The injury thread may give you a clue.
You should read it every week.
It's quite informative.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
The injury thread may give you a clue.
You should read it every week.
It's quite informative.
ColeThornton
Waterboy
I think I figured it out... I'm impressed
Last edited:
ColeThornton
Waterboy
So, according to reports(whatever that's worth), O'Brien will be the #1 draft choice of NFL teams everywhere soon to be looking for a head coach. With all that demand, one would think he could write his own ticket... you know, a long term deal worth shall we speculate at least 5 times what he is owed next year? So why in the world would he offer sticking around without an extension. Does he really love the Texans that much, this is "professional" football. Does he think Watson will make him look so good next season that as a free agent he can make even more on the open market next year? He really is a river boat gambler if he's willing to roll those dice. There's a chance he's about to make a bigger business mistake than anything he's done on the sidelines or maybe there isn't as much demand for his services as we're being led to believe... interesting.
TripleTap
Dead Wood
1) What happened to the idea of TRADING O'Brien? Does it require his agreement, I guess? Will no one make offer because they assume if we let him go they have the chance w/o giving anything up? If he's such a hot commodity I'd guess some kind of trade could be worked.
2) If one of them has to go it should be O'Brien for the simple reason that RS can be moved up to some job that relieves him of player selection but keeps him for financial negotiations. O'Brien cannot be moved up. Nowhere to go. Has no record of player acquisition that I know of.
3) The way the team fell apart this year after key injuries tells me it was not well built, and I mean by this that O'Brien was unable to get the best out of what he had to work with. That's on him. Regardless of what you think of the players provided (and remember, we don't know how much BO had to do with those player acquisitions) he should have been able to put together an 8-8 season, or close to it.
4) All the in-game breakdowns by OB give me no confidence in his being able to coach a team to SB, not even with DW4 improvising at a very high level.
5) Finally, look at the QBs we had this year, apart from DW4. Why would any coach try to play a year in the NFL with who we played with when there were better QBs available on and off all year?
2) If one of them has to go it should be O'Brien for the simple reason that RS can be moved up to some job that relieves him of player selection but keeps him for financial negotiations. O'Brien cannot be moved up. Nowhere to go. Has no record of player acquisition that I know of.
3) The way the team fell apart this year after key injuries tells me it was not well built, and I mean by this that O'Brien was unable to get the best out of what he had to work with. That's on him. Regardless of what you think of the players provided (and remember, we don't know how much BO had to do with those player acquisitions) he should have been able to put together an 8-8 season, or close to it.
4) All the in-game breakdowns by OB give me no confidence in his being able to coach a team to SB, not even with DW4 improvising at a very high level.
5) Finally, look at the QBs we had this year, apart from DW4. Why would any coach try to play a year in the NFL with who we played with when there were better QBs available on and off all year?
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
He's under contract. He has no leverage.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
If there was a team that could generate mutual interest between said team and O'Brien....then could we as a group speculate as to what his trade value might entail, pick wise? I haven't looked it up but didn't another HC get traded in the past? If so, what wa the return?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I've seen Smith working with another head coach. The results were better but still .500ish mostly and that head coach had probably a relatively "equal" position to him (being that he was involved in Smith's hiring which is kind of backwards). I feel like I know what Smith with a new HC is going to look like. I still have some question as to what O'Brien with a new GM will look like. That's it for me in a nutshell.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
After taking over a 4-12 Raiders team Jon Gruden had 2 8-8 seasons and then 12-4 (lost conf) & 10-6 (lost div) with 3rd & 4th Os. Davis wanted a more vertical passing attack. The Bucs were frustrated with 4 out of 5 playoffs with no SB from Dungy. They traded 2 1sts, 2 2nds and $8 mil to the Raiders for Gruden.
It was an ultra rare HC trade and OB is no Gruden. At the time trading for Gruden was considered trading for an Aaron Rodgers. OB would be trading for Andy Dalton.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Thanks for the insight. Yeah, that would be an awesome haul for O'Brien...but you're correct. Even if O'Brien was considered that hot of a prospect, no team in their right mind would pay that type of ransom. I'd be happy if O'Brien returned a RD5 pick to just fill the void in the draft.
Because OB has shown he knows how to beat Cinci,we can get our first two picks back from Cleveland...
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Ugh, RS would wind up trading OB and all our 3rd'd for Marvin Lewis
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
After RS took victory laps at Kirby, the office cleaner would inform him that the Bengals had let him go and at that moment, the new "Brain Trust" of Cal & Rick would realize Lewis was free to sign with any team....it would suddenly get quiet, the percolating would begin and the final statement would be given:
First, we had to terminate an over involved janitorial employee. Second, we're not sure how this mistake was made but we firmly believe, it might be O'Brien's last sabotage as he was exiting the organization. Third, again, we're not sure if this report has legs and it's only speculation, but it could be Marvin Lewis' fault...this will be followed up on at the conclusion of the 2018 season.
You know this how?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ok this has gotten stupid now.
Gruden 4 yrs Raiders
38-26 .595
Last 10-6
O ranks 22, 8, 3, 4
OB 4 yrs Texans
31-33 .490
Last 4-12
O ranks 14, 21, 28, 16
I'll be happy to say I was dead wrong if the Texans trade OB for half as much.
Ok this has gotten stupid now.
I'll be happy to say I was dead wrong if the Texans trade OB for half as much.
Or just let him go,
Which I think is what will happen.
Either way BOB will be gone this offseason, unless McNair extends him and gives him the power he wants. (Not gonna happen)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just letting him go would show Andy Dalton might have been too high an evaluation.
Texan_fan_13
Needed: OL now that we have a QB worth it
I actually still like mallet on paper. His people is between the ears but that’s not this post.
I firmly believe we were sitting on grapolo and blew it. NE jumping over us to grab him was just a little too revealing in my opinion. That is in Rick smith. Guy is no good without Kubiak jmo
Cleveland is slick Rickys favorite trading partner and what a coup if he could deal his nemesis (allegedly) O'Brien to the Browns for some ammo in the 2018 draft, what irony if he got back that 2nd round pick he used to unload the Brockster. And I have no idea what O'Briens market value would be ?
And who knows, O'Brien might not be that opposed to coaching in Cleveland ? He could have his picks of this year class of college QBs in the Draft.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
NE didn't jump. They just picked him. Which was a surprise to most.
MN jumped for Bridgewater which came as a surprise only to the Texans (which may indicate no interest).
Or that OB has no trade value. HC trades are rare as hell. OB's record is anything but exceptional.
ColeThornton
Waterboy
Yes, that's the main point but... Wouldn't he "want" to get fired if all those better offers are then available? And if so, why is he encouraging the Texans to keep him by suggesting not needing an extension? I would think he wouldn't be doing anything to encourage the team to keep his one year deal in place "if" there are much better deals waiting if he is let go... just seems strange
Last edited:
He has no offers at all and no one is lining up. All of that stuff is speculation with nothing behind it
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Coaches and players say things they don't mean at times for politics. Openly being unwilling to honor a contract or work with a GM or owner who won't cede authority to them may turn other owners/GMs off a HC. And realistically there aren't 32 other jobs available. There will be only 6-8. And half or more of those will go to college HCs or NFL coordinators.
TxnsJuggernaut
Veteran
I don't think it is a matter of the organization thinking Os was the worst Qb in the league. However Os was good enough to sit on the bench and remain there throughout the season unless we got down to where he had to play due to too many injuries. I don't think the front office ever imagined a season where at the end we'd be down to a fourth string Qb.
Also just because Os had a terrible season with us I don't think you can overlook the reasons the Texans brought him to the team in the first place. His season before last while with Denver was much better than we got to see.
If they wanted to get rid of Os they could have waited till the right time to cut him. I don't care what kind of GM you think RS is outside of drafting first round picks. You don't throw picks that valuable away especially to part ways with a bad Qb. I would rather take my chances and see if the team gets a quality player at that spot in the draft.
I acknowledge that saving money under the cap as well as overall. and the possibility of acquiring Tony Romo played a role. However they could have been more patient and waited to see for sure what would happen with Tony Romo. Even if Os played better than he had I think BO'b would have saw to it that Os and him part ways.
On a side note I don't care what the press has said in regards to RS and BO'b and how they do or don't get along and can/can't work together. Unless and until one or the other or both are fired and they decide to discuss the matter with the press I will assume that both men made plenty of choices while being on the same page. We will never know the dynamics of their coach and GM relationship until one or both of them discuss it with the press.
Last edited:
ColeThornton
Waterboy
Now "that" would explain his offering to coach without an extension... but, aren't there rules against making offers to or going after a coach while he is still under contract. I guess it could be done discreetly, and certainly O'Brien should have a better feel than anyone else whether or not he is in demand.
My money says O'Brien and Smith will both still be here for the 2018 season.
If O'Brien actually wanted out, all he'd have to do is give McNair a call and tell him "I quit". So all this O'Brien is maneuvering to leave Houston for some (so far unnamed) coaching job is just BS.
Rick Smith won't leave and they won't fire him. When given a proper shopping list, he goes and finds the right talent (see Kubiak's offenses or Wade's and RAC's defenses for proof) He AND the coaching staff need to get better at drafting for depth.
And to be honest, I'm not sure who would be good working for an owner to won't quit dabbling in football stuff. Just write the checks Uncle Bob and let your folks do their jobs.
If O'Brien actually wanted out, all he'd have to do is give McNair a call and tell him "I quit". So all this O'Brien is maneuvering to leave Houston for some (so far unnamed) coaching job is just BS.
Rick Smith won't leave and they won't fire him. When given a proper shopping list, he goes and finds the right talent (see Kubiak's offenses or Wade's and RAC's defenses for proof) He AND the coaching staff need to get better at drafting for depth.
And to be honest, I'm not sure who would be good working for an owner to won't quit dabbling in football stuff. Just write the checks Uncle Bob and let your folks do their jobs.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
USA TODAY
Report: Texans will fire either Bill O'Brien or Rick Smith after season
By: Jeff Risdon | 8 hours ago
Two men enter, one man leaves. Bill O’Brien vs. Rick Smith.
That’s the decision for Houston Texans owner Bob McNair following Week 17, if a scathing report is true.
Aaron Wilson of the Houston Chronicle cites numerous sources in his report of the blistering battle of egos between coach and GM. There has long been talk of animosity between the two men, clashing primarily over personnel choices. The most notable incident was Smith signing QB Brock Osweiler without consulting O’Brien prior to the 2016 season.
O’Brien is entering the final year of his contract. He coached the Texans to three straight 9-7 finishes before injuries ravaged this year’s team to the current 4-11 record.
Smith has been in charge of the Texans front office for 12 years. As Wilson notes, he is extremely close to owner Bob McNair. That could be his trump card despite a spotty history with the draft classes beyond the first rounds.
Stay tuned as the drama heats up following Sunday’s season finale.
Report: Texans will fire either Bill O'Brien or Rick Smith after season
By: Jeff Risdon | 8 hours ago
Two men enter, one man leaves. Bill O’Brien vs. Rick Smith.
That’s the decision for Houston Texans owner Bob McNair following Week 17, if a scathing report is true.
Aaron Wilson of the Houston Chronicle cites numerous sources in his report of the blistering battle of egos between coach and GM. There has long been talk of animosity between the two men, clashing primarily over personnel choices. The most notable incident was Smith signing QB Brock Osweiler without consulting O’Brien prior to the 2016 season.
O’Brien is entering the final year of his contract. He coached the Texans to three straight 9-7 finishes before injuries ravaged this year’s team to the current 4-11 record.
Smith has been in charge of the Texans front office for 12 years. As Wilson notes, he is extremely close to owner Bob McNair. That could be his trump card despite a spotty history with the draft classes beyond the first rounds.
Stay tuned as the drama heats up following Sunday’s season finale.
Last edited:
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
dup
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jeff RisdonVerified account@JeffRisdon 5h5 hours ago
Bill O'Brien won a division title and playoff game with Brock Osweiler, whom he never wanted
Bill O'Brien won a division title and playoff game with Brock Osweiler, whom he never wanted
Where are people getting that O'Brien didn't want Osweiler?
Who or what is the source?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
All credibility is lost with a "without consulting" claim. Not a snowball's chance in hell that happened. "Over the objection of" maybe although then OB lied on multiple occasions.
The truth is coming out
I will give you the over BOB's objections.
The denials are the same posters that denied the Lombardi/Glazer reports last yr.
Face it, Ricky has accomplished his mission of running BOB out of town. It's about the only thing he has accomplished this yr, or for the coming 2 yrs.
I will give you the over BOB's objections.
The denials are the same posters that denied the Lombardi/Glazer reports last yr.
Face it, Ricky has accomplished his mission of running BOB out of town. It's about the only thing he has accomplished this yr, or for the coming 2 yrs.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just because O'Brien said that decisions were "group" decisions means nothing. Call it lying if you want to. That is what a HC is expected to do...........cover for his bosses. Just like all the public favorable complimentary statements he made welcoming Louis Nix to the Texans with open arms.................from inside sources that I trust without reservation.................he HATED the Nix pick
Yep... just like in the corporate world everywhere
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OB went far beyond saying it was a group decision. Double Barrel has on multiple occasions provided quotes from OB about their film review and his agreement Oz was the best FA to target.
He was, and most here were happy that they were at least trying... doesn't mean he wanted Os but he was forced into it by the Garropolo travesty
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Doesn't matter how many times he said it or with what degree of fervor, doesn't change the underlying explanation.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yes it absolutely does. A guy cyaing for the boss will say generic minimal things like your original assertion of "we all agreed." Especially if they disagree they don't get into how they watched every HS & college snap, how they had met him and observed him in joint practices, etc. and don't use language like "the best." They do the absolute minimum because if they do object and are proven right it won't get stuck back up their ass.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
There it is. He was given a choice of candidates he didn’t want and was forced to choose one.
Having to choose between a kick in the balls or a punch in the face doesn’t mean you are for one those if you review the tape and decide the punch in the face cause less harm.
It’s basically an ultimatum that he was forced to choose but wasn’t for. He can spin it for the bosses and say “yea I reviewed the tape and found Os the best and helped choose him” but he isn’t going to complete that sentence and say “although I didn’t want him but given the other choices I had no choice.”
Of course this is speculation but it could have played out that way. McNair was forcing them to get a QB.
It was a surprise... doesn't matter Brian, we needed a QB. It shouldn't have been a surprise given Brady's age and Mallet being Mallet
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've been taught to have the maturity to know sometimes silence is more powerful than having the last word.....................
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Last comment on this. This whole RS forced Oz on OB narrative is inconsistent with the characters. RS comes across as and is portrayed by detractors as a cya artist. A short careered DB going full-tilt head on at an offense minded/QB guru HC over his objection to ram an unwanted QB onto him is the absolute antithesis of cya. I don't believe RS would even attempt to force the issue if OB was looking McNair in the eye with any form of "I don't want him" "I object to him" etc.
I don't think RS has the stones to take that responsibility on solely.
I don't think RS has the stones to take that responsibility on solely.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The CYA comes from McNair saying get me the best free agent QB available. Rick gives OB the choices and says pick one. Even if OB says none of these work, but I pick Os it becomes a collective decision but Rick can put it on OB. It was what he chose the options givens the directive came from McNair. The only way Rick fails is by not getting the player. Rick gets Os, now it’s what McNair ordered and who OB picked.
Every time during the games when Os was off target or threw an interception Rick whispers in McNairs ear “man I don’t know what OB saw in him.”
Wolf
100% Texan
I think the Texans looked at it as. What was out there, what was available In the draft and where we were drafting. Could a rookie develop fast enough to take a team that many thought was a qb away from a super bowl. They went with brock because they were in a win now mode. It didnt work out.
I think the Texans wanted to go into the draft not desperate for a qb (having brock on the roster) and rolled the dice. I also think that if a qb that fell in the draft that they liked,they would have scooped him up being brocks contract was set up in a way they could release him early. It did t work out (obviously)
I think the Texans wanted to go into the draft not desperate for a qb (having brock on the roster) and rolled the dice. I also think that if a qb that fell in the draft that they liked,they would have scooped him up being brocks contract was set up in a way they could release him early. It did t work out (obviously)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Doesn't address this part:
I don't believe RS would even attempt to force the issue if OB was looking McNair in the eye with any form of "I don't want him" "I object to him" etc.
Edit: implied above but to state explicitly, my belief is the 1st person McNair looks to for an answer on how best to improve the QB situation is the HC, especially where he has hired offensive HCs Kubiak & OB.
Sorry but that does not compute.
If, as you've said, O'Brien wanted out because he and Smith were at loggerheads, wouldn't the owner/GM shoving a STARTING QB, who he didn't want, down his throat be perfectly justifiable grounds for resigning?? What other owners would blame O'Brien for leaving such a toxic situation?
That whole conspiracy theory is just flat contradictory.
Last edited: