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All encompassing Rick Smith thread

steelbtexan said:
Tell me more about these ridiculous assertions? There's 15 yrs of evidence that I could possibly be on to something?

Can you honestly say the Texans org has always done everything possible to put the best product on the field possible? Because if the answer is NO, then you should question the McNair's will to bring a championship to this city.

But you wont do that because then you would have to look at the way things are instead of the way you hope things will be. Besides it's much easier to call me a troll than objectively look at things like how/why the McNair's conducted the GM search the way they did.

But you're right about 1 thing, the McNair's must not truly be all about the $$$$. Because if they were they wouldn't have wasted their $$$$ on the scam Korn-Ferry GM search.
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The problem is you're trying to insinuate that there's apathy about winning on the owner's part just b/c the team hasn't actually won big or made the moves you think they should make to win which in the grand scheme is not only stupid its just bad business. There are 20+ other teams every year that also fail to make it to even a divisional round playoff game.... all of which have varying levels of aggression in how they go about building their teams. Are they not doing everything to put the best possible product on the field either?

Then you take your initial assertion & go full on retard with it by making other assertions like McNair only caring about money.........McNair only caring about image & your latest gem, McNair just being a puppet for the outgoing Rick Smith etc, etc...it just never ends. It's almost to the point with you like the players on the field actually playing the games don't even matter in the outcomes of these games/seasons. Don't get me wrong, some of the blame should go on McNair, but not to the level with which you take it.

Furthermore there's no clear line of demarcation that you can point to to say that they aren't doing all they can within reason to bring a championship to this city. & i'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are in no way connected to the FO...........................so what this comes down to is you throwing a bunch of largely baseless allegations against the wall & waiting to see if anything sticks.
 
PapaL said:
I'm so confused right now. I thought Steel would be the happiest mf'er on this board when RS stepped away. This thread is very combative.
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I'm very happy RS is gone.

But I dont think his influence is gone.

Especially if you take Rick at his word, that he will be back.

This is so much like the McNair's do things, cant make a clean break.
 
Shishkabob said:
Rick is gone, they hired one Steelb's top candidates to replace him, but he didn't like how they did it so it all sucks now
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It doesn't all suck,

Do you think it would be a good practice to interview other candidates that weren't a big part of creating this 4-12 mess and learning how other orgs go about their business. The McNair's are missing a great opportunity to learn how to improve their org.
 
Mr teX said:
The problem is you're trying to insinuate that there's apathy about winning on the owner's part just b/c the team hasn't actually won big or made the moves you think they should make to win which in the grand scheme is not only stupid its just bad business. There are 20+ other teams every year that also fail to make it to even a divisional round playoff game.... all of which have varying levels of aggression in how they go about building their teams. Are they not doing everything to put the best possible product on the field either?

Then you take your initial assertion & go full on retard with it by making other assertions like McNair only caring about money.........McNair only caring about image & your latest gem, McNair just being a puppet for the outgoing Rick Smith etc, etc...it just never ends. It's almost to the point with you like the players on the field actually playing the games don't even matter in the outcomes of these games/seasons. Don't get me wrong, some of the blame should go on McNair, but not to the level with which you take it.

Furthermore there's no clear line of demarcation that you can point to to say that they aren't doing all they can within reason to bring a championship to this city. & i'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are in no way connected to the FO...........................so what this comes down to is you throwing a bunch of largely baseless allegations against the wall & waiting to see if anything sticks.
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The McNair's have made over 2 Billion dollars on this deal. I think it's pretty obvious what's most important to them. As far as image goes, look at the team and how they go about acquiring players and the types of players they acquire compared to the Pats. Again it's not conducive to winning.

Unless they change how they go about acquiring players they will never have a consistent winner. Not participating in FA is a sign that they aren't doing everyt
ing within reason to put the best team possible on the field. Again this is not how consistent winner like the Pats go about doing business.

For me the 4-12 is all that matters. Sad thing is if the Texans were ran even half way competently it didn't have to happen. But hey, McNair gets to collect interest on that pile of cash he save by screwing up this yrs draft in the Os trade. I believe the mistake the McNair's made was thinking they were just a QB away from being a contender. Anybody with half a brain could see that wasn't even close to being true.

Lastly the incompetence shown over the last 15 yrs is completely on McNair. It's his team. Because if it wasn't the city would have hopes of a championship in my/probably your lifetime.
 
steelbtexan said:
It doesn't all suck,

Do you think it would be a good practice to interview other candidates that weren't a big part of creating this 4-12 mess and learning how other orgs go about their business. The McNair's are missing a great opportunity to learn how to improve their org.
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you are making way to much out of what they could have learned from an interview, compared to what they already know. Our whole coaching staff knows how new England operates, interviewing caserio wouldn't have changed that, Gaine has worked for numerous organizations, under numerous mentors, we have other members of our staff that have worked elsewhere. They know how other places work, whether they want to copy them or not is up to them. I don't see them gaining much Intel from interviewing other candidates. the biggest thing they could have gained would be other opinions on how to fix this team, but then what do you do with those opinions? If Gaine is the guy you hire anyway and he wants to use plan A. to fix your team, but you think a mix of plan A. and B. is best or plan B. you either have to ignore the information you've been given and trust the guy you hire to do the job you hired him for, or you tell him you think you know what's best, you undermine him and do what you want anyways leaving a useless gm who now knows he has no power in your organization
 
Shishkabob said:
you are making way to much out of what they could have learned from an interview, compared to what they already know. Our whole coaching staff knows how new England operates, interviewing caserio wouldn't have changed that, Gaine has worked for numerous organizations, under numerous mentors, we have other members of our staff that have worked elsewhere. They know how other places work, whether they want to copy them or not is up to them. I don't see them gaining much Intel from interviewing other candidates. the biggest thing they could have gained would be other opinions on how to fix this team, but then what do you do with those opinions? If Gaine is the guy you hire anyway and he wants to use plan A. to fix your team, but you think a mix of plan A. and B. is best or plan B. you either have to ignore the information you've been given and trust the guy you hire to do the job you hired him for, or you tell him you think you know what's best, you undermine him and do what you want anyways leaving a useless gm who now knows he has no power in your organization
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Then why bother interviewing anybody if you already know everything and who you want to hire? We will have to disagree again on the importance of gaining knowledge from others within whatever industry you work in.

The Gaine scenario you laid out has a point. But during the interview you ask the candidate what he would do if he were GM and if you liked an idea from a different GM candidiate you would fit that idea in with all other potential interviews. Tell them the idea and see how they respond, if it's to your liking you hire the person who best fits your vision of your org.

The fact that you think gaining knowledge is not the right thing to do tells me that you've never ran a company. Knowledge is a major key in any industry.
 
Shishkabob said:
How have they not changed the man in charge of acquiring talent? they are now on their 3rd gm in 15 years? they got a guy who you even said was your #2 choice to start making those decisions. You know it is possible for Mcnair to care about both, the money he makes and winning football games right?

Also outside of Houston Rick Smith is actually very respected as is Bob Mcnair, Rick was so respected he was on the NFL competition committee until he recently resigned with his wife's illness. If Rick came back to the NFL, and the Texans let him go he wouldn't be unemployed for long
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If RS were to be truly available for hire....I'd have a real hard time believing that he would be a hot GM commodity on the NFL market. I just can't see this as a reality.
 
steelbtexan said:
Then why bother interviewing anybody if you already know everything and who you want to hire? We will have to disagree again on the importance of gaining knowledge from others within whatever industry you work in.

The Gaine scenario you laid out has a point. But during the interview you ask the candidate what he would do if he were GM and if you liked an idea from a different GM candidiate you would fit that idea in with all other potential interviews. Tell them the idea and see how they respond, if it's to your liking you hire the person who best fits your vision of your org.

The fact that you think gaining knowledge is not the right thing to do tells me that you've never ran a company. Knowledge is a major key in any industry.
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you are right in 27 years old, never ran a company but I do think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. I don't like that they targeted Gaine from the get go, I don't like that they didn't interview other candidates really. I would want multiple opinions on how to fix my team, so I could determine which one was best.

you said it was valuable to interview other people so they could see how other organizations work. I'm simply saying that's not the case, because they should have a strong grasp of how a good chunk of teams work already from who they have staffed here.
 
steelbtexan said:
The McNair's have made over 2 Billion dollars on this deal. I think it's pretty obvious what's most important to them. As far as image goes, look at the team and how they go about acquiring players and the types of players they acquire compared to the Pats. Again it's not conducive to winning.

Unless they change how they go about acquiring players they will never have a consistent winner. Not participating in FA is a sign that they aren't doing everyt
ing within reason to put the best team possible on the field. Again this is not how consistent winner like the Pats go about doing business.

For me the 4-12 is all that matters. Sad thing is if the Texans were ran even half way competently it didn't have to happen. But hey, McNair gets to collect interest on that pile of cash he save by screwing up this yrs draft in the Os trade. I believe the mistake the McNair's made was thinking they were just a QB away from being a contender. Anybody with half a brain could see that wasn't even close to being true.

Lastly the incompetence shown over the last 15 yrs is completely on McNair. It's his team. Because if it wasn't the city would have hopes of a championship in my/probably your lifetime.
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Bob Kraft immediately cut Aaron Hernandez, pulled his jerseys out of the stadium's pro shops & gave pats fans refunds on jerseys they bought of his..
Ray Rice & Colin Kaepernick have both been blackballed from the NFL by all 32 owners for things that they have done & said
And after a brief stint with the cowboys, even jerry jones had to part ways with Greg Hardy b/c his brand was taking too much of a hit.


ALL OWNERS CARE ABOUT IMAGE. Why single out McNair for that? If McNair cared about image half as much as you say he'd have ordered for Cushing to be cut after he was popped for PED's the 1st time. He'd have ordered Arian Foster to be let go after his baby mama drama...Hell D'onta Foreman probably wouldn't have even been on the team after he was arrested for alleged marijuana possession.

& just b/c he owns the team doesn't mean that he's responsible for Kareem Jackson getting beat on a go route.

The way that consistent winners go about business has nothing to do with how the Texans do business b/c their situation is different from ours.....mainly b/c they've had a franchise qb in place for over a decade now. Up until Manning left Indy, they were a model franchise too. Ditto for the 80's 49ers. Lets see how well the Pats operate when they don't have arguably the greatest to ever do it under center for them.
 
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Mr teX said:
Bob Kraft immediately cut Aaron Hernandez, pulled his jerseys out of the stadium's pro shops & gave pats fans refunds on jerseys they bought of his..
Ray Rice & Colin Kaepernick have both been blackballed from the NFL by all 32 owners for things that they have done & said
And after a brief stint with the cowboys, even jerry jones had to part ways with Greg Hardy b/c his brand was taking too much of a hit.


ALL OWNERS CARE ABOUT IMAGE. Why single out McNair for that? If McNair cared about image half as much as you say he'd have ordered for Cushing to be cut after he was popped for PED's the 1st time. He'd have ordered Arian Foster to be let go after his baby mama drama...Hell D'onta Foreman probably wouldn't have even been on the team after he was arrested for alleged marijuana possession.

& just b/c he owns the team doesn't mean that he's responsible for Kareem Jackson getting beat on a go route.

The way that consistent winners go about business has nothing to do with how the Texans do business b/c their situation is different from ours.....mainly b/c they've had a franchise qb in place for over a decade now. Up until Manning left Indy, they were a model franchise too. Ditto for the 80's 49ers. Lets see how well the Pats operate when they don't have arguably the greatest to ever do it under center for them.
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The Texans have the cleanest team in the NFL by directive from McNair. I'm not saying to draft a bunch of criminals, but when you're competing with teams that do draft guys that smoke dope/DWI etc... you gotta get a little dirty.

You're correct the how consistent winners go about their business has nothing to do with how the Texans do business. Hence the Texans aren't consistent winners. BB had a plan for life after Brady and Kraft nixed that plan which is why BB is pissed right now.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
With all the "poop" being produced there, as a fly, you could probably easily find a place to light upon without being noticed as being out of place.
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So ... the Texans front office is fly mecca ?

I wonder if Brian and Bill bowed up to Rick and Rick went all out diva and fired Brian . Realizing he needs him he called him back but it was to late . Now that fly will be as happy as a pig in shyte if Rick does come back and Brian is his boss .
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I think this was what he was referring to .

link
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yeah, but that's not unusual... many coaches interview and don't the job the first time. Kubiak was the best man for the job and a local guy, but McNair decided to go with a coach experienced with an expansion team. When Capers was fired, Kubiak was still the best man for the job
 
JB said:
yeah, but that's not unusual... many coaches interview and don't the job the first time. Kubiak was the best man for the job and a local guy, but McNair decided to go with a coach experienced with an expansion team. When Capers was fired, Kubiak was still the best man for the job
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Not arguing the point........just presenting the chronology.
 
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steelbtexan said:
I'm very happy RS is gone.

But I dont think his influence is gone.

Especially if you take Rick at his word, that he will be back.

This is so much like the McNair's do things, cant make a clean break.
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I’m hoping that things change w Gaine being hired and I hope him and OB foster a great working relationship...but I’m skeptical. Hopeful but skeptical.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
NFL Playoffs Are Not A Road To Riches For Teams
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I was just about to post this very article....
...damn your quick fingers
:D

The NFL's socialist model continues in the playoffs. Playoff home teams in baseball, basketball and hockey keep anywhere from 50% to 100% of ticket revenues, depending on the sport and the number of games in the series. In football, all gate receipts flow to the league. The New England Patriots generate more than $10 million in gate receipts for each home game, but don't see a dime of that. Teams get a stipend to cover expenses for each NFL game. Teams also receive money from the NFL to pay players for their participation in the playoffs (contracts only run through the regular season). Each player on last year's Super Bowl winner, the New York Giants, received a total of $172,000 for four playoff games.
 
infantrycak said:
1 for breathing & heartbeat, 1 for semi-typing.

If I was including you, I would have quoted.

The idea McNair is satisfied with $400 mil when he could be making $850 mil is BS on both the money and winning fronts.

You wanna bet the top 5 on revenue over the past decade don't win more than the bottom 5? Still have that Aston Martin?
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Wait! Doc had an Aston Martin?!?!

Now it makes sense... CloakNNNDagger = 007
 
infantrycak said:
I'm not getting the inside Job part.
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Sorry for the late reply.

It was a poor attempt at humor because some have said that even though the Texans hired a guy they wanted that the Texans put forth a fake GM search because the Texans already had their minds made up about hiring Gaine.

Kubiak interviewed with Capers but didn’t get the job. But the second time around got it. That got me wondering if that was a fake HC search and they already had their minds made up too.
 
steelbtexan said:
The McNair's have made over 2 Billion dollars on this deal. I think it's pretty obvious what's most important to them. As far as image goes, look at the team and how they go about acquiring players and the types of players they acquire compared to the Pats. Again it's not conducive to winning.
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Kraft bought the Patriots in 1994 for $172 million. In Sept 2017 they were worth - according to Forbes - $3.7 BILLION. I don't think that value fell last year.

Making money is probably pretty important to Kraft too.

He hired the right coach and lucked into the GOAT QB - I don't know what else you'd call getting TB12 for a 6th rd pick but luck.
 
ObsiWan said:
Kraft bought the Patriots in 1994 for $172 million. In Sept 2017 they were worth - according to Forbes - $3.7 BILLION. I don't think that value fell last year.

Making money is probably pretty important to Kraft too.

He hired the right coach and lucked into the GOAT QB - I don't know what else you'd call getting TB12 for a 6th rd pick but luck.
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This is all true. Dumb luck certainly had a part in it.

That said, KEEPING the GOAT HC and GOAT QB for 17+ years is pure business acumen. Hats off to Kraft for managing to pull it off consistently for so many years in an era when "experts" said NFL dynasties were a thing of the past.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is all true. Dumb luck certainly had a part in it.

That said, KEEPING the GOAT HC and GOAT QB for 17+ years is pure business acumen. Hats off to Kraft for managing to pull it off consistently for so many years in an era when "experts" said NFL dynasties were a thing of the past.
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Too much credit to kraft there too. Brady is letting them off light b/c he wants to win.
 
Double Barrel said:
This is all true. Dumb luck certainly had a part in it.

That said, KEEPING the GOAT HC and GOAT QB for 17+ years is pure business acumen. Hats off to Kraft for managing to pull it off consistently for so many years in an era when "experts" said NFL dynasties were a thing of the past.
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I f by "business acumen" you mean staying out of the way of the guy he hired to oversee football matters (for the most par) then I agree. No one with common sense screws with something that is working well. It ain't broke and Kraft has the good sense not to try and "fix it".

And Brady is loyal to Kraft because he (well, actually Belichick) the one guy that gave him his shot after the rest of the NFL overlooked him. TB12 is loyal too.
 
Mr teX said:
Too much credit to kraft there too. Brady is letting them off light b/c he wants to win.
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Managing huge egos - and paying them - certainly deserves some credit. Some owners would never give so much control of their billion dollar company to an employee, even when successful. The NFL, among other pro leagues, have examples of owners killing the golden goose. Jerrah immediately comes to mind with the way he treated Jimmy Johnson.

ObsiWan said:
I f by "business acumen" you mean staying out of the way of the guy he hired to oversee football matters (for the most par) then I agree. No one with common sense screws with something that is working well. It ain't broke and Kraft has the good sense not to try and "fix it".

And Brady is loyal to Kraft because he (well, actually Belichick) the one guy that gave him his shot after the rest of the NFL overlooked him. TB12 is loyal too.
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Yeah, knowing how to manage your employees over a long period of success is considered good business acumen, regardless of the industry. Even when that means stepping back and not getting involved as an owner.

Your comment about common sense with messing something that is working well is certainly applicable to Bob McNair's hiring of Ed Reed without his DC's input because he felt his lockerroom was soft.

As far as loyalty, that is are in this day and age of free agency and massive salaries. You don't think Kraft deserves any respect for it? Not all owners could pull it off.
 
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Double Barrel said:
Managing huge egos - and paying them - certainly deserves some credit. Some owners would never give so much control of their billion dollar company to an employee, even when successful. The NFL, among other pro leagues, have examples of owners killing the golden goose. Jerrah immediately comes to mind with the way he treated Jimmy Johnson.



Yeah, knowing how to manage your employees over a long period of success is considered good business acumen, regardless of the industry. Even when that means stepping back and not getting involved as an owner.

Your comment about common sense with messing something that is working well is certainly applicable to Bob McNair's hiring of Ed Reed without his DC's input because he felt his lockerroom was soft.

As far as loyalty, that is are in this day and age of free agency and massive salaries. You don't think Kraft deserves any respect for it? Not all owners could pull it off.
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Brady is highly unusual in that he's willing to be paid less than he could in order to improve the team. Not alone but certainly there are few QB's that would be as forgiving if they had his stature
 
JB said:
Brady is highly unusual in that he's willing to be paid less than he could in order to improve the team. Not alone but certainly there are few QB's that would be as forgiving if they had his stature
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I agree. It is very unusual. He has said, though, that the reason he is willing to do it is because of his relationships with Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick and the belief he has in each man to consistently put together a good team around him.

I wonder how loyal Brady would be if his coach had been Jeff Fisher and his owner someone like Jimmy Haslam with a crappy team year after year.
 
Thorn said:
And in those circumstances, would Brady have been even half way as good as he is now? My guess is probably not.
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It's a really good point. Talent and coaching are a symbiotic thing. Put a young Brady on a team like the Browns and it makes you wonder if he would have been broken before realizing his greatness. Heck, even one of the greatest coaches ever struggled as a HC for the Browns.
 
infantrycak said:
Is that common among GMs? It's standard fare for coaches.
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To name some public admissions:

Jets Tannenbaum..............Tebow
Jets Tannenbaum............ handling of Favre biceps injury
Chiefs Pioli.......... numerous admissions of personnel mistakes
Chargers Telesco..........missed on all kickers
Buccaneers Licht.......acquiring failed kicker Brindza
Buccaneers Licht.......trading up for Aguayo
Browns Farmer...........4 game suspension for texting during games
49ers Balke............responsible for the 2015 roster/record
 
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