Babin Quote

[cuppacoffee]

In Sat. mornings Chronic

Quoting Babin, discussing the trade with the Titans that landed Babin here.

"Its real frustrating to not be able to play. I didn't even know who they got (in the trade). If a team wants to give up pick to get a higher pick, that's their prerogative. It's the price of playing poker in this league."

Maybe I am too critical and read way too much into quotes.
It would have encouraged me more to hear him state something that sounded a little more positive. Maybe something along the line " I will prove that Mr Casserly and the scouts were right about me when they traded up to draft me".
But then thats just me.

If it was poker I am afraid that four of a kind (roster players) will beat a joker anytime.

TE Ben Troupe rookie franchise record with 33 receptions
Randy Starks led all rookie defensive tackles with 4 1/2 sacks in 2004
DE Bo Schobel missed most of 2004 injured.
Jacob Bell started at left guard as a rookie and made the All-Rookie team.

Could we use a TE?
Starks 4 1/2 sacks? Is that more than our entire team?
A promising left guard?

Nah, we would rather draft a three year project. Thats Cass's estimate, not mine.

Thats my


cac:

 

[Vinny]

It's easy to pick apart a sentence from the players. I don't see anything I'd consider condeming about that. The team mishandled this Babin injury situation and him being benched because of that....it really gave the fans a platform to further dog him and put even more pressure on him. Sad and poorly handled by this team.

ps - A link would be nice for easy confirmation cac.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I think Babin is just saying that he can't worry about a trade and draft picks. That I agree with. Players can't worry about business type stuff. he can only concentate on becoming a better football player and getting healthy.

Now Casserly on the other hand needs to be really worried about that kind of stuff.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

This is not Babin's fault . The Texans brass decided to trade up for him thinking they can cherry pick their prospects because their on the brink of being a playoff team . Fast forward a year and we sure could use those picks .

 

[aj.]

"We haven't given up on him. When he's healthy, we expect good things from him. He's just got to get healthy. The injury was worse than we thought."

- Casserly on Bosel...errr Jopp....errrr....Holl....errr....Babin from the same Chron article referenced above.

Can't blame the player for being injured but you sure can hold the GM accountable for trading the house, or at least the apartment, for one player; and the coaching staff and scouts accountable for the talent grade.

I'd rather have multiple 'good' players than roll the dice on one that 'might' become dominant in three years - after they learn how to play the position of course.

I said that after the draft in '04 so this isn't bandwagon dogging. After the Dunta pick, I drove home to catch the rest of the draft on tv and all the feelings of bewilderment and pissed-offness I felt then after pick 27 are coming back strong right now.

 

[TexasJedi]

I'll say one thing. It may seem odd, but I feel better about Babin knowing he has supposedly been injured since the Oakland preseason game. That has to be the reason for his poor play this season. He struggled at times during his rookie season, but he always played hard and looked to be making strides.

 

[powda]

maybe i missed an article or sound bite from the radio...maybe not ,but it seems to me babin was used as a propaganda piece for about a week after the loss to the steelers.

the fans are pissed...the team isnt playing up to their potential....what do we do?

-can the oc. good.

so whats the d gonna change?

-dont worry folks we've isolated the problem...we're gonna bench babin and buchannon. buchannon...good. babin? why were we led to believe the team was making drastic changes because of his subpar play? why didnt they say right off that he was injured? it brought undo pressure on him.

shouldve been handled better.

 

[Lucky]

...it brought undo pressure on him.

shouldve been handled better.

Babin brought it on himself by not disclosing his injury. Not professional on his part.

 

[Vinny]

Since when is it normal for players to announce injuries so other players can take hits on that part of his body? If the team knew about it (Casserly said they knew about it since the Oakland practices) aren't they the ones bound to disclose it?

 

[aj.]

The Chronicle article said that the coaches didn't know the extent of the injury until they reviewed the Steelers game film and saw that he was basically playing with one arm. Apparently Babin didn't let on to the extent of the injury. I heard Casserly say yesterday that he (Casserly, and I would presume Babin) were aware of the injury all the way back to the practice sessions against the Raiders in preseason but the party line now is that they weren't aware of the severity.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/sports/3387619

 

[Vinny]

thanks...I got the impression with Casserly's comments on 610am (was doing multiple things and may not have been listening well) that Babin's injury was known since the Oakland practice.

 

[Vinny]

"I didn't realize at the time (during the Pittsburgh game) how much (his shoulder) was bothering him," Capers said. "After I watched the tape, I saw he was pretty much a one-armed player. So we wanted to get it examined. After our medical staff examined it, we felt that resting and rehabbing it would be the best procedure. He got a second opinion. Right now, he's rehabbing it."

This still makes me think that the team handled his injury poorly. When they benched him after the Steeler game they never mentioned the injury...just the fact that there were "changes" being made (at least right off the bat). I think that was unfair to Babin in a climate where he already has a ton of pressure since he represents so many picks.

 

[Lucky]

Since when is it normal for players to announce injuries so other players can take hits on that part of his body? If the team knew about it (Casserly said they knew about it since the Oakland practices) aren't they the ones bound to disclose it?

Here's the Babin injury timeline as I understand it:

1) Babin injures shoulder in camp during practices with Raiders
2) Babin plays poorly week 2 against Steelers, is benched during game
3) Capers announces Shantee Orr starts over Babin at LOLB
4) After reviewing game tape, Capers notices Babin is favoring his shoulder
5) Babin undergoes exams and is found to have a torn labrum

I haven't seen anything to suggest Babin ever disclosed his injury to the team.

 

[aj.]

Deeds not words.

Works both ways - in terms of what we see vs. what we hear from management.

 

[Vinny]

Here's the Babin injury timeline as I understand it:

1) Babin injures shoulder in camp during practices with Raiders
2) Babin plays poorly week 2 against Steelers, is benched during game
3) Capers announces Shantee Orr starts over Babin at LOLB
4) After reviewing game tape, Capers notices Babin is favoring his shoulder
5) Babin undergoes exams and is found to have a torn labrum

I haven't seen anything to suggest Babin ever disclosed his injury to the team.

You are probably right...but still, that's just a guess since the team has been so cryptic. I would guess that they would review the game tape before they demote a starter. It's hard to believe his shoulder was that injured and nobody noticed at all.

 

[Lucky]

You are probably right...but still, that's just a guess since the team has been so cryptic. It's hard to believe his shoulder was that injured and nobody noticed at all.

That is hard to believe. I know there were fans complaining about Babin's effort in preseason. I never really paid attention to it.

 

[aj.]

When I heard Casserly yesterday, he made it sound as if he (Casserly) and the coaches were aware of the injury when it happened vs. Babin finally fessing up now that it happened then. I may have the daily injury report from then... I'll go back and look.

 

[Vinny]

Lucky, I would guess that they would review the game tape before they demote a starter.

that would be great aj..thanks.

 

[Lucky]

Lucky, I would guess that they would review the game tape before they demote a starter.

Vinny, they benched Babin and Showtime during the Steeler game. The announcement just made it "official". What with the firing of Palmer and the bye week coming up, I'm guessing the game tape review took a backseat that week.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Don't they lift weights during the week . I've tried to lift with a sore shoulder ... it hurts .
When Babin was drafted I thought we traded up because he was a pass rushing fool . Then we put him on the strong side . Most pass rushing fools play the weak side . I think thats right .
Drafting is an inexact science to begin with . Drafting for a 3-4 defense is even more inexact . Drafting a player from a small school to convert to another position in a 3-4 is a small target .

 

[powda]

game played on sunday.

coaches review tape on monday. (same day of pendry's promotion i believe).

tuesday of that same week (i think) babin and buchannon are not playing with the first team.

for the next week i have to read article after article about faggins and orr, with no word of an injury to babin till about 3 days before the bengal game.

and blaming babin may be just a little justified ,but then whens the last time you heard of a pitcher taking himself out of a game. these guys are competitive and playing with injuries happens all the time.

babin's benching was played off as a solution to our problems and a statement to the team(and fans) rather then what it was...an injury. thats not babin's fault.

 

[powda]

he was taken out of the game...in hindsight that was a good move by the coaches. he was "formally benched" a couple days later. we had the bye-week and thats when the team used him as a scapegoat for about a week. thats the part i dont agree with.

 

[Lucky]

I went back and saw that Babin did miss the Tampa Bay preseason game. So the coaches and training staff knew something was wrong. Didn't they take an MRI or some kind of exam on the shoulder then? Seems like the Texans are at least guilty of neglect. I'm just glad that wasn't an 100% Babin. I'm certain he can play better than that when healthy. I'm not going to give up on him.

 

[powda]

I'm certain he can play better than that when healthy. I'm not going to give up on him.

nor am i. im not sure he'll live up to the trade ,but i think he can be a solid starter---and i have seen flashes. if you go back to the vikings game in particular last year he caused lots of disruption.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I think Capers saw the next Kevin Greene . CC got caught up in the rumor mill about teams trading up for Babin . Dare I say CC is gulible .

 

[Jax54]

I constantly read this message board but don't post often but I wanted to make a point.

I was wondering about Babin myself, so i will give my 2 cents here, if he was playing injured and it was known to the team, then I have to say WOW the kid is playing with a great deal of heart and desire that seems to be lacking from the rest of the team.

Now if he was playing and the team was unaware of the injury (which I find highly unlikely) not a great move on his behalf, but the heart and desire is still there, but not a good move to put the team in a situation with the OLB playing with one arm.

Last year he was learning not only the position, but the speed of the NFL, things were most likely 'slowing down' this season he was knowing where to go, and what too look for, then only to get injured in the preseason practice.(btw I think preseason is too long) Hopefully he heals up and has a strong showing.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Malloy]

I'll say one thing. It may seem odd, but I feel better about Babin knowing he has supposedly been injured since the Oakland preseason game. That has to be the reason for his poor play this season. He struggled at times during his rookie season, but he always played hard and looked to be making strides.

I would have liked him benched from the start then, not too smart to play with an injury. And as in this case, the injury got worse (at least that's how I'm reading it). he should have benched himself the second he felt that something was not okay.

 

[aj.]

I think Capers saw the next Kevin Greene . CC got caught up in the rumor mill about teams trading up for Babin . Dare I say CC is gulible .

Fangio had as much or more to do with setting the "gotta have him" tone as anyone prior to the draft.

 

[lucky13]

When Babin was drafted I thought we traded up because he was a pass rushing fool . Then we put him on the strong side . Most pass rushing fools play the weak side . I think thats right . .

don't you know casserly outthinks the league?

 

[wrestler4life]

I think that the fact that the team mishandled Babin and his injury, and that they gave up so many picks to get him when they could have been a little more patient and trade fewer picks for another second rounder, just proves how poor our front office and staff are. I am severely displeased with how we are being managed and coached.

 

[nunusguy]

"Dr. James Andrews agreed with the Texans doctors. Babin should wait a few weeks to see if the injury will heal. If not, he'll undergo surgery and be ready for camp next season. "
*************************************************
Babin's injury has the potential to be a season ending injury according to the
Chron article. To say the Texans handled this situation poorley is being very
charitable to them because I think its been handled in a downright egregious
manner, nothing short of that. I don't want to pile on the Texans HC and others at what is a tough time for them anyway, but they finding new and inventive ways to demonstrate their incompatence.

 

[Wolf]

Hindsight is 20/20 of course.. but what has happened to the Texans IMO.. is we went bang or bust..Looking back. Boselli and Young (which at the time Young was supposed to be an up and comer and Boselli was cleard by our doctors AND NFL doctors) .. There is 2/5 of our line that didn't pan out.. We gambled on Hollings ..didn't work so far.. we are gambling on PBuc..who has talent just doesn't play to his potential. Hopefully he will straighten out..

As far as Babin..I think he will be solid when we get the defense squared away. We have yet to see a defense that swarms and attacks from all angels.. I have no idea why we aren't doing it.

 

[the wonger need food]

"Look, going from college to playing outside linebacker in the NFL is a three-year transition period," Casserly said about Babin, 6-2 and 255 pounds. "He had a decent rookie year. We expected him to improve this season, but he got hurt the third week of preseason."



Oh... it's a 3-year transition. That explains it.

I think everyone in the organization should wear a wristband with a list of excuses to reference, if they don't already.

 

[SheTexan]

hummmmmmm!! Isn't hunting season coming up real soon??!

 

[nunusguy]

The longer I think about this Babin injury, the more suspicous it all sounds.
But more to the point, why fool around with it because it sounds like an operation is inevitable. Besides, whats the point in rehabing and resting him
a few weeks - to save him for later in the season when we make our playoff run. Yeah, right ! If they are gonna need to cut on Babin, do it and begin the
long process of rest, rehab and ultimately recovery and getting ready for next years football season. And if I was Babin, I would definitely be getting some independant advise of my own about something that could end be even more serious than a season ending injury, as if that's not serious enough.

 

[Youngstown Colt]

TE Ben Troupe rookie franchise record with 33 receptions
Randy Starks led all rookie defensive tackles with 4 1/2 sacks in 2004
DE Bo Schobel missed most of 2004 injured.
Jacob Bell started at left guard as a rookie and made the All-Rookie team.

I had no idea they got all those players from that draft. Wow.

 

[THEFUTURE]

as far as i understood the injury, the coaches knew about him aggravating it, they asked him if he could still play, he said yes. so the coaches let him.

i dont blame babin for saying he can play, any athelete that ever played a game doesnt want to be looked at poorly, he wants to be able to fight through the pain, the coaching staff should have done a more thorough job, and not allowed him to keep playing

 

[JustBonee]

At some point during the Raiders game .. Babin came off the field briskly, with a pained expression ... and proceeded to walk around 'oddly'. .. he kept on moving around, but not talking to anyone, or really looking composed. He seemed a little 'anxious'.... best way I can put it. I remember thinking to myself that was odd. ... but I didn't know his ways .... ??
I thought at the time that he had done something really bad on the field and was agonizing over a chewing out ... but no coaches said anything to him ... and a little while later he was standing with hands on hips getting play instructions. So I then forgot about it.
But that pain stricken look! .. I can still see it.
I say all this because he was no more then 15' right down in front of me when this took place.
And obviously I pay more attention to detail then the Texan coaches .. ...lol

 

[nunusguy]

i dont blame babin for saying he can play, any athelete that ever played a game doesnt want to be looked at poorly, he wants to be able to fight through the pain, the coaching staff should have done a more thorough job, and not allowed him to keep playing

Very insightful Future, because anybody who has played some ball as it sounds like you have knows the coaches want you, expect you to "play thru the pain". I mean what are you, a little girl or something, can't handle some pain ? But the coaching staff failed to discern the underlying seriousness of
this injury that involved a first round draft pick.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

This still makes me think that the team handled his injury poorly. When they benched him after the Steeler game they never mentioned the injury...just the fact that there were "changes" being made (at least right off the bat). I think that was unfair to Babin in a climate where he already has a ton of pressure since he represents so many picks.

Yes, Vinny its what I have been saying all along. This coaching staff is killing us and the players are just as much a victum as the FANS, OWNER, and CASSERLY. You know that has been my opinion for a long time. Capers nevers takes any credit for the blame...................

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Don't you understand he suppose to play where Capers thinks he should play, not where you think the best place for him should be. I don't understand where your coming from. You know Capers knows best...........Right!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hervoyel]

When taken with past events I can only conclude the following things from all of this.
This organization can never be trusted to tell the truth where injuries are concerned. Now you could say that is true to some extent with every team in the NFL, NBA, and MLB but I think the Texans are a bit over the line (or at least what I consider to be "the line") when it comes to reporting injuries or, really to be honest reporting any sort of event that one might normally find out about through the press or from the team itself. When they tell you that someone is going to "compete for a job" for example (Wand, Riley) they're lying. I don't know if Babin's injury is what they say it is or isn't what they say it is. Based on everything I've seen to date I can't tell if a move (of any kind) is legitimate or if it's just spin to keep the fans smiling and thinking positive.

Starting with Boselli we've heard story after story about all kinds of players on this team. Just look at Wand alone. At first he was an exciting prospect who needed a lot of work, then he was the starting LT who was way ahead of where the team expected him to be. Later he was the guy who probably got greenlighted to start a year early. Then he became the guy who was going to have to compete for his job with Victor Riley. Finally he turned out to be the guy who got replaced by a journeyman after about 13 seconds of "competition" for his job. Looking back I'm surprised "an injury" didn't factor into that roller coaster ride as well. Much of what has happened with Wand directly contradicts other things that have happened with Wand.

We got weird info when Buchanon was aquired too. Not much that was said about Aaron Glenn turned out to be true at that time.

I'm just starting to feel like the Texans are more likely to lie to me about anything they do than tell the truth. Maybe that's odd but that's what it seems like to me.

 

[texan279]

Texans | Babin Suffers Torn Labrum from www.kffl.com
Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:21:56 -0700

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans LB Jason Babin (shoulder) has a torn labrum that might require season-ending surgery. Babin will wait a few weeks to see if it improves on its own before deciding on having surgery.

From what I am finding on the net, a few weeks rest could work, just depends on the severity of the injury and location of the tear. This could be really bad though...

LINK

Until the final diagnosis is made, your physician may prescribe anti-inflammatory medication and rest to relieve symptoms. Rehabilitation exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles may also be recommended. If these conservative measures are insufficient, your physician may recommend arthroscopic surgery.

After surgery, you will need to keep your shoulder in a sling for three to four weeks. Your physician will also prescribe gentle, passive, pain-free range-of-motion exercises. When the sling is removed, you will need to do motion and flexibility exercises and gradually start to strengthen your biceps. Athletes can usually begin doing sports-specific exercises after six weeks, although it will be three to four months before the shoulder is fully healed.

LINK

The San Francisco Giants' Robb Nen, one of the best relief pitchers in baseball, had off-season surgery in 2002 to "clean up loose particles" in his shoulder. What Nen didn't know is that he had a torn labrum, the fearsome modern baseball injury that strikes down pitchers quickly, stealthily, and painfully. Eighteen months and three surgeries later, Nen is still waiting to throw his next major-league pitch. The leading minds in baseball medicine are flummoxed by the labrum. Doctors can't agree on how to detect a tear, don't know the best way to fix one, and aren't sure why, almost without fail, a torn labrum will destroy a pitcher's career.

 

[AlexVanderpool]

The Chronicle article said that the coaches didn't know the extent of the injury until they reviewed the Steelers game film and saw that he was basically playing with one arm. Apparently Babin didn't let on to the extent of the injury. I heard Casserly say yesterday that he (Casserly, and I would presume Babin) were aware of the injury all the way back to the practice sessions against the Raiders in preseason but the party line now is that they weren't aware of the severity.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.mpl/sports/3387619

Yet more proof of the ineptness of our gm and coaching staff.

 

[texan279]

Yet more proof of the ineptness of our gm and coaching staff.

Yeah, if Babin does have to have season ending surgery, heads should roll. This one is all on the coaching staff.

 

[Malloy]

COULD it be, that Babin did not explain to the coaches the full extend of his injury but tried to downplay it to stay on the field? At least that's how I see this whole thing. Ofcourse it's way easier to portray Babin as the poor young player FORCED to play with injuries by the coaches, at least it's easier if one attempts to connect every Texan problem with the coaching staff. I'm sure that if the toilets at the Reliant stadium does not flush, we should fire Capers and casserly since it's obviously their fault?

 

[Runner]

Texans | Babin Suffers Torn Labrum from www.kffl.com
Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:21:56 -0700

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans LB Jason Babin (shoulder) has a torn labrum that might require season-ending surgery. Babin will wait a few weeks to see if it improves on its own before deciding on having surgery.

From what I am finding on the net, a few weeks rest could work, just depends on the severity of the injury and location of the tear. This could be really bad though...

LINK

Until the final diagnosis is made, your physician may prescribe anti-inflammatory medication and rest to relieve symptoms. Rehabilitation exercises to strengthen the rotator cuff muscles may also be recommended. If these conservative measures are insufficient, your physician may recommend arthroscopic surgery.

After surgery, you will need to keep your shoulder in a sling for three to four weeks. Your physician will also prescribe gentle, passive, pain-free range-of-motion exercises. When the sling is removed, you will need to do motion and flexibility exercises and gradually start to strengthen your biceps. Athletes can usually begin doing sports-specific exercises after six weeks, although it will be three to four months before the shoulder is fully healed.

LINK

The San Francisco Giants' Robb Nen, one of the best relief pitchers in baseball, had off-season surgery in 2002 to "clean up loose particles" in his shoulder. What Nen didn't know is that he had a torn labrum, the fearsome modern baseball injury that strikes down pitchers quickly, stealthily, and painfully. Eighteen months and three surgeries later, Nen is still waiting to throw his next major-league pitch. The leading minds in baseball medicine are flummoxed by the labrum. Doctors can't agree on how to detect a tear, don't know the best way to fix one, and aren't sure why, almost without fail, a torn labrum will destroy a pitcher's career.

The only thing I would add is that many players (mostly on the line) have this injury to varying degrees. If it isn't too bad a tear they typically play through it and it isn't considered worth reporting.

 

[Runner]

When taken with past events I can only conclude the following things from all of this.
This organization can never be trusted to tell the truth where injuries are concerned. Now you could say that is true to some extent with every team in the NFL, NBA, and MLB but I think the Texans are a bit over the line (or at least what I consider to be "the line") when it comes to reporting injuries or, really to be honest reporting any sort of event that one might normally find out about through the press or from the team itself. When they tell you that someone is going to "compete for a job" for example (Wand, Riley) they're lying. I don't know if Babin's injury is what they say it is or isn't what they say it is. Based on everything I've seen to date I can't tell if a move (of any kind) is legitimate or if it's just spin to keep the fans smiling and thinking positive.

Starting with Boselli we've heard story after story about all kinds of players on this team. Just look at Wand alone. At first he was an exciting prospect who needed a lot of work, then he was the starting LT who was way ahead of where the team expected him to be. Later he was the guy who probably got greenlighted to start a year early. Then he became the guy who was going to have to compete for his job with Victor Riley. Finally he turned out to be the guy who got replaced by a journeyman after about 13 seconds of "competition" for his job. Looking back I'm surprised "an injury" didn't factor into that roller coaster ride as well. Much of what has happened with Wand directly contradicts other things that have happened with Wand.

We got weird info when Buchanon was aquired too. Not much that was said about Aaron Glenn turned out to be true at that time.

I'm just starting to feel like the Texans are more likely to lie to me about anything they do than tell the truth. Maybe that's odd but that's what it seems like to me.

This is a good post. I used to think this team (front office) just played things closer to the vest than others, but the misinformation coming out time after time seems more like flat out lies now.

 

[GP]

"But the coaching staff failed to discern the underlying seriousness of
this injury that involved a first round draft pick." --nunusguy

----------------------------------------

IMO,

You can't hang this one on the coaches or physical trainers.

To think that a coach or a trainer "knew" exactly what the injury was, and yet continued to play Babin is absurd. They knew he was hurt, but they probably thought it was strained or bruised, etc. Until you get a good, long look at it over the course of many weeks and how it responds to treatment...most trainers ( I would think) would think it's just soreness from being aggrevated during gameplay. And if a player poo-poo's it and acts like it's no big deal, then it only makes the trainer's job more difficult. At some point, the trainers wised up and did whatever tests they needed to do because they were suspiscious that it might be something more serious than normal wear and tear. You guys are acting like they did this test months ago and they marched him out onto the field "knowing" he was damaged goods.

So when McNabb played on a broken leg/foot for most of the game, and it was later revealed that he had a broken leg/foot...but they didn't know it at the time...it's the trainer's fault because he KNEW that his leg/foot was broken, but the coaching staff made him play on it?

It's one thing to attack a coaching staff for poor game planning, strategy, playcalling, situational management, etc. I am ALL ABOARD in blaming this team's coaching staff for a poor job of coaching. But to take the blame a step further and paint the coaches as some sort of sick-minded, "play a player through major injury when they KNEW the player was badly injured" is going too far.

Those coaches and physical trainers are people like you and me, and they're not going to play around with someone's health if they know playing the player will cause severe long-term injury. Babin wasn't sooooo good that the coaches needed to hide a severe injury from him to keep his 2.5 sacks and 10 tackles per game in tact.

Babin is as useful now as he was when he was perfectly healthy. So we're not "losing anything" if he's out for the rest of the season. I'm all about hanging the blame on the coaches or management for drafting the guy, but I think this accusation is a little overkill.