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According to Justice, Troy Aikman May Help Carr This Summer

Kaiser Toro said:
I am sure stockholders and possibly Wall Street and the SEC would disagree with that policy. :spy:
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Most of those people don't even think that they have enough money to feed their families. Aparently, 20 mill isn't enough to put your kids through college.

Look, I agree with Wolf. I highly doubt Carr's dad has any influence when he comes to practice. Don't you think if he did, he would have been pushing for o-line help starting, oh I don't know, after YEAR 1!!!!!???
 
bigTEXan8 said:
Look, I agree with Wolf. I highly doubt Carr's dad has any influence when he comes to practice.
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If that was the case, then Carr's father would still be allowed at practices.
 
This I know as fact, Mike Vick works with Steve Young 2 or 3 time a year for the last 3 years. Carr working with Aikman is no big whoop...Fact Kubiak believes in Carr and that David has all the necessary tools to be a winner. Kubiak knows what hes got with David, Vince is a box of Cracker Jacks, you never know what you are going to get. I ask the Vick and Palmer touters, how would they have faired playing for the Texans the past 3 years. I know nothing about Carr's work habits. I do know that I personally worked 12-14 hours a day for a boss I liked and inspired me. I only worked 8 hours a day and not much more for a boss who was a tirant and really didn't know what he was doing. This guy was good at making you frustrated, irritable, angry and a loner at work. You just wanted to go in do your job and get on with it.
 
TEXANS84 said:
If that was the case, then Carr's father would still be allowed at practices.
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Well let me ask you this: was Carr's father running practice? Was he in the video room pointing out the stunts the opponents d-line likes to do and when? Was he putting together the gameplan for the upcoming week? I highly doubt it. If he was, then we should bring Capers & Co. back and give them another chance.
 
More of the same sob song. Do you guys really think a Pro QB bringing his Dad with him to practice endears himself to his teammates, or that it helps engender respect for him, and helps teamwork? Heck, why couldn't Lewis Sander's Dad be at every practice. How about Gary Walker's wife. I'm sure he would have liked that too. The truth is it makes him look like a wussy Daddy's boy. Not exactly someone you want to have as a team leader. It's extremely well known that this organization has coddled him, and that he has a poor work ethic. Keep on making excuses, it just makes for good laughter on on otherwise boring Sunday.
 
coreyvice said:
FWIW, the only story I heard of was last season that he was showing up late and leaving early. On this board before I joined it.

Can't say I blame him. I've worked for inept bosses before and haven't done any more than was required of me...
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If this is the case, that would say a ton of the type character that Carr has. It is his job to do his best despite circumstances.
 
Porky said:
More of the same sob song. Do you guys really think a Pro QB bringing his Dad with him to practice endears himself to his teammates, or that it helps engender respect for him, and helps teamwork? Heck, why couldn't Lewis Sander's Dad be at every practice. How about Gary Walker's wife. I'm sure he would have liked that too. The truth is it makes him look like a wussy Daddy's boy. Not exactly someone you want to have as a team leader. It's extremely well known that this organization has coddled him, and that he has a poor work ethic. Keep on making excuses, it just makes for good laughter on on otherwise boring Sunday.
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Got to agree with you on this. Man, i love my kids but i do not attend all of their practices and this is high school and intermediate school. Got to let kids do things on their own. Especially when they are grown and married. What if every player brought their family members. Just not right and this organization needs to treat carr the same as all other players if he is going to get any respect.
 
:crying: The one dad who may belong at a practice would be Archie Manning . I'm betting Archie does'nt show up much because its Peyton's life .

I'm all about family but if I'm gonna be the the face of a franchise then from mid July to hopefully Febuary , I'm bustin my butt to get the job done and be the lead dog so the rest will follow . Then I get some down time with the family and can afford to go anywhere to relax .

David Carr and his dad were extremely naive to think that the NFL is on the same plane as Mayberry . I had myself talked out of Vince and trading down .
 
I'll state this and then drop out of here. Two weeks ago I spoke of Carr not being a big practice or film guy and said that people were peeved at this. I got jumped like a jilted lover by Carr lovers. They told me I needed a source and was making things up. Right after that I wrote 610 and not only did they say the coaches were peeved at him and it was a leadership thing but now it is being brought up in other articles. Just saying where there is smoke there is fire. If the guy is to become what many want in him he is going to have to be 100% committed to being a QB night and day. Part of the job that pays that much money. Makes me wonder if alot of the Capers blame, which is warranted in part, shouldn't be attributed to a guy who wasn't willing to saty a little later and work out the kinks.
 
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..
 
HoustonFrog said:
I'll state this and then drop out of here. Two weeks ago I spoke of Carr not being a big practice or film guy and said that people were peeved at this. I got jumped like a jilted lover by Carr lovers. They told me I needed a source and was making things up. Right after that I wrote 610 and not only did they say the coaches were peeved at him and it was a leadership thing but now it is being brought up in other articles. Just saying where there is smoke there is fire. If the guy is to become what many want in him he is going to have to be 100% committed to being a QB night and day. Part of the job that pays that much money.
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if that is the case of him not studying film.. then I agree. I can't comment on any of that because I am not at practice..If Carr is one that isn't pulling his weight.. we need to cut our losses..

I just find it hard to believe McNair would keep Carr if this is truely what is going on and if McNair blind to that, it is a shame
 
Wolf said:
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..
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Gosh!!! DC's dad was just as bad Capers & Co. I hope we get rid of him too. He really let the D down this year. P-Buch played better than DC's dad.
 
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.
 
profan said:
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.
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I agree with that,but that was between McNair ,Capers, Carr etc..etc.. and I am not sure what the logic is/was on that...
 
:evilb: If you have ever played beer league sports and wanted to go out after the game ...to like a well a Wendy's . Theres that guy who wants to know if his wife can go . This OK once or twice but after that he does'nt get invited .

I agree with Frog about the Carr rumors and I bet Kubiak's heard them also . The issue is can a Zebra change its stripes . Take Vinnnnnnnnnnnn .
 
profan said:
while, many of you don't mind having carrs dad at practice, i ask you what if every player brought family members to practice? I don't think it had an effect on carrs performance, just that their should be rules. If you had a bunch of relatives at the practices, then, it would become a distraction. Practice should be for players only, except for some open practices that everyone could attend. No just one parent.
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Well I kind of agree with you. I know, that if I was a coach, I wouldn't allow anybody but players and coaches to practices. I just think that this whole issue of DC's dad being at the practices and then getting booted from them is so :brickwall dumb that people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I'm making fun of people who are thinking that DC's dad was the cause of his play.
 
Wolf said:
I would have to say no one had a problem with Carr's dad at practice the first few years and being this organization couldn't or didn't know how to get the offense on track, next thing you know they blame it on Carr's dad. at practice..

I guess people have to find faults with anything about anyone when we are losing.. and I am not a Carr homer or hater.. I know he can't read defenses well... I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) .. now with those guys and Kubiak is on board.. before we even get to the draft it is now "fire Carr's dad" talk..


some of y'all amaze me.

One thing I will agree with some of yall.. Our coaching staff did baby Carr..
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I think we can assume, right now, that there was a lot going on behind the scenes in the Texans organization these years. We don't know that Carr's dad was/wasn't a problem the whole time and it just took the impeding loss of jobs to get the coaches to ban him from practices.

What I see happening is a lot of stories about the "real" Texans coming out now that Capers is gone. (Could this be part of the factional infighting McClain and Justice keep referring?) I feel for Carr in that he is stuck in the middle of a bunch of poor coaching and personnel decisions.
 
MojoX said:
I think we can assume, right now, that there was a lot going on behind the scenes in the Texans organization these years. We don't know that Carr's dad was/wasn't a problem the whole time and it just took the impeding loss of jobs to get the coaches to ban him from practices.

What I see happening is a lot of stories about the "real" Texans coming out now that Capers is gone. (Could this be part of the factional infighting McClain and Justice keep referring?) I feel for Carr in that he is stuck in the middle of a bunch of poor coaching and personnel decisions.
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you may be right,because as much heat as Carr takes on the coaches.. I remember Coleman,Sharper,Glenn.D-rob and I believe Walker at on point having comments on the system we ran here.. but lots of it was hush-hush..
 
The problem is that there was one set of rules for Carr, and another set for the rest of the team. I think that a professional QB making millions of dollars ought to be able to practice without his Dad. Having said that, the larger issue isn't neccesarily his Dad being there, but it does point out that the Texans ran a caste system, where the rules you lived by was determined by the pecking order. That does NOT help foster respect for said player or a cohesive team environment. Take that along with poor work ethic, lack of leadership, lack of film study, etc., and you have a recipe for disaster, and that's exactly what has happened. If they keep Carr, Kubiak and the entire organization must stop treating Carr differently than others, and as the QB making millions, and the "field general", they should demand no less than his maximum effort year round.
 
Wolf said:
if that is the case of him not studying film.. then I agree. I can't comment on any of that because I am not at practice..If Carr is one that isn't pulling his weight.. we need to cut our losses..

I just find it hard to believe McNair would keep Carr if this is truely what is going on and if McNair blind to that, it is a shame
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And Wolf that has always been the rub with me. I'm not saying Carr isn't a quality person with his family, etc. I just heard the rumors swirl about this last season. Then people backed up what I heard and this is the second or third article where it has been mentioned. If you are going to commit the money, then they have to commit the time. The NFL is not easy on time, family, etc. If he'd rather do it his way then I don't like paying the money. I'm an attorney and if a firm decided to pay me a ton of money and I decided to start showing up at 9 and going home at 5, while others were burning the midnight oil, I wouldn't last too long.
 
Porky said:
The problem is that there was one set of rules for Carr, and another set for the rest of the team. If they keep Carr, Kubiak and the entire organization must stop treating Carr differently than others, and as the QB making millions, and the "field general", they should demand no less than his maximum effort year round.
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I agree. This could be part of the reason why certain players don't respect him. The babying of Carr is probably part of the reason for his failure at the NFL level. The guy was spoonfed the job and never had to worry about someone taking it. I am starting to believe this has been McNair's doing more than the coaches.
 
reading the article. Justice talks about drafting Peppers instead of Carr in 2002 and then 2003 draft Palmer and it cracks me up.. Did we address to OL in 2002 or 2003?Palmer would have ran throught the same system as Carr and Capers and co. would have been coddled him too.. we would not have had AJ if that scenario played out..

I have serious doubts that Carson would have had the success here as he had last season in Bengaltown.
 
If Carr is still around Houston this off-season, he will be too busy learning a new system of X's and O's to learn anything substantive from Troy Aikman about being the QB, he can only tell him the same dribble we've all repeated on this board, its not as if he would be around to be sure he follows through during the season. It would also seem that Troy would be more inclined to instruct Drew Henson (the Cowboys pet-project at QB that has been put on hold) on the art of being Quarterback, as he will likely get the job after the Cowboys tank next year, Parcells quits, and Jones deals Bledsoe...
 
Fighting Blue Hen said:
I agree. This could be part of the reason why certain players don't respect him. The babying of Carr is probably part of the reason for his failure at the NFL level. The guy was spoonfed the job and never had to worry about someone taking it. I am starting to believe this has been McNair's doing more than the coaches.
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then that is Caper's fault and it cost him his job

I wouldn't blame Carr on that.
on blowouts and when Carr struggled.. I never understood why Capers didn't go with Banks or even with the 49er game this year.. why didn't Ragone play?
 
Wolf said:
then that is Caper's fault and it cost him his job

I wouldn't blame Carr on that.
on blowouts and when Carr struggled.. I never understood why Capers didn't go with Banks or even with the 49er game this year.. why didn't Ragone play?
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I agree in not blaming Carr, however is it truly Caper's fault if he was only doing what the boss (Bob McNair) wanted? Of course, I don't know if that was the case but it wouldn't surprise me when I see stuff like this.
 
SheTexan said:
You guys are just hell bent on bashing David Carr. It wouldn't matter to you if he worked out 16 hrs a day, seven days a week, divorced his wife, became an atheist (sp) and drank beer with Steve McKinney every night. You would still hate him because the stupid TEXANS didn't (or won't) draft the Steve McNair clone from Texas. And you guys think women are hard headed!!!!
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You go girl! :rofl:
 
:challenge In time we'll know if its Carr or the system . The big question is how much were the Texans actions , influenced by what may be an average QB ?

Catering to Elway can be somewhat justified but if they catered to Carr and he's just an OK QB who leaves early from practice ... will kill a team .
 
I don't know about Justice.. I admit I don't read his stuff often except what is on here. I was suprised with this statement. I mean Matt won the heisman 2 years ago and turned around and put a better season after that except Bush did even better.

this is what I saw..
I believe David Carr is going to have a nice NFL career. I believe he's going to have a better career than Matt Leinart.

The Texans drafted him, then have given him only limited chances to succeed. If he has an offensive line and a tight end and another wide receiver, he'll succeed.

This isn't about David Carr. It's about the chance to draft a guy who's way, way different from anyone who has come out in years. Vince Young makes the Texans better, more interesting, etc.

Yes, I'm a Texas alum. I've been out of school 30 years. I'm over it.
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http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2006/01/vince_and_the_t.html
 
Wolf said:
I don't know about Justice.. I admit I don't read his stuff often except what is on here. I was suprised with this statement. I mean Matt won the heisman 2 years ago and turned around and put a better season after that except Bush did even better.
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I believe David Carr is going to have a nice NFL career. I believe he's going to have a better career than Matt Leinart.

The Texans drafted him, then have given him only limited chances to succeed. If he has an offensive line and a tight end and another wide receiver, he'll succeed.

This isn't about David Carr. It's about the chance to draft a guy who's way, way different from anyone who has come out in years. Vince Young makes the Texans better, more interesting, etc.

Yes, I'm a Texas alum. I've been out of school 30 years. I'm over it.
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I agree with the first part, realize what a VY :homer: he really is. Leinart is soft, and I think he's going to get lit up when he get's into the pros. Justice seems similar to Nighthawk in the sense he wants VY because he's flashy, not because he wants to win a SB with whoever...JM:twocents:.
 
Wow, McNair must be the biggest knucklehead, multi-millionaire on the planet. I mean, is he really the kind of ultra successful businessman who signs off on checks and has no idea what they're for and why??? Do you guys really want to believe...so badly, that McNair would give Carr a $8M check because he won't commit to becoming a better QB or did the "Carr Familia" really buffalo this highly intelligent businessman??? If this is true, I would recommend that most of us fans "JUMP SHIP". Seriously, if our owner is that short sighted, then what on God's green earth do you think he will do to turn this thing around??? ABANDON SHIP... ABANDON SHIP... NUMBSKULL AT THE HELM... ABANDON SHIP!!!

Another angle, everyone says Carr is not comitting to the team (must be gospel) well, I ask all of you... what exactly have the Texans comitted to Carr, besides a paycheck???
 
I'll be the first to say, that if Carr was not committed to winning with the Texans, then I say ship his *** off the team. I remember talking to Carr while he was still in Fresno (I got to meet him once, great guy) and he was excited about going to Houston where they were kind of going for a "fresh start" in the NFL. It's easy to tell Carr wants to play for the Texans because he keeps showing up week to week for this team even though they have done next to nothing to aid his way in helping Houston football get to the top.
 
SheTexan said:
How do you know this??
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I listen and read various media reports, listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

Need examples?

Okay, how many players got to have their Dad on the sidelines during practice?

How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link

Who do you think he is referring to?

When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)

There is really no doubt about this, and about what players within the locker room think. It's really not that hard to deduce at all.
 
Porky said:
How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link

Who do you think he is referring to?
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Probably Mark Brunell, since he was the QB for the Jaguars at the time... ;)
 
Wolf said:
I know after 4 years he should be better, but I guess when you run out of Fire Palmer talke then it shifts to fire Pendry (who really helped this offense along) ..
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How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.
 
TEXANS84 said:
How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.
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Exactly. Pendry was out of the NFL when Capers came calling. Now we know why...
 
Porky said:
What's funny is the lengths by which some people will protect their boy. If Carr was a black QB from the wrong side of town, he would have been run out of town on a rail already. Teaching a Pro QB who was the #1 pick of the draft, and entering his 5th yr, how to be a QB is laughable. Yet, the defend Carr brigade somewhow manages to contort this whole thing into a positive. Funny, really really funny. lol:
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That ranks up there next to the idiocy that Boselli's so called relative proclaimed he would be back to play for the Texans. Man you are just reaching for everything now. Weak. You must really of loved the job that Casserly, Capers, Palmer, Pendry and the oline have been doing. Did you also think the defense was solid too? bwaaahahahah.
 
:superman: If the Texans win two in a row , me and my Dad will get our hair cut . Never mind I think Montana and his Dad pulled this crap already .
 
TEXANS84 said:
How? 2 wins is helping the offense along?

Palmer was a scapegoat. Capers thought that friends would help run this team better. I don't see Pendry getting offers from anyone, as he still is unemployed.
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it was sarcasm .I meant to put a smiley for that sorry
 
Porky said:
I listen and read various media reports,
listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

OK, you listen to people who have ZERO real knowledge and have just put forward suppositions. There is not ONE MAJOR writer for ESPN or any other reputable source that has ever said that. That has become an Urban rumore perpetuated by folks on this board. Mostly to support their own agendas.

Need examples?

Okay, how many players got to have their Dad on the sidelines during practice?

So WHAT. Unlike the other players his dad lives local and they are close. Was he interfering with the pratice session? NO Was he trying to tell the coaches how to play his kid? NO Was he interfering in any way? NO That is about as weak as those who complain he's good looking.

How about this quote about leadership from Seth Payne: "Tom Coughlin always said don't expect the QB to be the leader because he has too many other things to worry about.'' link

Who do you think he is referring to?

Time when he was on another team. Last I heard, Tom Coughlin never coached the Texans.

When one of the olineman was asked (think it was Weigert) who was the leader of the offense, he had to think for a long time, and when he answered, he didn't say Carr. (this was a radio interview. no link)

No it WASN'T Weigert. It was the new kid who is the long snaper. Now here is a kid who is new to the team and he doesn't even practice with the starting offense. GEEEE real surprise, he didn't know.

There is really no doubt about this, and about what players within the locker room think. It's really not that hard to deduce at all.

THAT is total stinking pile of BS that is just made up and you are trying to pass off as somesort of natural truth like gravity. You are just making up and/or just distorting things to support your agenda.
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That is what I think of what you have posted.
 
SESupergenius said:
That ranks up there next to the idiocy that Boselli's so called relative proclaimed he would be back to play for the Texans. Man you are just reaching for everything now. Weak. You must really of loved the job that Casserly, Capers, Palmer, Pendry and the oline have been doing. Did you also think the defense was solid too? bwaaahahahah.
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What is so *****ic about it? I happen to agree with this statement. Not weak at all. Very powerful, if you ask me. The only thing I don't agree with Porky on what he was saying about Carr placing his job before his family. I'll never fault a man for a decision like that. I think it's possible for a family man to be a great QB. I think the bottom line is you have it or you don't.
 
Originally posted by Porky
I listen and read various media reports,
listen to player interviews, etc. As I said, this isn't a secret. It's been very well known that he lacks leadership skills, has a poor work ethic, and that he has been coddled.

Originally posted by edo783OK, you listen to people who have ZERO real knowledge and have just put forward suppositions. There is not ONE MAJOR writer for ESPN or any other reputable source that has ever said that. That has become an Urban rumore perpetuated by folks on this board. Mostly to support their own agendas.
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Why would John Clayton, for example, have first hand knowledge of something that local members of the media (who are at the practice facility up to five times a week) wouldn't? The local guys know more than you think - because of their proximity to the players and what they hear 'off the record' - but in a one horse town do they have anything to gain from throwing someone under the bus? What, is Justice going to tell McClain "ha ha, I beat you to that "Carr is not a leader" story, John!" Texans coverage is one reason I wish we had more than one paper in town. The other reason is more political.

The stuff about Carr's work ethic (beyond regularly scheduled practices and meetings) and how he is perceived by some team mates has been kicked around by the Chronicle guys and the SportsRadio610 guys for a while now - mostly on the radio - so that's really not new, and it's not some evil plot hatched by this message board's chapter of the 'Vince is God Posse' to plant bad seeds into the minds of the 'David is Peachy Keen Crew.'
 
I hate Justice. No, I really, really, really, really hate Justice. In fact, I would rather read a decades worth, and sadly enough have, of Afro man Dale Robertsons garbage than to read another line by this man.

I dont know why I try. Thinking maybe B/C I hold hopes that someday he will write something worth reading, or he has the inside scope on something that only he knows about.

Carr leaves practice early and starts late? Where is the proof? On this board we have to submit links and our sources and documents and have it notarized and put before a grand jury checked and then cross ref or our threads and posts get erased. He can just spout out things like Carr leaves practice first? Aikman to explain what a QB is supposed to be? What a schmuck.

He needs to get off of Vince's jock before Vince catches somthing.

I hate Justice. Anyone know what the short name for Richard is?:cool:
 
TEXANRED said:
He can just spout out things like Carr leaves practice first?
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Just a note, I have proof that this is NOT the case: word from someone who is there for many of the practices, just (supposedly) like Justice...
 
bigTEXan8 said:
Well I kind of agree with you. I know, that if I was a coach, I wouldn't allow anybody but players and coaches to practices. I just think that this whole issue of DC's dad being at the practices and then getting booted from them is so :brickwall dumb that people are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I'm making fun of people who are thinking that DC's dad was the cause of his play.
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Just to clarify one point - Carr isn't the only Texan who had family members attending practices on a regular basis.
 
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