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Adressing The Secondary -- Draft

H

Historyhorn

Waterboy
With the pickup of Smith and addressing our hole at backup QB, there has been a ton of talk about getting Cushing or going LB with our first round pick.

Is the consensus opinion that our most pressing need is at LB or in our Secondary. We've had more injuries than you can shake a stick at in our secondary and are certainly not what I would consider stellar there.

We put the franchise tag on Dunta to see if he can come back fully from his injury. We've got burnt toast Reeves with Bennett & Faggins as backups. Ferguson & Wilson were the safeties last year.

If Dunta comes back as Dunta next year, we've got a rock on that side, but are fairly mediocre everywhere else. If Dunta doesn't make it all the way back, then we are pretty mediocre all over the secondary.

Why would we go LB when it seems like our secondary is the most pressing need on the team? I know the CB crop this year seems to be light on quality, but the S crop is as deep as it has been in years.

I'm just curious to hear the arguments for taking a LB over strengthening our secondary, especially in light of the fact that many NFL teams are playing a nickel for the majority of their downs now anyway.

Go Texans
 
I think if Mike Jenkins goes on the slide as he didn't run the 40 really good at the combine he might slip to us on draft day and I would love him in our secondary opposite Dunta.
 
PHAROAH said:
I think if Mike Jenkins goes on the slide as he didn't run the 40 really good at the combine he might slip to us on draft day and I would love him in our secondary opposite Dunta.
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Malcolm Jenkins- I like this CB a lot. If our guys think he fits with what this defense is trying to do, I would be thrilled with the selection.

Another guy that may sneak up into the top 20 is Alphonso Smith. The only thing keeping him down is his size. Then again Dunta isn't that big and he went 10 overall.
 
I would rather trade back in to get Sean Smith then Moore and don't get me wrong I think Moore would be a great addition to the team.
 
Put me down for a trade back and draft Darius Butler or Macho Harris. Im actually praying one of them will be available in the second round.
 
Unfortunately I don't think Butler will be there at our pick in the second. His stock went up with his combine performance and he's probably going to run a low 4.3 40 at UCONN's pro day. I would love to have him there though.
 
i honestly don't think CB is a huge need on this team right now. Dunta's franchised and Reeves played pretty well down the stretch. not to mention a 3rd and 4th have been in the last two drafts on the position. Safety on the other hand needs one immediate upgrade as does the NT position. if we trade back in the first i'd look for Sean Smith, Louis Delmas, or Ron Brace if it were later in the round (like 26th or later).

i have a question to go on top of this. i remember hearing that Smith's D used Safetys more like a left and right safety rather than SS and FS like we see a lot of times. does anybody know if Bush is going to keep it this way?
 
Historyhorn said:
With the pickup of Smith and addressing our hole at backup QB, there has been a ton of talk about getting Cushing or going LB with our first round pick.

Is the consensus opinion that our most pressing need is at LB or in our Secondary. We've had more injuries than you can shake a stick at in our secondary and are certainly not what I would consider stellar there.

If Dunta comes back as Dunta next year, we've got a rock on that side, but are fairly mediocre everywhere else. If Dunta doesn't make it all the way back, then we are pretty mediocre all over the secondary.

Why would we go LB when it seems like our secondary is the most pressing need on the team? I know the CB crop this year seems to be light on quality, but the S crop is as deep as it has been in years.
I'm just curious to hear the arguments for taking a LB over strengthening our secondary, especially in light of the fact that many NFL teams are playing a nickel for the majority of their downs now anyway.

Go Texans
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Because, when you put the 2008 DVDs in with Adibi and Dilles both next to Demeeco....the defense actually got some stops...and overall they improved ?
See the Oakland game. That game...Dilles was gone.

Why would they gamble on that ? Why wouldn't they shore that up ? Do that later with two picks or bang it early and find a guy who can cover them both with the first round pick. Also....when you stunt the DTs....it creates natural holes in the defense...and if they miss with their penitration....you better have the LBs who can scrape through the trash and fill in. And they better be able to run. I love our back ups and their cap....neither is a speed merchant. Our two starters , you got one guy who couldn't get on the Field for the first eight games...And you got the other guy coming off the broke leg. My team I back that up with the best guy I can lay my hands on.

I mean do you really want one of the current back ups starting for you the first few games ? Especially after the start the Texans had in '08 ?

Another thing I've thought of....just how do we know we're going with different style FS ? So far they've taken big corners and big Safeties. Their profile so far has been to wait until the second day and develope them. I mean is there a quote from Bush or Kubiak stating we're changing that ? Might change this draft. Not a great class of DBs. It is a great class of linebackers.
 
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Darius Butler was interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio and he mentioned the Texans and a couple other teams having alot of interest in him.
 
We could always go after Jim Leonhard since he has yet to sign with anyone and again could save a draft pick.
 
LonerATO said:
We could always go after Jim Leonhard since he has yet to sign with anyone and again could save a draft pick.
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it would be an option definitely but i'd be a little cautious just because the guy was part of the number one defense in the league. i know that this might add to his value but the way i look at it he had Terrel Suggs, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Ed Reed, Haloti Ngata, Kelly Gregg, Jarrett JohnsonChris McCalister, and Sameri Rolle on the same side of the ball.

he stuck out on a couple of plays to me during the playoffs but i'd be antsy about signing him to a long term deal.
 
I doubt we go after Leonhard. I know the Eagles are pushing hard for him. I would be surprised if he didn't sign with the Eagles.

Hopefully we can retain CC Brown because if not safety becomes an even bigger need when it is already a major need.
 
stingray said:
Darius Butler was interviewed on Sirius NFL Radio and he mentioned the Texans and a couple other teams having alot of interest in him.
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Butler looks like he can play some CB @ the next level. a little leaner more explosive than Mike Jenkins last year from South Florida drafted by the Cowboys right in front of the Texans #25 (makes me wonder if the Texans would have selected him instead of Duane Brown?). I could see a similar trade down scenero then going Butler.
 
I don't think we're as hurt at CB but safety should be something we address. Unless a top tier guy like Jenkins falls into our laps I'd be disapointed if we reached for a CB in the first unless we have no intention of resigning Dunta next year.

If we are intending to resign him then the Molden pick seems like a waste. I remember a lot of people on the board saying guy has first round measureables but small school experience. I hope they are true on that.

First round LB is best value for the team.
 
I think that if one of the elite defensive players drops we obviously take him. If not then I would probably take Cushing at #15, if available, and then take Chung in the 2nd round. If Cushing isn't available in the 1st then we trade down to the mid 20's, hopefully someone wants to trade up, and we take Alphonso Smith, Sean Smith, D.J. Moore, Max Unger, or Alex Mack and then take McKenzie or Freeman in the 2nd round and Chip Vaughn or Michael Hamlin in the 3rd round. We've got to address OLB, SS, and OG/C in the 1st 3 rounds and the order will be determined by player availability.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I doubt we go after Leonhard. I know the Eagles are pushing hard for him. I would be surprised if he didn't sign with the Eagles.

Hopefully we can retain CC Brown because if not safety becomes an even bigger need when it is already a major need.
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Just as I start to warm up to Rashad Johnson, I read that there are at least 4 teams that are interested in the guy.

I've reviewed 4 of his games (Georgia, Miss St., Auburn, and Utah)
He looks like a guy who can contribute right away, unless he gets drafted by a team deep with safeties.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/518691

Besides those traits, he looks like the field general and the ball hawk a team can use in the middle. He's not skinny built, though he can use more weightroom training. Plays bigger than his size, but is not a really really hard hitter.

Very versatile, they use him everywhere:
Disguises his blitz well, decent speed to get there from time to time.
Reads the QBs well, and smart to recognize plays and react quickly.
Comes up to support the run. Can get off blockers.
Plays both SS and FS. Will get off his man (the slot receiver, for example) and gives help to the CBs. Can make plays on the ball.
Was the best defensive backfielder I noticed in all those 4 games.
 
was385 said:
Unfortunately I don't think Butler will be there at our pick in the second. His stock went up with his combine performance and he's probably going to run a low 4.3 40 at UCONN's pro day. I would love to have him there though.
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Didn't his slow time at combine effect him? Of course everyone ran slow and he could turn it around as you said. I just don't see us drafting a CB until after 4th if at all.
 
V3rm0nt3r said:
i honestly don't think CB is a huge need on this team right now. Dunta's franchised and Reeves played pretty well down the stretch. not to mention a 3rd and 4th have been in the last two drafts on the position. Safety on the other hand needs one immediate upgrade as does the NT position. if we trade back in the first i'd look for Sean Smith, Louis Delmas, or Ron Brace if it were later in the round (like 26th or later). I think you are right on target, however, I think FS Rashad Johnson can be there in 3rd. I had him mocked in 4th, but if things break as I hope get what you need in 3rd. There is some talk that Texans may get a LB in FA.

i have a question to go on top of this. i remember hearing that Smith's D used Safetys more like a left and right safety rather than SS and FS like we see a lot of times. does anybody know if Bush is going to keep it this way?
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I think Bush will keep safties pretty much the same as none are true FS with speed. If our Dline develops with Smith and I hope Raji or Brace and our CBs are better it should not matter.

oops! Can you see my post right after your first comment? Sorry.
 
76Texan said:
Just as I start to warm up to Rashad Johnson, I read that there are at least 4 teams that are interested in the guy.

I've reviewed 4 of his games (Georgia, Miss St., Auburn, and Utah)
He looks like a guy who can contribute right away, unless he gets drafted by a team deep with safeties.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/518691

Besides those traits, he looks like the field general and the ball hawk a team can use in the middle. He's not skinny built, though he can use more weightroom training. Plays bigger than his size, but is not a really really hard hitter.

Very versatile, they use him everywhere:
Disguises his blitz well, decent speed to get there from time to time.
Reads the QBs well, and smart to recognize plays and react quickly.
Comes up to support the run. Can get off blockers.
Plays both SS and FS. Will get off his man (the slot receiver, for example) and gives help to the CBs. Can make plays on the ball.
Was the best defensive backfielder I noticed in all those 4 games.
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I would be very happy to have a guy like this on the team. I'm glad his stock seems to have slipped a little from december, when he was being talked about in the late first. He's at the top of my Texans board in the second round. I don't think he will get much bigger, but there are lots of good Strong Safeties in the 205-210 range. He also has the range to play FS, where his size wouldn't be an issue at all.

He kind of reminds me of OJ Atogwe.
 
Just a guess: part of the reason he's, Rashard Johnson, slid a bit...is because he had the monster Terrence Cody in front of him forcing the pocket. I don't know....but part of the reasoning just might be, what is he going to do with no Cody on the next level ?

If Cody can stay healthy and lose another twenty five pounds and covince the scouts and GMs he can stay at 320...he just might be the number one over all next year.
 
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badboy said:
Didn't his slow time at combine effect him? Of course everyone ran slow and he could turn it around as you said. I just don't see us drafting a CB until after 4th if at all.
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so what about the clemson safety who showed up and posted the 4.41 ? No interest ? Not even for a four ?
 
threetoedpete said:
If Cody can stay healthy and lose another twenty five pounds and covince the scouts and GMs he can stay at 320...he just might be the number one over all next year.
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I agree. Cody scares the hell out of me more than any player in this years or next years' draft. He's got the potential to be such a major force and really change the dynamic of the entire defense. I see him as extremely risky though as he's got a huge potential for bust. Like you said, he's got to lose some pounds, show he has a good work ethic, and that his heart is in the game.

Will be very interesting if he plays next offseason like a fellow teammate Andre Smith did. If he shows the scouts and GMs that he isn't taking things serious, is out of shape, and not "ready to participate" in combine drills... he's going to plummet more than Smith.
 
threetoedpete said:
Just a guess: part of the reason he's, Rashard Johnson, slid a bit...is because he had the monster Terrence Cody in front of him forcing the pocket. I don't know....but part of the reasoning just might be, what is he going to do with no Cody on the next level ?

If Cody can stay healthy and lose another twenty five pounds and covince the scouts and GMs he can stay at 320...he just might be the number one over all next year.
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Nope, his play didn't slip a bit without Cody.
I just watch another game (Tenn), and I'm becoming more of a Rashad now.
Once gain, he was the best defender out there, bettered Berry by a loooooooooong mile.

I don't want to fall in "love" with a prospect (does that sound gay? LOL!) but the guy is ready to play at the next level.

He keeps his head in the game.
He can play the short field back in the redzone, blanketing the receiver.
They put him up the middle for a safety blitz twice.
Once with the offense in single backfield formation, the RB right behind the QB. Most likely a play action off a fake draw. Problem is Rashad was on top of the QB before the RB can make the block, let alone trying to fake a draw play. It was 3rd and goal on the 7th.
The second time, he put a fake on the blocker (can't remember if it was a TE or HB or RB), and got to the QB, forcing a bad throw which the other safety could have picked off with better concentration or better hand. The receiver actually committed offensive pass inteference to break up the pass (but got away with the penalty.)

Another safety blitz off the edge forced a hurried incompletion.

He also stop a third down conversion a yard or two short.
It looked like the play would be made by the LB and/or the CB on the sideline. But the offensive player would likely get the first down.
Instead, Rashad flew in and knock him out of bound, from way back there!

Those are the kinds of play that can turn a game around.
(Besides other good plays he made.)

Also, he looks like a good special team contributor on the coverage team.

What else not to like about a safety?

I will review the SEC championship game and see how he does against Tebow and the gang!

Eric Berry, on the other hand, was all hyped up in this game by Todd Blackledge and his partner.
(Again, I'm not saying Berry is not a very good athlete!)
This is the second game that I checked him out (the other was against Vandy, in which DJ Moore probably performed a tad better), but hey, he's only a Soph.
He made a few good plays.
One made the highlight reel, the video that makes it to youtube, in which he laid the wood on the receiver #4 Marquis Maze, and spun him around, all his 5'9 and 171 lbs, great!!!
Maze ran a slant route from the other sideline, concentrated on the catch and didn't have time to see Berry coming. A 3 yd gain on 2-10
He also cleaned Coffee off his feet for a one yd sweep play on 2-3
Other than that, he was pretty much MIA.

Ayers didn't have hardly any effect on the game either!
I'll get to that in another thread later.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I agree. Cody scares the hell out of me more than any player in this years or next years' draft. He's got the potential to be such a major force and really change the dynamic of the entire defense. I see him as extremely risky though as he's got a huge potential for bust. Like you said, he's got to lose some pounds, show he has a good work ethic, and that his heart is in the game.

Will be very interesting if he plays next offseason like a fellow teammate Andre Smith did. If he shows the scouts and GMs that he isn't taking things serious, is out of shape, and not "ready to participate" in combine drills... he's going to plummet more than Smith.
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If the guy can get from 420 lbs down to 360, that's not too bad, right?
 
Against the Gators, Rashad had his first game in which he got caught up in the trash a few too many times.

Granted, he was looking at big guys like WR Nelson 6'4-215; TE Hernandez 6'3-255; TE Tate 6'6-251; and a Guard or two. He wasn't involved in most of those plays, but still it raises some concern.
(Even though he hardly had much problem with the big guys in the previous 5 games that I watched.)

The DEs were having problems with the TEs here and there anyway.

Once, Rashad was able to get off Hernandez to come back for a tackle on Tebow.
He was cut down by Nelson on a TD run, however.
(It was a bad defensive call by the Tides to start with. Whoever was keying on the RB was just not there.)

Overall, the game confirms that Rashad is a football player who can play on Sunday, probably sooner rather than later.

He's a solid gunner on punt return.
He can defend the pass in the redzone.
The guy must have spent a lot of time in the film room as well.
He diagnoses plays really well.

At what spot will he be drafted, I don't know.
But if I have to guess, it would likely be between #20 to #40
 
Nope, his play didn't slip a bit without Cody.
I just watch another game (Tenn), and I'm becoming more of a Rashad now.
Once gain, he was the best defender out there, bettered Berry by a loooooooooong mile.
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well here's hoping you can morph back in the very near furture. He's small. He's not a great tackler....as compared to other front line NFL Safety's....try again. If they take him in the second ok....but he isn't Ed Reed and he's never going to be.
 
threetoedpete said:
well here's hoping you can morph back in the very near furture. He's small. He's not a great tackler....as compared to other front line NFL Safety's....try again. If they take him in the second ok....but he isn't Ed Reed and he's never going to be.
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Johnson isn't a big hitter, but he tackles well in the open field. His size is acceptable for an NFL safety at alittle over 5'11 205. He is really good in coverage, and has great ball skills.

He's no Ed Reed(who is?), but I think he is OJ Atogwe.
 
Goatcheese said:
Johnson isn't a big hitter, but he tackles well in the open field. His size is acceptable for an NFL safety at alittle over 5'11 205. He is really good in coverage, and has great ball skills.

He's no Ed Reed(who is?), but I think he is OJ Atogwe.
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Yeah he's pretty much the same size with Delmas who Mayock had as the #1 safety.
 
Patrick Chung.

I think I have a little firmer grasp on Chung now.
And I have quite a few reservations on the guy.

In the Oregon scheme, he is used quite often as a rover, and he would normally key on the RB.
Or he would play nickle back, taking on the slot receiver, with an eye on the RB, if the play comes his way.
The Ducks would play swarming defense quite a bit.

In that way, he's close to the action, and one of the reasons why he had so many tackles. He's a good tackler, and also when he plays on the slot receiver, he has a good burst to switch to the outside receiver in case of a toss to the flat.

Those are his main values that I can see.

In pass coverage; however, he looks quite a suspect.
He has problem turning around. It was exploited too few of the times.
At the next level, I can see toast burning.
Just like in basketball when you have to watch what a guy does without the ball (or when he's guarding a guy without the ball).
In FB, you watch not just what the QB see, but what he can't see (but an NFL QB would see.)

I can see big receivers giving him trouble just as well as those quirky guys like Anderson or Welker.

A timing route can also present problem to Chung.

He was a very good college player, in the scheme they employ.
But unless he improves dramatically in coverage, I don't see him starting full time in the NFL.

At the moment I see a good backup and/or situational guy.
 
If the Texans want to go for Chung in the 2nd round, they might as well save that pick for another position.

They can have this guy, most likely, as an UDFA:
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=366&player=35

I was reviewing the Independence Bowl to take a longer look at Larry English, and this guy Weldon Brown was used pretty much in the same manner as Chung.
He had a heck of a game.

Overall, he has similar number as Chung for the year.
A fewer tackles, but a few more INTs, PDs, FF, QBH.
He can return kick just as Chung does.

They are somewhat different.
Chung seems to have more energy, while Brown seems to be a bigger hitter,
even though he's listed as smaller than Chung. He can get into the backfield slightly faster it seems, while Chung has a knack for switching from his main assignment to the secondary one right quick.
Also, Chung played against better competition.
 
I would love to get Rashad Johnson in the 3rd and Emanual Cook in the fourth. I think both would start and be better than any combination we have ever had at the S spot.
 
Rashad Johnson in the third will be a big steal.
We had Molden and we didn't know when or whether he can start.
Rashad may not develop much further, but I'm quite confident he can contribute fairly soon, whether as a FS, SS, or a nickel back.
 
The weakness of Chung shows in the Alamo Bowl, against a high octane offense like Okl. St.

They had him playing mostly at safety or nickel.
And what I had mentioned previously hold true about his coverage skills.

When I said that he's not a big hitter, it was not to diminish him in anyway. He's a guy who concentrates on making sure to wrap up to bring his opponent down. He'd rather not throw a big hit, but he sure isn't afraid of one. (Like when he goes up against Pettigrew.)
 
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