes these guys down the list. I think both could have an outside shot at making a roster, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think he would make a great backup because he could probably learn the intricacies of any system fairly quickly, he has the necessary skills to come into the game in a pinch if need be, but I don't believe he is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would be all for giving him a shot to prove me wrong. He seems like the kind of guy who would put more than his fair share of the work in, but I think his ceiling lies somewhere below good Schaub and above Keenum's.

For any of these guys, I think if you get him with a Kubiak, Shanahan, Mike Martz, Josh McDaniels, Mike McCoy... or hopefully Bill O"Brien I think they will do very well..... good Schaub would be their floor..... jmo. It's up to them to bring the playmaking ability with them.

I like the Mettenberger, Murray, & McCarrons better because watching them I see them hang in the pocket & work their system more than the other guys. Even Bridgewater. These guys pump fake, throw back shoulder, look off safeties, & take hits in the pocket as they throw a fairly accurate ball.

Murray & McCarron, I think are the most NFL ready. May not be the most athletic, don't have a lot of wow. Mettenberger & Bridgewater are probably next on my list. Then Fales & Bortles.

Manziel is totally different..... on a scale all his own, more like Vick, Newton, & Young. Mostly wow. He doesn't have the arm those three had & he doesn't have the size of Newton & Young, or the speed of Vick (or Newton).

 

[TexansFTW]

If Hyde can drop about 10-15 pounds and improve his top end speed just a little (4.50) 40 I think that guy can be special.

I love the way he bounces off tackles, but I think in the NFL they are a little more apt to not you let slide past the first defender every time, so he needs a little more top end speed.

Obviously good stuff.

Well... He didn't do it. Slower than I thought. Is he the next Eddie Lacy?

I know you told me to watch his other events, but I don't think that he even attempted them so this is pretty much what I have to go off of.

 

[bah007]

Well... He didn't do it. Slower than I thought. Is he the next Eddie Lacy?

I know you told me to watch his other events, but I don't think that he even attempted them so this is pretty much what I have to go off of.

Yea I think he pulled a hamstring or something because I didn't see him do anything after the 40 and it looked like he came up lame.

 

[bah007]

For any of these guys, I think if you get him with a Kubiak, Shanahan, Mike Martz, Josh McDaniels, Mike McCoy... or hopefully Bill O"Brien I think they will do very well..... good Schaub would be their floor..... jmo. It's up to them to bring the playmaking ability with them.

I like the Mettenberger, Murray, & McCarrons better because watching them I see them hang in the pocket & work their system more than the other guys. Even Bridgewater. These guys pump fake, throw back shoulder, look off safeties, & take hits in the pocket as they throw a fairly accurate ball.

Murray & McCarron, I think are the most NFL ready. May not be the most athletic, don't have a lot of wow. Mettenberger & Bridgewater are probably next on my list. Then Fales & Bortles.

Manziel is totally different..... on a scale all his own, more like Vick, Newton, & Young. Mostly wow. He doesn't have the arm those three had & he doesn't have the size of Newton & Young, or the speed of Vick (or Newton).

To each their own. I am a fan of guys who are "pro ready", as they require less projection and mental work to adapt to the pros. But you still need to have the physical skill set, which I think Murray lacks.

I think Bridgewater and Murray are the two most mentally pro ready passers in this draft. If O'Brien picked Murray I would be ecstatic, as it would show that he believes Murray has the necessary physical skills.

McCarron played in a pro system but he was so protected that it's hard to project his skills. He barely had to do anything, not necessarily because he can't but he certainly wasn't asked to.

Mettenberger played in Cameron's offense and made great strides this year, but it was only his first year in that system. He still has a long way to go mentally.

I want no part of Manziel. He may end up great but his flaws are gargantuan to me and not worth the risk.

 

[aussie_texan]

OLB
1. Khalil Mack - Buffalo - 1st
2. Anthony Barr - UCLA - 1st
3. Ryan Shazier - Ohio St - 1st
4. Kyle Van Noy - BYU - 1st
5. Dee Ford - Auburn - 1st
6. Lamin Barrow - LSU - 2nd
7. Telvin Smith - Florida St - 3rd
8. Jeremiah Attaochu - Georgia Tech - 3rd
9. Jordan Zumwalt - UCLA - 4th
10. Kevin Pierre-Louis - Boston College - 4th
11. Christian Kirksey - Iowa - 4th
12. Tyler Starr - South Dakota - 4th

BIG drop off after the top guys. i wonder if the texans will have similar evaluations and intern what they do about it. go after someone in FA, or trade down targeting one of the top guys?

 

[rmartin65]

I love your work, bah. This is some excellent stuff.