Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Umm..no
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Any of you gonna admit to owing DW4 an apology?
- Thread starter Mangler
- Start date
Umm..no
Lets see him complete a full season 1st.
Should we praise Ricky for getting Watson and condemn him for failing to protect him?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Or praise him for getting Watson after his multiple f*ck ups at trying to fill the position, including having to dump a 2nd round pick to omit one mistake from the roster.
Rick got a lot of years of employment and millions of dollars of compensation when he should've been let go with the previous staff. He's owed nothing, especially a apology.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Maybe we should apologize to Charlie Casserley too since he drafted Andre Johnson and forget everything else too.
So you're admitting that these guys took a beating and acknowledging that they took a beating because of a poor Oline. You are making my point for me by saying that. I've told you this entire time that Watson having a really bad Oline also increases his chances to get injured. Why is that? Because you usually end up taking way more hits. Not really rocket science to acknowledge that.
Amen
banned1976
sleeper mode
I think Watson faked the injury because he doesn't like Bill O'Brien's offense.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Yeah, we've somehow entered a place where no matter what is written or presented, mathematical probability doesn't even exist, and we all want Watson to turn into a train wreck. :wadepalm:
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Hell, Tom Savage might as well sue the pants off of Smith for the assaults he took from that Oline last season.
Hell, Tom Savage might as well sue the pants off of Smith for the assaults he took from that Oline last season.
What happened to Savage last yr was criminal.
Especially putting him back in the game while still suffering from concussion symptoms.
BTW, How many QB's did the Texans go thru last yr? Uncle Rico and TB probably contribute that to luck as well.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I think this is the reason the Texans moved up to #12 spot. They knew the Cards were looking for a QB and with Trubisky and Mahomes off the board, and only Watson left of the top 3, they couldn't take the chance of the Cards taking him. My questions are, why did the Browns (who were QB needy) pass on all of the top 3 QB's and, how did Rick know the Browns weren't going to take Watson for themselves and then called them to make the trade? Would be interesting to know how that all went down.
Mangler
Toro de España
Well, It was probably all a part of the Osweiler trade. They took the trash out for us and traded 1sts under whatever conditions. I personally don’t care to know why or how, as the important part/thing already happened.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Well that's easy to answer... They are the Cleveland Browns. They only draft/sign bust QBs.
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Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Poor Tommy Savage .. couldn't find anyone to protect him on his 15 second slow motion drops .. if the would have only given him one more second .. he could have been a star!
I think the Brownies nailed it at QB this year. I'm working in the Cleveland area and loved their draft this year.
edromeo
Rookie
I am sure some people believed and were deceived by the 'reports' of Watson's lack of arm strength.
But, even when the 49 mph myth was disproven as factually inaccurate some people still chose to believe it.
I know I personally posted and debunked that weak arm myth.
edromeo
Rookie
15 games Vince Young: 51.5 comp % --2199 yds--12 TDs--13 INTs--67 Passer Rating--QBR 60 -- 552 rush 7 TDs
7 games--De. Watson: 61.8 comp % --1699 yds--19 TDs-- 8 INTs--103 Passer Rating--QBR 82 -- 269 rush 2 TDs
edromeo
Rookie
15 games Vince Young: 51.5 comp % --2199 yds--12 TDs--13 INTs--67 Passer Rating--QBR 60 -- 552 rush 7 TDs
7 games--De. Watson: 61.8 comp % --1699 yds--19 TDs-- 8 INTs--103 Passer Rating--QBR 82 -- 269 rush 2 TDs
edromeo
Rookie
It depends on how you define skillset. If you mean it in a very generic and general sense then sure...they both are dual threat QBs.
But if you are specific then....Griffin played in a pure air-raid (extreme) spread vs Watson played in more of a pro-style spread w/ NFL passing concepts.
Griffin is a straight line speed runner vs Watson has much better runner instincts and wiggle
Griffin struggled with pocket presence vs Watson is known for his pocket poise
Watson was a well known for his leadership and coming up big in big games.
Griffin was hurt while scrambling but was crippled due to moronic coaching decision to continue to play him knowing his knee was hurt which led to his knee being shredded.
Huh? Its the NFL. Almost EVERYONE gets injured. Being warry about a QB because they might get injured is an exercise is pointless guess work. Some QBs get hurt some don't. Lets not pretend its something that can be predicted based on style of play.
Some "running" QBs get injured some don't....some "pocket" QBs get injured some don't.
Who would have thought that this thread would turn into this.....?
edromeo
Rookie
Didn't Savage also get hurt behind the OL? Is Savages injury his fault due to his style of play? So why are you/other knocking Watson for the risk of injury due to an OL that YOU admit is poor? scratching my head
Savage helped injure himself. He's so slow he couldn't avoid a hit from a turtle.
I wanted Savage to play last yr because it was obvious the Texans OL was going to suck and I wanted Savage to take the beating.
BTW, you know what Watson and RGIII have in common?
Both blew out one knee in college and blew out their other knee as rookies in the NFL. We know how things turned out for RGIII and I hope Watson doesn't suffer the same fate. They are basically running the same NFL offense.
I'm also worried that they didn't do enough to fix the OL (A bunch of backups and, yes I think they will be better. Lower 1/3 better) and hope Watson doesn't get hurt again. Without draft picks the OL couldn't really be fixed. If Watson can stay healthy next yr then the 2019 draft looks at 1st glance to be rich at the OT position.
edromeo
Rookie
Griffin problems after his recovery weren't due to his knee injury though...immaturity (reportedly a jerk), poor organizational structure, fued with coaches (Mike Shanahan), change in coaches, being given up on by the new regime....Watson would have to become a different person to follow the same path as Griffin.
How is worrying about Watson getting hurt behind a piss poor line knocking Watson?
I don't recall any out right against him last year.. many thought he should wait a year before starting in order to improve the OL ald let him get some learning in. He proved to be a much quicker study though. Shame he got injured and strange that it was without a massive breakdown of the OL
delete
not fair
I hope you're not referring to me, I want Watson to succeed because it's much more fun to go out to NRG with Watson behind center. He's done much better than I thought he would. (I thought he would be a top 15 QB.)
With that said, The injury concerns are valid, particularly with the OL he played behind last yr and will play behind this year.
DeshaunTexan
Noob
I won a huge bet that night he played 'Bama. Knew he was special. Cannot believe we had the chance to draft him - as I thought the worthless Browns would definitely take him. But no... they choose the wrong fate and did something that will forever change the NFL landscape, theirs, and ours.
I was all-in on him when he was at Clemson. Never dreamt he would be in Houston. Knew he was a winner bc of the amount of games I watched of his on Saturdays. I can honest to God say I can't remember being more sold on a college QB. He just has 'it' and I know that is cliché but I never thought "this guy has the biggest arm ever" or anything like that, but he just seemed like Michael Jordan in cleats (before his college coach made the comment). Should have been the #1 overall pick.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Some people tends to turn a blind eye on things like that. I remember having some heated debates about starting him on day one, that bull about that velocity crap some nerd came up with and the point about moving up to get him ( some thought the cost was too much). But hey it's still a wait and see. Especially with his early injury history.
Texansballer74
The Marine
He was a dynamic player in college and in his first 6 starts in the NFL. I was hooked after his rookie year but I never said or thought, man he's Jordan in cleats. That too far of a reach. Lol
Texas Jake
Rookie
The debate over starting him day one wasn't necessarily a knock against Watson. I was one of those who wanted him to sit for at least part of the season and learn. It wasn't because I didn't think he was capable. I am just not a big fan of starting any rookie QB. Part of it is I have seen plenty of rookie QB's with talent destroyed by being thrown into bad situations before they were ready. I also grew up watching NFL football when it was rare for a head coach to start a rookie at QB. I was excited when we drafted Watson and the more I found out about him, the more excited I was. What he did on the field was amazing. He was much, much more competent on the field than I expected. Anyone who says they expected him to be as good as he was his rookie year I don't think really appreciates what he accomplished. The kind of greatness he displayed in those handful of games was unprecedented.
Did I want Watson to sit? Yes. But it wasn't a knock on Watson and I feel no need to apologize. I was in his corner from the start; I just believed another path was better for his development. As a rule, I still don't like starting rookies at QB, but DW is an exception to the rule.
There were others here who wanted him to sit because the line was suspect, I don't think they owe him an apology, either.
There were a few who doubted his arm and his accuracy or saw him as a "run first" type QB. I don't remember who they were.
I think the whole attitude that anyone who had questions about Watson or wanted him to sit owes him an apology is absurd. No matter how good a player is in college, they are still an unknown commodity when they enter the NFL. It doesn't matter whether their name is Watson, Montana, Manning, or Brady, they still have/had to prove it on an NFL field in NFL games.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Jake I can agree and appreciate all of this you wrote. I really don't expect anyone to truly apologize for their predictions. We've all got our share of those wrong and right. Like you said, every player coming from the collegiate level is a unknown commodity. I have followed this game for a long time as well, and I've seen day one starting QB's who has excelled and I have seen quite of few that didn't. Personally I was going off my gut feelings.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Agree. Great post.
Also a reason not to start him immediately and gradually work him in:
O’Brein - since when has he shown in any way being able to develop a QB?
And - he was on the hot seat. We knew it was either him or Rick Smith and Smith had the inside track.
Why give him the keys to your FIRST ROUND QB DRAFT PICK SINCE DAVID FREAKING CARR when he was out the door? Especially when the o-line was in shambles! And you know that guy is going to go all out like Shanahan and pull an RG3 type of start to save his job.
No thank you. There were plenty of sound arguments not to start him. It wasn’t a knock against Watson, more against this organization to protect such a valuable player and not ruin him. Been there done that got that medal with Carr.
I do think Watson can be something special. I am surprised that he and OB can have a special relationship and wreak havoc on the offensive side of the field. (More Watson than OB).
The guy just has to be on the field to prove it. And right now Watson needs to prove he can be on the field to prove it.
great post.
end thread
LoL
and to be clear, I had absolutely no issue with the plan to sit Watson to let him learn/get used to NFL speed. I, too, am old enough to remember that used to be S.O.P. in the NFL.
edromeo
Rookie
The concept of this thread made sense. A chance for people to celebrate their QB and say what narratives they heard/believed that turned out to be false and led them to have a false opinion on Watson. Except for 76Texan who is refreshingly honest about lol, still not wanting to draft Watson.
But apparently, all post draft debate and vitriol over Watson was just imagined. And the only objection to Watson was because people wanted him to sit behind Savage.....but imho wanting Watson to sit behind Savage is still evidence of a flaw in the assessment of the QBs.
But apparently, all post draft debate and vitriol over Watson was just imagined. And the only objection to Watson was because people wanted him to sit behind Savage.....but imho wanting Watson to sit behind Savage is still evidence of a flaw in the assessment of the QBs.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Could you imagine how nice this situation would've been had the Texans just parked Osweiler's ass in the QB3 spot, then cut him this year while keeping that RD2 pick in this past draft.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Can you give us examples of this hard lined debate and vitriol that was being thrown around here?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Admitting being wrong is the worst possible thing in the world right now with the climate in this country. Better to go down in a blaze of hypocrisy and innuendo then to simply say .. "I was wrong"
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Why the hell should someone apologize for something when they did nothing wrong? Just because you say so? Just because in your eyes they were wrong? Just because it makes you feel better? Just because someone hurt your feelings with a disagreement that you took as a debate with vitriol?
Name names. Who are you wanting an apology from? Tell us why them specifically. Tell us what they said and why they are wrong.
Cmon we are waiting. And that goes for any of you wanting an apology.
Damnit people. We are discussing sports that has a lot opinions and variables in it. If y’all are keeping tabs on every little thing we say and how it makes you feel and letting us know when we owe you an apology - we might as well have a conversation with our wives.
Grow a pair the next time you think someone owes you an apology and man up. This is the internet. A sports message board.
The difference between RGIII and DW4 is that the HC didn't throw DW4 back out on the field with an obviously busted wheel like Shannahan did with RGIII. That was criminal negligence by Shannahan.
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