paycheck71
Hall of Fame
...
Sage Rosenfels @SageRosenfels18 · 21h 21 hours ago
The BEST wide receiver I ever played with.
Man, it's going to suck to see him in another uniform....
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Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans
- Thread starter TheMatrix31
- Start date
Man, it's going to suck to see him in another uniform....
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Yes. That would be ironic.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'll guess more like Boldin's 2 year $12 mil.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
People saying there are teams willing to pay out his contract. Interested to see what shakes out. Can imagine Irsay popping a draft pick in a moment of... weakness.
Hopefully Trent Richardson type of weakness...
Texian
Hall of Fame
I was all for Daniels and Manning playing out their contract and leave as FAs. However for other players like Kareem Jackson, Brooks Reed, Derek Newton it would make sense to try and resign them but like Glover Quin, Antonio Smith and a few others there is/was no salary cap space available to sign them.
IMO 2014 with a new coach, bad team, no QB and in a rebuilding year it made more sense to try and improve the 2015 and 2016 salary caps and increase draft picks than to try and made absolutely NO SENSE to juggle the 2014 cap in order to make a good run at 8-8. I also think it's a good idea to let Jonathan Joseph play out his contract.
BTW I think the Andre Johnson is strictly an attempt to find money in order to re-sign Kareem and/or Derek. I hope this helps with your obvious contradiction because as you can now see there is no obvious contradiction at all.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
if it was a year to late then obvs they didntdo the right thing heck it was 3 years to late when they gave him that extension money 4 years ago
RTP2110
All Pro
My memory is a bit hazy, but didn't a lot of folks see this contract issue coming years ago? I seem to remember Andre being significantly underpaid for a great majority of his early career. There were quite a few people on here noting that it would have to be made up to him, and that it would be tough when he's making big dollars at the later stages of his career. I read somewhere that Larry Fitzgerald has already banked $120M in his career while Andre has just cleared $90M. I know that "it's a business" and all that, but it still feels a little crummy if the team strung him out like that and then cut bait when it is time to make it right.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Andre made a lot of bad business decisions. That's not the Texans' fault. If he had played his cards a little bit differently here and there, he'd have made that money but he didn't.
This is just another example of the old saw about how you don't get paid what you're worth, you get paid what you negotiate. Andre never chose the right guys to negotiate for him.
If he leaves, I hope he goes somewhere and finds success but I hope we're more successful here than wherever he winds up.
PapaL
Loose Screw
That's understood.
Some people are saying this is just about the money. I understand reduced role means less money & it's not too hard for Aj to connect the dots.
I also don't believe Aj is deluded about his abilities. If reduced role meant the #2 option, not being on the field when there's only one receiver... I think he could bite his tongue & deal with it. But we'll never know.
They were cutting deep. 40 catches. That's saying, "Sometimes we'll have three WRs on the field & you won't be one of them."
That's different than saying, "We want you to take a pay cut."
I started the "How much is Andre worth to you?" thread a while back to get a general feel from the message board. When OB says "40 catches" that means Andre's value is next to nothing. He may have his reasons for that, but it isn't because Andre can't play.
We signed Reed to a deal with a higher cap number than Quin that year.
Hello fellow Texans.......... I love this state.... I got here as fast as I could 
(And classy Texan fans!..........)
I hope you are all having an excellent offseason. (I dont like the cold here in Dallas..... Al Gore?? where are you????)
This one surprises me. I didn't really expect that my Colts would have a chance to get AJ. I still wonder if this is a right move for the Colts at this point.
Lastly, I will add I think that there is probably a 75% chance that AJ is still with the Texans this coming year. He is under contract. If they cut him, they eat the 7.5mil........ (why not just keep him? - saving 2.5 mil isnt that big of a benefit) If the Colts or someone else trades for him...... what are the Texans looking for in return? 1st round pick..... no way.
I like AJ, but 10mil is alot, for this stage of his career, AND to have to give up picks........
What if we gave you Trent Richardson....
The Colts forum is awash with chatter about AJ.
I am not sure this is the way. I didnt really get a chance to watch him much this year. Has he lost a step? Are the Texans right in giving him a reduced role?
(And classy Texan fans!..........)
I hope you are all having an excellent offseason. (I dont like the cold here in Dallas..... Al Gore?? where are you????)
This one surprises me. I didn't really expect that my Colts would have a chance to get AJ. I still wonder if this is a right move for the Colts at this point.
Lastly, I will add I think that there is probably a 75% chance that AJ is still with the Texans this coming year. He is under contract. If they cut him, they eat the 7.5mil........ (why not just keep him? - saving 2.5 mil isnt that big of a benefit) If the Colts or someone else trades for him...... what are the Texans looking for in return? 1st round pick..... no way.
I like AJ, but 10mil is alot, for this stage of his career, AND to have to give up picks........
What if we gave you Trent Richardson....
The Colts forum is awash with chatter about AJ.
I am not sure this is the way. I didnt really get a chance to watch him much this year. Has he lost a step? Are the Texans right in giving him a reduced role?
There's a 0% chance Johnson remains a Texan, and the cap savings will be around $8.8 million. Otherwise, it would have made more sense just to keep AJ.
PapaL
Loose Screw
PapaL
Loose Screw
AJ - $88,934,470 Source
169 games
1012 catches
1273 targets
13,597 yards
13.4 average
77 Long
64 TDs
Fitz - $118,282,500 Source
170 games
909 catches
1304 targets
12,151 yards
13.4 avg
80 Long
89 TD
Yeah...bad business decisions is putting it lightly. That's what happens when you listen to Uncle Melton.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
"Report: 3 teams willing to pay Andre Johnson $10 million in 2015... And one of those teams, the Indianapolis Colts, has a real need for a downfield playmaker."
I love me some AJ, but having lost his top end speed which has impacted his separation ability, is he really considered a downfield playmaker at this point in his career? Even in 2013 when he had a monster year, he had a 12.9 YPC. I see a clutch volume receiver, better than a possession receiver but not a downfield threat anymore.
I love me some AJ, but having lost his top end speed which has impacted his separation ability, is he really considered a downfield playmaker at this point in his career? Even in 2013 when he had a monster year, he had a 12.9 YPC. I see a clutch volume receiver, better than a possession receiver but not a downfield threat anymore.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So is he still considered a downfield playmaker?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I hope AJ does go to the Colts, because when he does, and has a real QB he will show this coaching staff how dumb they really are. With no QB carousel and a real QB he will have a career year for TDs and possibly yards. And like so many times before the Texans will look dumb.
DUMB DUMB Texans coaching staff, can't believe McNair is allowing this to happen.
DUMB DUMB Texans coaching staff, can't believe McNair is allowing this to happen.
$16M is his cap number. $10M is what he's due.
& these teams willing to pay him $10M, I doubt it. Especially coming from the Colts. They're going to be telling Andre this & that, then hope the Texans balk at the trade compensation.... a 7th in the 2018 draft or something.
The goal is to convince Andre he can get that money & make it impossible for the Texans to convince him otherwise. Which will force us to either take the $16M cap hit, or release him. He'll become a free agent & those willing to pay him $10M will suddenly disappear. They'll say the Texans waited too long to release him or something, but he'll get a contract like Bolden, Steve Smith.
I'd be willing to pay Andre $6M/yr for the next three years. I'd try to sign him to a four year deal with a $12M signin bonus. Salary cap for the next 4 years would look like:
2015 = $3M (new bonus) + $6M (old pro rated bonus) + $1M (vet min salary) we save $6M against the cap. Only $2M short of what we'd save if we cut/trade him.
2016 = $2M (new bonus) + $2M (old pro rated bonus) + $1M (vet min salary)... we'll save $8M against the cap.
2017 = $6M salary... whether he plays or we cut him, we're eating $6M got Andre
2018 = 3M salary + $10M roster bonus....... this is to entice him to play the third year. If he thinks he can still play & we think he can still play (at 38) then we'll negotiate the actual pay... we can cut him here & it only cost us $3M
Makes me sick to think of A.J. in a Colts uni.
You want sick? Say he goes to the Colts and, with a good quarterback, has three or four 1000 yard seasons and a Super Bowl win*. He enters the Hall of Fame as a....???????
*I know, I know - pretty wild speculation for a washed up prima donna.
Given how much cap space some teams have and the "known" quantity of AJ, it wouldn't shock me that one or more teams could do it. Many teams may view it as a 1-yr rental and then cutting / reworking his deal after next season.
It's too much, but every season has a few overpaid FAs.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
You want sick? Say he goes to the Colts and, with a good quarterback, has three or four 1000 yard seasons and a Super Bowl win*. He enters the Hall of Fame as a....???????
*I know, I know - pretty wild speculation for a washed up prima donna.
My question is they say he will go from 80 catches a season to 40, who in the hell is going to take his spot ? A FA, how much will that cost, a draft pick who is unknown. I mean it's not like they were using AJ to his strengths last season. How man WR screens did we see AJ catch last season, that his not his strong point.
If AJ goes to place like the Colts, Patriots or any team with a real QB he will dominate defenses again. Hell i think if he stayed here with Mallet he would do so again, but WTF do i know ?
eriadoc
Texan-American
So our team had one of the best WR to ever play the game, and at a bargain price, and never managed to get out of the first round of the playoffs. Sounds about right.
The good news (?) would be that the Pro Football HOF doesn't include a plaque with a team logo. Just a bust. So we can claim Andre as our HOFer. I know I will.
We got out of the first round, twice. Couldn't get past the second.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Being a great WR doesn't guarantee playoff success, regardless of price. Just ask Calvin Johnson.
For his career, passes attempted to Andre averaged 8.3 yards. Last season, yards per pass attempt to Johnson averaged 6.3 yards. Was that a function of the Texans offense, the QBing, AJ's declining skills, or a combination? Don't know. AJ was at 7.8 yards /attempt in 2013, so it's difficult to put it all on him in '14.
revan
Waterboy
One thing that I thought of, if this whole 80 to 40 catch is true and it's already out there, will it affect us getting a good free agent WR?. I'm sure Cobb and Maclin want to stay put especially with our QB situation and the news that they will play a small role to take Dre's place.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I believe if the narrative we've heard is true then the WR coming in would be the guy taking the role away from AJ so I think any free agent WR we might pursue would be told that. The worst thing about it is the Texans appear to have treated a good man shabbily which might give them pause to come here but nothing that more dollars can't fix.
markn
All Pro
A couple of points:
1. I'm frequently hearing the argument that cutting AJ is a very patriots-like move, ditching high-priced older players. Many are glad the Texans are choosing pragmatism over emotional loyalty. I'm also hearing that the patriots are one of the favorites to sign AJ, which seems a huge contradiction. Anyone got an explanation for this?
2. There also seems to be this broad assumption that AJ is going to be a success wherever he lands, hence the absolute fear and dread of him ending up in Indy. I don't hear much discussion about whether he's possibly at the beginning of a sharp decline. If he was, the people most likely to know would be the Texans coaching staff. Could he in fact be some other team's Ahman Green or Ed Reed?
1. I'm frequently hearing the argument that cutting AJ is a very patriots-like move, ditching high-priced older players. Many are glad the Texans are choosing pragmatism over emotional loyalty. I'm also hearing that the patriots are one of the favorites to sign AJ, which seems a huge contradiction. Anyone got an explanation for this?
2. There also seems to be this broad assumption that AJ is going to be a success wherever he lands, hence the absolute fear and dread of him ending up in Indy. I don't hear much discussion about whether he's possibly at the beginning of a sharp decline. If he was, the people most likely to know would be the Texans coaching staff. Could he in fact be some other team's Ahman Green or Ed Reed?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Maybe. QB play and circumstances causing him not to be in OTA's and learning the system at the same speed as everyone else cloud the issue with many of us. If AJ had been a happy camper, come in like everyone else and l developed some chemistry/timing with Fitz then declining numbers might be more worrying. With everything being new and AJ dragging his feet it only seemed natural that Fitz and Hopkins would connect and that AJ would be out of sync so we don't know if his skills have fallen off that much.
We know how this usually goes for Texans fans though. AJ goes to Indianapolis, plays an integral part in taking us apart in Indy as they go on to the playoffs while we come up short. That's what so many of us expect. I bet AJ's voted into the freaking Pro Bowl next year and I bet the guy who takes his place here doesn't do **** with the targets. That's the Eeyore version that keeps us up at night.
Any other outcome will be a genuine surprise to me.
THe Patriots like to take discarded vets on the cheap. The thinking is that AJ will come cheap to another team, which is TBD at this point.
markn
All Pro
Ha ha, so true. *sobs*
deucetx
Rookie
I don't have as much issue with this move like others. Not because I'm not a fan of Dre because I am. It is simply because I think it is best for the team and it is best for Dre as well.
At this point in his career Dre is not the guy that stretches the field from what I have seen. He is a possession receiver. Does this mean he can not still be productive? No, not even close. He can still move the chains and probably get over 1k in yards for the right team/system.
But at this point with him being a possession guy you look across from him and realize Hop is the same type of receiver. We would look deep with Hop though he really wasn't anyone's burner but his height/leaping ability would give him an advantage in one on one's deep. Still, this offense lacked speed to say the least. They could really use someone opposite of Hop that can stretch the field, that can make that safety take a couple of steps back and not watch the line of scrimmage for the run game.
Not to mention that hefty contract which is more of a #1 receiver paycheck than a solid #2 guy. it's still a business after all.
So yeah, I think Dre can still be effective but at this point may not be the best fit for what this offense needs at this point of his career. All I can do is wish him luck (except in obvious situations) since I suspect he'll be solid where ever he lands.
At this point in his career Dre is not the guy that stretches the field from what I have seen. He is a possession receiver. Does this mean he can not still be productive? No, not even close. He can still move the chains and probably get over 1k in yards for the right team/system.
But at this point with him being a possession guy you look across from him and realize Hop is the same type of receiver. We would look deep with Hop though he really wasn't anyone's burner but his height/leaping ability would give him an advantage in one on one's deep. Still, this offense lacked speed to say the least. They could really use someone opposite of Hop that can stretch the field, that can make that safety take a couple of steps back and not watch the line of scrimmage for the run game.
Not to mention that hefty contract which is more of a #1 receiver paycheck than a solid #2 guy. it's still a business after all.
So yeah, I think Dre can still be effective but at this point may not be the best fit for what this offense needs at this point of his career. All I can do is wish him luck (except in obvious situations) since I suspect he'll be solid where ever he lands.
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Troy Chapman
Rookie
Pats are way over the cap at the moment, they have some moves to make just to get under with their current set of commitments.
Funny how most of Dre's prolific games were with Case Keenum at QB, even last year and with the small sample size of CK at QB for the team. Yet, many/most will say that Dre is washed up and Keenum is not an NFL QB. I hope they both get the opportunity to prove their critics wrong.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
For the record, I'm comparing McNair (not O'Brien) to Bud.
Both are good at making money, but not at running an NFL team.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This actually is not all that Pats like. As TK has pointed out they come to players and say take a pay cut or be cut/traded not we aren't going to use you. For example, folks will incorrectly point to Wes Welker but that was his decision. The Pats offered more money than Denver but Welker had his nose bent. Maybe AJ would be the same way but by the reports no such effort has been made.
Riddle this - how much of last year was on the coaches? 20 receptions behind the line of scrimmage is a definite role decision. How often was he the 2nd or 3rd option compared to prior seasons?
1st 7 games of the season 12.7 ypr. Next 6 he played - 6.0 ypr. Last 2 with Keenum who didn't play the OB way - 12.5 ypr. That spells either a health issue or a philosophy change.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
We all as fans have very limited knowledge of what goes on inside the organization. Our information comes from public sources (trustworthy or not), leaks (usually serving someone's interest), and occasionally from inside source (usually trustworthy, but no guarantee there either). We can all draw conclusions, judge the qualifications of the people on the inside, come up with better options, etc, etc, etc, but none of those discussions will ever amount to anything other than wild ass guesses. It's because we never have the full picture. You keep talking about the big picture, but you can't have the full understanding of what the big picture is because you don't have enough information.
I agree with you occasionally, but I disagree with you most of the time on the cap space issues because you don't allow for the possibility that you're wrong and because your conclusions don't seem logical to me.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Interesting.
And Les Alexander is cut from the same cloth.
There's no reason the city shouldn't have an NHL team. But Alexander, who has reign over Toyota Center (where an NHL team would have to play), has made sure that there won't be one unless he owns it.
I nearly threw up when I read a few days ago that there's going to be a tribute at the arena to the great Rockets from the past, including Olajuwon, Murphy, Francis, etc.......And, of course, Alexander. Amazing.
He deserves a bust on Wall St., too, for all of the clients he screwed back in the junk-bond heyday...
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
Do you work in the Texans' PR department?
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
A player doesn't enter the PF HOF as a member of any team, just as a player/Hall-of-Famer.
markn
All Pro
Interesting point, and I don't pretend to know the answer. My eyes tell me that AJ is declining, but I wanted to try and find a stat to examine any potential decline in a more situational way. I found the article below which analyses Andre's performance vs expected gain for each reception situation, and it's not pretty.
https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/...hnson-is-a-smart-move-for-the-houston-texans
I'm not much of an advanced stats guy, generally preferring the eyeball test, but on initial reading the above seemed fairly conclusive. However, what was particularly interesting was that by their stats, throughout his career, AJ is not particularly spectacular when you take into account how often he is targeted. That didn't seem to agree with my observations, so I have reservations about how much stock to place in their analysis. I suppose any stats that take situation into account are going to be subjective to some degree.