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Backlash Against Russell Begins
- Thread starter kastofsna
- Start date
texans83
Rookie
yea we are all hoping for that but this thread is about the two qbs
Really? You haven't seen the "pretty boy" post or the "can't win the big game" arguement on this message board. The media has Quinn falling out of the top 10. Last year the knock on Lienart was his lack of mobility and arm strength.
By the way, when Manning was coming out of Tennessee the knock on him was his "happy feet" and the "he can't win the big game" arguement. How did that turn out for him?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
all the players get knocked about something...but that's not what I'm talking about. All the QB's didn't endure what Young did last year here on this board and you can't begin to compare that Leinart took the abuse that Young did last year...not even close...and some of the stupid things I've seen on Russell this year has been...well, stupid (not talking about in this thread...just in general). It's like some of you guys don't watch any games...just repeat ridiculous assertions.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
leinart was never an option for houston, so no one here talked about him at all. however, the national media and scouts had plenty of negatives to bring out about both players. it's just the way it is. nothing about race.
what has been said about russell that is "stupid" exactly?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
You lead the pack on this and were one of the biggest loudmouth Young bashers last year leading into the draft. Plenty of people talked about Leinart last year but he didn't have near the abuse that Young took.....and I know...I read almost all this crap since I have to.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Titan "Tack" Fan;606662 said:
I would have loved to see Brady Quinn playing at LSU. I would disagree with you to think he would have played the same. LSU has an incredible game and is what kept LSU in most of the games they played and some of the ones they won.
One thing quinn didn't have at ND is an elite defense like LSU, and when you play some of the big schools like Mich, USC. etc...you're going to need that if you want to have a chance.
Lets look at the big games people talk about that quinn "lost" last year.
-Michigan- ND's defense allowed 47 pts.
-USC-ND's defense allowed 44 pts.
-LSU-ND's defense allowed 41 pts.
nobody is going to win those big games when the opponent scores that much consistently.
Navy_Chris
Rookie
If I were Al Davis (which i'm glad i'm not), I'd try my hardest to trade down. They have TOO many holes to fill.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
That happens to every player. Maybe you just notice the black players over the white players more.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
That has a lot to do with where he went to school. Aggies hate on him because he's from UT and I hate on him because he left, mostly, and because he's with a rival.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
russell and young are completely different prospects. i know thats not what your getting at at all though. you are right to an extent though. i gave young a hard time cuz i'm more of an aggie fan, and i'm an ole miss fan and russell went to LSWho? jk
I like some of the things from both QB's though. Young i was never high on before the draft and will be the first to admit he completely blew me away last year. i didn't think he'd make that big of an impact that early, but i was right about his arm.. he isn't the passer one would want....the reason he won his games were because of his legs...picking up key first downs and td's. thats not a bad thing though..it works now so he'll use it, we'll just see how long that lasts. hopefully he has a good career but not against us.
Russell on the other hand has an incredible arm and huge size. everyone knows his arm strength. he's also a very smart guy and could be a coach some day. with that said he makes a lot of very dumb decisions and its only going to magnify his problem in the nfl. he is fairly mobile...for his size...he can dodge a few tackles and is strong enough to get the throw off, but he really needs to work on his accuracy, work on his weight imo and decision making. that's going to be hard to do if he has to go in and start right away with no line....see oakland raiders.
I like some of the things from both QB's though. Young i was never high on before the draft and will be the first to admit he completely blew me away last year. i didn't think he'd make that big of an impact that early, but i was right about his arm.. he isn't the passer one would want....the reason he won his games were because of his legs...picking up key first downs and td's. thats not a bad thing though..it works now so he'll use it, we'll just see how long that lasts. hopefully he has a good career but not against us.
Russell on the other hand has an incredible arm and huge size. everyone knows his arm strength. he's also a very smart guy and could be a coach some day. with that said he makes a lot of very dumb decisions and its only going to magnify his problem in the nfl. he is fairly mobile...for his size...he can dodge a few tackles and is strong enough to get the throw off, but he really needs to work on his accuracy, work on his weight imo and decision making. that's going to be hard to do if he has to go in and start right away with no line....see oakland raiders.
run-david-run
All Pro
I think Brady Quinn has taken a substantial hit to his "stock" as well, while the highly rated white guy last year fell 7 spots from where he was projected...just saying.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
lol that's clearly the case if he thinks young was the only QB getting nitpicked last year. selective reading to state it lightly.
run-david-run
All Pro
There is no way you can deny Young took more abuse then any other player. From the Wonderlic fiasco, to his throwing motion, the claim that he was dumb and needed a simple playbook, and of course the Aggie haters. Look how that turned out...in the short term at least.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Fell from what? Mocks? just think of the word "mock" for a minute. Quinn hasn't taken a hit...NOBODY has taken a hit because the draft hasn't happened yet.
I'm not talking about where they actually landed in the draft...I'm talking about tearing down players with mindless accusations and ugly banter and personal attacks. Some of you guys just need stuff spelled out I guess.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Things will start weeding themselves out over the next few weeks. I am not completely convinced the Raiders will be taking Russell at #1. I think there is a damn good chance they take Petersen, Johnson, or Quinn by the time draft day rolls around.
One thing is for sure, Al Davis won't let stuff like signability get in the way of his decision. AD is a lot of things but with him the bottom line always has and always will be purely football.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Like it or not, Vinny has a point. The black qb in the draft goes through hell in these parts, while his white counterpart skates through. We had vince young suit threads, and hardly a peep about matt leinarts child out of wedlock. Russell is getting the treatment, and your trying to deny it and gloss over it. Its dumb. Its not Brady Quinn level dumb, but its still dumb.
Quinn better than Russell? How about you put Quinn in the SEC and hes not even in the top 5. I quess they think the SEC is the slowest not the fastest conference. Right. Just look at the players who came out of LSU. Russell is not going to be a bust. Addai, DD/williams, a bunch of defensive players, now Bowe Landry and Russell, Sure maybe he should have stayed another year to get even better but who can blame the guy when most guys who have a great Junior year come out.
Biggest hype award? This guy was not on any guys list until they pounded ND.Last time i checked he wasnt even considerd a HC until what maybe the last 2 or 3 games. ESPN says it alot them time. He just came out of nowhere. No they just had there heads so far up Quinns ass is wasnt funny. enough of my ranting for now.
Biggest hype award? This guy was not on any guys list until they pounded ND.Last time i checked he wasnt even considerd a HC until what maybe the last 2 or 3 games. ESPN says it alot them time. He just came out of nowhere. No they just had there heads so far up Quinns ass is wasnt funny. enough of my ranting for now.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Jamarcus Russell is a very smart football player.
It is very unfair to say quinn would be nothing if put in the SEC. I would have to disagree. put him on ANY sec team and he would be one of the best QBs in the entire nation. to say other wise would be rediculous.
Eli Manning was one of the best quarterbacks in the nation on ole miss. he should have won the heisman but jason white stole it away from him beacuse oklahoma had such a talented team. put brady quinn on any team on the SEC and they would instantly be national contendors. Moreso than LSU, FLorida, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc.
don't be too over presumptuous to say quinn is overrated before you say he couldnt do #$#$@ in the SEC. I know before ANYONE he'd be better than 11/12 of the quarterbacks in the sec. don't over exhagerate stuff just because you don't like him.
Allow me to spell a few things out.
I wasn't thinking race at all until you brought it up. I see JR as a QB, not a black QB. But since I posted a criticism of the guy in here ... omg....I guess I need to explain.
I found it a bit odd that a QB (not a black QB) who is a consensus #1 pick in the draft could be "surprised" at what he weighed at the combine. Will that matter on draft day? Probably not. It just caught my attention. But not anywhere near the scale of Quinn getting crushed by LSU catching my attention.
I have voiced far harsher criticism of Quinn than Russell. In fact, I think my "he looked a little flabby at the weigh in" comment is about the only thing I've ever said negative about Russell.
I watch a 'ton' of SEC football too - LSU happens to be one of the teams I watch the most - and I am truly excited about the prospect of watching JR play at the next level.
It's well known that I wanted Vince in here last year.
So, instead of another general comment to "you guys," (which I guess could include authors of any or all of the 33 posts prior to your whipping boy comment) I would like to ask that you address the person in particular that you have a problem with instead of throwing everyone under the virtual racist bus, including those of us who posted a legit criticism of a player without regard to his race.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Okay, I don't know where to start. Who is dumb as toast and why? Why couldn't he draft his way out of a paper bag? Vinny does have a point on a lot of things, I respect him on a lot of points he makes, but what is it your talking about?
sure maybe the black quarterback does go through hell. but i'm tired of hell of making it black and white GDAMNIT. Russell has his faults just like Vince has his. Quinn has his faults just like Leinart had his. You know what....why don't y'all look at it this way.
Quinn is a senior...has been locked at as the favorite quarterback for some time. Russell is a junior and declared early....thus forcing some competition on quinn and many people feel very differently about each player...including russell who younger and may demand more criticism, not because he's black but because he's an underclassman.
Leinart was a senior...had been locked as the favorite quarterback for some time. young was a junior and declared early...thus forcing some competition on leinart and many people felt very differently about each player...including young who way younger and might have demanded more criticism, not because he was black but because he was an underclassman.
I understand pulling the race card sometimes...but other times it just pisses me off like none other. I don't understand why people (white or black) do that #$#%. It makes me madder than anything in the entire world.
I don't understand why people bring that #$%^ up. I am white, I will admit it, I don't give a flying flip. vince young, jamarcus russell are better than a lot of white quarterbacks. there i said it...is that so bad? There are a lot of white quarterbacks that are better than black quarterbacks. so i said that...sue me. kick me off. i don't care...i'm not being racist. im telling it like it is....
joe montana (white) has been a better pro QB than Aaron Brooks (black).
donovan mcnabb (black) has been a better pro QB than Rex Grossman (white).
who really care....i'd take McNabb in a heart beat and he's black...and omg believe it or not...i'm a white guy! wow!!
i have legitimate criticisms about both young and russell. not because they are black but beacuse they are both .....Younger(underclassmen/juniors) and quarterbacks in the NCAA!!!!
I also have legitimate criticisms about both Leinart, Cutler, and Quinn...they are all seniors...and also quarterbacks!!!!
aahhhh the chaos. jesus christos. senores.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
hey this is my first post on this thread so I guess that rules me out 
actually I only veiwed because I saw AJ post (love reading your candid on the mark comments).
here is my criticism of JaMarcus- consistancy. something we know Kubiak has been harping on. I love the fact he stepped up & played great when it counted but where was that performance all season long? then to suddenly assume the #1 position over another prospect who really does deserve it & been consistant all season in Calvin Johnson is like trying to catch VY in a bottle, can't be done.
that said system, system, system will determine the success of any QB coming into the league, how he adapts to the talent around him, his leadership skills & decision making. it also doesnt hurt if he's got a cannon for an arm or roller skates for wheels. but for goodness sakes he hasnt done anything really since the bowl game & all hes done is go from a mid first rd pick to #1 faster than Vince Young. in the end they are two different football players with compeletly different styles.
actually I only veiwed because I saw AJ post (love reading your candid on the mark comments).
here is my criticism of JaMarcus- consistancy. something we know Kubiak has been harping on. I love the fact he stepped up & played great when it counted but where was that performance all season long? then to suddenly assume the #1 position over another prospect who really does deserve it & been consistant all season in Calvin Johnson is like trying to catch VY in a bottle, can't be done.
that said system, system, system will determine the success of any QB coming into the league, how he adapts to the talent around him, his leadership skills & decision making. it also doesnt hurt if he's got a cannon for an arm or roller skates for wheels. but for goodness sakes he hasnt done anything really since the bowl game & all hes done is go from a mid first rd pick to #1 faster than Vince Young. in the end they are two different football players with compeletly different styles.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
okay i'll admit i'm
while posting this....i forgot the whole reason why i took you're post "personal"
I have a child out of wedlock, and i'm white too. heaven forbid!!!
Please don't put personal attacks or enuendos towards players.
keep towards football related 'attacks' ie.... performs bad under pressure, doesn't scramble well, throws towards covered receivers,....etc.
don't hold having children out of wedlock against anybody. there's many football players that have children out of wedlock..both black and white. i'm white and am no where near a football player and have a child out of wedlock.
you can hold run ins against the law against a player...ie..when he gets arrested for drugs, sexual misconduct, battery, burgluray, felonies...etc.
none of which i hope have any relavence towary jamarcus russell. as far as i know he is free an clear. sorry to bring all this up in this thread... however if anybody disagrees please let me know...why and.....why.. thank you.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
okay i'll admit i'm
i forgot the whole reason why i took you're post "personal"
I have a child out of wedlock, and i'm white too. heaven forbid!!!
Please don't put personal attacks or enuendos towards players.
keep towards football related 'attacks' ie.... performs bad under pressure, doesn't scramble well, throws towards covered receivers,....etc.
don't hold having children out of wedlock against anybody. there's many football players that have children out of wedlock..both black and white. i'm white and am no where near a football player and have a child out of wedlock.
you can hold run ins against the law against a player...ie..when he gets arrested for drugs, sexual misconduct, battery, burgluray, felonies...etc.
none of which i hope have any relavence towary jamarcus russell. as far as i know he is free an clear. sorry to bring all this up in this thread... however if anybody disagrees please let me know...why and.....why.. thank you.
Kast was the one my post was directed to. I didn't personally attack the player, i could give a rats ass about matt leinarts kid or yours for that matter. I was using that as an example to show that the two players (leinart and young) were not treated equally on this board pre or post draft.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Your right they weren't--Leinart was never even a consideration because he wasn't local while Young was.
I didn't buy into the racial reasoning on Young last year and I don't now. This year, I'd say there is more doubt, scrutiny, whatever about Quinn than Russell. Poll Texan fans about who they would rather take at #8 Russell or Quinn if both are available at #8 and I bet you get a preponderance of Russell. Same result would have happened for Young last year. Not seeing the Texan fans are racist argument.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=18745
thats my point about our fans. Huge arguement blasting Vince Young
Here is the thread about Matt Leinart having an illegitimate child
http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=27337&highlight=Leinart
its 3 pages, mostly jokes about him being a ladies man.
I can't pull it up, but i remember a LOT of talk in the threads about Moulds potentially coming here about him having multiple children by multiple mothers, and he got ripped for pages about it.
Im not one to pull the race card at every opportunity, but I think there is some merit to this particular theory on this particular board. I think if Vince did what Matt did, he would get ripped to shreds, and if Matt did what Vince did he would skate.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
lol he DOESN'T have a point, because that's WRONG. this has been the only negative thread about russell at ALL, and every single thread that has mentioned brady quinn has been extremely negative. and there's been a bunch. there was like three at one time titled "brady quinn." you had a few guys saying "yeah quinn is good i'll take him" but most of them were "hey he's a choker i dont want him he sucks reminds me of carr boo" etc etc. russell hasn't gotten even REMOTELY near the bashing quinn has got. vinny is flat-out WRONG.
lol @ calling brady quinn dumb. ****ing hysterical.
Silver Oak
All Pro
VY brought it on himself. Leinert didn't come to town proclaiming his desire to play here and jumping in front of every TV camera to say so.
To insinuate it's a racial deal is petty and not too bright.
mexican_texan
Furry Tractors
Russell is under more scrutiny than Quinn because most people wrote off Quinn. I don't think more than four posters have said they liked Quinn.
As I said before, and as has been mentioned, VY is heavily scrutinized because
a) He's local
b) He went to UT
c) He plays for the Titans.
As I said before, and as has been mentioned, VY is heavily scrutinized because
a) He's local
b) He went to UT
c) He plays for the Titans.
That thing about him being a pocket(something we don't have in H-Town) passer kinda killed it as well. That, and the fact that a lot of people on this board felt he was helped by all the talent he had on his team. While even though Vince's team was pretty talented as well, it's easier to "visualize" Vince doing more with less.
I agree... the only folks I can think of that didn't want Vince on this team, were either related to David, just plain stupid, or both....... (just kidding).
But again, I point to the media... they've been pumping Reggie all year and trying to shoe horn him as the #1 overall, most exciting, most captivating, most orgasmic player to ever grace the NFL that they took it out on anyone who threatened him(them).
Quinn... & Notre Dame had one really good stretch of a season when Charlie Weiss first got to that program. & Quinn's "stock" was pretty much built on that stretch, and a few "hot" games here & there. IMHO, Quinn is the "Emperor with New Clothes"... a media darling that really hadn't done anything to even be considered a #1 pick overall. Sure he's got talent(hint... hint, they all do), and he's a gamer, & It wouldn't bother me if the Texans selected him with the #8 overall.
If it makes you feel anybetter, I don't think Jamarcus Russell should be the #1 overall either.
I believe Calvin Johnson is the best prospect overall in this draft, followed by Adrian Peterson, but the #1 & #2 teams should have Joe Thomas at the top of their boards. Detroit should go AD, Cleveland chould take Calvin Johnson.
One way or another, that should be the top three. In my mind, if either QB goes in the top three, then that's due to poor team management, or media hype.
But that's just me.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The only thing a difference in length in those threads proves is Leinart wasn't even a consideration here. There was basically no one here last year trumpeting for the Texans to take what most draft gurus had as the top QB up until very shortly before the draft. That says the fans cared a whole lot more about hometown than they did about race.