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Another Carr Thread - Let's make it the last until the Season starts.
CajunTexan
Waterboy
swtbound07 said:
I am sure Ryan is playing golf with your other favorite options, Tony and Dave.
07...do you realize how you are discrediting your view (to me at least, can't speak for the entire board) the deeper you go on with this????
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
CajunTexan said:
Feel free to ask anybody who's been around this board awhile what they think about my views. You might not agree with me, but I doubt you'll find a person here who doesn't respect my consistency, and my ability to back up my positions and my ability to admit when I was wrong. I believe Dave Ragone is a St. Louis Ram, FWIW
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
chuckm said:
I'll be here Chuck...and I hope everyone who has been negatively beating my rep will comeback and give me some positive if Im proven correct.
chuckm said:
Voting No Carr, should be just like no Victor Riley, no Todd Wade, no Gary Walker, or no Marcus Coleman....
was it okay for those people to be on this message board when those guys were on the team.
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
swtbound07 said:
I think I heard John Kerry say something of the same thing when they asked him about the War on Terror before the 2004 elections...
I am the polar opposite of Mr. SWTBound, and he knows it. We have swapped interesting posts time and time again with no result. I will defend David Carr until I am the last man standing. I saw the talent in him before and I won't let Dum Capers mishaps or any schmuck discredit his abilities.
Hopefully this is the very last Carr thread until we can start talking about gameday performance, 2006. I expect at least a dozen more before preseason, though.
SWTBound, you are a good debate partner. But we just can't seem to agree on anything! Shucks!
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansLucky13 said:I think I heard John Kerry say something of the same thing when they asked him about the War on Terror before the 2004 elections...
I am the polar opposite of Mr. SWTBound, and he knows it. We have swapped interesting posts time and time again with no result. I will defend David Carr until I am the last man standing. I saw the talent in him before and I won't let Dum Capers mishaps or any schmuck discredit his abilities.
Hopefully this is the very last Carr thread until we can start talking about gameday performance, 2006. I expect at least a dozen more before preseason, though.
SWTBound, you are a good debate partner. But we just can't seem to agree on anything! Shucks!
Likewise...you keep it civil and refrain from the "your not a true fan" drivel that gets spouted on here. And just for the record, Im not the one that starts all these David Carr threads...I just potstir and contribute
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
swtbound07 said:
You know i'm up for a good 'ol potstirrin' any day of the week! Makes for good conversation... at least when we aren't in the same room, hehe.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansLucky13 said:You know i'm up for a good 'ol potstirrin' any day of the week! Makes for good conversation... at least when we aren't in the same room, hehe.
Yeah, I would hate to see you carried out on a stretcher
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
RTP2110 said:
David Carr needs three things to succeed as the Texans Quarterback:
1. An offensive line that only gives up 30 sacks this season.
2. A good psychiatrist to help him get his head together.
3. Fans that will give him a chance past the second quarter of the first game of the season.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Koolaid Time said:
You seriously just blamed the FANS??????? Donovan Mcnabb was booed from the DRAFT...they didn't even give him a snap in Philly, and he turned out just fine....we are 5 years deep into the Carr experiment and suddenly its our fault for not fully supporting him?? Ridiculous.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
An interesting side note...my opinion carries exactly 1.96% of the weight of this poll...i feel powerfull!
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
swtbound07 said:Yeah, I would hate to see you carried out on a stretcher
Hehe... dream on, pal.
swtbound07 said:
I know that makes you feel special. All 98.04% of us are happy to accommodate you!
Carr is roxor and you know it. Stop being silly!
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansLucky13 said:Hehe... dream on, pal.
I know that makes you feel special. All 98.04% of us are happy to accommodate you!
Carr is roxor and you know it. Stop being silly!
I dont even know what that means sir....but if it means good QB then your wrong.
TexansLucky13
53d Signal Batt
swtbound07 said:
See folks? I try!
David rox your sox, twice!
swtbound07 said:
Donovan also never had a single 1000 yard reciever, till he got T.O.
His Offensive line is porous, if he wasn't athletic, he'd have been sacked at least 60 times a season.
And his team has only once(that I can remember) had a running back with over 1000 rushing yards..... (I could be way off on that one, but I never claimed to have a decent memory)....
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
thunderkyss said:
If all these things are true, and he had a bad line and no weapons....and no rb, then how come he can put up stats like THIS in his first full year as a starter (2000)
Att Comp pct. yds td int
569 330 58 3365 21 13
Looks pretty good from where Im sitting....I don't know how the eagles did in 2000, but i know they finished 11-5 and won their division in 2001 when mcnabb was a 3rd year player with almost identical stats......so apparently it CAN be done! A QB can be successfull in bad circumstances...how very puzzling.
swtbound07 said:
Now you see......... it all depends on what successfull means.... a lot of people in this MB will be happy with a SuperBowl winning Trent Dilfer kind of QB. a bus driver.
Now, I know we can win a SuperBowl like that..... and at this point, I doubt we'll see much more from David than that.
Personally, I'd like to see a field general, a leader, a guy who is in charge of the Offense, when they are on the field. Aikman....... Brady........ Peyton.....
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
thunderkyss said:
All i want to see is W's in the W column and nothing in the L column. I'd love for us to have a franchise leading quarterback that can lead this team to victory..but I'll take a pittsburgh type team with a nasty defense and a solid running game to get me to the top as well...and I think we are more likely to see the latter than the former
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
thunderkyss said:
Hey, remember Trent Dilfer needed Tony Banks to make it to the Super Bowl...
Aikman, Brady and P. Manning are very rare... for each of them there are 5 Elvis Grbac's....
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
You know i'm just a homer, but this is how I see it. Everyone supports Carr and wants to see him win because thats what we want our team to do, so these Carr posts are just for our anticipation for the upcoming season.
All we can fault Carr with is being dumb. Really he's an idiot. What quarterback would go on year after year with all those sacks and not fear a career ending injury or paralysis? Dwight Freeney every year. Twice.The guy is supposed to be small at that position too. And then he signs a contract extension to get sacked even more. Example: Noone let Carr know that its your facial hair that real men grow out. Noone likes tree-hugging hippies.
Then theres the Dom effect. It was a no-win situation. The guy was a head coach at some other team, I think it was an expansion, and went with old players, and they all retired on him so he got canned. Then, as brilliant as he is, goes all young, and year after year gets rid of all the veteran leadership. I guess the third time around he think of mixing it up. But, I'm not going to mention the play calling.
Also in his fear of getting sacked, he does stupid things. Hopfully with Kubiak, he'll get out of that. I'm not good with stats, but what the average sack for a quarterback? Lets see Carr in that kinda system before we run him out of town.
Lets all just calm down and hope Carr pulls a Brett Farve. I am not saying he is going to be like Farve. I am saying that Farve got traded and won a Superbowl when given a good chance. Almost similar situiation with Aikman. He got a line, a great coach(who I was hoping would come here) and won a couple rings. Maybe Carr can do the same with Kubiaks system. We all agree, who are not in a Reggie Bush or Vince Young hangover, that Kubiak is getting a good system in place.
Man-love him or hate him, lets all thank Carr for not being like Payton who get sacked more than twice is calling out his teammates. He has handled his unique situation well. Lets just see him through his extension and see if he can be the real deal.
The worst case scenario is Bush and Young are winning superbowls while david and mario are released to other teams to win superbowls.. and we stay loosing. Atleast we would have the first draft pick.Knock on wood and God forbid that to happen.
The real question is, how many quarterbacks would have succeeded in the past system. I think Carr would has done as good as most given the situiation. What would have Harrington done in our system? OR Brees, or anyone else? Really, put any quarterback, past or present and what would they have done? Not much. All great and average qbs had a good system and team to help them win the big one.
But anyways this is too long. Heres the another question. Would you take Carr now, hoping he will start clicking, or take Warren Moon hoping he can win the big one after his meltdowns in the the playoffs? Someone should start a post on that.
All we can fault Carr with is being dumb. Really he's an idiot. What quarterback would go on year after year with all those sacks and not fear a career ending injury or paralysis? Dwight Freeney every year. Twice.The guy is supposed to be small at that position too. And then he signs a contract extension to get sacked even more. Example: Noone let Carr know that its your facial hair that real men grow out. Noone likes tree-hugging hippies.
Then theres the Dom effect. It was a no-win situation. The guy was a head coach at some other team, I think it was an expansion, and went with old players, and they all retired on him so he got canned. Then, as brilliant as he is, goes all young, and year after year gets rid of all the veteran leadership. I guess the third time around he think of mixing it up. But, I'm not going to mention the play calling.
Also in his fear of getting sacked, he does stupid things. Hopfully with Kubiak, he'll get out of that. I'm not good with stats, but what the average sack for a quarterback? Lets see Carr in that kinda system before we run him out of town.
Lets all just calm down and hope Carr pulls a Brett Farve. I am not saying he is going to be like Farve. I am saying that Farve got traded and won a Superbowl when given a good chance. Almost similar situiation with Aikman. He got a line, a great coach(who I was hoping would come here) and won a couple rings. Maybe Carr can do the same with Kubiaks system. We all agree, who are not in a Reggie Bush or Vince Young hangover, that Kubiak is getting a good system in place.
Man-love him or hate him, lets all thank Carr for not being like Payton who get sacked more than twice is calling out his teammates. He has handled his unique situation well. Lets just see him through his extension and see if he can be the real deal.
The worst case scenario is Bush and Young are winning superbowls while david and mario are released to other teams to win superbowls.. and we stay loosing. Atleast we would have the first draft pick.Knock on wood and God forbid that to happen.
The real question is, how many quarterbacks would have succeeded in the past system. I think Carr would has done as good as most given the situiation. What would have Harrington done in our system? OR Brees, or anyone else? Really, put any quarterback, past or present and what would they have done? Not much. All great and average qbs had a good system and team to help them win the big one.
But anyways this is too long. Heres the another question. Would you take Carr now, hoping he will start clicking, or take Warren Moon hoping he can win the big one after his meltdowns in the the playoffs? Someone should start a post on that.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
TexansBull said:
Carr, at this point in his career, or Moon at his best? Moon. That man could flat out play. He threw such a beautiful spiral. I hope Carr surpasses Moon one day but he's not there, yet. Not even in the neighborhood.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TexansBull said:
I'd prefer not if its all the same to you. I don't care who hypothetically wouldnt have suceeded in Carr's shoes..the point is that HE didn't, and needs to be held accountable for that. I think other qb's in fact COULD have done well. Donovan didn't have a lot in philidelphia, and he made probowls and superbowls.
Koolaid Time
Drink Up!
The Pencil Neck said:
Carr cannot be compaired to Warren Moon.....
Carr doesn't beat his wife and sexually harrass Minnesota Vikings cheerleaders.....
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Koolaid Time said:Carr cannot be compaired to Warren Moon.....
Carr doesn't beat his wife and sexually harrass Minnesota Vikings cheerleaders.....
Why would Carr beat Warren Moon's wife and harass Vikings cheerleaders?
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Texans86 said:
Ding ding ding! that td/int rate is where he shines....and it goes to +13 next year, where he is also 11-5 as a starter....THATS what impresses me
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
I've dropped down to 1.72 percent of the poll! my power is waning!
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
danklover said:
welcome to the board...interesting first post. Succinct, yet nicely conveys the point. i like it!
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/search.php?searchid=179823
Because we needed another one.
ps. go david.
Because we needed another one.
ps. go david.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Will everybody please stop comparing Carr to anyone else. We only need to compare Carr to himself. All of you pro Carr folks need to set expectations properly and that begins with looking at Carr's first four years when he had time to throw and what he did positively when other's missed their assignments. He is not Elway, Favre or Plummer. He is David Carr, whatever that is supposed to yield.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Kaiser Toro said:
I voted No Carr. And no he shouldn't be stopped from being compared to Favre, Plummer, Elway, etc.
I want a winner in the pocket, not a loser.
I show you what a winner looks like:
"A guy broke through the line, hit him, pushed his head in the ground. He called the same play, let the guy come through and broke his nose with the football. I said, "That's my hero,' " says Bubba Smith about Johnny Unitas on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.
Notre Dame thought Johnny Unitas was too small. The Pittsburgh Steelers thought he wasn't intelligent enough.
The Baltimore Colts got it right. Unitas, 6 feet and a mere 145 pounds in high school, became a nowhere-to-somewhere story, a backup who kept getting opportunities to succeed at every level. Give me a chance, the crew-cut quarterback would say, and I'll show you. He went from semi-pro dirt fields to stardom in the NFL.
And he did it quickly.
"The most important thing of all about Unitas," said Weeb Ewbank, his Colts coach, "is that he had a real hunger. This was a kid who wanted success and didn't have it so long that he wasn't about to waste it when it came."
http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Unitas_Johnny.html
A loser says, "there is nothing you can do about it."
0-208 ( not counting running out bounds )
This guy has had 60 ( 59 ) games to show the world what he is made of.
Peyton Manning and Brett Favre almost have more wins in one season then he had in four seasons. Both can match any performance of Carr's in ONE losing season that he could in 4 all together.
Favre managed to throw for 4 300+ yard games in a 4-12 year.
Kerry Collins? 4-12 Raiders a hurt Moss and throws down 3 300+ yard games.
Carr has thrown for 3 300+ yard games in his whole entire career.
One can say stats schmats... what does that mean? Nothing.
Well you better have some stats if you are not winning. You need to have one or the other and there happens to be none. You expect to see lower passing stats for teams that are winning and higher ones for those that are losing. But I don't see what I expected. I haven't seen what I expected.
It's dissappointing.
No.
A dissappointment first overall and then dissappointing for the dissappointment squared.
That earns a vote of no-confidence from my hand everytime.
Heroes that I can admire, not losers. Heroes that can earn their spot on the roster, not have it given to them because they can sell pink jerseys to bunch a little girls.
---
that said though.. when it's game time, I ride with the team. That's just a basic football principle. Go Sage! I hope you get your shot and prove all these detractors wrong. However if that cap hoggin backup ever does something to be worthy of your spot... well then GREAT! It would be nice to not have to log pages like the following in my personal diary:
July 22nd, In the Year of our Lord 2006
Dear Diary,
It was hot today. I had to drink a lot of water to stay upright. While at the cooler I ran into Bob and my favourite girl Jennifer. I sure like her. Bob I do not. Bob started idle converstion about weather. I said it was hot. He agreed. Bob asked me if I liked football. I said I did. Bob asked me who my team was. I said the Houston Texans. Bob said O you suffering bastard. Jennifer laughed and said the Texans are losers. I wanted to cry. Jennifer said she liked Brady. Bob said me too. I said thanks from the heart of my bottom. They left together. I did cry. Alone. I didn't have any tears yet though, because I didn't have any water reserves build up yet. It was a silent scream of a cry, like a poor lamb abandonded to the wolves by his guardian shepherd on a cold winter night. Damn you David Carr. Not only are you a loser, you made me a loser. You made the Texans losers. I tried to cry myself to sleep, but it was so *(&%(@#*^) hot I couldn't sleep. I guess I will read about how great Peyton Manning is until I pass out again. Not sure which book I will read though. He has like 50 of em. Still cannot sleep. Will attempt to use trusty time honoured method of counting excuses of why David Carr is not great to fall asleep.
July 23rd, In the Year of Our Lord 2006
Dear Diary,
It was hot today. I met Bob and Jennifer at the cooler again. Bob asked if I thought it was going to rain. I said no. Bob reminded me that the Texans suck and lose to the Colts every year. Jennifer said that doesn't happen to Brady. Bob agreed. I said now hold on a minute and whipped out my laptop, wall projector, laser pointer, fired up the blackberry and put on a presentation about all of the excuses David Carr couldn't beat Peyton Manning complete with power point slides, spreadsheets, and animations of a balls hitting the backs of the WR's heads. I had so much WIFI going that I microwaved Bob's coffee. He said thanks. I said no problem. I am not too sure how the presentation went over, but I am sure it had some potential. I guess I shall see tomorrow... yes tomorrow. Always tomorrow...
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
TwinSisters said:
One of the things that you seem to be totally incapable of understanding is that it doesn't matter if your QB is a gawd or not, without a good team, you don't win. Period.
I don't care how good Johnny U was (and I saw him at the end of his career when he wasn't so hot) without guys to block for him and guys to catch his passes and guys to run the football for him and a defense to stop the other team's offense, he doesn't win. How many great players were on those great old Colt teams? Quite a few: Lenny Moore, Mike Curtis, Raymond Berry, Alan Ameche, Art Donovan, Jim Parker, etc. How many seasons did they miss the playoffs? Quite a few. Do you mean that even the great Johnny U didn't win the championship every year he played? And wasn't he the first NFL QB to lose a Superbowl to the AFL? How many Hall of Famers does Carr have on his team? Hmmm... mebbe not so much.
The thing about Peyton and Favre is that those guys were on teams and in systems where the co-ordinators tried to take advantage of their strengths and designed offenses around them. And on top of that, they had great TEAMS.
His first year, Peyton threw the ball 575 times. Carr only threw the ball 444 times his first year. Over their first 4 years in the league, Manning averaged 556 attempts per year and Carr averaged 407 attempts. And you know over those 4 years Carr was down a lot more than Manning was and should have thrown the ball a whole lot more.
The problem is that while Manning was in an offense that focused on his ability to throw the ball and concentrated on scoring points, Carr was in a system where the whole focus was to not get too far behind. Run, run, try to throw just far enough to get a first down. Carr doesn't have any control over that.
The same thing is true of Favre. Looking at his 2nd through 6th years in the league, he averaged 536 attempts per year. The GB gameplan was to throw the football.
No one can say what Carr would have done in a similar situation but I think it's a mistake to blame Carr for his coaching staff's mentality and philosophy. He had no control over that. What we don't really know is if (or how much) he's been damaged by the system he's been forced to run these past few years and by the number of hits he's taken. And we don't know if Kubiak & Co. can repair that damage. Obviously, Kubiak thinks he can fix it. We'll have to wait for the season to start to know for sure.
MorKnolle
All Pro
For comparison's sake:
1st season......GP..GS...Att...Comp...%..........Yds...TD..INT....Record
David Carr.......16..16...444....233..52.5%......2592...9...15.......4-12
Steve McNair....4...2.....80.....41...51.3%.......569....3....1........2-0
2nd Season
DC.................12..11...295...167...56.6%.....2013...9..13.........3-8
SM..................9...4....143....88....61.5%....1197...6...4..........2-2
3rd Season
DC.................16...16..466....285..61.2%.....3531..16..14........7-9
SM.................16...16..415...216...52.0%.....2665..14..13........8-8
4th Season
DC.................16...16...423...256...60.5%....2488...14..11......2-14
SM.................16...16...492...289..58.7%.....3228..15..10.......8-8
5th Season
DC.................???
SM.................11...11...331...187...56.5%....2179..12...8........9-2
6th Season
DC.................???
SM.................16...15...396...248...62.6%....2847..15..13.......12-3
7th Season
DC.................???
SM.................15...15....431...264...61.3%...3350..21..12.......7-8
It took Steve McNair until his 7th season (5th full season of starting) to match David Carr's 3rd season statistics (still didn't match passing yards, but finally surpassed Carr's QB rating). For that matter, Steve McNair has never had 3500 passing yards in a single season, which Carr accomplished in his 3rd year. Obviously Carr has not had the win-loss success that McNair enjoyed early on, but McNair also didn't start with an expansion team and I'm pretty sure everyone would say Fisher is a better coach than Capers, plus McNair has had 31 Pro Bowl teammates in his 11 seasons while Carr has had a total of 3 in 4 seasons, so it's quite safe to say McNair had a better team around him too.
1st season......GP..GS...Att...Comp...%..........Yds...TD..INT....Record
David Carr.......16..16...444....233..52.5%......2592...9...15.......4-12
Steve McNair....4...2.....80.....41...51.3%.......569....3....1........2-0
2nd Season
DC.................12..11...295...167...56.6%.....2013...9..13.........3-8
SM..................9...4....143....88....61.5%....1197...6...4..........2-2
3rd Season
DC.................16...16..466....285..61.2%.....3531..16..14........7-9
SM.................16...16..415...216...52.0%.....2665..14..13........8-8
4th Season
DC.................16...16...423...256...60.5%....2488...14..11......2-14
SM.................16...16...492...289..58.7%.....3228..15..10.......8-8
5th Season
DC.................???
SM.................11...11...331...187...56.5%....2179..12...8........9-2
6th Season
DC.................???
SM.................16...15...396...248...62.6%....2847..15..13.......12-3
7th Season
DC.................???
SM.................15...15....431...264...61.3%...3350..21..12.......7-8
It took Steve McNair until his 7th season (5th full season of starting) to match David Carr's 3rd season statistics (still didn't match passing yards, but finally surpassed Carr's QB rating). For that matter, Steve McNair has never had 3500 passing yards in a single season, which Carr accomplished in his 3rd year. Obviously Carr has not had the win-loss success that McNair enjoyed early on, but McNair also didn't start with an expansion team and I'm pretty sure everyone would say Fisher is a better coach than Capers, plus McNair has had 31 Pro Bowl teammates in his 11 seasons while Carr has had a total of 3 in 4 seasons, so it's quite safe to say McNair had a better team around him too.
TwinSisters
Veteran
The Pencil Neck said:
That would be correct. I don't comprehend how anyone could be satisified with a QB that hasn't done a whole lot to win in the first place.
Not only is Carr not Unitas. He is not Montana. He is not Bradshaw ( insert long list of NFL QBs worth a damn and sprinkle it with Jaworski's and other guys that even I have a hard time knowing who they are or can even picture their image...like Bill Kenney. Totally blank right now )
So he is not like all of these NFL QBs and more importantly he is not like them in that they have all accomplished something to warrant being a starting franchise QB. Not very impressive, along with me 'seeing' him bumble around. Never mind the stats.
So he is not better then Manning, not better then Brady, not better then Favre, ( insert about 10 more current NFL QBs ) ...and to top it all off Peyton's little BROTHER has accomplished more then him in almost everyway.
Yet Carr is going to start for the 5th year.
The thing you don't understand is how bad Carr really has been. I don't care what the excuses are... the results are the worst. Now I imagine I will have to adress this again in the other thread, so I will stop right here and come back if it looks like I didn't.
-----
The thing about Peyton and Favre is that those guys were on teams and in systems where the co-ordinators tried to take advantage of their strengths and designed offenses around them. And on top of that, they had great TEAMS.
--
The lame duck great team theory or the expansion team theory are both flawed or not applicable. It's not like Carr has to conqueror the world by himself, but when you put him into comparative analysis with other QBs... he cannot compare to any of them. The ones who had similiar mediocre stats, were winning games. The ones who were not winning games, had at least SOMETHING that was in the top ten in the league. IE look at Favre from last year 4-12.
I did find some flaws with my analysis earlier today, but the end story I imagine is still going to be pretty close to what I initially found. I am going to clean that bad boy up sometime this week so it is easier to understand. I was just typing on the fly as I was crunching the columns, so it got a little sloppy in presentation.
BUT first the expansion team excuse:
I do not accept it on the basis of; what is different between a team that goes 1-15 and ones that go 2-14 or 7-9 etc? The expansion team excuse is an excuse. There is not a difference to warrant 4 years of nothing.
The great team excuse:
So the Texans are the only franchise in history with bad players and bad coaches 4 years running? Maybe there are not a lot of them, but then of them you would expect at least one other franchise to keep a QB that is both losing and not making any individual accomplishments? There are none in 45 years of NFL play.
---
....years and by the number of hits he's taken. And we don't know if Kubiak & Co. can repair that damage. Obviously, Kubiak thinks he can fix it. We'll have to wait for the season to start to know for sure.
----
I will make a very important distinction here for myself ( not talking for everybody and obviously not expecting everyone to adhere to my own style )
What I am looking at is what he has done. NOT what he is going to do. I was spurred into looking at it because Montana has said he has done nothing ( and also the need for a new Carr thread ). I looked to see if Joe was right... and I doubt even Joe knows how right he was.
To address some the points made in the block above... That's more of the reason to bring up Unitas. Favre and Unitas have an attitude to take charge if or when what the coach is doing is not winning the game. Carr lacks this ingredient. I personally don't like it and I think it is a characteristic of a loser. I don't like chumps leading my team. That's my VOTE. No to chumps and pansies that say there is nothing that I can do about it and YES to champs that say give me a chance and I will show you the way to do it.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
TwinSisters said:
Its a strange feeling to have someone else on my side in this debate.
TwinSisters
Veteran
MorKnolle said:
When you do comparative analysis one of the things that you are most interested in is how the player did in the season against the players that also played in the same season. That is why you look at the rankings of the individuals
McNair ranked 9th in rushing TDs in his first season as a full-time starter.
It's not about placing in the rushing TD stat itself. It's just that he DID something in a major category that was better then everyone else or was in the top 10 of the NFL.
In his second season as a full-time starter he ranked in yards, attempts, completions, etc and a bunch of other stuff.
The point being is that Carr cannot say this. He is always mediocre. McNair can say he did something to deserve starting the third season and the fourth season and so forth up to getting in a Pro-Bowl and co-MvP and all the other stuff.
TwinSisters
Veteran
swtbound07 said:
O yes we are... in the winning department also. I mean there are some little details that are different, but essentially the same.
You might be doing it just to piss people off, but I am not happy man. I am not happy. I AM NOT HAPPY.
I waited to vent until after the draft to avoid all the aggie traffic, but man the more I look at this team the more pissed off I get. NOT HAPPIER. I find more mistakes, not fewer, the deeper I go.
EDIT:
Let me add this. I was sold on and bought into the idea that we drafted a QB to be the face of our franchise. The embodiment of Houston football. A slinging killer. A winner. A champion. Not Mister decent season that falls around 15th in the NFL.
It's not that he has to be better then Manning, Favre, Brady, Etc insert 10 other QBs... it's that he just has be able to compete with them and HE CAN'T. He has not done it. He has squandered it.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
Originally Posted by TwinSisters
That would be correct. I don't comprehend how anyone could be satisified with a QB that hasn't done a whole lot to win in the first place.
Not only is Carr not Unitas. He is not Montana. He is not Bradshaw ( insert long list of NFL QBs worth a damn and sprinkle it with Jaworski's and other guys that even I have a hard time knowing who they are or can even picture their image...like Bill Kenney. Totally blank right now )
So he is not like all of these NFL QBs and more importantly he is not like them in that they have all accomplished something to warrant being a starting franchise QB. Not very impressive, along with me 'seeing' him bumble around. Never mind the stats.
So he is not better then Manning, not better then Brady, not better then Favre, ( insert about 10 more current NFL QBs ) ...and to top it all off Peyton's little BROTHER has accomplished more then him in almost everyway.
Yet Carr is going to start for the 5th year.
Carr is getting another chance because most of the football world, coaches(including Kubiak), sports writers, analysts, all see his potential and see the limiting factors that stifled his development. Kubiak sees it an probably staked his HC career on this belief. I tend to agree. but you must know more than all those other people.
That would be correct. I don't comprehend how anyone could be satisified with a QB that hasn't done a whole lot to win in the first place.
Not only is Carr not Unitas. He is not Montana. He is not Bradshaw ( insert long list of NFL QBs worth a damn and sprinkle it with Jaworski's and other guys that even I have a hard time knowing who they are or can even picture their image...like Bill Kenney. Totally blank right now )
So he is not like all of these NFL QBs and more importantly he is not like them in that they have all accomplished something to warrant being a starting franchise QB. Not very impressive, along with me 'seeing' him bumble around. Never mind the stats.
So he is not better then Manning, not better then Brady, not better then Favre, ( insert about 10 more current NFL QBs ) ...and to top it all off Peyton's little BROTHER has accomplished more then him in almost everyway.
Yet Carr is going to start for the 5th year.
Carr is getting another chance because most of the football world, coaches(including Kubiak), sports writers, analysts, all see his potential and see the limiting factors that stifled his development. Kubiak sees it an probably staked his HC career on this belief. I tend to agree. but you must know more than all those other people.
TwinSisters
Veteran
TK_Gamer said:
No they don't.
well let's see how much they know.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9232134
Ah about as much as a playmate bunny.
mancunian
Old Timer
swtbound07 said:
Isn't that how football is supposed to be played. I'm a run first kinda guy and yeah I know its a cliche but "Defence Wins Championships".
All Carr has to do is not make mistakes and not lose us games.
I'm a supporter but I'll only take so much. We've had the excuses its now time for DC to show what he can do. We have fixed the oline (I hope) and if he still cant cut it then I'll be the first to admit I got it wrong.
R
real
Guest
TK_Gamer said:
And since sport writers, analyst...and sally from up the street all think Carr has the goods....It must be true!!!!...Joy....
MorKnolle
All Pro
TwinSisters said:
Steve McNair had one significant stat that he was ranked in during his first 5 seasons as a starter, 10th in passing yards in his 2nd year (1998). I refuse to acknowledge passing attempts and even completions as significant stats because those are based much more on your style of offense than your personal abilities, especially passing attempts. Carr ranked 12th in passing yards in 2004, his 3rd season as a starter, and in doing so ourperformed Steve McNair's top-10 passing yard season in every respect (61.2% completions vs. 58.7%, 3531 yards vs. 3228 yards, 83.5 QB rating vs. 80.1). Carr being ranked 12th in the league in passing yards rather than 10th but outperforming McNair otherwise does not IMO show that Steve McNair is the superior QB in this case.