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"All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

what does that have to do with anything? he's the best CB currently on our roster regardless of what happened to Reeves. & just because we might get someone better later doesn't mean we should just say "whatever" and release him.

It matters because too many people piss and moan about this because they think Dunta is the best corner we have ever had when in fact that award belongs to Aaron Glenn. Dunta's best season, and only season with at least 5 INTs, came when he had Aaron Glenn on the opposite side of him. Since then the best INT total he has been able to amass was an amazing 2 INTs. The fact is Dunta is not THAT good. The Texans have had awful DBs throughout our history so saying Dunta is one of the best does not say a whole lot.

If you could do what he can do, would you take anything less than what you thought you were worth? Yeah..

You know I could honestly believe that I am worth ten million dollars a year but if I walk into my job and demand that I be paid what I think I am worth, they'll tell me to be sure to not let the door hit me in the ass. The same is going to happen to Dunta if he does not get out on the field and show he is a top 5 corner in this league. A person can believe whatever they want about themselves, but it means nothing until they go out and prove it. So far Dunta has only really proven he can be a star corner when a superstar corner is on the opposite side of him.

How has it become "incredibily clear"? I haven't heard him say he doesn't want to be here. Quite the opposite actually.

When in the last six months has Dunta said he wanted to be here? He did say so repeatedly over the last few years but this offseason saw a major change in Dunta's demeanor. There are two possibilities:

1. Dunta is insane and truly believes after the injury he sustained he should still be paid like a top 2-3 corner
2. Dunta was going to turn down whatever we offered him (and if you believe the reports, he was offered top 5 money) because he does not want to be here.

Once again, I seriously doubt this is bothering his teammates mainly because they know they could very well be in the same situation in the next couple of years. That's for the most part an unwritten rule in these situations amongst players. You don't knock a guy trying to get as much money as he can. Meco and Daniels' situation is different because they are under contract & stand to be fined everyday they miss. Dunta has no such restrictions.

I'm not talking about right now. But if you have ever played the game of football, you should understand how important the "team" aspect is to the game. The team has to work together and their has got to be some team chemistry. If Dunta does not want to be here and is pissed about playing here, how can you not see that this could cause problems in the locker room during the season?

Really? moreso than Glover Quinn and Molden 2 guys with no experience starting in the NFL? Furthermore, don't guys usually play there best in contract years?

If Dunta doesn't play much better than he did at the end of last season, then yes he would be hurting the team more than Quinn or Molden. Combine this with the potential locker room problems Dunta's complaining could cause, and I can definitely imagine him being more of a problem than Quinn and Molden. Finally, at least Quinn and Molden help us see what we have for the future. It is almost a guarantee that if we don't franchise Dunta next year, he is gone. I feel sorry for you if you can't see this.

This speculation that he doesn't want to be here is just that.....speculation & if he were truly as desperate to get out of houston as you claim, he would've walked the instant someone offered him any ol contract or something comparable to what the texans offered him. It's business.

As the poster above stated, he didn't have a choice; the franchise tag does not allow a player to sign with another team. I believe this is why he got so upset. Has he come out and said he doesn't want to play here? Of course not, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want out. In fact everything he has done to this point indicates that he wants out. Is there proof? No. Is there evidence? Yes.
 
Let me ask you then. What does Dunta have to gain by not signing the franchise tender?

Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)
 
I still stand by my thoughts of him showing during camp for at least preseason game or two. I just think he'd be making a huge mistake not coming in and knocking some rust off. I'm not sure how smart Dunta is, but I'd think it'd be wise for him to start the season rust free and ready to go. It's a contract year.....a full contract year not half a season.

FWIW, I'm in the group that understands what Dunta's doing as long as he understands he needs at least a week of practice to get up to speed. If he does that, I'm cool with it. We go on to have a successful year with him then make the decision afterwards. I do not dislike Dunta
 
If DR signs the tag just before the 1st game, does ANYONE think he will be up to speed for game 1????? I suspect he wont be really up to speed until game 3, maybe game 4. So, now your paying a guy, on a pro rated basis, something like 12 million dollars for a 16 game season. Anyone else think that is stupid money? Yes, he WAS our best CB on our team in the past, but based on who he was playing across from, that was sort of like being the smartest kid on the short bus. He looked good by comparison, but IMO was never the great shutdown corner some folks think he was. One heck of a run stopper, but just slightly above average as a cover guy. So, now we have a guy that wasn't a top level cover corner who has had a HORRIBLE injury to his leg (IIRC these guys make their living with their legs). He has worked his butt off to get back to even be able to play, but who thinks that the injury will have no effect on his speed and quickness??? He showed pretty clearly last year that he wasn't close to his former self. I expect he will be better this year I'm sure, but will he ever be back 100%??? I personally doubt it and now he in effect is asking us to pay even more than the 9.9 million, because we wont have full use of his services, to buy what is clearly a "Pig in a poke" situation. IMO, if he hasn't signed by at least 2 weeks before the start of the season so that he can learn the system and get into football shape, then we should pull the F-tag and use the money to sign Meco and OD.
He is not some rookie we're talking about here. He knows the playbook already so look for him to be a Probowl CB on day one. LOL. Rep.
 
Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)

I just can't see them asking him to make that move. I know for some reason it's a semi popular idea on the board to have him moved to safety, but there's no way his frame would handle that. The move would have to be to FS and while Wilson isn't going to the pro bowl next year, he'd still easily start over Dunta.
 
Well one thing that comes to mind is that if he signs the tender he is under contract to attend TC. I have a feeling that he is not too keen on doing this.

I have another reason, purely speculative. D-Rob wants to play CB, but what if the Texans told him that due to his injury and reduced speed, they want him to move to Safety? D-rob doesnt want this, and therefore he's not signing the tender?

As I said, purely speculative :)

If the tag is shifted from CB to Safety, wouldn't that also change how much he gets paid?
 
If the tag is shifted from CB to Safety, wouldn't that also change how much he gets paid?

Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

While his absence is certainly causing headaches in the offices of Smith and Kubiak, I doubt it is hurting the locker-room. The players are all in the same boat: they have to maximize their return in this most short-lived of professions, and sometimes that requires bucking the front office. So long as Dunta isn't moping in the locker-room or on the field (as opposed to taking shots at Rick Smith in interviews), he won't hurt chemistry.
 
Hooston Texan said:
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

Wow. That is very Machiavellian.
 
What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...
 
What ever happens, happens... my thoughts are so what.. Is he a good CB, yes, does he deserve the money, no.. who do I side with, who cares... Pros and cons on both sides...
That's the game fellas, we just need to accept who is on the field and give them the support. DR has not signed, so let's not discuss him, as of now, he is like anyone else who is not playing, no need to discuss them..
Does he give Houston the better chance of winning, sure, he knows the team and the system better than someone new, but does that mean that they can't win without him, no way ! The Texans will still be a playoff caliber team with or without him, so after this post, I will not comment on him again..Just let's not discuss someone not on the team yet... lost cause ...
agree, but you know this thread is going to continue on untill there is a deal done.
 
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

WOW lol. who was the second shooter?
 
Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.
 
Most of this thread is based on speculation that he doesn't want to be here & until i hear the words from Dunta's mouth (like Brandon Marshall currently & Julius Peppers in years past) i'm looking at this as strictly business.

The main reason players don't like to be franchised isn't because they're so anxious to leave, it's because they can't maximize their value on the market; teams have all the advantage in those situations. If the texans front office really thought dunta didn't want to be here, I'm sure they above any other team would've released him and let him see what's truly out there for him. By doing that, they also still would've had the opportunity to sign him as long as they gave the best offer. They didn't do that though, they played their cards & forced him back by slapping the franchise tag on him again.

For those asking what does dunta stand to gain by holding out of training camp, What do the texans stand to gain by forcing a disgruntled player back to the team if it stands to disturb or ruin team chemistry? Why can't dunta play his cards (even if there isn't exactly something tangible to gain) like the texans did by forcing him back with the tag instead of just releasing him?

I think the whole team chemistry to this is overblown anyhow.
I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.
 
I am not sure why they do not take the tag off him but I'm sure they will next offseason. I hope so anyway and both sides move on.

because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.
 
because they know that he's probably better than anyone they have on their roster & the secondary is certified crap now that reeves is gonna be down. that's why & they'd rather take the chance of him coming back & being a cancer rather than let him go & someone else pick him up. He's not shut down but he's solid & there was a reason they quickly franchised him when it was apparent talks were breaking down.
He is the best CB they have for sure. They are getting younger through the draft so once they get better at CB they should part with Dunte.
 
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

The tag value is the average of the top 5 players at your position. Using USA Today's database, the average salary for the top 5 CBs (in terms of cap value that year) is $10.54 million while for safety it is $6.68 million. I admit those numbers are a little off of what the actual tag value is, but they are close. Basically it's close to a $4 million hickey if he is reclassified as a safety.

Whether this is his rationale or not, by missing TC, Dunta is short-circuiting any effort to shift him to safety, thereby ensuring that his tag number is calculated as a CB. If I'm Dunta's agent, I would probably advise him to wait until he believes it is too late for the Texans to try to convert him for this season. When that it is, I don't know, but I presume a good agent would have an idea.

While his absence is certainly causing headaches in the offices of Smith and Kubiak, I doubt it is hurting the locker-room. The players are all in the same boat: they have to maximize their return in this most short-lived of professions, and sometimes that requires bucking the front office. So long as Dunta isn't moping in the locker-room or on the field (as opposed to taking shots at Rick Smith in interviews), he won't hurt chemistry.

Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.
 
Considerably. Shifting Dunta to safety this year and then franchising him in 2010 as a safety would be about the ultimate screw job.

Once he signs his tender this year, he'll get the 9 million he gets for being a cornerback. If, during the season, they switch him to a safety, and try to tender him as a safety, the top five average goes out the window, I'm pretty sure. The Franchise tender is the average of the top 5 or a 10% raise over last year, depending on which is greater. Or at least, that's the way I remember it.

Yep - even if they switched him to safety, and franchised him again (a tin-foil hat idea to be sure), the tender would be based on the higher of the average of the top-5 at the position, or a 20% (Even more than the quoted post indicates) increase over his previous years salary. That means he would have to be tendered at the approx. $10 Million he'll make this year plus 20% even if he's moved to safety. I guess if you believe they'd move him to safety just to screw him over, it's also possible you believe the Texans would pay almost $12 Million for a safety.

Conspiracy theory effectively killed.

Now they could switch him to safety just to damage his value on the open market next year, but:

That if very unlike the Texans.

That probably wouldn't work.

That would be a pretty darn good example of the phrase "Cutting off your nose to spite your face".
 
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I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.
 
This whole situation seems to me to be just like the situation a couple of years ago between Lance Briggs and the Bears. He was furious they put the tag on him and he vowed to never play another down as a Bear. Then he recanted and said he would play if they promised not to tag him again. He finally showd up for the start of the season...iirc. After the season the Bears were going to tag him again, ande then they worked out a long term deal.

Just saying, this is really not a big deal and happens just about every year.

I do not think Dunta is worth top 5 money, but that is not my decision to make.
 
agents offer bad advise, lets blame him :whip: come into camp Dunta & disprove the naysayers :splits:

& this, I think is the whole problem. Maybe his agent does have offers, or insinuations from other teams. Maybe his agent feels he can get him #1 CB money. Look what Haynesworth got, Eli, Kellen Winslow. There are always GMs looking for CBs, so who knows.

But the Texans have a feeling of what Dunta's worth is.
 
I want Dunta here..no one else has shown they can either stay healthy (bennett, Molden) or haven't shown anything period. For all the talk about what Dunta looked like at the end of last year, he was only about 85% & still put up similar stats to bennett.

The only reason Reeves put up better stats is because he started all 16 games and was a frequent target.
Only if he truly wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.
 
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Only if he truely wants to stay. What does that mean? I do not know but he does want the tag off so he may look at other deals for next season that much I know. Do I want to pay him loads of money and then he does not play up to parr? I think not. Not when there is another CB or two the Texans should put their cash into either via trade or the draft JMO.

Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.
 
Next year's not gonna be a good year for drafting cb's, they all came out this year (jenkins, smith, butler, davis) if i'm not mistaken so then there's just the FA route. Asomagua is locked up, so at best you're going to get a CB not much better (if at all better) than Dunta.
While you might be right I think you're counting too much on him wanting to stay because the tag must come off sometime I'd think.
 
You can't do that. It is based on the position he has been playing.

My next though is this: People keep talking about 'Chris Gamble money', is that a fan assessment based on the fast that a top-5 CB income is roughly what Chris Gamble is getting, or has that frase actually been used by 'insiders'?

So the Texans offered him top-5 money, Safety money, but we, the fans and media believe that the top-5 money is CB money... then that would explain why D-rob is so pissy.

Again, this is VERY speculative! :)
 
My next though is this: People keep talking about 'Chris Gamble money', is that a fan assessment based on the fast that a top-5 CB income is roughly what Chris Gamble is getting, or has that frase actually been used by 'insiders'?

So the Texans offered him top-5 money, Safety money, but we, the fans and media believe that the top-5 money is CB money... then that would explain why D-rob is so pissy.

Again, this is VERY speculative! :)

Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.
 
I know what type of player Dunte was before his injury so it's not like I don't want him on the field. He might not ever be the player he once was preinjury and he knows that. Why not go for your next big pay day for one last time? He'll probably still be a ligit starter. If wants to explore other options after this season then that would be out of the control of the Texans. He wants the tag off to look elsewhere I say do it because he might loose interest because he does want the tag off. That would leave the Texans having to draft a replacement CB anyway if he were to go elsewhere. No matter what kind of draft class it is for cb's you may always groom them and you might not have an option if Dunte leaves. If he signs a long term deal after this and is happy and plays with the same love he had in his rookie season than I'll be quite happy with it.
 
Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.

I'm just wondering how many of the Dunta supporters would honestly take Dunta over Chris Gamble.

Total Stats: Dunta - 329 tackles, 275 solo, 4 sacks, 45 pass deflections, 13 INTs

Gamble - 355 tackles, 311 solo, 1 sack, 46 pass deflections, 20 INTs

They have played the same number of seasons although Gamble has played at least 15 games every season. The only area Dunta is better than Gamble are in pass deflections. You could say sacks but 3 of Dunta's sacks came in that rookie season when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

The point is if Dunta got offered anything even close to Gamble's contract, Dunta is a fool to have turned it down.
 
Dunta just called me on my cell and said he will be on field for game 1. "Don't want to miss a check". Does not expect any heat from "his boys" in the D but is a bit ticked at some of the fans comments as he does read this MB frequently. I asked him about his injury and he said "Did I ask you about yours?" and hung up.

I gotta go as Obama is on my cell now. Something about having a beer and clearing up this silly economy thing. I'll update you on anything I can.
 
That would be an interesting poll - head's up this year, same contract for either, who do you take?

I know this wasn't for me but, at 6'1" and 200 lbs and didn't have the massive injury Dunta did it shouldn't be much of a contest. Gamble was athletically raw out of OSU but has rounded off into a solid corner.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Gamble signed a contract this off-season. It made him one of the top 5 paid CB's not necessarily a top 5 skill CB. McClain started the Gamble comparisons (don't recall there being any insider info at the time) because they are of similar age, arguably similar talent level and were both up for new contracts and then that became a common topic of conversation both by pundits and fans. Don't recall there ever being any discussion of safety money.

I'm just wondering how many of the Dunta supporters would honestly take Dunta over Chris Gamble.

Total Stats: Dunta - 329 tackles, 275 solo, 4 sacks, 45 pass deflections, 13 INTs

Gamble - 355 tackles, 311 solo, 1 sack, 46 pass deflections, 20 INTs

They have played the same number of seasons although Gamble has played at least 15 games every season. The only area Dunta is better than Gamble are in pass deflections. You could say sacks but 3 of Dunta's sacks came in that rookie season when he had Aaron Glenn opposite of him.

The point is if Dunta got offered anything even close to Gamble's contract, Dunta is a fool to have turned it down.

I'll take Gamble. I didn't know that was an option.

=====================

I don't know I'm so much a Dunta supporter as I think it's short-sighted to throw away the best option the Texans have available at cornerback because we're mad at him. I think Dunta should sign the tender and play.
 
I'll take Gamble. I didn't know that was an option.

I don't know I'm so much a Dunta supported as I think it's short-sighted to throw away the best option the Texans have available at cornerback because we're mad at him.

I agree. I am the type of person that might get mad at you easily but will forgive you just as quickly. I know I would be willing to let my beef with Dunta go if he shows up with the same passion as he had pre-injury and demonstrates that he wants to play here. Right now, he is the best option the Texans have at cornerback, but my hope is that Quinn, Bennett, McCain, or Molden can take up the mantle. We will see.

Anyway, I started a poll on whether you would take Dunta or Chris Gamble. I did this because if we can believe the reports that Dunta was offered Chris Gamble type money, should he have jumped on the offer or is he actually better than Gamble and deserves more money.

Thanks for the idea Icak.
 
I agree. I am the type of person that might get mad at you easily but will forgive you just as quickly. I know I would be willing to let my beef with Dunta go if he shows up with the same passion as he had pre-injury and demonstrates that he wants to play here. Right now, he is the best option the Texans have at cornerback, but my hope is that Quinn, Bennett, McCain, or Molden can take up the mantle. We will see.

Anyway, I started a poll on whether you would take Dunta or Chris Gamble. I did this because if we can believe the reports that Dunta was offered Chris Gamble type money, should he have jumped on the offer or is he actually better than Gamble and deserves more money.

Thanks for the idea Icak.
Agree. I've said this in my post earlier that this is how I'll judge Dunte this season if plays with the same love and plays hard I'll be all for signing him to a long term deal if he wants to but if he'd rather go snoop around on the market then let him go.
 
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