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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

tedr said:
I know Rick Smith is going nowhere, but I keep going back to this: in his 11 years as GM, the team has a 3-4 playoff record, and has not even made the AFC Championship Game. Frankly, his record is indefensible. If a team cannot make a conference championship game even once in an 11 year span under the same GM, I am dumbfounded how anyone can possibly justify him keeping his job. Unless, of course, winning is not the most important thing.
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You on to something,

Winning isn't nor has it ever been the most important thing for the Texans org.

I've been saying this since 2010. They should've make Ricky stand at mid field during halftime yesterday amongst all of the Terrible Towels.

# Disgusting
 
steelbtexan said:
Ladd actually built the LYB days OL. Thank him for Moon/Matthews/Munchak. Sad to say but we can only hope Ricky rises to the level of Herzeg.
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Just checked. He was the GM from 81-89.

I remember watching Bob Allen calling for him to step down at the end of one his sports segments in the early 80's and just always assumed he was around only for the dismal post-LYB era.

I was a young kid but I remember watching a lot of Cowboys during the early 80's because the Oilers were always blacked out.
 
Rick Smith vs. the other longer tenured GMs:

---Only longer tenured GMs---
Ted Thompson
Ozzie Newsome
Mickey Loomis
Bill Belichick
Mike Brown (also the owner)
Jerry Jones (also the owner)

Which one doesn't belong?
 
zshawn10 said:
Rick Smith vs. the other longer tenured GMs:

---Only longer tenured GMs---
Ted Thompson
Ozzie Newsome
Mickey Loomis
Bill Belichick
Mike Brown (also the owner)
Jerry Jones (also the owner)

Which one doesn't belong?
Click to expand...

What I'd give for Ted Thompson or Mickey Loomis..
 
11928956-mmmain.jpg


Hey there, Rick. Just wanted to take this time to thank you for that top 3 2018 pick you gave us for Osweiller. You and McNair are sly hard wheeler dealers, you are. Unloaded $16 million for a top first round pick that you would have had for at least 4 years. The #2 Mahomes Draft pick in 2017 brought in a $16 million contract.:toropalm:
 
Who is Pittsburgh's GM? I can't remember but damn that org rarely has a less than at least decent season and always seems to be in the playoffs.

I'd take Ted Thompson in a heartbeat and he has ties to Houston football.
 
Porky said:
Who is Pittsburgh's GM? I can't remember but damn that org rarely has a less than at least decent season and always seems to be in the playoffs.

I'd take Ted Thompson in a heartbeat and he has ties to Houston football.
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Pittsburgh’s success has a high correlation to having an elite franchise qb that manages to stay healthy. They then can focus on other areas.

And Rothlesberger was an owner call, not coach or GM.

That QB class was crazy talented. Sad to see Rivers talent wasted.
 
Great Post!
Double Barrel said:
He just got in his own way too many times, especially in the early Oilers days.
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You mean like the first three years when they played for the championship 3 times and won it twice. People can try to rewrite history all they want, but it was Bud Adams that brought pro football to Houston and the Oilers never had a 15 year stretch without at least playing for a conference championship. And of course all it took was leaving Houston to win that championship and go to the Super Bowl. You're right Texan fans are to quick to make excuses and accept average... we get what we deserve.
 
TexansBull said:
Pittsburgh’s success has a high correlation to having an elite franchise qb that manages to stay healthy. They then can focus on other areas.

And Rothlesberger was an owner call, not coach or GM.

That QB class was crazy talented. Sad to see Rivers talent wasted.
Click to expand...

Sad to see the Texans not get Big Ben.
 
ColeThornton said:
Great Post!

You mean like the first three years when they played for the championship 3 times and won it twice. People can try to rewrite history all they want, but it was Bud Adams that brought pro football to Houston and the Oilers never had a 15 year stretch without at least playing for a conference championship. And of course all it took was leaving Houston to win that championship and go to the Super Bowl. You're right Texan fans are to quick to make excuses and accept average... we get what we deserve.
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They were also the worst team in football more than once... and had long stretches of non- winning football
 
Mr. White said:
I hate to say it but this has gotta be the low water mark for me as a fan. Reminds me of the Ladd Herzeg days with the Oilers.

He was also incompetent but at least he didn't blow years worth of 1st rounders when he screwed up on free agent signings.
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It's hard to screw up in FA when FA didn't exist when Herzeg was with the Oilers.
 
JB said:
They were also the worst team in football more than once... and had long stretches of non- winning football
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True. But, the Texans have already achieved that distinction twice in 16 seasons without even a sniff at a conference championship.

The sad part is comparing McNair to Bud and not having much to distinguish beyond an award-winning NRG GameDay Experience®.

ColeThornton said:
Great Post!

You mean like the first three years when they played for the championship 3 times and won it twice. People can try to rewrite history all they want, but it was Bud Adams that brought pro football to Houston and the Oilers never had a 15 year stretch without at least playing for a conference championship. And of course all it took was leaving Houston to win that championship and go to the Super Bowl. You're right Texan fans are to quick to make excuses and accept average... we get what we deserve.
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'eh, tbh, that was before my time and before they were an NFL team.

I do not consider AFL championships in an 8 team league to be that epic.
 
Double Barrel said:
True. But, the Texans have already achieved that distinction twice in 16 seasons without even a sniff at a conference championship.

The sad part is comparing McNair to Bud and not having much to distinguish beyond an award-winning NRG GameDay Experience®.



'eh, tbh, that was before my time and before they were an NFL team.

I do not consider AFL championships in an 8 team league to be that epic.
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Exactly.. People barely count the Houston Dynamo's 2 championships let alone those 2 AFL championships by the Oilers before anyone here was around to actually remember.

while we're at it lets add in those 4 straight WNBA championships by the Comets & the 2 championships by the Houston Aeros.
 
JB said:
They were also the worst team in football more than once... and had long stretches of non- winning football
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But that's true with just about every team JB. The Steelers went 24 years without making the playoffs and had at least one 1 win season in there. Obviously the Steelers franchise is much better than the Oilers, just like the Oilers record is much better than the Texans. Don't you think teams should be compared by the championships and great games they win as opposed to comparing bad years.
 
ColeThornton said:
But that's true with just about every team JB. The Steelers went 24 years without making the playoffs and had at least one 1 win season in there. Obviously the Steelers franchise is much better than the Oilers, just like the Oilers record is much better than the Texans. Don't you think teams should be compared by the championships and great games they win as opposed to comparing bad years.
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The Houston Oilers were 181-214-2 as an NFL team.

The Texans are 106-134.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of "much better" in these records.

Of course, neither team has been to a Super Bowl. 50+ years of futility in Houston, Texas.
 
Double Barrel said:
The Houston Oilers were 181-214-2 as an NFL team.

The Texans are 106-134.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of "much better" in these records.

Of course, neither team has been to a Super Bowl. 50+ years of futility in Houston, Texas.
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The Oilers won championships, had years where they beat the best team in the league, maybe the best team of all time and often played and I think gave their fans a lot more to cheer about. Their owner seemed to really try to bring in players and coaches to improve the team where as this owner just seems to be happy to be one of the boys. If we hadn't run em out of town we would have already been to the SB.
Let me know when the Texans do these things... I won't hold my breath.

PS The Oilers played in the toughest division in the AFC(if not the NFL) for many seasons.
 
TexansBull said:
Pittsburgh’s success has a high correlation to having an elite franchise qb that manages to stay healthy. They then can focus on other areas.

And Rothlesberger was an owner call, not coach or GM.

That QB class was crazy talented. Sad to see Rivers talent wasted.
Click to expand...

Speaking of the Steelers and Roethlisberger's health. Because of his style of play and Bruce Arians' offense, Roethlisberger took a beating. The Steelers were a Super Bowl team, but Ben was sacked over 200 times in four years. Even though they were winning, they understood their QB could not last under the constant hits and made protecting their QB a priority. They didn't renew Arians contract. Hired Haley as OC to incorporate shorter, quicker passes, while still allowing Ben to take his shots downfield. They constantly reminded him to get rid of the ball. They also spent their first round picks in 2010 and 2012 on their starting center and guard. They even got lucking picking Antonio Brown in the sixth round.

The sacks and pressures were reduced significantly. However, the inexperienced OL was still a problem. When the Titans fired Mike Munchak, they aggressively pursued and hired him. Ironically, Munchak turned down the Texans to join the Steelers. In 2017, the Steelers have 3 OL in the Pro Bowl. Among the Pro Bowlers is Alejandro Villanueva who was on the Eagles' 2014 practice squad. Munchak is one of the greatest OL coaches in NFL history and you can see his influence on their OL.

There are a couple of lessons in the Steelers' approach. Just because you're winning, doesn't mean you cannot improve your team. You protect your QB at all cost. If it means firing a successful OC, you do it. If it means spending money on experienced veteran coaching, you do it. I have no doubt that XSF would be a better football player under Munchak. I don't know how they let Munchak get away. He should have been the Texans' OL coach.

Another thing from the Steelers' approach. The owner, GM and HC had the same vision on how best to protect Roethlisberger and what offensive changes they needed. No petty power struggles or gossiping to friendly media personalities. The priority was protecting their franchise QB and winning games. I wish the Texans would do the same. IMHO, O'Brien and Smith have failed McNair and the fans. You cannot separate the two.
 
ColeThornton said:
Great Post!

. You're right Texan fans are to quick to make excuses and accept average... we get what we deserve.
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I don't know where you get that idea from , I don't see anyone here accepting this bullsh!t mediocrity or being deserving of the level of suckitude this franchise has given us since its inception.

We've all b!tched and moaned .... don't see how that's accepting or deserving of anything but a franchise that does its absolute best every year to WIN .... not just fill the seats.


You might deserve it .... I sure don't.
 
Double Barrel said:
True. But, the Texans have already achieved that distinction twice in 16 seasons without even a sniff at a conference championship.

The sad part is comparing McNair to Bud and not having much to distinguish beyond an award-winning NRG GameDay Experience®.



'eh, tbh, that was before my time and before they were an NFL team.

I do not consider AFL championships in an 8 team league to be that epic.
Click to expand...

I started following the Oilers in 1969 . I listened to a lot of radio because they couldn't sell out the game . The Oilers were a laughing stock until they hired Sid Gillman and he brought in Bum Phillips as his DC in 1975 IIRC . Before that Adams hired Bill Peterson from the 1-9 Rice Owls to coach the team . The Oilers sucked some more until Adams made Mike Holovack the VP and then the GM . After that the Oilers were an extremely talented team but never hired the right head coach .
 
Earl34 said:
Speaking of the Steelers and Roethlisberger's health. Because of his style of play and Bruce Arians' offense, Roethlisberger took a beating. The Steelers were a Super Bowl team, but Ben was sacked over 200 times in four years. Even though they were winning, they understood their QB could not last under the constant hits and made protecting their QB a priority. They didn't renew Arians contract. Hired Haley as OC to incorporate shorter, quicker passes, while still allowing Ben to take his shots downfield. They constantly reminded him to get rid of the ball. They also spent their first round picks in 2010 and 2012 on their starting center and guard. They even got lucking picking Antonio Brown in the sixth round.

The sacks and pressures were reduced significantly. However, the inexperienced OL was still a problem. When the Titans fired Mike Munchak, they aggressively pursued and hired him. Ironically, Munchak turned down the Texans to join the Steelers. In 2017, the Steelers have 3 OL in the Pro Bowl. Among the Pro Bowlers is Alejandro Villanueva who was on the Eagles' 2014 practice squad. Munchak is one of the greatest OL coaches in NFL history and you can see his influence on their OL.

There are a couple of lessons in the Steelers' approach. Just because you're winning, doesn't mean you cannot improve your team. You protect your QB at all cost. If it means firing a successful OC, you do it. If it means spending money on experienced veteran coaching, you do it. I have no doubt that XSF would be a better football player under Munchak. I don't know how they let Munchak get away. He should have been the Texans' OL coach.

Another thing from the Steelers' approach. The owner, GM and HC had the same vision on how best to protect Roethlisberger and what offensive changes they needed. No petty power struggles or gossiping to friendly media personalities. The priority was protecting their franchise QB and winning games. I wish the Texans would do the same. IMHO, O'Brien and Smith have failed McNair and the fans. You cannot separate the two.
Click to expand...

This post is correct and I wish the Texans org valued protecting their QB as much as you and I do.

However Haley was hired because he's Dick Haley's kid. (Steelers royalty) Google it.
 
Corrosion said:
I don't know where you get that idea from , I don't see anyone here accepting this bullsh!t mediocrity or being deserving of the level of suckitude this franchise has given us since its inception.

We've all b!tched and moaned .... don't see how that's accepting or deserving of anything but a franchise that does its absolute best every year to WIN .... not just fill the seats.


You might deserve it .... I sure don't.
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Come on, you've got to see all the posts defending them? Are you not reading all the excuses? Have you not heard the adds to get on the "waiting list" for season tickets? Mr Tex thinks O'Brien will "turn (the) team into a year over year contender and win a SB." At least I'm realistic, I'd be happy with a trip to the AFC championship game. Hey, I'm on your side but you've got to admit there's enough fans who accept this crap that the team is going to do just fine with or without guys like us supporting them.
 
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Corrosion said:
I don't know where you get that idea from , I don't see anyone here accepting this bullsh!t mediocrity or being deserving of the level of suckitude this franchise has given us since its inception.

We've all b!tched and moaned .... don't see how that's accepting or deserving of anything but a franchise that does its absolute best every year to WIN .... not just fill the seats.


You might deserve it .... I sure don't.
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I think the fans who post on message boards in the midst of the bad season and throughout the offseason represent a small minority of a fan base. Even people, who are invested PSL and season tickets have not invested the way the group of people posting here are. The biggest evidence that general fan is more okay with than other is the fact that season tickets continue to be sold every year and most years at increased costs. And even if people are refusing to renew, there are about 7 million people in greater Houston, more than enough to go to the next guy who is fine with being 'entertained" on eight Sundays w/o out the expectation of true excellence.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I think the fans who post on message boards in the midst of the bad season and throughout the offseason represent a small minority of a fan base. Even people, who are invested PSL and season tickets have not invested the way the group of people posting here are. The biggest evidence that general fan is more okay with than other is the fact that season tickets continue to be sold every year and most years at increased costs. And even if people are refusing to renew, there are about 7 million people in greater Houston, more than enough to go to the next guy who is fine with being 'entertained" on eight Sundays w/o out the expectation of true excellence.
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For this the fans are getting what they deserve.
 
ColeThornton said:
But that's true with just about every team JB. The Steelers went 24 years without making the playoffs and had at least one 1 win season in there. Obviously the Steelers franchise is much better than the Oilers, just like the Oilers record is much better than the Texans. Don't you think teams should be compared by the championships and great games they win as opposed to comparing bad years.
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But you're advocating change for changes' sake? Pittsburgh didn't get successful until they gave Noll some time. It wasn't until his 4th year that he had a winning record. And it took the Steelers 24 years and you want to blow up the Texans after 15? I ain't saying OB is on the level of Noll, far from it. But I think he's earned that last year and maybe two if injuries don't wreck us again
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
I started following the Oilers in 1969 . I listened to a lot of radio because they couldn't sell out the game . The Oilers were a laughing stock until they hired Sid Gillman and he brought in Bum Phillips as his DC in 1975 IIRC . Before that Adams hired Bill Peterson from the 1-9 Rice Owls to coach the team . The Oilers sucked some more until Adams made Mike Holovack the VP and then the GM . After that the Oilers were an extremely talented team but never hired the right head coach .
Click to expand...

Right there with ya... my first game was at Jeppensen Stadium. I remember the championship years, but it was,nt a big deal in those days... kinda like the Gambers championships

The bak to back 1-13 seasons stand out in the memory of suckitude...
 
JB said:
But you're advocating change for changes' sake? Pittsburgh didn't get successful until they gave Noll some time. It wasn't until his 4th year that he had a winning record. And it took the Steelers 24 years and you want to blow up the Texans after 15? I ain't saying OB is on the level of Noll, far from it. But I think he's earned that last year and maybe two if injuries don't wreck us again
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Not for the sake of change... In an earlier post I gave over 20 examples of new coaches making it to a championship game within their first 4 seasons just since the Texans were in existence. And you come up with one example from 40 some odd years ago... So if I went back 40 years would the examples be 50 to 1 in coaches making it their first 4 years compared to a team sticking with a losing coach a long time?

I think you just made my point!

PS In that "fourth" season Noll went 11-3 and went to the AFC Championship game.
And, his record improved each of his first three seasons.

Surely you've got a better example?
 
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ColeThornton said:
Not for the sake of change... In an earlier post I gave over 20 examples of new coaches making it to a championship game within their first 4 seasons just since the Texans were in existence. And you come up with one example from 40 some odd years ago... So if I went back 40 years would the examples be 50 to 1 in coaches making it their first 4 years compared to a team sticking with a losing coach a long time?

I think you just made my point!

PS Chuck Noll's Steelers went 11-3 his "fourth" season and went to the AFC Championship game.
And, his record improved each of his first three seasons.

You don't even have one example!
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Texans have not been in existence since 1998

You are the one that brought up the Steelers

I know the Steelers went 11-3, without significant injuries, yiu have made my point, you just want to complain and throw out random gobbely gook you can refute later

I;m not trying to give any example..but if you are going to quote facts, then back then up instead of shifting the goalposts
 
JB said:
Texans have not been in existence since 1998

You are the one that brought up the Steelers

I know the Steelers went 11-3, without significant injuries, yiu have made my point, you just want to complain and throw out random gobbely gook you can refute later

I;m not trying to give any example..but if you are going to quote facts, then back then up instead of shifting the goalposts
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Which "fact" did I not back up?
 
JB said:
"Which "fact" did I not back up?"
I can start with the
"I gave over 20 examples of new coaches making it to a championship game within their first 4 seasons just since the Texans were in existence."
Click to expand...


Jon Gruden, Andy Reid, John Fox, Jim Mora, Lovie Smith, Tom Coflin, Mike McCarthy, Ken Whisenhunt, Sean Payton, Brad Childers, Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carol, Bruce Arians, Dan Quinn, Bill Callahan, Tony Dungy, Norv Turner, John Harbaugh, Jim Caldwell, Rex Ryan, Mike Tomlin, John Fox etc... etc...

Like I said, I gave the examples earlier.
 
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ColeThornton said:
Not for the sake of change... In an earlier post I gave over 20 examples of new coaches making it to a championship game within their first 4 seasons just since the Texans were in existence. And you come up with one example from 40 some odd years ago... So if I went back 40 years would the examples be 50 to 1 in coaches making it their first 4 years compared to a team sticking with a losing coach a long time?

I think you just made my point!

PS In that "fourth" season Noll went 11-3 and went to the AFC Championship game.
And, his record improved each of his first three seasons.

Surely you've got a better example?
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How many years did the Steelers stink before that ? Do you know what Noll's formula was on getting players ? It's a resource you can't use today .
 
JB, I don't think most of the folks here want to "blow up the Texans." What they want is real responsibility for job performance, from the front office to the players, and then some "surgical strikes" to remove the failed and failing folks so that they may be replaced with better folks. It frustrates all of us fans because that is currently not happening because the front office (RS) is not being held accountable.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
How many years did the Steelers stink before that ? Do you know what Noll's formula was on getting players ? It's a resource you can't use today .
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The Steelers went about 35 years with only one playoff appearance. And guess what, they tried about 13 different head coaches during that period until they found Noll. During that time they only gave 1 coach more than 4 consecutive seasons and he never made the playoffs, and they got rid of him. So you guys who want to use the Steelers as the example, they averaged giving their coaches less than 4 seasons during their bad stretch, until they found a coach who improved every season and made the AFC Championship game his fourth year.

The Steelers "prove" my point, they kept changing head coaches until they found a great one.

PS And yes I'm familiar with the NFL back in Noll's day. With the parity in todays league quick turnarounds are much more common. That's why I think it's a mistake to keep a losing coach who is 4-11 in his last season.
 
ColeThornton said:
The Steelers went about 35 years with only one playoff appearance. And guess what, they tried about 13 different head coaches during that period until they found Noll. During that time they only gave 1 coach more than 4 consecutive seasons and he never made the playoffs, and they got rid of him. So you guys who want to use the Steelers as the example, they averaged giving their coaches less than 4 seasons during their bad stretch, until they found a coach who improved every season and made the AFC Championship game his fourth year.

The Steelers "prove" my point, they kept changing head coaches until they found a great one.

PS And yes I'm familiar with the NFL back in Noll's day. With the parity in todays league quick turnarounds are much more common. That's why I think it's a mistake to keep a losing coach who is 4-11 in his last season.
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The Steelers started hitting on picks ( some might say with the use of roids ) but they also got John Stallworth , LC Greenwood , Ernie Holmes , Mel Blount , Joe Gilliam , Donnie Shell , Dwight White , Frank Lewis , Joe Green , and more from small schools and most small untapped black schools . They followed what the KC Chiefs started . After that they had a formula that stands today for player development and finding a good coach and leaving them .

ps ... Chuck Noll was 1-13 in 1969 , 5-9 in 1970 , 6-8 in 1971 .
 
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ColeThornton said:
The Oilers won championships, had years where they beat the best team in the league, maybe the best team of all time and often played and I think gave their fans a lot more to cheer about. Their owner seemed to really try to bring in players and coaches to improve the team where as this owner just seems to be happy to be one of the boys. If we hadn't run em out of town we would have already been to the SB.
Let me know when the Texans do these things... I won't hold my breath.

PS The Oilers played in the toughest division in the AFC(if not the NFL) for many seasons.
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I guess you missed the whole AFC South Division Championship years for the Texans.

Here's proof:




AFCSouthChamps.jpg

I'm sure your reply will be that these are not NFL championships. And to that I would respond that the Oilers never did that, either.

I loved the Oilers, but I'm not going to go revisionist history to support an agenda.

The truth is there is not much difference with Houston pro football between the Oilers and Texans. Yeah, the Oilers made it to a conference championship game a couple of times, but they also hold the record for the largest playoff choke in NFL history with 35-3.
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess you missed the whole AFC South Division Championship years for the Texans.

Here's proof:




View attachment 1968

I'm sure your reply will be that these are not NFL championships. And to that I would respond that the Oilers never did that, either.

I loved the Oilers, but I'm not going to go revisionist history to support an agenda.

The truth is there is not much difference with Houston pro football between the Oilers and Texans. Yeah, the Oilers made it to a conference championship game a couple of times, but they also hold the record for the largest playoff choke in NFL history with 35-3.
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A couple of things just came to mind. Not wanting to argue over any of this just thought "Well, the Oiler's did lead off with a pair of AFL titles." (admittedly, didn't make any real difference in the long run) Didn't read the thread before commenting. I see this has already been mentioned. Also when you mentioned "The Choke" which is what we all call "The Comeback" down here I was thinking I'd read somewhere that Frank Reich was soon going to be HC material. How are we supposed to feel if Bob McNair fires Bill O'Brien and the QB who hung that on us ends up getting hired as the Texans HC?

Not saying it's likely or anything. Just the possibility kind of made me throw up a little in my mouth and then I thought "If something like that happened and it worked out that would be some strange friggin mojo/anti-mojo at work there wouldn't it?"
 
Hervoyel said:
A couple of things just came to mind. Not wanting to argue over any of this just thought "Well, the Oiler's did lead off with a pair of AFL titles." (admittedly, didn't make any real difference in the long run). Also when you mentioned "The Choke" which is what we all call "The Comeback" down here I was thinking I'd read somewhere that Frank Reich was soon going to be HC material. How are we supposed to feel if Bob McNair fires Bill O'Brien and the QB who hung that on us ends up getting hired as the Texans HC?

Not saying it's likely or anything. Just the possibility kind of made me throw up a little in my mouth and then I thought "If something like that happened and it worked out that would be some strange friggin mojo/anti-mojo at work there wouldn't it?"
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I have never understood celebrating a championship for what was basically an 8 team minor league, especially when it was almost six decades ago. But, that is the only really glory for the Houston Oilers other than individual players.

I still love 'em, but like an ex-girlfriend, time to move on happened a long time ago.

I'm not a fan of Frank Reich. Partly out of my own attitude about 35-3, but also because looking at his OC career is nothing special outside of 2017. His offense in SD was 17th in points for 2014 and 26th in points for 2015. With the Eagles his offense was 16th in points for 2016, and it's just this season that his offensive scheme has had any sort of success. Plus, when you make an OC into an HC, he then spends less time (or should) micro-managing the offensive scheme and should be looking big picture at team structure, overall talent, motivation, focus, and game management. I'm not a big fan of seeing a head coach with his head buried in a Denny's menu thinking three plays ahead like an OC.

Then there's the whole bad juju / voodoo / ancient Indian burial grounds matrix going on that I, while not superstitious, would not want to poke the football gods to spite us once again because they already hate Houston. :voodoo:
 
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