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According to Justice, Troy Aikman May Help Carr This Summer

aj. said:
The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'
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So true. As I said on another page I had heard this stuff last year and was told by the guys on 610 that it bothered the coaches and Both McClain and Justice have now brought it up recently. McClain did 2 weeks ago when he talked about the Kubiak hiring on how Carr had to make the decision to spend night and day with the guy watching film and working extra. First, I have nothing personally against Carr, just not sold on him. Secondly I don't want to draft VY so there that goes. My main concern has always been why pay a guy franchise QB salary when you have so many holes to fill and there are these questions about his work ethic and his development over the last 4 years?It is a team and money game to me.
 
TreWardTxn said:
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...
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This would be an insult to Drew Bledsoe and Bill Parcells. This has less chance of happening than Troy coming to mentor Carr.
 
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?
 
TreWardTxn said:
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...
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Oh, my. So Troy Aikman, man-with-three-Super-Bowl-rings-Hall-of-Fame-QB-god, could only tell David Carr the same stuff as anyone on this board?

From reading your post again, I just realized that maybe you are a little slanted against the Cowboys.....could that be a little true?:)
 
TEXANRED said:
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?
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Just so I understand how you feel about Carr let me ask you a question. David Carr needs no development work in any facet of his game?
 
kbourda said:
What is so *****ic about it? I happen to agree with this statement. Not weak at all. Very powerful, if you ask me. The only thing I don't agree with Porky on what he was saying about Carr placing his job before his family. I'll never fault a man for a decision like that. I think it's possible for a family man to be a great QB. I think the bottom line is you have it or you don't.
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Just because you agree doesn't make it any more legitimate. Quincy Carter had a lot of leesh and he wasn't even a part of an expansion team, and don't even get me started on Kordell Stewart. Porky's basis of putting color into all of this very *****ic.
 
I was wandering does Carr get sacked at practice too.Or is our Dline so inefficient he has a false sense of security on Sunday.I'm sure he can do more on his work ethic and fundementals,But my VY,give the guy a decent line and a RB that can pickup a blitz,and 4.5 seconds in the pocket and lets see what happens.
 
107 posts so far on Justice's flip choice of words "attempt to explain the role of a QB." Brilliant--NOT.

If anything involving Aikman ever happened at all, the odds of that being the stated purpose by anyone is exactly 0. Jeez, talk about stupid overanalysis.
 
aj. said:
Why would John Clayton, for example, have first hand knowledge of something that local members of the media (who are at the practice facility up to five times a week) wouldn't? The local guys know more than you think - because of their proximity to the players and what they hear 'off the record' - but in a one horse town do they have anything to gain from throwing someone under the bus? What, is Justice going to tell McClain "ha ha, I beat you to that "Carr is not a leader" story, John!" Texans coverage is one reason I wish we had more than one paper in town. The other reason is more political.

The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'
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If Clayton and the rest of the "insiders" are so good at catching the "Carr's dad ordered off the field" and "Riley gets in a fight" then why did we not get the scoop on Earl when it happend? Please give me a name where someone said Carr was not a good leader.
 
TEXANRED said:
My head hurts and my eyes are bleeding. Now we are gonna say Carr has 0 work ethic. Oh-my-Lord. I guess the old arguments are getting stale.

Carr is not an efficiant QB: Answer: Bad line, Carr has 0 time. Come back-O.K thats true.
Carr has a low completion rating: Answer: Two words-Corey Bradford. Come back-O right.
Carr is not a leader: Answer: Why cause he doesnt call his team out in front of the media? Come back-yep.:ok:
Carr would rather take a sack than turn the ball over to the opposing team so they can score on our P-thetic D. Come back: This is bad how?

Now we are going to take the word of a Houston Post, Hardy Boy reject that he leaves practice early? I hate Justice.

Remember when we had two news papers and the writting was pretty good b/c there was competion between the two? Anybody else miss that?
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I'm not sure who this was geared to but my post up above said there are questions on his work ethic..not no work ethic. Just because you don't like the writings of Justice and other writers doesn't mean they still don't hear more than us considering it is their job. When I get an e-mail back from the morning guys at 610 confirming the questions that I heard last year...that Carr's lack of film time and not staying after practice irked the coaches and this same sentiment is repeated by two beat writers, then I'm going to start to think where there is smoke there is fire.

1) Bad line. Right but what about the sacks that are attributed to his inability to step up in the pocket, read defenses or throw the ball away...or how he locks onto one receiver?

2) Two words--Dirt and inaccurate

3) Leader--Ask his teammates

4) Fetal position at the first sign of pressure.

Again, not saying he is bad guy. This is an exercise to see if the franchise should pay franchise money for a guy that may be scarred and who may just be a middle of the road QB. Those are my concerns..not if he is a family man, etc.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Just so I understand how you feel about Carr let me ask you a question. David Carr needs no development work in any facet of his game?
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Yes, he needs work on his game. I never ever said he was perfect. He runs out of bounds with the ball, he throws to hard in short passes and at times holds onto the ball to long and gets sacked. He has things to work on that a good QB coach will be able to fix in the off season. Nothing major. Its not like he cant read. There is much more of an up side to Carr then there are down.

My problem is the Vince supporters (Justice being the Grand PooBa) are starting to grasp at straws and make things up. Like Carr is the last to practice and the first to leave. I personally need conformation on something like that. Does that sound like Dom Capers? He may have been a dumpy Head Coach but he ruled his team with an Iron fist. He suspended Peek and Coleman(2x) for being late to a meeting. Do you really think that he would let his QB come late and leave early? Come on, lets use a little reasoning.

Maybe we can catch a small break. Justice will say something like "If the Texans dont draft Vince Young I will quit writting for the Chronicle and start writting for whatever team he plays for." Or "If the Texans take Bush I am turning in my pen and paper and moving out of this city." Please please O please let him say that.
 
HoustonFrog said:
When I get an e-mail back from the morning guys at 610 confirming the questions that I heard last year...that Carr's lack of film time and not staying after practice irked the coaches and this same sentiment is repeated by two beat writers, then I'm going to start to think where there is smoke there is fire.
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Yeah, could be--or maybe some little Frog is sitting under a tree rubbing sticks together looking for smoke. Here is your original description of what the guys at 610 said:

HoustonFrog said:
As for the work after practice. The response I received was, "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though."
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So maybe, MAYBE some coaches did is the same as an affirmative report the coaches were irked?--wow, not even close. No spin going on there.
 
TEXANRED said:
Yes, he needs work on his game. I never ever said he was perfect. He runs out of bounds with the ball, he throws to hard in short passes and at times holds onto the ball to long and gets sacked. He has things to work on that a good QB coach will be able to fix in the off season. Nothing major. Its not like he cant read. There is much more of an up side to Carr then there are down.

My problem is the Vince supporters
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Fair enough, can't argue with the take.
 
infantrycak said:
Yeah, could be--or maybe some little Frog is sitting under a tree rubbing sticks together looking for smoke. Here is your original description of what the guys at 610 said:



So maybe, MAYBE some coaches did is the same as an affirmative report the coaches were irked?--wow, not even close. No spin going on there.
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I don't think that is spin at all. What does "While David's work after practice has been questioned" mean then? Add this to the same article Zerline wrote that week making direct comments about Carr's film sessions. Then the McClain article saying he needs to start putting in full time with Kubiak, and then this and I don't think I am making it up. Listen, super moderator or not, it doesn't mean you are the Grand Poobah of knowing it all. Fine by me if you want to put on your little red and blue blinders and act like he is the greatest thing since your first lay but I'm just trying to figure out if we need to spend franchise money on an average QB so far. Isn't that something that should be looked at?By the way, wouldn't MAYBE and you saying "NOT EVEN CLOSE" be about the same exaggeration as you are accusing me of?Give me a break dude. Number of posts doesn't mean smarts on this board. I appreciate and like many of the things that you say but this is an unneccessary attack because people act like they know it all about their overpaid golden boy. I'm tired of having to look over my shoulder if I have an opinion on Carr. Especially since I'm not a person who wants to draft VY.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I don't think that is spin at all.
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Your right--spin was the wrong word. It is flat out misrepresentation. Once again since this didn't seem to clue into you the 1st time you misrepresented what was said on 610 am--have any opinion you want about Carr or anything else, but misrepresent things and you may very well get corrected. So this is plain:

HoustonFrog "I think Carr needs to work harder" or "Carr doesn't work hard enough IMO" hunky dory fine--any opinion you want

HoustonFrog "I have an e-mail saying the coaches are irked with Carr for not working harder"--total BS and misrepresenting things to the MB--not cool.

I'm tired of having to look over my shoulder if I have an opinion on Carr.
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You don't have to look over your shoulder for having an opinion, you have to look over your shoulder for stating falsehoods. Carr may not work hard enough. Maybe the former coaches were irked at him. The fact is though that you have not received an e-mail saying those things are true and shouldn't represent to the MB that you have.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Fine by me if you want to put on your little red and blue blinders and act like he is the greatest thing since your first lay
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terrible analogy ..... who among us would say that their ..... nevermind
 
infantrycak said:
Your right--spin was the wrong word. It is flat out misrepresentation. Once again since this didn't seem to clue into you the 1st time you misrepresented what was said on 610 am--have any opinion you want about Carr or anything else, but misrepresent things and you may very well get corrected. So this is plain:

HoustonFrog "I think Carr needs to work harder" or "Carr doesn't work hard enough IMO" hunky dory fine--any opinion you want

HoustonFrog "I have an e-mail saying the coaches are irked with Carr for not working harder"--total BS and misrepresenting things to the MB--not cool.



You don't have to look over your shoulder for having an opinion, you have to look over your shoulder for stating falsehoods.
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Again, how is my statement any different than yours?It can be analyzed anyway you like it. They said : "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." 1) His work has been questioned. This means by SOMEONE. Then they say it is not his teammates but "maybe his coaches did though." Sorry but adding that after the teammates comments led me to infer that the coaches had some problems. You telling me just the opposite and saying I am a liar and it is a falsehood is just as wide ranging as my inference. So who are you to talk?I took what they said as that there was a problem and the people who had the problem with Carr were coaches and not players. Considering that this was a quote from Lance Z's article the same week concerning VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth)..i can put two and two together. Add that to the articles by McClain and Justice and I'll put my inference against you calling it a falsehood anyday. Again, my main concern is money spent on the guy not if I like him or not. My bad for stating an opinion again, knowing that no matter how gentle I was, I'd get attacked by Carr's Flying Monkeys from the Wizard of Oz.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Again, how is my statement any different than yours?It can be analyzed anyway you like it. They said : "While David's work after practice has been questioned, I've never personally heard anything from any of his teammates that they have a problem with it. Maybe some coaches did though." 1) His work has been questioned. This means by SOMEONE. Then they say it is not his teammates but "maybe his coaches did though." Sorry but adding that after the teammates comments led me to infer that the coaches had some problems. You telling me just the opposite and saying I am a liar and it is a falsehood is just as wide ranging as my inference. So who are you to talk?You do this with every poster. I took what they said is thwere was a problem and the people who had the problem with Carr were coaches and not players. Considering that this was a quote from Lance Z's article the same week concerning VY, "In other words, he won't go home to watch film, he'll actually stay up at the facility and watch with his coaches (paging Mr. Carr... please report to the courtesy booth)..i can put two and two together. Add that to the articles by McClain and Justice and I'll put my inference against you calling it a falsehood anyday.
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wow is it getting hot in here or what? Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?
 
chuckm said:
Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?
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Thank you. Fan, radio caller (since all of those have such high football IQ's), MB poster.
 
chuckm said:
wow is it getting hot in here or what? Is there any chance that the aforementioned "SOMEONE" is a poster (not meaning you specifically) on a message board? or anyone other than a coach?
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You may be dead right. I took it as the coaches. I don't think I should be attacked for the inference. 99% of the stuff we duscuss here is rumor, speculation, inferences and how you judge statements from coaches and GMs, etc. Considering that I am trying to give some level of inside knowledge to the people who cover them and this was the original report I heard...before attacked then..then I am taking the statement as that. Call me naive but I have a hard time believing 4 sports personalities have a grand conspiracy on Carr.
 
HoustonFrog said:
You may be dead right. I took it as the coaches. I don't think I should be attacked for the inference.
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Look, as I said above and the 1st time this happened--have any opinion you want, make any inference you want, but identify it as such and don't represent to people that the facts are different from what they actually are. Present the info clean so others can make their judgments.
 
infantrycak said:
Look, as I said above and the 1st time this happened--have any opinion you want, make any inference you want, but identify it as such and don't represent to people that the facts are different from what they actually are. Present the info clean so others can make their judgments.
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yea he's right .... and normally (normal being something we remember longingly from about 6 weeks ago) this isn't such a big issue ... but right now just about everyone is aligning themselves with some draft strategy faction and waiting on someone else to look at them funny ....
 
SESupergenius said:
Just because you agree doesn't make it any more legitimate. Quincy Carter had a lot of leesh and he wasn't even a part of an expansion team, and don't even get me started on Kordell Stewart. Porky's basis of putting color into all of this very *****ic.
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If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.
 
Vinny said:
Let's leave out the personal attacks folks.
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Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain .... wasn't a cheap shot at you Frog ..... was just something I noticed while typing ... welcome to the board ... on a related note, your boss just called ... you're fired
 
chuckm said:
Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain
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I just happened to be here at this point in time. I didn't even bring up your name.

It's no biggie...but lets try to hammer the opinion instead of insult the poster please.
 
chuckm said:
terrible analogy ..... who among us would say that their ..... nevermind
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:heh:

Good one Chuck M.

BTW, if Mr. Aikman explains how to be a QB like he explains the difficult concept of chicken wings like in those horrendous Wing Stop Commercials, the Texans are SO BONED.
 
Vinny said:
I just happened to be here at this point in time. I didn't even bring up your name.

It's no biggie...but lets try to hammer the opinion instead of insult the poster please.
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I'm sure I've done it at some point, but what I typed then was not an insult .... I suppose it could have been taken that way because obviously you did .... it wasn't, as I tried to state before everything disappeared .... but alas you have the final say ....
 
Porky said:
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.
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Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.
 
chuckm said:
Ever vigilant Vinny .... fastest mod west of the Mississippi .... deleted my post before I could explain .... wasn't a cheap shot at you Frog ..... was just something I noticed while typing ... welcome to the board ... on a related note, your boss just called ... you're fired
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I probably will be. Just boring around here lately..lol

Sorry if it went overboard Vinny.
 
F-minus67 said:
Well, its good to see that everyone, with the exception of a few posters on this board want Carr to succeed.
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That is really what I see is the problem. Everyone wants the Texans to succeed, but here are many who would like Carr to succeed. Then there are those of us who think of his contract as a detractor to the Texan's success. Carr haters are Texans lovers first (this is a fact that resides in no foundation other than my puny little mind).

Khari how about a Radio Raheem smily with love and hate spelled on both fists?
 
Porky said:
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB.
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So if you don't prefer Young to Carr, you are a closet racist. Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to get back to the quote in Tulip's thread starter:

In fact, Troy Aikman has been asked to spend some time with David this summer to attempt to explain the role of a QB.
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Who has asked Troy Aikman to spend time with Carr? Kubiak has been on the job for what, 12 days? One of the first thoughts Gary had was, "I wonder if Troy is the guy to breakthrough to David?" You know, I just can't see that happening. I've got to believe that Kubiak wants to mentor David himself. In fact, Gary has expressed that desire in numerous interviews since he's taken the job.

I'm not saying Richard Justice has the story wrong (what would be the odds of The Chronic missing on a story?). I'm just saying that whomever setup the Aikman/Carr bonding session probably didn't get Kubiak's blessing. If Troy & David meet up this summer, it will probably involve a round of golf.
 
kbourda said:
Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.
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WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! You give no credit to Young with a statement like this. While I think we need to keep DC, I think Young would easily win over this Houston crowd and he would be defended to the end as Carr's most ardent supporters have defended him. Young has quite a charismatic personality. He won't have a problem getting people supporting him to a fault (as some see with Carr). You already see it on this MB. Young has not even taken a snap in the NFL and he is already on the HOF ballot for some. I personally think he will be very successful in the NFL, but I will never guarantee that. You can not guarantee someone will be a 100% surefire HOF before they even take the field in an NFL game.

Go ahead and continue to make yourself a martyr in your own mind.
 
Lucky said:
So if you don't prefer Young to Carr, you are a closet racist. Thanks for clearing that up.
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:stirpot:

Hey Frog if you thought the reaction to our little exchange was good, just watch this one .....
 
Porky said:
When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)
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That was Bryan Pittman, the long snapper.
 
Porky said:
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB.
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You only know what your standards are, so I am guessing you are the closet racist as Lucky has described? :hmmm:

Why would you say this? In 1976, yes. I don't really believe this is the case today. I know racism has not been eradicated, but this is not the way most people think now from my experiences.
 
infantrycak said:
That was Bryan Pittman, the long snapper.
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yep it was and I may be mistaken but he mentioned Weigert as the offensive leader, so that may be why his name came to mind ...
 
Jack Bauer said:
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! You give no credit to Young with a statement like this. While I think we need to keep DC, I think Young would easily win over this Houston crowd and he would be defended to the end as Carr's most ardent supporters have defended him. Young has quite a charismatic personality. He won't have a problem getting people supporting him to a fault (as some see with Carr). You already see it on this MB. Young has not even taken a snap in the NFL and he is already on the HOF ballot for some. I personally think he will be very successful in the NFL, but I will never guarantee that. You can not guarantee someone will be a 100% surefire HOF before they even take the field in an NFL game.

Go ahead and continue to make yourself a martyr in your own mind.
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No, I give Young a ton of credit based on where he has come from and what he has accomplished is such a short time. The problem I have is when I see people laugh and dismiss the argument that Porky brought up. It is a concern and an ugly truth. And to be honest it makes me mad when I see QB's like Gus Ferotte and Trent Dilfer being recycled around the league to get chance and chance and chance again to prove that they really suck.
 
:challenge Kubiak thinks the QB has to be the man . Kubiak said the team has got to want to bleed for their QB . Anyone think with all the rumors and other events , this is the case ?

Micheal Irvin said he can tell which teams have IT by their actions . Irvin stated that its got to mean more than just catching a pass , thats your boy and you've got to help him . Does this sound like Carr and AJ .

Kubiaks most important job is to make the Texans potiental stars into stars . Carrs got to become a good QB and AJ into an All-Pro .
 
kbourda said:
Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth. I would like to think that if Young, not Carr had been taking this beating for four years, it would be more Young's fault. Though most posters who agree with this will never state so in public or on a MB for that matter. I think VY is being cast in a very different and unfair light. And to put it simply, I feel he's the victim of the stigma placed on "Black QB's". Agree or not, this is what I feel is the case.
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O Jezzy Chreezy. Now we are going to bring race into this. Give me a friggin break. Enough hatred, racism and he said she said cause they are white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple, pocka dotted and stripped, goes on in everyday life. We dont need to bring it here to the MB. If you will sit there and say Vince is being cast in any negative way cause he is a black QB then you would have to agree with Rush on ESPN on how McNabb only gets the spot light and publicity cause he is black. Nothing to do with the athletes physical skills. You cant have it both ways.

How is Vince being cast in an unfair light? He is going thru just as much as any other top rated athlete coming out in the draft. So please dont point your finger at me and say I am a racist just cause I want to keep Carr. Yes at this point I do feel you are saying somthing to me personally b/c I am a hard core Carr supporter. Besides if that were true than people would be screaming for Lienart. Remember him? The best QB in the draft.

I think most of the Carr supporting camp feels that Carr has never been givin a fair shot and has paid his dues. If anything positive is going to happen with this franchise Carr deserves to be apart of that.

Now can we get back to the Anti Justice campaign that I am trying to spearhead?
 
kbourda said:
And to be honest it makes me mad when I see QB's like Gus Ferotte and Trent Dilfer being recycled around the league to get chance and chance and chance again to prove that they really suck.
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obviously you're feeling that a quarterback or quarterbacks of color, shall we say, got bypassed when these guys were "recycled" .... which ones did you have in mind?
 
Porky said:
If you don't think there is a double standard based on color and background, you are sadly mistaken. There is clearly a difference in the fan base reaction between the Golden Boy, and my fictional QB. Heck Warren Moon is now a HOF QB, and he used to take potshots left and right at the first site of a bad pass. I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black. And Moon came from an affluent family, spoke perfect English, and came off very intelligent. Now take my fictional wrong side of the tracks guy who speaks in Ebonics, and comes from a poor background. Don't tell me there wouldn't be a difference between that and the Golden Boy. I remember going to an Oiler game, and I heard the N word shouted more than once. Take off the blinders man.
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I had season tickets for the Oilers when Warren Moon first joined the team and through it all I never once heard any racial slurs. We would not have put up with it. Why is this even being discussed? What could that possibly have to do with Vince Young? Leave the racial profiling out of it. It doesn't apply.
 
Porky said:
I can't tell you how many people said stuff to me directly, or that I heard on call in shows, that mentioned Moon would never be a good QB because he is black.
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I don't know which call-in shows you listened to, but I used to listen to them every night while Moon was with the Oilers and I do not remember a single call on the shows like this. I am not saying this did not happen, but I don't think the racism was as wide-spread as you make it sound. As far as what was being said to you directly, maybe you should hang around different friends.
 
coreyvice said:
I, for one, take great offense to bringing in to question the sexual orientation of people that just don't happen to agree with you. If they say something you don't agree with, then they must have a "man-crush" on VY.

How about this... these are probably straight guys that just don't think that David Carr is worth the money he's getting paid or deserves the status of a #1 draft pick. They also might think that VY would be better for the organization.

David Carr posed in designer duds in a GQ fashion spread while his team was still winless.
Maybe his apologists are the ones with "man-crushes."
"Man-Crush" Street goes both ways.

And it goes to real bad place...I think it's time to shelf it.
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relax!!! it's only an expression...
 
okay everyone. Rub your ears and say woosaw. C'mon......woosaw, woosaw....I hate Richard Justice.......woosaw.......
 
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