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Badboy suggests Clowney trade

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
Sunday vs Rams allows QB Savage to show fans he is much better than vs Colts. Not happening.

Basic parts of my trade suggestion with Buffalo 2018 draft picks to add if needed..your choice. Buffalo ranked # 19 on defense. Shaq Lawson needs some help.

DE and or OLB Jadaveon Clowney is in 4th year of 5 (optional) DOB Feb 14, 1993 (24). We all know his injury history but since his return in 2016 has looked very good despite Watt not being on field most of it. We don't have much else to trade.

2016: 14 games, 73% snaps, 52 tackles with 16 for loss, 2 passes defended, 6 sacks, 17 QB hits, 1 forced fumble
2017: 8 games 86 % snaps, 27 tackles with 9 for loss, 2 passes defended, 5 sacks, 7 QB hits, 2 FF

2017 salary cap $7.086863 is dead money as all guaranteed.
2018 year 5 cap $13.846 is not guaranteed and full savings.

Bills send us LT/RT rookie 2nd round draft Dion Dawkins, QB rookie 5th round draft Nate Peterman (neither starting) plus Bills send us their second of two first round #26 (still have 1.22) 2018 or

Dawkins, Peterman and both second round picks # 54 (over all) and # 60.

FYI Starter QB Tyrod Taylor for 8 games 1628 yards 10 TDs 2 INTs 65.3% 7.9 avg has rushed for 50 for 210 @ 4.2-- 28 YOA is in first of a five year contract with all guarantee paid by end 2018. Cap drops in 2019 to only $2 million and he will be 30. They shouldn't need to hold on to Peterman.

Feedback?
 
I think Clowney is the best player out of that package. He can potentially be an all time great.

I would prefer to keep him unless we get a really overwhelming package that includes a high first round pick.
 
I would do it in a NY minute. Admittedly I've been drinking. I'm 100% on board with CnD's prognosis. Get all you can for Clooney AND Watt.
 
Way to steep for Clowney.

Maybe Peterman & Dawkins. I don't see them throwing in a first. I doubt we'd get a first for Clowney alone.
 
thunderkyss said:
Way to steep for Clowney.

Maybe Peterman & Dawkins. I don't see them throwing in a first. I doubt we'd get a first for Clowney alone.
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really? Both are rookies with no NFL experience and neither are starting. I could see not getting a first but at least one of two seconds if not both.
 
ain't happening....

shouldn't this be in the draft forum?
 
Interesting trade ideal. Yes if I were the GM I would get her done. Unfortunately I don't think we will get rid of Clowney.

Now we need to find a taker for JJ Watt.
 
I think it's the old line about how it takes only one person who really wants to pay the premium price to secure that kind of deal for JD, so whether Buffalo or another team is that buyer, who knows ?
Actually I'm still trying to figure out how Belicheck only gets a second-round pick for QB Garrappalo so gauging trade value for any single player is an elusive value to calculate.
I think I know one place where Clowney would like to play, which is Atlanta, atlest he wanted to during the Draft. It's very close to his home in South Carolinas an he expressed an interest in being drafted by the Falcons.
Anyway we shall see if Clowney can get thru the entire 2017 season relatively unscathed, fit and ready for 2018 and watch what happens re the status of one Jadeveon Clowney as we approach the '18 Draft ?
 
badboy said:
Sunday vs Rams allows QB Savage to show fans he is much better than vs Colts. Not happening.

Basic parts of my trade suggestion with Buffalo 2018 draft picks to add if needed..your choice. Buffalo ranked # 19 on defense. Shaq Lawson needs some help.

DE and or OLB Jadaveon Clowney is in 4th year of 5 (optional) DOB Feb 14, 1993 (24). We all know his injury history but since his return in 2016 has looked very good despite Watt not being on field most of it. We don't have much else to trade.

2016: 14 games, 73% snaps, 52 tackles with 16 for loss, 2 passes defended, 6 sacks, 17 QB hits, 1 forced fumble
2017: 8 games 86 % snaps, 27 tackles with 9 for loss, 2 passes defended, 5 sacks, 7 QB hits, 2 FF

2017 salary cap $7.086863 is dead money as all guaranteed.
2018 year 5 cap $13.846 is not guaranteed and full savings.

Bills send us LT/RT rookie 2nd round draft Dion Dawkins, QB rookie 5th round draft Nate Peterman (neither starting) plus Bills send us their second of two first round #26 (still have 1.22) 2018 or

Dawkins, Peterman and both second round picks # 54 (over all) and # 60.

FYI Starter QB Tyrod Taylor for 8 games 1628 yards 10 TDs 2 INTs 65.3% 7.9 avg has rushed for 50 for 210 @ 4.2-- 28 YOA is in first of a five year contract with all guarantee paid by end 2018. Cap drops in 2019 to only $2 million and he will be 30. They shouldn't need to hold on to Peterman.

Feedback?
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Trading Clowney could be a mistake.
I'm thinking about whether JJ Watt is ever going to be the Watt we reminesce about again and the chances are leaning more towards no.
Clowney is younger and is almost as good as a pure pass rusher.
I know we get Mercilus back too but I reckon Texans will be looking very seriously at another good one for next season - just depends on Watt.
 
Texansphan said:
Trading Clowney could be a mistake.
I'm thinking about whether JJ Watt is ever going to be the Watt we reminesce about again and the chances are leaning more towards no.
Clowney is younger and is almost as good as a pure pass rusher.
I know we get Mercilus back too but I reckon Texans will be looking very seriously at another good one for next season - just depends on Watt.
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The Texans have to get better at developing players. Well, they did it with Mercilus, Bouye, & McKinney they just need to do more of it. If Clowney is expecting to be paid as one of the best at his position, the Texans need to be prepared to move on.
 
Texansphan said:
Trading Clowney could be a mistake.
I'm thinking about whether JJ Watt is ever going to be the Watt we reminesce about again and the chances are leaning more towards no.
Clowney is younger and is almost as good as a pure pass rusher.
I know we get Mercilus back too but I reckon Texans will be looking very seriously at another good one for next season - just depends on Watt.
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Wow no. JJ was (to be seen) an all time great. Clowney is pretty good right now.
 
Texansphan said:
As a pass rusher, Clowney is very good. Watt has a more rounded and complete game that puts him at the top of the list.
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Clowney has developed and matured in the NFL but he's really become a different kind of player than what many expected him to be in the league coming out of college.
Clowney has become versatile, and a complete front 7 defensive player best as downlineman but still able to play OLB. When I say complet I refer to his ability to play the run a well, and some think, better than rush the QB but he's not the edge-rushing ace many thought he'd be. In his fouth year he still hasn't come close to a double digit sack season.
But JD is a disruptive, very talented player who can make an impact on a game that not too many other players at his position can today.
 
We have extremely limited options to improve this team for 2018. Free agency despite having money to spend looks bleak; if we can pick up one guard who can start..Jeff Allen was supposed to be that guy. We need two guards and a right tackle and that is with Davenport starting. CB Joseph was a certain to get extension until we played Colts and then he looked worse versus Rams. KJ needs to move to safety as he seems to have slowed or is just not as good.

I understand comments about putting Watt up to see what offers we could get but I cannot believe McNair allows him to be traded. Clowney is only option to get player(s) and picks to add what we have. Dawkins and Peterman could fill OT and back up QB but I don't think I'd trade Clowney for just that. Watching Buffalo Sunday, they could really use him.
 
IDEXAN said:
Clowney has developed and matured in the NFL but he's really become a different kind of player than what many expected him to be in the league coming out of college.
Clowney has become versatile, and a complete front 7 defensive player best as downlineman but still able to play OLB. When I say complet I refer to his ability to play the run a well, and some think, better than rush the QB but he's not the edge-rushing ace many thought he'd be. In his fouth year he still hasn't come close to a double digit sack season.
But JD is a disruptive, very talented player who can make an impact on a game that not too many other players at his position can today.
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If Watts could return healthy and back to the sack master he was, Clowney would be great in the role he plays. IMO, If Watt is not the sack guy, Clowney's value to Texans drops.
 
badboy said:
If Watts could return healthy and back to the sack master he was, Clowney would be great in the role he plays. IMO, If Watt is not the sack guy,
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I wish I could say it wasn't so but I just don't have much confidence about Watt returning anywhere close to his peak form of 2015 when he returns next year. I'm even pessimistic about him making it thru the entire 2018 season at any level. So obviously if the Texans brass also feels Watts return to top form is that uncertain then Clowneys
retention is even more important for the defense.
 
Players need to add to wins not just be good players. Texans have reduced team's age but many players are not more than JAG. Having good defense but horrible offense is like loop 610, you are moving but not getting anywhere. PFF ranked offense #29. Trade is only way team fills holes.
 
Makes sense, just not sure if we could ever find a team to do it. Clowney will likely wait on free agency to test the market, possibly getting over 20 million per year from a team that will be willing to risk it to see what he can do at his natural 4-3 DE position. IMO he is not worth that kind of money based on his play here. He is playing very well, just not 20 million well in this scheme. Getting something for Clowney before we outright lose him in FA would be great.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I would trade Mercilus instead.
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I hesitate for two reasons 1) not sure of his value due to IR similar to what is Watt's value. 2)Injury history to injury history, I think Mercilus offers much longer future which is advantage. I would definitely listen to any offers for Merci.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I'm specifically talking the Bills not wanting to trade their oh ... starting quarterback?
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Cool missed that since it happened today, it would have helped for you to post and link it. I know they have not been satisfied with Tyrod Taylor who looked crappy vs Saints.
 
badboy said:
Cool missed that since it happened today, it would have helped for you to post and link it. I know they have not been satisfied with Tyrod Taylor who looked crappy vs Saints.
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Took for granted you were tuned in to Buffalo's goings on.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Took for granted you were tuned in to Buffalo's goings on.
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Thanks for compliment, due to Buffalo's rapidly moving up in draft, I would consider Dawkins and both seconds or combo of some type including safety Trae Elston. Your thoughts?
 
badboy said:
Thanks for compliment, due to Buffalo's rapidly moving up in draft, I would consider Dawkins and both seconds or combo of some type including safety Trae Elston. Your thoughts?
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I'd take that deal (the Dawkins and 2 2nds; don't know enough about Elston to comment) but not sure Buffalo would/should oblige.
 
badboy said:
I hesitate for two reasons 1) not sure of his value due to IR similar to what is Watt's value. 2)Injury history to injury history, I think Mercilus offers much longer future which is advantage. I would definitely listen to any offers for Merci.
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Fair points.
I just simply think Clowney is a better player than Mercilus and since they are both geared towards being primarily edge rushers I would like to see a more versatile LB on the other side.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Fair points.
I just simply think Clowney is a better player than Mercilus and since they are both geared towards being primarily edge rushers I would like to see a more versatile LB on the other side.
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Clowney (along with Hopkins) being named one of 25 players under 25 YOA best + comments by Arizona Cardinal's coach doesn't hurt. I'd like to draft Iowa's Josey Jewell a tackling machine for years with coverage speed with 9 PBUs 2016 & 6 2015; had 5 after game 9 this season. Wish he was taller than 6'2": jammed shoulder had him out with "jammed" shoulder for one game & he wanted to play that one.
 
JB said:
They might if we take Tyrod instead... and give them our 2nd... oh wait
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Buffalo at this moment seem to want him gone and I'd give them one of our thirds. He signed new two year deal prior to 2017 that voided his prior contract that went through 2021 but gave him $15.5 m signing and 2017 base salary guarantee of $7.5 m (23 for 2017). We could start him rest of this season and easily pay his 2018 base of ten million. Would allow us to start Watson if healthy or Tyrod Taylor who would be 29. He is a decent mobile QB avg 4.5 on six attempts per game. We have the cap to offer a good contract after 2018 if team chose to keep him.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ex-week-11-fallout-from-tyrod-taylor-benching
 
All of you liking Mollywhopper's post need to rethink. Taylor could start for many teams including Houston. He has done well this season for Buffalo and his contract plus not being a choice of new regime is his 'crime'. If Texans are going to advance in future, we need more than a Savage type behind Watson who may or not be ready for regular season. I think we will have to draft a back up for DW but that guy will not offer much if our starter goes down.
 
gs27 said:
Makes sense, just not sure if we could ever find a team to do it. Clowney will likely wait on free agency to test the market, possibly getting over 20 million per year from a team that will be willing to risk it to see what he can do at his natural 4-3 DE position. IMO he is not worth that kind of money based on his play here. He is playing very well, just not 20 million well in this scheme. Getting something for Clowney before we outright lose him in FA would be great.
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What would you guess Clowney's value to be? It seems as though he is beginning to peak. I searched team needs and a couple of mock drafts. I think it was Walter Football that I found the Browns using our 1st rounder on a 4/3 DE .... wonder if they would trade it back ? I saw this offensive line fiasco coming years ago, and have been lobbying hard and often for an OL rebuild. We evidently struck gold with Watson, and it would be sheer madness to fail once more, to acquire solid talent to protect him !!
 
no way we give up on clowney. only would trade him for a top 10 pick. the guy is such a disruptive force. at worst we franchise tag him for 2 yrs after yr 5.
 
badboy said:
All of you liking Mollywhopper's post need to rethink. Taylor could start for many teams including Houston. He has done well this season for Buffalo and his contract plus not being a choice of new regime is his 'crime'. If Texans are going to advance in future, we need more than a Savage type behind Watson who may or not be ready for regular season. I think we will have to draft a back up for DW but that guy will not offer much if our starter goes down.
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If the Texans are going to advance in the future they're going to need Watson healthy..



Period.
 
justmy2cents said:
What would you guess Clowney's value to be? It seems as though he is beginning to peak. I searched team needs and a couple of mock drafts. I think it was Walter Football that I found the Browns using our 1st rounder on a 4/3 DE .... wonder if they would trade it back ? I saw this offensive line fiasco coming years ago, and have been lobbying hard and often for an OL rebuild. We evidently struck gold with Watson, and it would be sheer madness to fail once more, to acquire solid talent to protect him !!
Click to expand...
Makes sense, just not sure if we could ever find a team to do it. Clowney will likely wait on free agency to test the market, possibly getting over 20 million per year from a team that will be willing to risk it to see what he can do at his natural 4-3 DE position. IMO he is not worth that kind of money based on his play here. He is playing very well, just not 20 million well in this scheme. Getting something for Clowney before we outright lose him in FA would be great.
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post you quoted I want to respond to..gs 27 to clarify Clowney is under contract thru 2018 as it is a fifth year option that was picked up by Houston and why his non guaranteed base is almost $14 million.

2 cents I agree with you wanting to build oline and was why I suggest Clowney as trade bait. I like him but doubt we can do much to protect Watson this off season. Dawkins would be strong step in that direction as would have Peterman as a back up QB. As Clowney's play continues it would take a huge deal (see what we got for Brown) to move him.
 
Mollywhopper said:
If the Texans are going to advance in the future they're going to need Watson healthy..



Period.
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We agree but what are options? Trading all three 3rds (502 points) gets us to 8th pick in second round which is good if there is a quality tackle there. Conor McDermott UT had fallen before his knee injury as some teams reportedly had him round three or 4. Even if he heals, I'd prefer to avoid injured players. Also do we want to give up three good players for a possible ten year tackle? I am not saying no but am hesitant and why I like these discussions.
 
badboy said:
We agree but what are options? Trading all three 3rds (502 points) gets us to 8th pick in second round which is good if there is a quality tackle there. Conor McDermott UT had fallen before his knee injury as some teams reportedly had him round three or 4. Even if he heals, I'd prefer to avoid injured players. Also do we want to give up three good players for a possible ten year tackle? I am not saying no but am hesitant and why I like these discussions.
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Haven't had the near the time I have in the past to be up to snuff on this year's draft class. So can't say with any confidence what specific move(s) should be made to grab any particular player(s). That said I'd prefer this FO focus their remaining assets on whatever has to be done to protect our shiny new franchise toy (DW) and the backend of our once feared defense with all else BPA. Be looking in the coming weeks to get down to brass tacks on guys that are worth targeting in either the third or in a packaged move up scenario. Appreciate any heads up on guys you've liked thus far, McDermott for example.
 
Best thing about KC McDermott (Miami) is experience on left side; 2016 as a junior he played 9 at LG and last 4 LT. He has a new OC to prove his skills to. He has the size and is a 'trim' 310 at 6'6". as of the 15th, PFF had him rated
18th ranked tackle in the country, McDermott has allowed one sack, two QB hits, and five QB hurries on on 340 pass blocking snaps. McDermott’s 98.2 pass blocking efficiency is among one of the best for the tackle position looking ahead to the 2018 NFL Draft.
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. He seems to me only avg at pass blocking but pretty good at run blocking. He might be ok at RG but may drop into day three. TBH, I am not a huge fan of Miami even though they are 10-0 and ranked #2.
 
Players I like that should be available to us:

OTs: round 3 Brian O'Neil Pittsburgh PFF at one point had him zero sacks in 366 pass snaps. Does he return to school if he gets third round eval?
round 3 Andre Dillard Wash St RS Jr who also could return. I would look at him Comp 3rd
round 3 Tyrell Crosby Oregon looked sluggish after missing '16 but like him.

round 4 this would be a comp if that happens Brandon Parker NC A&T *note I have not watched him but 6'8" 310 stats pre 2017= zero sacks only 4 flags, 107.5 wingspan. 2016 48 knock downs graded 87%

round 6 Arron Stennie James Madison
round 6 RT Beau Nunn Appalachian in 2016 graded 93%, 50 knock downs 15 were pancakes. Has allowed one sack in 704 plays. Just to note his cohort at RG I'm looking at Colby Gossett 6'6" 320 2016 50 knock downs [72 in 2015], 13 pancakes, 1 sack allowed grade 88%.

Regardless of who we draft I would consider both of these guys.
 
badboy said:
Players I like that should be available to us:

OTs: round 3 Brian O'Neil Pittsburgh PFF at one point had him zero sacks in 366 pass snaps. Does he return to school if he gets third round eval?
round 3 Andre Dillard Wash St RS Jr who also could return. I would look at him Comp 3rd
round 3 Tyrell Crosby Oregon looked sluggish after missing '16 but like him.

round 4 this would be a comp if that happens Brandon Parker NC A&T *note I have not watched him but 6'8" 310 stats pre 2017= zero sacks only 4 flags, 107.5 wingspan. 2016 48 knock downs graded 87%

round 6 Arron Stennie James Madison
round 6 RT Beau Nunn Appalachian in 2016 graded 93%, 50 knock downs 15 were pancakes. Has allowed one sack in 704 plays. Just to note his cohort at RG I'm looking at Colby Gossett 6'6" 320 2016 50 knock downs [72 in 2015], 13 pancakes, 1 sack allowed grade 88%.

Regardless of who we draft I would consider both of these guys.
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I like it, O'Neil Needs to get stronger and probably isn't coming out.

Crosby is PFF's #1 ranked OT, you will need to trade up into the 2nd to get him.

Parker's a huge guy who's very strong. If he's there in the 3rd you pick him. Untapped potential but the talent is there. Chance he goes late 1st/early 2nd after the show I think he's going to put on at the Sr. Bowl.

Stennie doesn't have feet for OT in the NFL. I believe he could be a really good OG though. I believe he got hurt and is out for the season.

I haven't watched the App. St. guys.

You should check out Will Hernandez/Logan Tuley Tillman. Tuley- Tillman got kicked out of Michigan for filming himself having sex with a girl. (Got charged with 3 felonies and did 2 yrs of probation) (I don't blame him after all of the sexual harassment/rape charges involving players and girls.) Went to Akron last yr and is playing at UTEP this yr as a graduate student. Seems to move well enough to pay LT and is funtionally strong. Got to get WF's take on him. I cant believe UTEP hasn't won a game with these 2 guys on their OL.

Check my mock draft v 1.0 and tell me what you think.
 
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