A Thought for all the Anti Vince people

[Huge]

You're right, they TOO were "surrounded" by talent on the Offensive side of the ball. Though more SKILL positions were stars in the USC system, whereas UT had a better LINE.

Despite that commonality....I don't hear many people claiming that Lineart is a "once in a lifetime" talent (despite a Heisman, despite playing for at least 1/2 a National Championship 3 years in a row). Nor do most think that Bush is ready to step in and take the full load away from DD yet.

Texas had 2 players from their OL that are eligible for the draft (Scott and Allen). Scott now projects as a 2nd rounder. Allen might go 2nd day.

Justin Blalock will go 1st round in '07.
Kasey Studdard might go 1st day in '07.
Lyle Sendelein will probably go 2nd day in '07.

USC had 3 players from their OL that are eligible for the draft (Justice, Lutui, and Matua). Justice is projecting 1st round. Lutui is projected 1st day. Matua is projected 1st/2nd day.

Sam Baker will go 1st day in '07...first round '08.
Ryan Kalil will go 2nd day in '07.

I think there's an obvious gap between the talent at the skill positions. Are you telling me there's an equally obvious gap between the offensive lines? I don't see it.

Most have said Leinart would've gone #1 overall last year as a Jr. That's a pretty big compliment. He doesn't blow you away with his physical abilities but that doesn't detract what he brings to the table.

 

[thunderkyss]

Absolutely agree VY's stats should not be dismissed.



See, this is where things start sounding way overhyped for VY IMO. Leinart isn't in consideration because he is Carson Palmer, part II and therefore not bad but (by implication) no VY. Carson Palmer passed for 3800yds last year 38 TD's and a passer rating of 101--one of only two QB's (Manning is the other) with a QB rating over 100. That's way beyond not bad and if folks are having a real discussion of QB's, anyone who could be as not bad as Carson Palmer should be in the mix rather than dismissed out of hand.

I worked the numbers a week or so ago. As good as you may think Lienart is, he looks more like a poor man's David Carr. If you extrapolate Vince's numbers to match Lienarts attempts, Vince would actually have come out better...... well for throwing yards his college season. I think it is reasonable to do so, since Vince did sit the 4th quarter of most of his games. Not because he couldn't handle it, but because he(and UT) blew opponents out.

3000/1000..... yes, it is once in a lifetime....... never been done before......


Is Vince coming to Houston.... I don't know....... really, I don't know. But I hope he does...

 

[swtbound07]

I hope so too.....a poor man's david carr? man thats really poor. I think years from now, history will vindicate me in the vince young vs. reggie bush debate. And all of the David Carr fans will be saying "well, there is no way we could have known he wasnt the answer". Yes, you can. I know this now. I cant say it any plainer.....mark me down on the reggie bush-bust, vince young-superstar, david carr-already washed up board. Anybody wanna bet money?

 

[Texans_Chick]

Absolutely agree VY's stats should not be dismissed.



See, this is where things start sounding way overhyped for VY IMO. Leinart isn't in consideration because he is Carson Palmer, part II and therefore not bad but (by implication) no VY. Carson Palmer passed for 3800yds last year 38 TD's and a passer rating of 101--one of only two QB's (Manning is the other) with a QB rating over 100. That's way beyond not bad and if folks are having a real discussion of QB's, anyone who could be as not bad as Carson Palmer should be in the mix rather than dismissed out of hand.

Vince Young (last college season), Drafted ???? 6’ 5” 230 lbs

3036 passing yards
65.2 completion percentage
325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

Matt Leinart (last college season), Drafted ???? 6'5", 225 lbs

3815 passing yards
65.7 completion percentage
431 attempts for 283 completions, 13.5 av yards per attempt
28 passing TDs with 8 INTs
51 rushes for 36 yards, .7 av yards per attempt, 6 rushing TDs

Carlson Palmer (last college season), Drafted 1st, 6'6, 230 lbs

3942 passing yards
63.2% completion percentage
489 attempts for 309 completions, 8.06 av yards per attempt
33 passing TDs with 10 INTs
50 rushes for -122 yards, av -2.4 av yards per attempt, 4 rushing TDs

David Carr (last college season-including bowl game), Drafted 1st, 6'3", 220lbs

4830 passing yards
64.5 completion percentage
532 attempts for 343 completions, 9.1 av yards per attempt
46 passing TDs with 9 INTs
93 rushes for 74 yards, .8 av yards per attempt, 5 rushing TDs



Sorry I was a little flippant about my "not bad" comment. I can see Matt Leinart being Carson Palmer Part II--this, of course, would be most team's dreams.

Personally, the reason why I don't think that Leinart is part of the Texans conversation, other than the fact that we seemed to be hitched to the Carr train, is that he doesn't seem to offer anything more to the table than Carr does.

Very gaudy college pocket passer stats. Do I think he will be better than Carr--who knows, but statistically, their college stats are similar--fat completion percentages, lots of yards, not much rushing.

Carr has had to run in the NFL, not by design, but basically for his life.

VY, whether you think he would be a good fit for the Texans or not, has abilities that are measurably different than Leinart/Carr, crazy enough ones to maybe think that it might be worth chucking the time investment that you have in Carr's potential upside (and foregoing the opportunity costs of picking someone else).

Ronnie Brown was drafted second in last year's draft and was the first RB taken. In 2002, his greatest yard gaining year as a RB, he ran for 1008 yards in 175 attempts, averaging 5.8 yards per attempt and 8 TDs. VY as a QB ran for more yards, more TDs in less attempts AND had as a QB had the best regular season completion percentage. (Heck, VY had more rushing yards than Bush last yearm tho I don't want to because I think he will be a great player).

Do I think we will draft VY--no. But you asked why Leinart's name isn't being thrown around much as it relates to the Texans and I am thinking that it is: 1. He doesn't offer you anything different than what Carr brings*; 2. Obviously, there is the hometown connection that some of the general public fans care about.

There may be a debate about whether someone with VY's skill set can succeed in the NFL, a league that wants to plug and play their QBs. But certainly, there are not really good comparisons to VY, and it is hard to project someone who has sick QB stats and also stats that would make a lot of running backs green with envy.

It just should cause GMs in the league some pause if they pass this sort of player up. You just don't see this combo of size and skill sets. At least I haven't--with my eyes or checking out stats.







*Based on potential. Read Carr's old scouting reports before he was drafted.

 

[HomeBred_Texan]

Look, I watched several UT games. Vince had a bad habit of lobbing the ball up for grabs and his RECEIVER made the plays. Not VY. Go back and watch the film if you dont beleive me. We should be trying to get UT's reciever, not Vince Young. He will warm a bench for 2 years before he is NFL caliber...

 

[Huge]

Every QB lobs the ball up to his playmaking receivers. The only TD Leinart threw in the Rose Bowl was a jump ball to Jarrett which wasn't even in the endzone. Jarrett had to get the final few yards himself. If you have those players at your disposal, you'd be stupid not to take advantage of it.

Now if the majority of his passes were of this nature, then you'd have an argument. Unfortunately for those that think this, there's visual evidence that refutes that belief. Just ask...

 

[Huge]

Almost forgot...

If he does warm the bench for two years before he's ready, I guess that'd put him in the same company with:
Steve Young
John Elway
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Rich Gannon

Among others.

Now some of those are merely Pro Bowlers. Others are Hall of Famers and Super Bowl MVP's.

 

[kbourda]

Look at the respective talent that Leinart and Bush have been surrounded with.

Has that been stopping all the Bush supporters from pointing out the number of 25+ yard plays, his yards per carry average, his all-purpose yards, etc.?

Can't have it both ways.

Thank you for taking the words out of my mouth.

 

[kbourda]

turp and monarch are the "are you crazy of course you draft Young!!!" new blood infusion that we need around here ... thunderkyss and big b 1 were starting to lose some momentum ...

I don't think they have lost any momentum. There are still Young supporters on this board. Believe it or not.

 

[swtbound07]

I don't think they have lost any momentum. There are still Young supporters on this board. Believe it or not.

I believe it....my avatar isnt a coincidence

 

[thunderkyss]

Almost forgot...

If he does warm the bench for two years before he's ready, I guess that'd put him in the same company with:
Steve Young
John Elway
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Rich Gannon

Among others.

Now some of those are merely Pro Bowlers. Others are Hall of Famers and Super Bowl MVP's.

Bret Favre...... you forgot Bret Favre...

I guess those guys weren't as NFL ready as Lienart......

 

[stonedtexansfan]

Originally Posted by Huge
Almost forgot...

If he does warm the bench for two years before he's ready, I guess that'd put him in the same company with:
Steve Young
John Elway
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Rich Gannon

Among others.

Now some of those are merely Pro Bowlers. Others are Hall of Famers and Super Bowl MVP's.

Bret Favre...... you forgot Bret Favre...

I guess those guys weren't as NFL ready as Lienart......

Bret Farve only sat for 1 year, before starting in his second. Same for Tom Brady. Peyton Manning took every snap in his rookie year, his brother started half way thro. Steve McNair sat behind Chris Chandler a few years. Mark Brunall sat behind Bret Farve, as did Matt Hassleback and Aaron Brooks. Mike Vick sat a while then started, while Troy Aikman took his licks his rookie year. Look at Big Ben who started as a rookie. You can argue sit vs. play for days and neither person get anywhere. VY will need to seat, but not on the Texans bench.

 

[threetoedpete]

Second round? Strictly for arguments sake?

I would think about it. My biggest beef with drafting Young is that we drop that #1 pick and foolish #1 salary on him, with Carr already in place. Just bad business, no how matter how you want to dice it.

I still think we can use the #2 better elsewhere, but were it feasible that Young drop to Round 2 (without some *big* bomb coming out of nowhere that many of us probably wouldn't be prepared to deal with, I am talking Marcus Vick type stupidity) ... were it feasible? I would give it a lot of thought.

Agreed: I don't hate VY. I'm very grateful for the NC. However, it's going to take a LOT of hard work. He isn't ready yet. Anyone tellin you he is is full of dung. Look at the Balyor, OkSt. and Kansas games anyone can see it. He has the chance to something very special. It's just going to be aweful hard in the win now NFL for an organazation to plunk 70 mill down on a very polsihed maybe. However, a 2 and 10 mill, that's a little different. I'd take the gamble in the second. After we had one of the top five guys locked with the one. I'm not talkin' RB either. I'm talkin' a pro bowl type guy who will give the team a very high prfomance for many years...Brick, Hawk, I don't like Mario.., Huff, or Davis( anything that runs 4.38 IS your #2 WR and will absolutely kill Dungie's two deep zone) . Lot of very good football players between 32 and 60. I'd do it. But wouldn't surprise me if we passed on him in the second also.

 

[threetoedpete]

Hmmm....I don't know McNair's college stats but they would be hard to properly compare anyways because of the college competition, however, though these stats aren't perfect, looking prospect to prospect, I think that VY compares very favorably to Vick and McNabb as a prospect (not to mention the intangibles of the championship and competitiveness).

I can understand why people might not want the Texans to take VY, but I don't understand why people think that VY should plummet in this draft given that his QB stats kick most college QBs stats, even of the players who ended up having remarkable pro careers, and VY's college career was beyond remarkable.

Ok,with guys running wide open he gets the ball there with very nice touch. Deep down the feild ect, ect... But, in the NFL there are not a lot of occasions that guys are wide open. Third and seven and you got to stick it in a one foot window, with a reciever bracketed front and back, within two point five seconds..., from under center, not the shotgun.... that's different. Vinny believes he's a lock to make the transition. And I'm saying Vinniy's full of it. So is McClain. And if it was their money, they'd pass the guy by also. VY delivery is so inconsistant that you never know from game to game when you're going to get one of his high and sailin' balls for the whole game. And that's not sometimes. It happens a lot. In college his legs got him though. But this ain't college. He's improved alot since his freshman year. But till he fixes his mechanics he'll be a loose canon. And no one in the NFL is going to pay 40 plus millon for a loose cannon. No One ! Especailly when the guy is saying publicly that his mechanics are fine. So what you got here is a guy who can run like a deer with a decent arm and absolutly horrible mechanics for a passer, who hasn't got a clue. There's a reason that little sheet in Green Bay from Mississippi has two supper bowl rings and all of those come back wins. His mechnics are perfect and he can knock a fly out of the air at seven yards. He can thread a ball between four guys at third and longwith people draped all over his reciever. VY may never be able to.

 

[swtbound07]

Ok,with guys running wide open he gets the ball there with very nice touch. Deep down the feild ect, ect... But, in the NFL there are not a lot of occasions that guys are wide open. Third and seven and you got to stick it in a one foot window, with a reciever bracketed front and back, within two point five seconds..., from under center, not the shotgun.... that's different. Vinny believes he's a lock to make the transition. And I'm saying Vinniy's full of it. So is McClain. And if it was their money, they'd pass the guy by also. VY delivery is so inconsistant that you never know from game to game when you're going to get one of his high and sailin' balls for the whole game. And that's not sometimes. It happens a lot. In college his legs got him though. But this ain't college. He's improved alot since his freshman year. But till he fixes his mechanics he'll be a loose canon. And no one in the NFL is going to pay 40 plus millon for a loose cannon. No One ! Especailly when the guy is saying publicly that his mechanics are fine. So what you got here is a guy who can run like a deer with a decent arm and absolutly horrible mechanics for a passer, who hasn't got a clue. There's a reason that little sheet in Green Bay from Mississippi has two supper bowl rings and all of those come back wins. His mechnics are perfect and he can knock a fly out of the air at seven yards. He can thread a ball between four guys at third and longwith people draped all over his reciever. VY may never be able to.

Not a chance in the world. If it was my money, it wouldnt be going to david carr. It wouldnt go to reggie bust.

One small point...i BET somebody does give the man his 40 mill

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

turp and monarch are the "are you crazy of course you draft Young!!!" new blood infusion that we need around here ... thunderkyss and big b 1 were starting to lose some momentum ...

Yeah, those guys got me fired up.
I'm back!!!
VY rocks!!
Carr Sucks!!!

Ha hahahahahahah.

I just read all the posts and found myself laughing at some, cringing at some others, and just flat-out skipping some after a few sentences (Morknolle). I mean threetoedpete said that B. Favre has 2 SB rings. Get it straight, he has 1 ring with another appearance.

TexansChick, keep up the stat work, I love reading it every time

chuckm, keep up the banter, I almost fell out of my chair whan I read your post.


Look guys, bottomline (how many times has someone said that:brickwall ), VY:
1. will not be a bust
2. will not need 2 1/2-3 seasons to develope
3. struggle with snaps from under center
4. be a loose cannon
5. have trouble with an NFL playbook

Just face it, this is the million dollar question right now. After Carrs, VY's, and Bush's career's are over with, we'll know the answer then.

To the VY fans. Do we really want him to play for this "deer in the headlights", losing oranization? I want him to from a selfish standpoint, but in all honesty......NO!!!! I'd much rather see him go to an organization with a winning tradition or one with with winning on their radar screen. I've heard AZ might take a gander his way if available and with Edge, Fitzgerald, Bolden, and Coach Green along with that new stadium and possibly new uniforms (same name though, rumored). That'd be cool. I've heard the Rams might be interested. The Greatest Show on Turf Part II......Could you imagine Steven Jackson, Holt, Bruce, Faulk, and VY.....Holy Playoffs Batman.

Come draft day, I'll be prepared for the worse but ready. And wherever he may land I'll become an automatic fan of that team. I'll still be a fan of the Texans, but I'll be the worst kind. I'll be the one you hate. The one that will point out all the bad things in this forum and on talk radio. It'll take a playoff season to get me to shut-up. Go ahead with your "you're not a true fan crap". So. The organization isn't a true fan of winning.

And yes jerek, I've got your $50 bucks in non-sequential bills ready along with some other swag that I may give you as well.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'll still be a Texans fan, maybe not the worst kind, but pretty bad....

but when we're loosing games, and looking for a starting QB in two years...... I'll be the one saying, " I hate to say I told you so....... well, actually I don't hate it... but I told so"

And while it's hard for some of you to contemplate, I'm basing this on David Carr's play, not our 2-14 record. Watching Carr, and judging how he handled situations...... more often than not, he did exactly what you wouldn't expect a 4 year starter to do. It'd be nice, if NFL teams didn't blitz so well, but they do. Yeah, Manning got it handed to him..... so did Plummer. But you won't see too many teams trying that crap with Indy.... most teams aren't good enough to beat that line, and Manning. Manning will pick apart most NFL teams. He couldn't beat the SB Champs....... big deal.

Carr get's beat by the Rams..... the 49ers.... the worst teams(other than the Texans that is) in the league.

 

[chuckm]

To the VY fans. Do we really want him to play for this "deer in the headlights", losing oranization? I want him to from a selfish standpoint, but in all honesty......NO!!!! I'd much rather see him go to an organization with a winning tradition or one with with winning on their radar screen. I've heard AZ might take a gander his way if available and with Edge, Fitzgerald, Bolden, and Coach Green along with that new stadium and possibly new uniforms (same name though, rumored). That'd be cool.

I just looked up "deer in the headlights, losing organization" in my dictionary and found a picture of Bill Bidwell ....

 

[Texans_Chick]

I just looked up "deer in the headlights, losing organization" in my dictionary and found a picture of Bill Bidwell ....

LOL!!

To the VY fans. Do we really want him to play for this "deer in the headlights", losing oranization? I want him to from a selfish standpoint, but in all honesty......NO!!!! I'd much rather see him go to an organization with a winning tradition or one with with winning on their radar screen. I've heard AZ might take a gander his way if available and with Edge, Fitzgerald, Bolden, and Coach Green along with that new stadium and possibly new uniforms (same name though, rumored). That'd be cool. I've heard the Rams might be interested. The Greatest Show on Turf Part II......Could you imagine Steven Jackson, Holt, Bruce, Faulk, and VY.....Holy Playoffs Batman.

Come draft day, I'll be prepared for the worse but ready. And wherever he may land I'll become an automatic fan of that team. I'll still be a fan of the Texans, but I'll be the worst kind. I'll be the one you hate. The one that will point out all the bad things in this forum and on talk radio. It'll take a playoff season to get me to shut-up. Go ahead with your "you're not a true fan crap". So. The organization isn't a true fan of winning.

I like VY. I think he will be a great player. I will definitely keep an eye on his career.

That being said, life is too short to be just a toldyouso fan. For me at least, being a fan is giving up your heart to the team, even if it means it gets stomped on from time to time. But I guess people can be fans in different ways.

And BTW, it is quite possible that Bush has an amazing career with the Texans. So lets just go for a ride.

 

[jerek]

I hate to beat the dead horse that is my pet peeve, but what the heck do you know? Absolutely nothing more or less than the rest of us. You have no idea what the texans will or wont do. You dont work for them, and from everything we hear they have far from made up their minds. If you really had a handle on what was going on inside the organization, how come you werent touting the weaver signing weeks ago? Just stop speaking in absolutes about something that we really dont have a definitive answer about.

I hope so too.....a poor man's david carr? man thats really poor. I think years from now, history will vindicate me in the vince young vs. reggie bush debate. And all of the David Carr fans will be saying "well, there is no way we could have known he wasnt the answer". Yes, you can. I know this now. I cant say it any plainer.....mark me down on the reggie bush-bust, vince young-superstar, david carr-already washed up board. Anybody wanna bet money?

How ironic what you "know" ... and yet all of these other "experts" out there are divided on the issue ... and then when Coach C tells you he "knows" we are not drafting Vince (which, IMO, is far more assured than the sort of "automatic" NFL success you and others ascribe to Vince) ... you throw a hissy fit.

And out of curiousity, how was he supposed to tout the Weaver signing weeks ago? They brought the guy in over the weekend, even if they had it scheduled weeks ago, there was nothing certain about his signing then, now was there? Esp with the ongoing CBA-talks? Coach C could be Charley's brother or he could be a librarian's aide, but way to attack his omniscience there, buddy.

Hypocrisy? Is that you?

Yeah, those guys got me fired up.

I'm back!!!
VY rocks!!
Carr Sucks!!!

Ha hahahahahahah.

I just read all the posts and found myself laughing at some, cringing at some others, and just flat-out skipping some after a few sentences (Morknolle). I mean threetoedpete said that B. Favre has 2 SB rings. Get it straight, he has 1 ring with another appearance.

TexansChick, keep up the stat work, I love reading it every time

chuckm, keep up the banter, I almost fell out of my chair whan I read your post.

Look guys, bottomline (how many times has someone said that ), VY:
1. will not be a bust
2. will not need 2 1/2-3 seasons to develope
3. struggle with snaps from under center
4. be a loose cannon
5. have trouble with an NFL playbook

Just face it, this is the million dollar question right now. After Carrs, VY's, and Bush's career's are over with, we'll know the answer then.

To the VY fans. Do we really want him to play for this "deer in the headlights", losing oranization? I want him to from a selfish standpoint, but in all honesty......NO!!!! I'd much rather see him go to an organization with a winning tradition or one with with winning on their radar screen. I've heard AZ might take a gander his way if available and with Edge, Fitzgerald, Bolden, and Coach Green along with that new stadium and possibly new uniforms (same name though, rumored). That'd be cool. I've heard the Rams might be interested. The Greatest Show on Turf Part II......Could you imagine Steven Jackson, Holt, Bruce, Faulk, and VY.....Holy Playoffs Batman.

Come draft day, I'll be prepared for the worse but ready. And wherever he may land I'll become an automatic fan of that team. I'll still be a fan of the Texans, but I'll be the worst kind. I'll be the one you hate. The one that will point out all the bad things in this forum and on talk radio. It'll take a playoff season to get me to shut-up. Go ahead with your "you're not a true fan crap". So. The organization isn't a true fan of winning.

And yes jerek, I've got your $50 bucks in non-sequential bills ready along with some other swag that I may give you as well.

At least you're honest. And I appreciate the timely payoff.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

How ironic what you "know" ... and yet all of these other "experts" out there are divided on the issue ... and then when Coach C tells you he "knows" we are not drafting Vince (which, IMO, is far more assured than the sort of "automatic" NFL success you and others ascribe to Vince) ... you throw a hissy fit.

And out of curiousity, how was he supposed to tout the Weaver signing weeks ago? They brought the guy in over the weekend, even if they had it scheduled weeks ago, there was nothing certain about his signing then, now was there? Esp with the ongoing CBA-talks? Coach C could be Charley's brother or he could be a librarian's aide, but way to attack his omniscience there, buddy.

Hypocrisy? Is that you?



At least you're honest. And I appreciate the timely payoff.

What about 5 rolls of quarters??

 

[jerek]

What about 5 rolls of quarters??

If a bank will take them, I'm good.

100 rolls of pennies? That would be just hateful.

 

[Dr. Toro]

There's a reason that little sheet in Green Bay from Mississippi has two supper bowl rings and all of those come back wins. His mechnics are perfect and he can knock a fly out of the air at seven yards. He can thread a ball between four guys at third and longwith people draped all over his reciever. VY may never be able to.

Favre is great, but that big arm ain't a be-all-end-all. It's gotten him into a lot of trouble, too. For every rocket armed great qb, there's a great who is accurate, makes the right decisions, and has great touch and vision. For some guys, 'weaknesses' can be strengths and 'tools' can create problems. It's all about how the athlete utilises the skills. The same can be said for VY's legs. Earlier in his career, that tool hindered his development as a QB... witness all the gaudy jukes and cutbacks to the middle from his fr. year. Now, he seldom goes down, gets to the corner, and runs out of bounds.

Let's not criticise VY for hitting wide open receivers, two things are happening there; a)his legs are helping guys get open b) he's spotting them. I think VY's vision is underrated. What impresses me about VY is how he has a) learned to efficiently utilise his legs b) improve his relative weaknesses, passing, decision making c) compensate for lack of a rocket favre-cutler-elway arm. Again, its nice to fit that ball into a tiny window, but it's equally important to create favorable down and distance situations and to create/find bigger windows. Those things aren't as easily measured and are generally underappreciated.

I think this talk about VY not fitting it into windows is a little overblown. I have never seen a college qb do a better job of placing the ball to the corner/sideline/endline of the redzone where only the receiver can get it. This is something he developed in 2005, and we are not talking aboout jump balls... perfect passes. Check out the prspect videos to see it. About 10 of his TD passes were like this... it's a trend, not an accident. He almost did it on that last rose bowl td drive

Certainly, guys like carr/cutler make some throws VY can't make, but he makes some throws that nobody else can make.

 

[Huge]

Bret Farve only sat for 1 year, before starting in his second. Same for Tom Brady. Peyton Manning took every snap in his rookie year, his brother started half way thro. Steve McNair sat behind Chris Chandler a few years. Mark Brunall sat behind Bret Farve, as did Matt Hassleback and Aaron Brooks. Mike Vick sat a while then started, while Troy Aikman took his licks his rookie year. Look at Big Ben who started as a rookie. You can argue sit vs. play for days and neither person get anywhere. VY will need to seat, but not on the Texans bench.

Brett Favre's 2nd season statistics:
302/471, 3227 yards, 18 TDs, 13 INTs, 85.3 rating

He built on that glorious second season by following it up with this one...
318/522, 3303 yards, 19 TDs, 24 INTs, 72.2 rating

I think you're confusing "starting" with "being NFL ready". Just because you're doing one doesn't mean you're the other (see David Carr).

In other words, if a team draft Vince and starts him from day one, would you say that makes him "NFL ready" regardless of how he performs? Based on your criteria, he's "NFL ready"...right?

 

[uhcougar08]

The bottom reason why I wouldnt take him at all is because of his inability to read defenses. This one point, I forgot where I read this, but I did. He struggled reading defenses between his Soph and Junior years, so Mack Brown made a great decision for the college game. He told Young he had three choices at the line.
1. Pass to his two given receivers.
2. Hand the ball off.
3. Run like an Elk.
This was very smart, and we can see the results. The fact of him not being able to read defenses, scares the crap out of me. For this reason, I would not take him with our 5th round pick. That's all I gotta say about that.

 

[stonedtexansfan]

Brett Favre's 2nd season statistics:
302/471, 3227 yards, 18 TDs, 13 INTs, 85.3 rating

He built on that glorious second season by following it up with this one...
318/522, 3303 yards, 19 TDs, 24 INTs, 72.2 rating

I think you're confusing "starting" with "being NFL ready". Just because you're doing one doesn't mean you're the other (see David Carr).

In other words, if a team draft Vince and starts him from day one, would you say that makes him "NFL ready" regardless of how he performs? Based on your criteria, he's "NFL ready"...right?

I dont think he's NFL ready at this time. But his new coach/GM/owner might think he is and puts him out there. I was tryin to state that different QB's have been handled different ways and either they work out or bust. We wont know with with the QBs until the end of his career. And we dont really know if Carr was NFL ready or not since in his first season he got sacked more than any one else in NFL history. We'll just have to see how VY ends up.

 

[infantrycak]

3000/1000..... yes, it is once in a lifetime....... never been done before......

I haven't done the research on this one, but this little stat may be a product of hype rather than reality. One of the guys on 610 am said that the comparison on this for everyone prior to VY was done without any post season. VY didn't reach either 3000 or 1000 during the regular season. They didn't seem to know if anyone had previously done it including their post-season as VY certainly did, but without knowing that the statement is apples and oranges. It is a fantastic achievement regardless of whether someone has done it before.

 

[jerek]

Not a chance in the world. If it was my money, it wouldnt be going to david carr. It wouldnt go to reggie bust.

One small point...i BET somebody does give the man his 40 mill

Just for the record, I doubt it ... unless Vince goes to the Titans, he is falling to the Cardinals ... possibly the Raiders ... and in either case he won't command 40 mil.

 

[jerek]

As far as the Titans, I spent some time browsing their boards (http://www.titansonline.com/fan_zone/message_board/index.php), and it is interesting to see that many (though certainly not all: I would guess that about half) of their fans are looking to replace McNair, either because they believe his game is finished or simply because they think he is getting old and it is time to groom the replacement.

That said, for all that has been made out of Vince's Rose Bowl performance, his relationship to Steve McNair, etc. etc. you would think that everyone on the Titans board would be all over his jock too, huh?

Not so. Vince certainly has contingent of support there, but you will see an awful lot of mention of Leinart, Cutler, or even Drew Brees as McNair's replacement to be. Interestingly I also saw a good bit on D'Brick and even Mario Williams as their first rounder this year ...

Things that make you go HMMMMM ...

EDIT: I know they're only Titans fans ... but you know ... I mean, come on. Just something to think about.

 

[exclude]

I'm going to answer this like this. If Kubiak chooses Carr to be our QB, then it's a wasted pick in round 2. With that in mind, there is no way Young will fall out of the 1st round. The talent level between Young and Rodgers is quite large.

Yes this is so true.

I'm no VY hater, really I'm not, but at the moment, Aaron Rogers is so much better than VY, as far as looking like an NFL QB. I will get spammed for this I know.

 

[Huge]

I dont think he's NFL ready at this time. But his new coach/GM/owner might think he is and puts him out there. I was tryin to state that different QB's have been handled different ways and either they work out or bust. We wont know with with the QBs until the end of his career. And we dont really know if Carr was NFL ready or not since in his first season he got sacked more than any one else in NFL history. We'll just have to see how VY ends up.

Point is, NO QB is "NFL ready" coming out of college. I don't care if Peyton Manning had spent 7 years at Tennessee...he wasn't going to be "NFL ready" coming out of college.

So for somebody to state that he's going to warm the bench for two years before he's ready and think it's coming across as an insult is pretty weak.

 

[infantrycak]

Point is, NO QB is "NFL ready" coming out of college. I don't care if Peyton Manning had spent 7 years at Tennessee...he wasn't going to be "NFL ready" coming out of college.

So for somebody to state that he's going to warm the bench for two years before he's ready and think it's coming across as an insult is pretty weak.

None of them are NFL ready so they are all equally non-NFL ready, huh? Don't think so and there is no insult in trying to grade how much time it will take to develop any draft prospect.

 

[Huge]

Ah yes, put words into another poster's mouth so that you come across as more intelligent (or did I miss the part where I said all QB's were equally unprepared for the NFL?).

 

[disaacks3]

Ah yes, put words into another poster's mouth so that you come across as more intelligent (or did I miss the part where I said all QB's were equally unprepared for the NFL?).

I thought he was extrapolating from THIS comment...

So for somebody to state that he's going to warm the bench for two years before he's ready and think it's coming across as an insult is pretty weak.

Last time I checked, there were QBs that WERE ready before 2 years of 'ridin the pine'. It's hard to find QBs that were taken w/ the top pick staying on the bench that long.

It seems that 3 out of 5 posters on here think that the Texans would be stupid to pass on VY at pick #1. If he's not going to be NFL-ready for 2 years (as was implied), and the STANDARD for #1 picks is less than that, then it could easily be seen as an insult.

For the record, I think Dan Marino WAS "NFL-Ready" coming out of college. It's a shame his receivers took awhile learning how to catch BULLETS.

 

[infantrycak]

Ah yes, put words into another poster's mouth so that you come across as more intelligent (or did I miss the part where I said all QB's were equally unprepared for the NFL?).

Do you see the question mark in my post above? That solicited your clarification if my interpretation of what you were saying was incorrect. Guess my quest for an air of intellectual superiority distracted me from making that less ambiguous. In any event, the point was IMO the fact that no QB is NFL ready doesn't mean college QB's are not more or less NFL ready and that their readiness is not a legitimate factor in analyzing them as draft prospects.

 

[Huge]

Last time I checked, there were QBs that WERE ready before 2 years of 'ridin the pine'. It's hard to find QBs that were taken w/ the top pick staying on the bench that long.

Would you say that more times than not, once they came off the bench they proved they were ready or did it take some struggling (even after sitting for a year...or longer) before they became effective QBs?

It seems that 3 out of 5 posters on here think that the Texans would be stupid to pass on VY at pick #1. If he's not going to be NFL-ready for 2 years (as was implied), and the STANDARD for #1 picks is less than that, then it could easily be seen as an insult.

For the record, I think Dan Marino WAS "NFL-Ready" coming out of college. It's a shame his receivers took awhile learning how to catch BULLETS.

Read the entire post (HomeBred_Texan's) from which I was replying to. This is where I was getting the "insult" tone from.

And yeah, Dan Marino was probably the best QB in the country his senior season in college...including NFL QB's. At least that's what Marino said in an interview before the '83 draft.

But seriously, Marino = exception...not the rule.

Do you see the question mark in my post above? That solicited your clarification if my interpretation of what you were saying was incorrect. Guess my quest for an air of intellectual superiority distracted me from making that less ambiguous. In any event, the point was IMO the fact that no QB is NFL ready doesn't mean college QB's are not more or less NFL ready and that their readiness is not a legitimate factor in analyzing them as draft prospects.

I did see the question mark. My interpretation of your question was you asking me why I would make such a statement when in fact I didn't. Since I have not stated that all QBs are equally/unequally prepared for the NFL coming out of college, then obviously we share the same viewpoint.

My statement that Vince having to prepare for a few years (the manner of which he prepares...sitting/playing...is irrelevent) puts him in the same company of some pretty successful QBs from the present/past. True/False?

Now if that wasn't meant as an insult, then that statement really doesn't jive with the previous statements from the same post (again, read the post I was replying to). Or at least it didn't by my comprehension.