Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Adam Schefter reports Carr will not be leaving Houston

NFLforher said:
Lol...

Can anyone else remember that?
Click to expand...
I don't remember that at all and I've followed the team as close as anyone and I'm not big on DC. That said, he was unusually festive when we lost to the 49ers and was giddy when talking about Reggie Bush as most of the coaches knew they were playing their last game. I saw it on Bob Allen's show and I mentioned it here at the time. I thought that wasn't a shining moment for DC as many men (and their families) were losing their jobs that day and would have to move their kids and relationships to other towns.
 
jerek said:
Agreed generally about not making too much out of news this soon, but this is also where the FO would feel that, in order to generate support for Carr and get him focused on playing here next year, they would come out publicly with their decision now.

Once again I laugh at all of the "we won't have any more fans" laments that are already starting up. Once again I reiterate that winning produces fans like humping rabbits and that losing is what kills them off. If our team plays well our stadium will be full and if they do not it will not. I didn't see the Bears' attendance drop off despite Rex Grossman sucking far far worse. For all of the belly aching about passing on Reggie Bush last year no one in Houston has breathed a peep about him in months. Few if any "fans" outside of Austin alum in the month of February were saying squat about how urgently we needed to draft Vince Young until his team started winning as proof of how great he was.

Truth remains now just as it did several months ago that there just aren't any viable decisions to be made this off season that involve dealing Carr. No sure-thing FAs or draft picks that fit long term given their price tag. It's laughable that people think Carr "costs too much for the investment" and yet want to cut/trade him, eat his bonus money, and overpay some other 32+ year old vet in the FA for 1-2 years until we put him out to pasture too and are back to square one. We simply do not now possess the team talent to go foraging for modest upgrades at QB at high cost.

We'll enter camp allowing Sage or some second-day draft pick to fight for the job but we're not going to spend big money when we have too many other bigger needs elsewhere. Too much money spent for too little return and I'd guess that the coaches still think he gets one more year to demonstrate sufficient improvement while we spend 07 looking to improve other positions. Petey Faggins single-handedly lost the Buffalo game and gave up killer big play after killer big play all year long--I have seen zero "cut Petey" threads. Our interior DL was made out of play-doh, our OL still haphazard and only getting older, our safeties utterly useless in even zone deep coverage, our linebackers outside of DeMeco listless, our number one pick putting together a good year before being slowed by injury ... but of course David Carr is the face of every failure in the quarterbacks-are-the-only-position-on-a-losing-team world of the message board fans.
Click to expand...

You basically answered your own question while affirming my idea. It isn't the job of any FO to pander to fan demand for personnel decisions. It is the job of a FO who wants a revitalized fanbase to construct a winning team. The salary cap is also a reality of business in the NFL and I just don't expect or ask for the Texans to hamstring themselves financially this season to shut up a malcontent minority of the fanbase for a few months when I'd rather them invest in what they believe will most efficiently generate wins, which makes fans of all types feel better. Hell, I might not even mind hamstringing ourselves financially if there was an obviously dramatically better prospect at QB available, but there's not even that.

Healthy PR in general is of course important but you are overstating its relation to basic personnel decisions. Sure if Bob McNair got on TV tonight and flipped us all the bird and said to hell with what any Houston Texan fan thinks, I don't need any of you, then yes, that would certainly sour fan reception. However next time he is on TV it will be to endorse his second-year coach and GM and his belief in their decisions. The Atlanta Hawks are the "Atlanta Hawks" because they suck year after year--unless you are suggesting for some reason they suck because they do not have fan support. The NBA in particular is a poor example with which to make your case as only the best teams consistently sell out and some of the very best players routinely play for half-attendance because their teams and thus their W-L records are lousy.


Jerek Dropping that knowledge, Great couple of posts man!
 
Carr to Cleveland plus picks, for the Browns first pick ( 3rd overall ) to pick up AP. So here is a story on NFL.com, and I was thinking what the Texans fan base thinks?
 
thunderkyss said:
There is only one reason I can see for The Atlanta Falcons drafting Michael Vick, and then continue to trot him out there as their starter..... & that's to appease fans. Most people believe he is not the best QB on that team, and does not give his team the best chance of winning.

I understand what you are saying, but that club that made that decision is closer to winning than we are. Of course being in the NFC is a big part of that.

I cannot see how the Houston Texans can continue to tell us that David Carr is the best thing we can find as a QB solution. He doesn't look ready.... I just finished watching the first Jacksonville game, and while I agree it was a good game for Carr, you can easily see he was still having trouble with his footwork/rhythm/timing as he dropped back... We're talking about week 7 here. Then the next week against the Titans, the first time he took a snap from the gun, you can see how uncomfortable he is, and how off his timing is, and through every game of the year, it takes him at least three Qtrs before he gets his rhythm, before he can "settle down"", and that's only if we have a lead.

IF David's going to be on this team..... & if David is going to start... then that's fine, but don't say that we are trying to win, and that winning will put butts in the seats.

If David is our starting QB(& I know you didn't say that David will start), but if David is our starting QB, then winning is not the Texans highest priority.
Click to expand...

How can you say that, when truthfully there is really no player out there or will be out there that is a significant upgrade over him & justifies us taking the cap hit for DC we would have to take to get rid of him? Sounds like you want change just for the sake of change, & that's not always the best policy.

DC is most likely done here in houston, but Plummer/garcia are really not that much better than he is at this point in their careers. If we draft a young guy were most likely looking at about a 2 -year waiting period before we see results, so we would be pretty much in the same boat as far as the losing & an inept passing offense goes.
 
Mr teX said:
How can you say that, when truthfully there is really no player out there or will be out there that is a significant upgrade over him & justifies us taking the cap hit for DC we would have to take to get rid of him? Sounds like you want change just for the sake of change, & that's not always the best policy.

DC is most likely done here in houston, but Plummer/garcia are really not that much better than he is at this point in their careers. If we draft a young guy were most likely looking at about a 2 -year waiting period before we see results, so we would be pretty much in the same boat as far as the losing & an inept passing offense goes.
Click to expand...

It's no longer about trying to get a "significantly" better player....

It's about making a "significant" difference with the team...


Carr not starting for this team in '07 would be "significant" regardless of who the starter is. If we just get someone who is a little better than Carr, it will have a "significant" affect on the fans and players. And IMO, that "significant" difference will be a positive one.
 
If this all is true, I'm happy for Carr and hope he can put a consistent season like the one we saw flashes of in years 3 and 5. I'll get behind whoever is taking the snaps, and I can defer to the wisdom of experts.

With respect to #8 the player, here are my thoughts. He's tough and accurate. His pocket presence leaves something to be desired. The only thing I'm worried about is that fans won't be mollified by anything less than a playoff win.
 
thunderkyss said:
Not exactly. We save $5million by cutting David... no trade, no renegotiation, just flat out cut him.

He is scheduled to make something like $5.5million this year, it may be $5.75 million. Then $6million next year. Then you add in the $2million prorated bonus that we have to pay him in the next few days I think(It's $4million spread over the next two years.) and his cap hit will be $7.5million(or $7.75million) in '07, and $8million in '08.

If David is not on this team... whether we trade him, or cut him, we don't have to pay him his salary, and it does not go against the cap. We save money to let him go.

If you sign a Jake Plummer, an expected starter, you're going to have to pay him $5million. I'm thinking something like a $6million contract over 3 years, with a salary of $3million in '07, $4 million in 08, and $6million in 09. His '07 cap hit would be $5million(basically the same money you'd have paid David), his cap hit in '08 will be $6million(again, this is money we already had alotted for a QB, it's the same as David's salary would have been, had we kept him), and h is hit in '09 would be $8 million.

Now, if you think we are spending more money, or taking a bigger cap hit than we would if we kept David, we're not. in '07, our Cap hit for the QB position will be $7.5(or $7.75) million dollars. With Jake, (and my numbers) it will be $7million, we still save $0.5million, or $0.75million to sign Plummer.

In '08, our cap hit with David would be $8 million with Plummer, it will be $8million.

In '09, we don't know what our cap hit will be for the QB position. David's contract doesn't go out that far, and IF we signed Plummer to my deal, it would be $8million, the same as it was for '08. But we might have to throw in a $4 million roster bonus to get Jake to agree, that would make it a $22 million contract, but only $6 million guaranteed. For Jake, I wouldn't go over $6 million guaranteed(well, I wouldn't even go there, but if the Texans do something like that, I wouldn't be too upset.)

THat would be a pretty lucrative contract..... $22million over 3 years.... but only $6 million Guaranteed.

But the bottom line, we save money if David is not a Texan in '07.
Click to expand...


You have a fair point, however, if we keep David this year and he improves then we're in good shape. If he doesn't and we cut him next year, the cap hit is only $3million instead of almost $6 million and it will likely be a better crop of QBs available: for instance Schaub will be an UFA. Also, theoretically, it will be the second year of a developmental QB like Kolb- who will cost much less than Plummer- who, by the way, is near the end of his career.
 
dalemurphy said:
On the bright side, Kubes and Smith know that if they keep Carr the pass protection is going to have to be much, much better. Perhaps next week we'll see some real money spent to sure it up, maybe Pettigout or Steinbach, in addition to at least one first day pick. After all, keeping Carr gives us another 5 million to work with under the cap. Say what you want about Carr but we still don't know how well he'd function under a good offensive line. Maybe we find out this year!
Click to expand...

On that part I think you forgot the :sarcasm: part...Carr is suppose to make 7 million next season????? How is that going to make room for cap space.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
It's no longer about trying to get a "significantly" better player....

It's about making a "significant" difference with the team...


Carr not starting for this team in '07 would be "significant" regardless of who the starter is. If we just get someone who is a little better than Carr, it will have a "significant" affect on the fans and players. And IMO, that "significant" difference will be a positive one.
Click to expand...



That's your opinion & i can respect that, but IMO, unless the person who replaces him is significantly better then this team is pretty much in the same boat. & if were just looking for someone who's only marginally better, then those types of Qb's are available or will be, all over the place, Harrington, Bledsoe, soon to be Kitna etc.
 
Mr teX said:
That's your opinion & i can respect that, but IMO, unless the person who replaces him is significantly better then this team is pretty much in the same boat. & if were just looking for someone who's only marginally better, then those types of Qb's are available or will be, all over the place, Harrington, Bledsoe, soon to be Kitna etc.
Click to expand...

Do you think Garcia is SIGNIFICANTLY better than McNabb ?

Is Garrad SIGNIFICANTLY better than Leftwhich ?

Is Romo SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bledsoe ?

Is Damon Huard SIGNIFICANTLY better than Trent Green ?



It's not about the significant differences in players. It's the little differnces between players that have SIGNIFICANT effects on teams.

Those games "we could have won", we "might have won" had there been a LITTLE more to go right.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Do you think Garcia is SIGNIFICANTLY better than McNabb ?

Is Garrad SIGNIFICANTLY better than Leftwhich ?

Is Romo SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bledsoe ?

Is Damon Huard SIGNIFICANTLY better than Trent Green ?



It's not about the significant differences in players. It's the little differnces between players that have SIGNIFICANT effects on teams.

Those games "we could have won", we "might have won" had there been a LITTLE more to go right.
Click to expand...


Is Garcia better than McNabb? No, and apparently the Eagles agree since they are going to let him walk (probably to Denver btw which if it happens means they like him more than Plummer)

Is Garrad better than Leftwich? No, and apparently the Jags agree because they recently (within the last week I think) stated that Leftwich was their starter.

Is Romo better than Bledsoe? Unclear at this point due to the lack of games to evaluate but on paper it would appear so.

Is Huard better than Green? No, and the chiefs apparently agree with that as well.
 
humbleone said:
Is Garcia better than McNabb? No, and apparently the Eagles agree since they are going to let him walk (probably to Denver btw which if it happens means they like him more than Plummer)

Is Garrad better than Leftwich? No, and apparently the Jags agree because they recently (within the last week I think) stated that Leftwich was their starter.

Is Romo better than Bledsoe? Unclear at this point due to the lack of games to evaluate but on paper it would appear so.

Is Huard better than Green? No, and the chiefs apparently agree with that as well.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You pretty much proved my point.
 
Mr teX said:
How can you say that, when truthfully there is really no player out there or will be out there that is a significant upgrade over him & justifies us taking the cap hit for DC we would have to take to get rid of him? Sounds like you want change just for the sake of change, & that's not always the best policy.

DC is most likely done here in houston, but Plummer/garcia are really not that much better than he is at this point in their careers. If we draft a young guy were most likely looking at about a 2 -year waiting period before we see results, so we would be pretty much in the same boat as far as the losing & an inept passing offense goes.
Click to expand...

How can you say that?? When we saw 4 rookies who looked more ready for the NFL than David Carr. Vince, Matt, Cutler, & GradKowski...... not to mention old man Huard who hadn't thrown a football in this league in over 5 years, and Romo who hadn't thrown a football in the NFL for the three years he was in the league.

& we wouldn't be stressing ourselves financially at all to dump David now. It actually makes as much sense to dump him now, as it did last year. last year saying goodbye to David would have cost us nothing, and we would have saved $13 million. This year, we save $5.5(or $5.75 million to let him walk).

I'll repeat that, because some people just aren't getting it.

We save $5million towards the cap if we let David Walk.

We'll take a $7million+ hit if David stays........ a $2million hit if he walks.

& I don't want to here that two year crap anymore. Let David go, keep him, it doesn't matter, we are still 2 years away, maybe more if he stays.
 
Mr teX said:
How can you say that, when truthfully there is really no player out there or will be out there that is a significant upgrade over him & justifies us taking the cap hit for DC we would have to take to get rid of him? Sounds like you want change just for the sake of change, & that's not always the best policy.

DC is most likely done here in houston, but Plummer/garcia are really not that much better than he is at this point in their careers. If we draft a young guy were most likely looking at about a 2 -year waiting period before we see results, so we would be pretty much in the same boat as far as the losing & an inept passing offense goes.
Click to expand...

dude, you arent even a real fan. you are more concerned about the cowboys losing than Texans football obviously. just another ignorant houstonian with a inferiority complex towards Dallas....what a tool

as for your take on DC, if you still think DC is a good QB you either dont watch the Texans games or you are just an ignorant fan with no idea on what it takes both on and off the field to be a successful starting QB.

but whatever, keep your little pinup boy DC. it will get you another year of uninspired losing football.....

DC sucks and always has. he has never shown anything other than the ability to cash an unearned paycheck.

screw all DC homers
 
dalemurphy said:
You have a fair point, however, if we keep David this year and he improves then we're in good shape. If he doesn't and we cut him next year, the cap hit is only $3million instead of almost $6 million and it will likely be a better crop of QBs available: for instance Schaub will be an UFA. Also, theoretically, it will be the second year of a developmental QB like Kolb- who will cost much less than Plummer- who, by the way, is near the end of his career.
Click to expand...

So you're saying take a $7 million cap hit to see if David improves. if he doesn't(and I've got 2.5 years of data, game film, etc... whatever to point to the unlikelyhood of that) we cut him... the cap hit in '08 would still be $2million(from David's signing bonus) plus what ever you pay your new QB...

The $6 million doesn't get counted against the cap, unless we pay it out to someone. If we cut David, it doesn't count.

Unless I'm mistaken about where you are getting your $6 million cap hit from.
 
SamuraiSword said:
On that part I think you forgot the :sarcasm: part...Carr is suppose to make 7 million next season????? How is that going to make room for cap space.
Click to expand...
It comes down to bonus $$. When you CUT a player, you accelerate that bonus $$ to hit the cap THAT year, rather than it's original pro-rated (over the length of the contract) amount.
 
Mr teX said:
That's your opinion & i can respect that, but IMO, unless the person who replaces him is significantly better then this team is pretty much in the same boat. & if were just looking for someone who's only marginally better, then those types of Qb's are available or will be, all over the place, Harrington, Bledsoe, soon to be Kitna etc.
Click to expand...

The player would be a significant improvement, if we aren't spending practice time talking about how to drop back. If we aren't wasting practice time to get him "comfortable" in the gun. If we aren't simplifying our playbook trying to get our QB to "settle down" through the first three Qtrs of a real game that counts.

b'sides, I'm sure Kitna earned himself a starting job.
 
disaacks3 said:
It comes down to bonus $$. When you CUT a player, you accelerate that bonus $$ to hit the cap THAT year, rather than it's original pro-rated (over the length of the contract) amount.
Click to expand...

If David stays, we pay him a $4 million bonus, plus his $5million+salary. the Bonus is pro-rated over the next 2 years to $2 million a year, David's '07 cap number is $7million+

If we cut David before June 1st, the bonus is accelerated, and we have $4million of dead money against our cap. We save $3million+ to let him walk.

If we cut David after June 1st, or simply designate him & one other player as a June 1st cut, the Bonus isn't prorated. $2million will go against our '07 cap, and $2million will go against our '08 cap.

There is no scenario(that I can think of) that would save us money by keeping David on our roster in '07.
 
thunderkyss said:
If David stays, we pay him a $4 million bonus, plus his $5million+salary. the Bonus is pro-rated over the next 2 years to $2 million a year, David's '07 cap number is $7million+

If we cut David before June 1st, the bonus is accelerated, and we have $4million of dead money against our cap. We save $3million+ to let him walk.

If we cut David after June 1st, or simply designate him & one other player as a June 1st cut, the Bonus isn't prorated. $2million will go against our '07 cap, and $2million will go against our '08 cap.

There is no scenario(that I can think of) that would save us money by keeping David on our roster in '07.
Click to expand...

I assume you mean not counting the cost to replace him.
 
Vinny said:
It means that 2002 wasn't the year to take a franchise QB.
Click to expand...

D'oh!

Hey, our guy still has poooootential and all that jazz. We just need another couple of years to evaluate + Pro Bowl offensive line + HoF running back + two more playmakers...and hey, we might have a decent offense if/when it all works out. :ok:
 
Double Barrel said:
D'oh!

Hey, our guy still has poooootential and all that jazz. We just need another couple of years to evaluate + Pro Bowl offensive line + HoF running back + two more playmakers...and hey, we might have a decent offense if/when it all works out. :ok:
Click to expand...
They are really not that far apart on the stat sheet. Carr has 32 more attempts but Harrington has more 14 more TD's (about a year's worth more TD's - 14 or so is the production for Carr anyway) and completed 4-5% less passes overall.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302199

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306268
 
thunderkyss said:
How can you say that?? When we saw 4 rookies who looked more ready for the NFL than David Carr. Vince, Matt, Cutler, & GradKowski...... not to mention old man Huard who hadn't thrown a football in this league in over 5 years, and Romo who hadn't thrown a football in the NFL for the three years he was in the league.

& we wouldn't be stressing ourselves financially at all to dump David now. It actually makes as much sense to dump him now, as it did last year. last year saying goodbye to David would have cost us nothing, and we would have saved $13 million. This year, we save $5.5(or $5.75 million to let him walk).

I'll repeat that, because some people just aren't getting it.

We save $5million towards the cap if we let David Walk.

We'll take a $7million+ hit if David stays........ a $2million hit if he walks.

& I don't want to here that two year crap anymore. Let David go, keep him, it doesn't matter, we are still 2 years away, maybe more if he stays.
Click to expand...

Actually all four were worse than Carr, although VY won more due to the team around him-VY wins another game with 2int's for a TD, 1 punt rtn for TD, and a field goal, let's when has Carr ever gotten that kind of back up. VY % was terrible, & the Broncos had a winning season until Cutler came in, that and the defense lost steam and fell out of being the best D in the NFL.
This is a team sport, and NO your QB can not do it alone. The only reason to replace Carr is to get uninformed fans a reason to wait two more years with a losing team. IF Carr stays, that will but us time to develope a QB, which is Kubiaks strong suit. or at least so everyone says.
 
srstex said:
Actually all four were worse than Carr, although VY won more due to the team around him
Click to expand...
The Titans were 9-23 the previous two years before Young took over....the only thing that changed on that team was Young. In case you missed it they were one win from the playoffs......and before Young took over they were winless.
 
Here's one for ya - compare "Quarterback X" and David Carr after 5 years:

(See if you can guess who QB X is. Answer at bottom)

Stat = QB X (David Carr)

Team record = 23-46-1 (24-56)
TD/INT = 43/76 (59/65)
Passing yards = 8519 (13, 391)
Completion % = 50% (60%)
QB rating = 56.6 (75.5)
Sacks = 134 (249)
Fumbles = 37 (66)


















Got it ? Luv Ya Blue was still a few years away for Dan Pastorini (1971-1975). Pastorini's 5th year (1975) bought him more time as the team went 10-4. Without that year, his 5 year team record would have been atrocious...
 
Arky said:
Got it ? Luv Ya Blue was still a few years away for Dan Pastorini (1971-1975). Pastorini's 5th year (1975) bought him more time as the team went 10-4. Without that year, his 5 year team record would have been atrocious...
Click to expand...
It's just about impossible to compare qb's in different eras. The game was different, the defenses were allowed to manhandle wr's on every play and at any place on the field....the completion %'s were generally lower as most teams were more vertical then. Heck, hall of famer Joe Namith rarely threw for 50% ever.
 
Vinny said:
The Titans were 9-23 the previous two years before Young took over....the only thing that changed on that team was Young. In case you missed it they were one win from the playoffs......and before Young took over they were winless.
Click to expand...

I was going to let it go but I can't.

Young was still winless after the first start.

His second start.

Travis Henry had more rushing yards than Youngs passing yarrds and just as many rushing Touch Downs as Young had passing Touch Downs in his third start against Washington.

David Carr won it for the Titans in the first meeting

The Titan D beat the Jags with Young's outstanding 85 yards for the game.

I can see where it was all Young though.

Well worth Rookie of the Year.

I have already heard the "It" speech, give me something new.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Do you think Garcia is SIGNIFICANTLY better than McNabb ?

Is Garrad SIGNIFICANTLY better than Leftwhich ?

Is Romo SIGNIFICANTLY better than Bledsoe ?

Is Damon Huard SIGNIFICANTLY better than Trent Green ?



It's not about the significant differences in players. It's the little differnces between players that have SIGNIFICANT effects on teams.

Those games "we could have won", we "might have won" had there been a LITTLE more to go right.
Click to expand...



So you're basically saying that every game we could have won, we lost b/c of DC? Check that, I know that's not what you're saying, but come on man. The league is full of shoulda coulda woulda. & all the guys you mentioned above are being compared to probowlers with the exception of Leftwitch so that's pretty much invalid. Hell Romo sat for what 3 years before he got his shot? Those guys are/were backups for a reason so who's to say that they get here & stink it up on our obviously talent-inferior team (jeff Garcia in Cleveland/ Detroit?)

What i'm getting at is that we are far from a plug & play team & most guys that will be available for us to get via free agency are out there for a reason which for the most, that means that the teams they were on previously think that they aren't worth keeping around. Let DC stay here & continue to take the beating while Kubes acquires/drafts & develops a young QB for the LONG TERM. That way, it saves us from taking any kind of cap hit at all & if need be, Sage can fill in for the interim if DC gets hurt. That fact of the matter is, were a few years away from competing regardless if we get rid of him or keep him.

In a few years DC will be making his rounds with all of them as a quality back up anyway so just stand pat, unless someone offers us a deal we can't refuse for him.
 
Vinny said:
It means that 2002 wasn't the year to take a franchise QB.
Click to expand...

Scary, but Carr really was the best QB available out of this bunch.

1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State
1 3 Joey Harrington QB Oregon
1 32 Patrick Ramsey QB Tulane
3 81 Josh McCown QB Sam Houston State
4 108 David Garrard QB East Carolina
4 117 Rohan Davey QB Louisiana State
5 137 Randy Fasani QB Stanford
5 158 Kurt Kittner QB Illinois
5 163 Brandon Doman QB Brigham Young
5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State, La.
6 186 J.T. O'Sullivan QB Cal-Davis
7 216 Seth Burford QB Cal Poly-SLO
7 232 Jeff Kelly QB Southern Mississippi
7 236 Wes Pate QB Stephen F. Austin
Click to expand...
 
TEXANRED said:
I was going to let it go but I can't.

Young was still winless after the first start.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but he beat Manning his second time...took Carr 5 years. Amazing all you Carr supporters say that we should give Carr half a decade to prove himself but Rookie of the year Vince Young sucks....you guys are credible as hell.
 
Vinny said:
It's just about impossible to compare qb's in different eras. The game was different, the defenses were allowed to manhandle wr's on every play and at any place on the field....the completion %'s were generally lower as most teams were more vertical then. Heck, hall of famer Joe Namith rarely threw for 50% ever.
Click to expand...

The point was perceived suckage is for all eras.

The Oilers never gave up on Pastorini and I can't imagine Luv Ya Blue without him. Who's to say Carr can't do this with a killer O-line and a playmaker running back (Earl). All of a sudden his passing game gets a whole better....
 
Vinny said:
Yeah, but he beat Manning his second time...took Carr 5 years. Amazing all you Carr supporters say that we should give Carr half a decade to prove himself but Rookie of the year Vince Young sucks....you guys are credible as hell.
Click to expand...

Now don't take it personal. I never once said Carr.

IMO Colston deserved OROY. A seventh round pick who had half of VY's passing yards and half as many TD's by a guy who doesn't touch the ball 100% of the time.

Your a fan of Young the same way a lot of us were fans of Carr in the very begining.

The "It" factor will wear off once his team gets tired of hoisting him up on there shoulders.
 
Mr teX said:
were a few years away from competing regardless if we get rid of him or keep him.
Click to expand...

I am tired of hearing people say this. We are not a few years away. We are a few players away. If we would have had better QB play last year would would have probably gone .500. Stop saying we are a few years away. We are going to be far away from competing as long as David Carr is playing QB for us.

Arky said:
Who's to say Carr can't do this with a killer O-line and a playmaker running back (Earl).
Click to expand...

He does when he plays and shows his inability to score.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I am tired of hearing people say this. We are not a few years away. We are a few players away. If we would have had better QB play last year would would have probably gone .500. Stop saying we are a few years away. We are going to be far away from competing as long as David Carr is playing QB for us.
Click to expand...

a few if you mean:
RB
WR
OL
DL
OLB
CB
SS
FS
 
Vinny said:
Yeah, but he beat Manning his second time...took Carr 5 years. Amazing all you Carr supporters say that we should give Carr half a decade to prove himself but Rookie of the year Vince Young sucks....you guys are credible as hell.
Click to expand...

Nobody's saying VY sucks, at least i'm not, but you guys give him waayyy too much credit for the teams' success just b/c they started winning when he started playing more.

That same argument works for any rookie who contributed fairly well on any winning team. (RB/addai/Mcneil) but no one is stupid enough to argue that addai is the reason the colts won the superbowl, or that marcus mcneil is the reason that the Chargers went 14-2 are they? I hope not.
 
kbourda said:
No offense but with that group of HOF'ers that's nothing to hang your proverbial hat on.
Click to expand...

A more serious point is that you really not only need understand who is the best player within a class, but also how that player compares to the league in general. This is essentially why teams don't merely get to a point in a draft a go, ______ is the best at his position left and I need that position, so I am going to draft ______.
 
TEXANRED said:
a few if you mean:
RB
WR
OL
DL
OLB
CB
SS
FS
Click to expand...

No...your talking about the players we need to have completly filled our holes. I am sayin until we are at about .500 aka competing. Not filling every hole we have. It's easy to say we are years away we have holes here and here and here. Our team is not terrible...but we will look terrible when our QB fumbles more than he throws touchdowns.

Edit: Every team has holes. Even the Colts.
 
srstex said:
Actually all four were worse than Carr, although VY won more due to the team around him-VY wins another game with 2int's for a TD, 1 punt rtn for TD, and a field goal, let's when has Carr ever gotten that kind of back up. VY % was terrible, & the Broncos had a winning season until Cutler came in, that and the defense lost steam and fell out of being the best D in the NFL.
This is a team sport, and NO your QB can not do it alone. The only reason to replace Carr is to get uninformed fans a reason to wait two more years with a losing team. IF Carr stays, that will but us time to develope a QB, which is Kubiaks strong suit. or at least so everyone says.
Click to expand...

personally, I don't have a problem with David coming back to the Texans. I just don't think he is ready to start... the four guys I mentioned, regardless of their W/L record are more ready to start than David Carr.

Watch them play the game... Look for consistency in their drop backs, their ability to go through a progression, their ability to decide to throw the ball(without having to lock onto a receiver & wait until he is facing you), their ability to avoid a sack, and move away from the pressure. See how many times they throw the ball after they've been sacked. See how they take snaps from under center or from the gun. Their ability to call audibles, their ability to run a hurry up offense, and a 2 minute drill, etc...

Look, there was a time when we talked about how bad Alex Smith & J.P. Losman were compared to our QB. But right now, both of their careers are on an upswing, while ours is flat.

& they've got the same talent level around them that David has had. I admit that Frank Gore has produced more than any RB David has ever played with, But aside from that, we're pretty even.

Losman & Smith have thrown for more TDs, & more yards than David. That's what QBs are supposed to do, throw TDs, and move the ball. Sure, David has a higher completion percentage, and less INTs, but neither of those give you wins like yards & TDs. By the way, Losman was sacked 47 times, Smith 35 times, David 41 times.


David Carr 16games 172 ypg 11 Tds 12 INts 41 sacks

Lienart 12games 212 ypg 11TDs, 12 INTs 21 sacks
Gradkowski 13games 127 ypg 9 TDs 9 INts 25 sacks
Young 15 games 146 ypg 12 TDs 13 INts 25 sacks
Cutler 5 games 200 ypg 9 TDs 5 Ints 13 sacks

all rookies... well, except one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top