Andre Johnson released - cut by Colts - signs with Titans

[Troy Chapman]

Y'all miss the point on several accounts. First this is the typical MO for Bob McNair, plan for today, tomorrow, not so much. For perspective purposes Daniels played 822 snaps and Graham 566. If they had kept Daniels and let Graham walk the Texans would've received a 2016 comp pick. That single move alone would've almost doubled available cap space in 2015 and added a comp pick in 2016. If the Texans had just kept Manning instead of cutting him and then re-signing him they would've added another 2016 comp pick.

This is why the Texans need a real GM who can make smarter decisions for today as well a tomorrow. If you plan for 2018 and 2017 the 2015 season will take care of it itself and be much more competitive than if just plan for the season 2015. That's also why they needed to trade AJ last year, he was at the age that decline sets in and they could've received a day 2 pick. Now imagine if the Texans had done the above, Daniels $6.3M drops off the books and AJ doesn't have $7.7M in dead money. That's $17M in additional 2015 cap space and (2) 2016 comp picks. Yep the the Texans need a GM with a vision who can understand, see and can plan accordingly. Doubtful it happens, a HC has 1 year tunnel vision and if Bob McNair also has tunnel vision and if he can't see it, or understand it, it's not going to happen.

Hindsight so easy to use. Releasing Daniels was the correct move. I don't think you should be planning your strategy around compensatory picks as they are limited and you can't do anything with them. You don't know if letting Graham walk would had led to a 2015 (not 2016) comp pick, big assumption there. Graham & Daniels were somewhat comparable in 2014 but Graham was kept on board for a smaller cap charge. Releasing Manning was the correct move, the team approached him for a pay reduction, he declined so they released. Couldn't make it with the Bengals, came back for much less money than what the pay reduction offered. You would have had to keep Manning at his $4.5m salary in 2014..for what...in hopes of getting a 2016 comp pick for doing so? You still haven't answered where you are getting that Houston had a Day 2 pick on the table for Johnson.

 

[steelbtexan]

Defenses don't focus their attention on AJ anymore. They focus on stopping the running game. AJ and Hopkins both faced double coverage in passing situations at various times last season. What the team lacks is speed on the outside which causes the coverage to loosen and stretch... AJ doesn't do that anymore.. Hopkins doesn't either. The Texans need someone that does. Therefore, keeping the 25 yr old physical receiver who costs $1 million and replacing the 34 yr old physical receiver who costs $16 million makes some sense.!

We were watching the same game. There was no vertical threat last yr. I blame this on AJ's decline in speed and the type of WR that Kubiak wanted. It's the same reason Walter stuck around for so long.

The addition of speed at WR should open things up for the run game and hopefully the TE's in the passing game. The lack of speed at WR and avg at best QB play bogged the offense down last yr. This is why it was good to see the Texans interview Dorsett/Smith at the combine. Obviously BOB wants to add speed at WR. Wouldn't it be great for Dorsett to carry on Johnson and the U legacy here in Houston. (Not saying that Dorsett will be anywhere as good as AJ.) With that said I will miss AJ and wish him the best.

 

[disaacks3]

And if you think that the "best 53 on the field" doesn't include Andre Johnson but includes Keshawn Martin, Devier Posey, Demarris Johnson, or whichever other jabroni you can conjure up, then that's hilarious.

Yep.

Nobody is winning a Superbowl by featuring Andre Johnson in the passing game. We featured him in 2013, if you recall... That was good for 2 wins. He hasn't broken a tackle or made someone miss in 3 years. The AJ being mourned by some of you today has been gone since the 2011 Steeler game in week two.

Hope this perspective heals some wound in your heart. (it needs to have SOME purpose)

If AJ is thrown 150 balls and plays are designed to create space for him, of course he can put up 100 catches and 1200 yards. So what? That is true of 50 NFL WRs. Certainly it is true of Hopkins, who i beleive will benefit more from having a deep threat opposite him than having a declining HOFer.

Tell us again of how many 1200+ yard receivers there were in 2014, will you? (Here's a hint: It wasn't higher than 12, in 2013, it was 15) If you think that >50% of the teams in the NFL don't run plays designed to "create space" for their WRs, you need to start watching a sport you actually understand.

They agreed to the "40 catch" to the media to save face for AJ and hopefully help his situation with other teams.

If you buy that story, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Strange that the lead headline was "Andre asks for trade or to be cut". I'm just SURE that really helped him "save face". I'm sure it would really appeal to all the future FAs that the Texans hope to sign as well. What a crock. While the "goal" may very well have been to get him to take a pay cut, the way they went about it is up for grabs. I'll go with the guy who hasn't been known for lying over a GM who has a reputation for it (see Dunta Robinson).

I'm very realistic. There was a 0% chance that Dre would be here without a restructure. The Texans helped torpedo that with their refusal to budge last season (which could have made this all go away). All the talk of his "diminished production" last year seems to keep ignoring the fact that he was frequently set up to fail with behind-the-line WR screens that even the fans could see a mile away. Same goes for his misleading "targets" stat.

While he's not the player he once was, he's still better than all but a handful of WRs in the league. Strangely enough, most of those ahead of him are locked up on their own deals and not available in FA.

Does someone think our TE corps is going to make dramatic leaps this year? Why cut your #2 WR, when you're not certain you can replace his production?

All the cap space in the world doesn't help if there's nobody available. The draft is a crapshoot. Take a good look at BoB draft #1 and tell me what you project for this year's crop of Texans picks?

 

[steelbtexan]

That's what I'm saying. If we're rebuilding, lets start dumping all the big contracts. Jjo, Meyers, let Kj walk... everything we should be doing now should be about maximizing our cap space for the future.

Pushing Andre out right now... & just Andre, does not fit that narrative.

I'm for this and think most of the players you listed above will be gone next yr at the latest.

 

[infantrycak]

Yep.

Hope this perspective heals some wound in your heart. (it needs to have SOME purpose)

Tell us again of how many 1200+ yard receivers there were in 2014, will you? (Here's a hint: It wasn't higher than 12, in 2013, it was 15) If you think that >50% of the teams in the NFL don't run plays designed to "create space" for their WRs, you need to start watching a sport you actually understand.


If you buy that story, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Strange that the lead headline was "Andre asks for trade or to be cut". I'm just SURE that really helped him "save face". I'm sure it would really appeal to all the future FAs that the Texans hope to sign as well. What a crock. While the "goal" may very well have been to get him to take a pay cut, the way they went about it is up for grabs. I'll go with the guy who hasn't been known for lying over a GM who has a reputation for it (see Dunta Robinson).

I'm very realistic. There was a 0% chance that Dre would be here without a restructure. The Texans helped torpedo that with their refusal to budge last season (which could have made this all go away). All the talk of his "diminished production" last year seems to keep ignoring the fact that he was frequently set up to fail with behind-the-line WR screens that even the fans could see a mile away. Same goes for his misleading "targets" stat.

While he's not the player he once was, he's still better than all but a handful of WRs in the league. Strangely enough, most of those ahead of him are locked up on their own deals and not available in FA.

Does someone think our TE corps is going to make dramatic leaps this year? Why cut your #2 WR, when you're not certain you can replace his production?

All the cap space in the world doesn't help if there's nobody available. The draft is a crapshoot. Take a good look at BoB draft #1 and tell me what you project for this year's crop of Texans picks?

Thanks for saving me all that typing.

 

[Texian]

Hindsight so easy to use. Releasing Daniels was the correct move. I don't think you should be planning your strategy around compensatory picks as they are limited and you can't do anything with them. You don't know if letting Graham walk would had led to a 2015 (not 2016) comp pick, big assumption there. Graham & Daniels were somewhat comparable in 2014 but Graham was kept on board for a smaller cap charge. Releasing Manning was the correct move, the team approached him for a pay reduction, he declined so they released. Couldn't make it with the Bengals, came back for much less money than what the pay reduction offered. You would have had to keep Manning at his $4.5m salary in 2014..for what...in hopes of getting a 2016 comp pick for doing so? You still haven't answered where you are getting that Houston had a Day 2 pick on the table for Johnson.

For me it wasn't hindsight, a small amount of research will bear that out. Anytime you can increase your draft by 30%, do it. I don't think that Jimmy Johnson, Bill Parcels, Bill Belichick, Ted Thompson or Ozzie Newsome could've been more in clear in the #1 way to get better is by having more draft picks.

If out of every 7 draft picks each draft, 4 draft picks make the roster every year and play out their contracts (4 years), you would've a roster of 16 original players every year. That leaves 37 roster spots that must be filled every year. If you can increase your rosters by 1 or 2 players every year from comp picks you've improved draft quality by 50%.

All those correct moves that you site did what for the 2014 Texans? If instead they had taken the opportunity with a new coach and planned ahead there is no question that the Texans would have much more cap space, more draft picks and would be a much much better team in 2015 and 2016. Some folks can see and understand this, some folks can't.

I'm not your secretary, I believe you have enough smarts and intelligence to do your own basic research. I believe in you!

***PLEASE FAVORITE MY LAST TWO POSTS IN THIS THREAD SO THIS TIME NEXT YEAR YOU WON'T MAKE THE WRONG ACCUSATION OF HINDSIGHT****

 

[dalemurphy]

If that's the way it went down, then fine. I have no problem with that. I even respect the Texans if they agreed to the "40 catch" story, though I don't understand how it helps Andre.

But I'll say it again. If our starting WRs are on this team now... Hop & Posey, Hop & Martin, Hop & Demarius... I'm going to be pissed & there's no way you can convince me that they tried hard enough to keep Andre.

& I'm not saying they needed to bend over backwards to keep him. If they offered him a deal where we'd save $8.8M against the 2015 cap (same as cutting/trading him), $8~ $10M against the 2016 cap & Andre balked, then that's on Andre. That's business. That I can understand & have no problem with.

Of course that is how it went down... Reduced role is code for "we can't pay you like a 1A wide receiver anymore.

and, of course they will add talent at WR. Why assume anything other than that? FA hasn't even started yet. They have stated the need to add speed at WR, even with AJ on the team.

The WR market in free agency and in the draft is very deep. This is a great time to make this move. The Texans can decide to go after an elite FA Wr like Cobb or Maclin, or they can go after a second tier guy with great speed like Torrey Smith, attempt to replace AJ with a similar but younger guy like Crabtree or Britt, or they can add an inexpensive/quality veteran like: Eddie Royal, Hartline, Brandon Lloyd, etc... and then target a stud WR in the first two rounds of the draft.

I think improving the tight end position, adding speed, and upgrading slot WR is a great focus for this offense than having a traditional #1 and #2 WR.

 

[False Start]

I'm so damn sad...

 

[dalemurphy]

Yep.

Hope this perspective heals some wound in your heart. (it needs to have SOME purpose)

Tell us again of how many 1200+ yard receivers there were in 2014, will you? (Here's a hint: It wasn't higher than 12, in 2013, it was 15) If you think that >50% of the teams in the NFL don't run plays designed to "create space" for their WRs, you need to start watching a sport you actually understand.

Correct... However, that has a lot to do with # of targets. There are a lot of WRs in this NFL who would have 1200 yards if they were the 5th most targeted WR in the league. The Texans still have one: Hopkins. What they don't have is a WR who could end up with >15 yards per reception. If they get that guy, not only will he help the run game but he will open up the middle of the field for Hopkins and the TEs... Better TE play and better play in the slot will allow for better distribution of the ball, which is what OBrien wants-- not relentless targeting 2 posession WRs.

 

[Playoffs]

Andre wanted out last year. Now he has his wish. He's QB shopping.

Let's see how much money he gets if he hits open market and compare that to his Houston contract.

And what coach would ever say "We're going to limit you to 40 catches next year"??? Okay, gotta bench you AJ you're over your quota. Only Rick would fumble a conversation into leaving that moronic impression.

Regardless, Andre decided he'll rather take less money away from Houston.

I hope he gets his SB ring. When he goes into the HOF it will be as a Texan and as the greatest WR of all time, imhfo.

...You still haven't answered where you are getting that Houston had a Day 2 pick on the table for Johnson.

They did not. That was supposedly offered 2 years ago and they would, of course, have declined.

I fully expect to see AJ in Indy. Just like Peyton wanted to come to Houston.

 

[Texecutioner]

Here's to outright honesty going forward in the Patriot's style. This should be interesting. If OB produces next year then we're going to be happy campers regardless. If the Texans stumble to an 8-8 or 6-10 finish he's going to catch hell.

So basically you're going to just spew whichever the wind blows and not even pay any attention to the circumstances? Sounds to me like someone who is ready to blow the gasket on an organization at all times. I've got news for you. Until this team gets a stable QB that can hang with some of the big boys and other top 10 QB's this team will be an 8-8 type of team. We're likely not going to have a great QB next year, so we're probably going to be that. OB didn't walk onto a team with a QB, and hasn't had many opportunities at getting a great one either. Hell, he hasn't had even one unless Bortles or Bridgewater pans out. You sound way to eager to have a reason to rake the organization over the coals.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Good luck to AJ. I hope he's able to get that ring.

I honestly thought they'd work something out, but in the end, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

He'll be hard to replace, not only on the field but in the locker room too. As a fan, all I can do is sit back and watch how this offseason unfolds. What will they do to replace AJ? KJ? Newton? All I can hope is that they have a plan

I'll hold off any anger until I see the plan run it's course. There was one game where I thought OB got to see how his offense worked. All I can do is give him the benefit of the doubt until the "plan" fails.

 

[steelbtexan]

It's just business and that I'm not upset about.

How the Texans conduct their business makes me sick though. Bob should be proud of himself. It only took him what? 14 years to get the experience necessary to become good enough to be indistinguishable from the other 31 lying sacks of **** that own NFL teams. Give him 5-6 more years and we'll never know Bud left.

The only thing keeping this team from being the most inept franchise on earth is the existence of the Cleveland Browns.

If I was Andre Johnson I'd be making a b-line for Andrew Luck and the Colts. Might finally get to win a game in Indianapolis before he retires.

^^^^
This and the 7th most profitable franchise in the world is asking taxpayers for 50 mil more to upgrade the SUITE level. I've got a great idea, McNair/HLS&R if you need the suites upgraded at a 13 yr old stadium you pay for the upgrades.

 

[Texecutioner]

Does someone think our TE corps is going to make dramatic leaps this year? Why cut your #2 WR, when you're not certain you can replace his production?

What a common sense question.


Why? Because he is owed $16 Mill on his current contract if you keep him, and there isn't one receiver in the league that is worth that much less a 34 year old that is slotted as a #2 receiver now.

I mean seriously these kinds of questions and fits I'm seeing all over this site on something that could have been seen months ago that this was going to happen is really comical from you guys. Some of you are throwing all rationale and NFL history out of the window for one player of an organization and act like you guys could care less about the entire roster and the team. If AJ is all that you guys have watched this team for all of these years, then follow him wherever he goes and follow him after football if this fandom is going to be this deep.

Bottom line is that the Texans have a football team to build every year, and guys are paid based on what they are expected to produce moving forward. This is life. The NFL is a game, but first and foremost this is a business. A lot of you seem a lot more concerned in AJ's business and brand then the Texans business and brand on the field.

 

[Hervoyel]

So basically you're going to just spew whichever the wind blows and not even pay any attention to the circumstances? Sounds to me like someone who is ready to blow the gasket on an organization at all times. I've got news for you. Until this team gets a stable QB that can hang with some of the big boys and other top 10 QB's this team will be an 8-8 type of team. We're likely not going to have a great QB next year, so we're probably going to be that. OB didn't walk onto a team with a QB, and hasn't had many opportunities at getting a great one either. Hell, he hasn't had even one unless Bortles or Bridgewater pans out. You sound way to eager to have a reason to rake the organization over the coals.

I'm not speaking about myself alone. I'm saying that the follow up to a break up like this will lead to that kind of response (succeed and everyone will be fine with whatever you did, fail and OB will catch hell from the fans who think the Texans didn't do AJ right). That is not too far off of business as usual anywhere.

 

[Pollardized]

Yep.

Hope this perspective heals some wound in your heart. (it needs to have SOME purpose)

Tell us again of how many 1200+ yard receivers there were in 2014, will you? (Here's a hint: It wasn't higher than 12, in 2013, it was 15) If you think that >50% of the teams in the NFL don't run plays designed to "create space" for their WRs, you need to start watching a sport you actually understand.


If you buy that story, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Strange that the lead headline was "Andre asks for trade or to be cut". I'm just SURE that really helped him "save face". I'm sure it would really appeal to all the future FAs that the Texans hope to sign as well. What a crock. While the "goal" may very well have been to get him to take a pay cut, the way they went about it is up for grabs. I'll go with the guy who hasn't been known for lying over a GM who has a reputation for it (see Dunta Robinson).

I'm very realistic. There was a 0% chance that Dre would be here without a restructure. The Texans helped torpedo that with their refusal to budge last season (which could have made this all go away). All the talk of his "diminished production" last year seems to keep ignoring the fact that he was frequently set up to fail with behind-the-line WR screens that even the fans could see a mile away. Same goes for his misleading "targets" stat.

While he's not the player he once was, he's still better than all but a handful of WRs in the league. Strangely enough, most of those ahead of him are locked up on their own deals and not available in FA.

Does someone think our TE corps is going to make dramatic leaps this year? Why cut your #2 WR, when you're not certain you can replace his production?

All the cap space in the world doesn't help if there's nobody available. The draft is a crapshoot. Take a good look at BoB draft #1 and tell me what you project for this year's crop of Texans picks?

Thanks for saving me all that typing.

Go get your own ****ing sources then.



2014 wide receiver cap hit list - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2014/cap-hit/wide-receiver/

Highest cap hit WR on either Patriots or Seahawks was Armendola at $4.7 million. By my count only 6 of the top WR cap hit teams made the playoffs in 2014, and none of those played in Super Bowl. Maybe because big money spent on WR position is better used spread around other positions?

Look at 2015 cap hit list for WR - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/wide-receiver/

At this moment, Calvin Johnson tops at $20 million, Andre would be second at $16 million. Again 6 out of top 20 are on teams that made the playoffs in 2014. Again Armendola is top WR cap hit on teams that played in Super Bowl.

I love Andre Johnson as a Texan as much as anyone, but it makes absolutely no sense to pay an aging/declining player that much money. Consistently successful teams make smart use of their money and resources while not becoming emotionally attached to a player just because of his tenure. When Tom Brady can no longer perform at a consistent winning level, you will see it in New England. It's just the nature of the NFL now. Instead of bashing Rick Smith and Bob McNair for past mistakes, we as fans should be happy to have Bill O'Brien finally able to convince them that the old way of running this team did not lead to consistent success so maybe it's time to try a different approach.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'd rather spend the 16 mill on him than to have to see Manning with another HOF receiver to throw to especially with Kubiak over there to have Manning and all of those all pros make I'm look good. Good lord I'd hate to see that. The Broncos have had some of the most stacked rosters I've ever seen the last few years.

I think that Seattle is a spot that could really use AJ and give him some help. NE has needed a deep threat for years so I'm not sure why they'd want to pay what AJ is likely to demand.

According to Cak the Texans roster is just as talented as the Broncos.

 

[Double Barrel]

au contraire mon frere, he was hated back then for refusing to allow tailgating while refusing to put a winning team on the field

I think the initial wave of hatred was when he fired Bum after the playoffs. Adams was already an AFL maverick that hired his oil buddies to run his team, so fans already knew he was a bit sleazy. But he had all the goodwill in the world after Luv Ya Blue.

Then, he fired Houston's favorite coach, and then favorite RB. Bud didn't even have the balls to tell them in person.

However, he did field a winning team again, 7 straight years to the playoffs with Moon as QB, but only to have three serious (and historic) playoff chokes in a row.

That cemented his fate, because he was not going to play the local political game like Uncle Drayton would do it to fleece the taxpayers for a shiny new crib.

It's the Patriots way. Get rid of big salary and/or aging guys. As much as I have loved having AJ as a Texan, I'm not torn up about him leaving. It's the nature of the business. Plus last years fiasco left a bitter taste. I'd rather concentrate on the team and not one players needs/desires. Even if it is our all time best player.

I keep hearing about the so-called 'Patriot way", but feel there is something missing here that is key to it all...



Oh yeah, a Hall of Fame QB!

It's just business and that I'm not upset about.

How the Texans conduct their business makes me sick though. Bob should be proud of himself. It only took him what? 14 years to get the experience necessary to become good enough to be indistinguishable from the other 31 lying sacks of **** that own NFL teams. Give him 5-6 more years and we'll never know Bud left.

The only thing keeping this team from being the most inept franchise on earth is the existence of the Cleveland Browns.

If I was Andre Johnson I'd be making a b-line for Andrew Luck and the Colts. Might finally get to win a game in Indianapolis before he retires.

Great rant, man. I miss them around here.

Bob will always be > than Bud...mainly due to his first class marketing department learning how to avoid past mistakes in this city.

Bummer to see A.J. go, but it is just business at the end of the day. No different than Ringling Brother retiring Jumbo the Elephant or Opie getting killed off on Sons of Anarchy.

Reality is that NONE of this impacts my real life, and it shouldn't impact any other fan's life in a real tangible way. We still have to get up and go to work everyday and pay Uncle Sam his extortion fees....errrr.....taxes.

If you are really getting emotional about entertainment, perhaps you should step away from the ledge for awhile.

I fully expect to see AJ in Indy.

I would never quit the Texans, but I could move to Tibet and live on a mountain for awhile....at least until Andre wasn't wearing that particular uniform.

 

[eriadoc]

I really wish we drafted Sammy Watkins last year

I was wishing that very thing before, during, and after the draft. Hasn't changed.

 

[Hervoyel]

What a common sense question.


Why? Because he is owed $16 Mill on his current contract if you keep him, and there isn't one receiver in the league that is worth that much less a 34 year old that is slotted as a #2 receiver now.

I mean seriously these kinds of questions and fits I'm seeing all over this site on something that could have been seen months ago that this was going to happen is really comical from you guys. Some of you are throwing all rationale and NFL history out of the window for one player of an organization and act like you guys could care less about the entire roster and the team. If AJ is all that you guys have watched this team for all of these years, then follow him wherever he goes and follow him after football if this fandom is going to be this deep.

Bottom line is that the Texans have a football team to build every year, and guys are paid based on what they are expected to produce moving forward. This is life. The NFL is a game, but first and foremost this is a business. A lot of you seem a lot more concerned in AJ's business and brand then the Texans business and brand on the field.

You're not telling anyone anything they don't already know. We all know this but if you eliminate that element of "the game" (illusion though much of it may be) just see how many people want to go follow their "company" through a 16 week season of "business".

 

[steelbtexan]

We know Aj has been willing to restructure his contract to help the Texans do what they needed to do. It's not too hard to conceive a deal that would allow Andre to play for the Texans for the two more years he says he wants to play & save the Texans the same $8.8M they would save by trading Andre.

We know they didn't make an offer to Mario Williams.

We know they paid more to acquire Ed Reed than it would have cost to secure Glover Quin.

We know they cut a healthy OD the day after he said he was willing to take a pay cut.

I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a trend.

Are you just now starting to see the trend?

 

[The1ApplePie]

AJ is an aging WR with an albatross of a contract. From a numbers game, getting rid of him makes sense.

Best player in franchise history, no doubt, but that kind of contract for a No. 2 WR just won't fly.

Both parties will benefit from this. Texans save a ton of money, AJ gets to go some place with a real NFL QB. Like I said earlier, catching the occasional pass from the Rock'n'Roll QB (he does cocaine!) won't help AJ's slim HOF chances. He needs TDs in a bad way.

 

[Hervoyel]

I think the initial wave of hatred was when he fired Bum after the playoffs. Adams was already an AFL maverick that hired his oil buddies to run his team, so fans already knew he was a bit sleazy. But he had all the goodwill in the world after Luv Ya Blue.

Then, he fired Houston's favorite coach, and then favorite RB. Bud didn't even have the balls to tell them in person.

However, he did field a winning team again, 7 straight years to the playoffs with Moon as QB, but only to have three serious (and historic) playoff chokes in a row.

That cemented his fate, because he was not going to play the local political game like Uncle Drayton would do it to fleece the taxpayers for a shiny new crib.



I keep hearing about the so-called 'Patriot way", but feel there is something missing here that is key to it all...



Oh yeah, a Hall of Fame QB!



Great rant, man. I miss them around here.

Bob will always be > than Bud...mainly due to his first class marketing department learning how to avoid past mistakes in this city.

Bummer to see A.J. go, but it is just business at the end of the day. No different than Ringling Brother retiring Jumbo the Elephant or Opie getting killed off on Sons of Anarchy.

Reality is that NONE of this impacts my real life, and it shouldn't impact any other fan's life in a real tangible way. We still have to get up and go to work everyday and pay Uncle Sam his extortion fees....errrr.....taxes.

If you are really getting emotional about entertainment, perhaps you should step away from the ledge for awhile.



I would never quit the Texans, but I could move to Tibet and live on a mountain for awhile....at least until Andre wasn't wearing that particular uniform.

It's not a rant. I'm not ranting or raving or coming unglued over anything. I just want them to be and act smarter and I understand that they never will be. Genuinely professional and competent management does not appear to be meant for Houston sports teams.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Just though I'd remind everyone the "path" that led to AJ's place in all the record books

David Carr
Tony Banks
Dave Ragone
Sage Rosenfels
Matt Schaub
TJ Yates
Case Keenum
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Tom Savage
Ryan Mallett

 

[thunderkyss]

and, of course they will add talent at WR. Why assume anything other than that? FA hasn't even started yet. They have stated the need to add speed at WR, even with AJ on the team.

Because they normally don't.

That's why I said if. If they actually accomplish something & we have a better team than what we have right now, then that's fine. They had a plan & I was unable to see the big picture.

But I feel we'll see the status quo... I'd be surprised if we get a WR worth a damn before the season starts.

It was great, for a little while there where BPA was available & totally in play. Now... our first two picks will have to be an edge rusher & WR. Not that I was against taking a WR in the first... just liked it better when it was wide open.

 

[thunderkyss]

I love Andre Johnson as a Texan as much as anyone, but it makes absolutely no sense to pay an aging/declining player that much money.

Nobody is advocating paying Andre "that much money." Everyone here is saying his contract would have had to be restructured.

Everyone.

Nobody is advocating paying Andre "that much money." Everyone here is saying his contract would have had to be restructured.

Everyone.

Nobody is advocating paying Andre "that much money." Everyone here is saying his contract would have had to be restructured.

Everyone.

 

[chicagotexan2]

AJ is an aging WR with an albatross of a contract. From a numbers game, getting rid of him makes sense.

Best player in franchise history, no doubt, but that kind of contract for a No. 2 WR just won't fly.

Both parties will benefit from this. Texans save a ton of money, AJ gets to go some place with a real NFL QB. Like I said earlier, catching the occasional pass from the Rock'n'Roll QB (he does cocaine!) won't help AJ's slim HOF chances. He needs TDs in a bad way.

Yeah it happens. As a fan of Andre I'll get over it. I wish both sides would have agreed on a re-structured deal, but they didn't and now it's time to move on. The show doesn't stop for one player. Unfortunately this show too many bit characters and has new episodes that are very similar to the ones in syndication.

I can only hope that this freed up capspace will lead to good things for our roster.

 

[michaelm]

Because they normally don't.



That's why I said if. If they actually accomplish something & we have a better team than what we have right now, then that's fine. They had a plan & I was unable to see the big picture.



But I feel we'll see the status quo... I'd be surprised if we get a WR worth a damn before the season starts.



It was great, for a little while there where BPA was available & totally in play. Now... our first two picks will have to be an edge rusher & WR. Not that I was against taking a WR in the first... just liked it better when it was wide open.

I've been saying for a while that I expect a complete revamping of the WR corps (other than Hop, and I was half way thinking they'd find a way to keep AJ).
The TE are going to get an overhaul too but I'm not sure how much of that can be accomplished in one off season.

 

[disaacks3]

What a common sense question.


Why? Because he is owed $16 Mill on his current contract if you keep him, and there isn't one receiver in the league that is worth that much less a 34 year old that is slotted as a #2 receiver now.

I mean seriously these kinds of questions and fits I'm seeing all over this site on something that could have been seen months ago that this was going to happen is really comical from you guys.

You might try scrolling. I had no doubt that a restructure was a pre-requisite.

Go get your own ****ing sources then.

I already have. They too have numbers that start with 832-667. I'm just not wasting my breath regurgitating what I've heard third-hand as a definitive perspective.

Since neither your guys nor my guys were in the ****ing room where this conversation took place, your hearsay doesn't sound any more / less convincing than what I heard.

Where they do agree is that they HAD to get that cap hit reduced.

Where they differ is the taking a PR hit to save face for Andre, not the Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

AJ is an aging WR with an albatross of a contract. From a numbers game, getting rid of him makes sense.

Best player in franchise history, no doubt, but that kind of contract for a No. 2 WR just won't fly.

Both parties will benefit from this. Texans save a ton of money, AJ gets to go some place with a real NFL QB. Like I said earlier, catching the occasional pass from the Rock'n'Roll QB (he does cocaine!) won't help AJ's slim HOF chances. He needs TDs in a bad way.

It's ridiculous that Bill Belichick can talk Brady into taking less than half what the top paid QB in the league is getting. It's insane to think he can talk Brady into accepting less than 16 other QBs in the league...

But Rick & OB can't talk Andre into taking #2 WR money?

I understand playing hardball & everything, but you open your sales pitch with, ".... maybe 40 catches."

 

[markn]

Good luck to AJ. I hope he's able to get that ring.

AJ's been great, first Texans superstar and a great pro with it. I can't bring myself to wishing him a ring though, because he's definitely going to end up on a team that I don't want to win the super-bowl (there's only one team I want to win it), and there's a very significant chance he ends up on a team I utterly despise. I'll always have a soft spot for him, but frankly, I'm probably rooting against him.

 

[Double Barrel]

AJ's been great, first Texans superstar and a great pro with it. I can't bring myself to wishing him a ring though, because he's definitely going to end up on a team that I don't want to win the super-bowl (there's only one team I want to win it), and there's a very significant chance he ends up on a team I utterly despise. I'll always have a soft spot for him, but frankly, I'm probably rooting against him.

QFT.

The only exception (for me) is if he ends up with Brady in NE, but I doubt they want him or his contract demands at this point in time. They certainly do not need him to win a championship. I understand the hate toward NE, it is the nature of success, but I've enjoyed seeing them accomplish the past decade+ what "experts" said could not be done in this day and age. They are a true dynasty.

As far as A.J., I love the guy (in a fan sort of way, of course), but, I do not buy that any specific player "deserves" a ring. It's not an individual award. Those who truly deserve a ring are those TEAMS that earn it.

 

[thunderkyss]

If the Colts are interested in Andre Johnson... does that mean anything?

 

[infantrycak]

According to Cak the Texans roster is just as talented as the Broncos.

It will be so nice when you graduate up to the adult table.

Didn't say anything about what texecutioner was saying (past years' Broncos rosters) and you know it.

It's ridiculous that Bill Belichick can talk Brady into taking less than half what the top paid QB in the league is getting. It's insane to think he can talk Brady into accepting less than 16 other QBs in the league...

But Rick & OB can't talk Andre into taking #2 WR money?

I understand playing hardball & everything, but you open your sales pitch with, ".... maybe 40 catches."

The "sales job" here looks miserable as if the intent was to drive AJ away to make him look like the bad guy.

And this 'the 40 catch conversation was just made up after the fact to help AJ' storyline makes no sense. As intentional disinformation it makes the Texans look incompetent and doesn't help AJ.

 

[IDEXAN]

If the Colts are interested in Andre Johnson... does that mean anything?

They've got the cap space, right ?
When coaching in college the Colts HC recruited Andre for the U.

 

[steelbtexan]

Y'all miss the point on several accounts. First this is the typical MO for Bob McNair, plan for today, tomorrow, not so much. For perspective purposes Daniels played 822 snaps and Graham 566. If they had kept Daniels and let Graham walk the Texans would've received a 2016 comp pick. That single move alone would've almost doubled available cap space in 2015 and added a comp pick in 2016. If the Texans had just kept Manning instead of cutting him and then re-signing him they would've added another 2016 comp pick.

This is why the Texans need a real GM who can make smarter decisions for today as well a tomorrow. If you plan for 2018 and 2017 the 2015 season will take care of it itself and be much more competitive than if just plan for the season 2015. That's also why they needed to trade AJ last year, he was at the age that decline sets in and they could've received a day 2 pick. Now imagine if the Texans had done the above, Daniels $6.3M drops off the books and AJ doesn't have $7.7M in dead money. That's $17M in additional 2015 cap space and (2) 2016 comp picks. Yep the the Texans need a GM with a vision who can understand, see and can plan accordingly. Doubtful it happens, a HC has 1 year tunnel vision and if Bob McNair also has tunnel vision and if he can't see it, or understand it, it's not going to happen.

Agreed,

Is this vitriolic?

 

[eriadoc]

Most of us agree that AJ is no longer worth the cap hit he was going to cost. Most of us were hoping the team could come to some sort of agreement with him that would enable him to play out his career here without jeopardizing the cap structure and ability to field a team around him. I personally had resigned myself to him leaving. But ask yourself this: Do you really trust a management group that includes Rick Smith to handle this appropriately? Do you expect them to take the cap savings and suddenly build a real contender? For me, it all boils down to trust. While I am willing to let AJ go from a business standpoint, I simply can't trust the current bunch to salve that wound by building a true contender for the Super Bowl. Hell, look at the typically clumsy and jackass manner with which they've handled what should have been a pretty simple conversation. Should have been:

TEAM: AJ, we can't pay you. We need you to take a cut in order to stay.

AJ: I can't do that. Last year was a fluke and I am worth my money.

TEAM: Well then, we've come to a parting of the ways. If you'd like to seek a trade so you can have some control of your destination, we can accommodate that. Or we can just put you on waivers. Your choice.

AJ: We'll seek a trade.

TEAM: We wish you the best, sir.

Instead, we get the BS we got yesterday. Seriously, look back at how the team has handled player relationships since Rick Smith has been around here. Couple that with the way he handled Kubiak's departure, his poor draft record, and his relative inexperience in free agency, and I don't see how anyone can trust he'll do anything right.

 

[Hervoyel]

You know for as long as free agency has been a functional reality (since 1992) we've all been watching players bounce around and it really did kind of ding up the sense of rooting for a team. What that didn't hurt franchise free agency polished off with teams moving all over the place to get new digs.

Now very few franchises get to keep their truly special longtime players and when it's a guy who thinks he can still play but who wants to go somewhere else and just doesn't fit into his old teams plans that's one thing but when you see a guy like AJ getting shown the door due to a salary cap problem that only gets resolved one way that's kind of hard to swallow. It seems like the NFL should entertain the idea of some kind of salary cap exception for players over 10 years with the same team. Guys like AJ spend years restructuring their salaries to help the team manage cap space and then at the end they both (player and team) end up painted into the same corner.

It would be cool if every team could have up to say 2 players who if they were on that team 10 or more years could be paid in money that either didn't count against the cap or on a percentage of that money counted against the cap. Teams wouldn't have to do this (some wouldn't have a guy like that even if they wanted to) but it would be available if they wanted to do that for a player. It still wouldn't help if the team or player wanted to go in another direction but I bet it would help a team like Dallas keep an Emmitt Smith or Houston keep an Andre Johnson. Conduct the business like a business and still recognize that some players transcend that to a certain extent. We've often pointed out how rookies who had done nothing came into the league and were raking in the dough before they ever did a thing. That's been fixed to some extent but what about veterans who've done great things and deserve to be paid maybe not for what they're doing at that instant but what they've done through the course of a career?

Just a thought.

 

[sandman]

Just though I'd remind everyone the "path" that led to AJ's place in all the record books

David Carr
Tony Banks
Dave Ragone
Sage Rosenfels
Matt Schaub
TJ Yates
Case Keenum
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Tom Savage
Ryan Mallett

Pretty sure AJ never caught a pass from Savage...

 

[thunderkyss]

They've got the cap space, right ?
When coaching in college the Colts HC recruited Andre for the U.

I guarantee you they won't be bringing in Andre at a $16M cap hit. It'll probably be something like $3M~$6M but he'll pocket more money. No reason we couldn't do that as well.

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm fine with life after AJ. I'm just tired of watching the Texans make stupid, awkward, ill-timed moves that leave them looking like bad guys and incompetent fools. They wait too long to let guys go, pay them too soon, bend over backwards to bring in garbage and then treat the cream of the crop here like he slapped their kid. There are better ways to do this and it really doesn't take much more effort to do it right than to do it like this.

For a team that places so much emphasis on public relations and character the Texans sure seem to have a hard time making the right moves with the public or showing any of that character themselves. If we're going to a model where we cast aside players we don't think can help us anymore I'm fine with that. We spent better than a decade hanging on to and overpaying guys who couldn't help us so sure, lets go forward and do it right for a change but don't go spending a year telling everybody that AJ's going to be taken care of when you, AJ, and everyone you're talking to knows that bullshit. Just don't do it. Apparently that's too much to ask of an NFL team.

Here's to outright honesty going forward in the Patriot's style. This should be interesting. If OB produces next year then we're going to be happy campers regardless. If the Texans stumble to an 8-8 or 6-10 finish he's going to catch hell.

Hater?

I'm loving seeing all of these types of posts. All it took was for an aging AJ to be let go. The Texans did the right thing even if it was a yr too late.

 

[steelbtexan]

They are all a bunch of lying liars:

"Andre is in a special class, and I think the action we've taken is a reflection of how we view Andre. It's important to us that Andre have one home, and that's with the Texans."
~ Bob McNair, August 5, 2010

"I always said I wanted to play for one team, and to be able to play for the Houston Texans for the rest of my career, it's a tremendous honor."
~ Andre Johnson, August 5, 2010

Source



p.s.

"Loyalty to any one sports team is pretty hard to justify, because the players are always changing; the team could move to another city. You're actually rooting for the clothes when you get right down to it."
~ Jerry Seinfeld

McNair would never lie.

AJ did want to finish his career with the Texans and get paid.

Seinfeld was spot on. I root for the name on the jersey not the player in the jersey.

 

[thunderkyss]

Seinfeld was spot on. I root for the name on the jersey not the player in the jersey.

The next time I see you rooting for a number 8 Texans jersey will be the first time.

 

[Runner]

Comparing the cap saved and Andre's production only looks at part of the equation. So what is the calculus of losing Andre?

X = Y + Z + t

where:

X = cap hit money saved
Y = Andre's production 800-1000 yards(?) if Mallett is indeed a good quarterback. Maybe 700 yards, maybe 1200 yards. Hard to say looking at his past three years performance and quarterbacks.
Z = resources used to replace Andre's production - first/second draft round pick? Money for a free agent? If it is a draft pick, that is a resource that could have been used elsewhere.
t = time for that resource to replace Andre's production. Might be zero. In case of a draft pick, it might be a year or two.

I doubt the above equation is correct - it is most likely and inequality, either:

a) X < Y + Z + t

b) X > Y + Z + t

I think the answer is a).

 

[TexansFight]

Rick Smith's incompetency is on full display for all to see AGAIN with this debacle with Dre. The Texans could have helped both themselves AND Dre by guaranteeing him more money A YEAR AGO and either trading him then or keeping him and have no cap hit this year if they wanted to cut him. Instead, the Texans insult their best player and LIE to his face in asking him to take a "reduced role". That and being stuck with $7million in dead money.

Rick Smith is a dishonorable, punk-ass liar. The Texans are one of the worst run organizations in the NFL and are a laughingstock in league circles because of this move. The Texans do a great job of pissing off their loyal fan base and best player of all time. To hell with the Texans, the Uncle Tom liar known as Rick Smith and the moronic old man who owns this joke of a franchise.

 

[steelbtexan]

Andre wanted out last year. Now he has his wish. He's QB shopping.

Let's see how much money he gets if he hits open market and compare that to his Houston contract.

And what coach would ever say "We're going to limit you to 40 catches next year"??? Okay, gotta bench you AJ you're over your quota. Only Rick would fumble a conversation into leaving that moronic impression.

Regardless, Andre decided he'll rather take less money away from Houston.

I hope he gets his SB ring. When he goes into the HOF it will be as a Texan and as the greatest WR of all time, imhfo.




They did not. That was supposedly offered 2 years ago and they would, of course, have declined.

I fully expect to see AJ in Indy. Just like Peyton wanted to come to Houston.

Are you saying Rick tends to 1. come off as a moron. 2. Is a moron?

Yes, I hope AJ gets a SB ring and a trip to Canton.

 

[Blake]

Am I the only one who is more interested in solutions than arguing over the past?

With Andre gone we have 8.825 million to replace 85 catches, 936 yards and 3 touchdowns.

Sticking around 6 million or under per season you may be able to bring in a guy like Michael Crabtree who is from Texas and had 68/698/4 last season. Cecil Shorts 53/557/1 is another guy who can get you that same production for significantly cheaper.

Or you can see there are several big name WR's potentially hitting the market in a bloated FA WR market.

Mike Wallace
Vincent Jackson
Percy Harvin
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin
Marquese Colston
Randall Cobb
Torrey Smith

There are a ton of options out there that wont even cost us everything we save by releasing AJ. Thus giving us increased flexibility in the draft to go any direction.

Cutting JJo (8.5 million cap savings), and the other 3 million from Andre can go towards keeping Kareem, and maybe another cheaper, FA CB.

 

[Playoffs]

Are you saying Rick tends to 1. come off as a moron. 2. Is a moron?

Reports are it was O'Brien who said he would limit AJ's participation. Odd.

Everybody and their dog believes this was about money -- I just don't think they got to that part of the conversation because AJ walked out.

 

[Speedy]

There's only 2 players in the NFL averaging over 100 catches the last 3 seasons.

#2 - Antonio Brown 101.7
#1 - Andre Johnson 102

And that's with Keenum, Fitzpatrick and a broken down Schaub chunking him the rock.

If it's money (which it ALWAYS is) then say it's money. Don't come out with this reduced role BS! AJ is still a top level WR and I don't get this he's not a #1 any more talk. His production says otherwise, despite the down year last year with craptastic QB play.

 

[Tolar's Ghost]

...and the moronic old man who owns this joke of a franchise.

McNair is basically Bud (Adams) Lite (but with no hair in place of bad hair, or a bad rug).

He's much smoother, of course, but just as lost when it comes to running an NFL franchise.

Most of the public here went ga-ga over him because he "brought" a team back to the city. But if he hadn't, someone else would have.

It was low risk, very high reward. His talent was in realizing that, and schmoozing the powers-that-be at the right time.