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4th and 1 Fail
- Thread starter Shaft75
- Start date
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
[/IMG]
ughhh
Vinny
shiny happy fan
The Ratbirds figure that if it works for Oakland...
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm....
They were around the Baltimore 20 .... Well inside Rackers range.
I thought it was a ballsy call to make at that point to run the risk of coming up with 0 points on that drive ....
If not for a facemask , Foster gets that yard .... if the facemask is called they end up first and goal on the Baltimore 5 .... and the entire complexion of the game is changed.
So much for calling Kubiak overly conservative.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
the CB was on his way over to cover schaub, u can see him running in behind the LBs. i will watch it but i'm sure he made it to him right before the snap.
Shaft75
All Pro
Maybe it isn't in Kubiaks script for Schaub, but in today's NFL it shouldn't be hard to recognize a white wr that isn't covered.
I guess they have a new wrinkle to work on in practice this week. You get setup for the play, you scan the field and there isn't someone on a wr... Yell "ALERT", snap the ball, and fling it to him.
I guess they have a new wrinkle to work on in practice this week. You get setup for the play, you scan the field and there isn't someone on a wr... Yell "ALERT", snap the ball, and fling it to him.
That facemask was one of those where we didn't make it directly as a result of the penalty. Foster got turned round on that. You cannot go forward if someone is pulling backwards on your mask.
Mike
Blake
MMQB
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm....
The Saints are a playoff team. The Texans are not.
Playoff teams have the fortitude to get over being stuffed. The Texans lack that fortitude and seem to see it as a harbinger of things to come.
Meh. I guess you can look at it that way. But I was simply stating that not all playoff teams can get a yard on 4th and 1.
Where's the other safety?
Grams
Veteran
Just above the football helmet on the right side.
Ah.... so he was covered...
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
he wasn't. pollard was looking at the LOS not walter. not going to pretend i saw it live but i rewatched the play on nfl.com
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8232cf6f/Ravens-defense-4th-down-failed
it looks like matt was even looking at walter walking up to the LOS. a quick pass to walter is an easy 10 yds at least imo. jesus
Ummm..No..
That is the kind of cushion our corners get eaten up on all the time. Walter would have gotten the first at the least.
drunkcookie
2 drunk 2 cook
I liked the call to go for it.. even with a run against that D... C'mon, at their 20 it wasn't a bad call... I wish they'd do that more often...
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Vinny
shiny happy fan
dude was 9-10 yards off of Walter. A quick pass to the sideline gets the first down, but situational awareness isn't a Kubes strong suit. Hail mary's are poorly designed (on both sides of the ball), being caught with out pants down often, passing gimmie FG's in the first quarter on the road vs a stout D. I could go on and on, but this team doesn't "finish" because other teams have more situational awareness and do the little things better than Kubiak coached teams do.
Yeah, but Vinny, it's not even halfway through season 6. It takes a good decade to implement those deeper valued things like situational awareness.
Schaub was looking at Walter as he walked up under Center.
The safety saw Walter open and waived for one of the CBs to come over.
The safety was aware; he knew he can make a jump onto Walter if Schaub decided to go with a quick snap.
Schaub saw all of this.
In fact, this adjusment was to the benefit of the Texans as it occupied that CB and both safeties temporarily.
Saying with the run was the right option, IMHO.
Foster would have made the first down if not for Cody pulling on his face mask and jerked him around.
The angle and the momentum was in Foster's favor.
The safety saw Walter open and waived for one of the CBs to come over.
The safety was aware; he knew he can make a jump onto Walter if Schaub decided to go with a quick snap.
Schaub saw all of this.
In fact, this adjusment was to the benefit of the Texans as it occupied that CB and both safeties temporarily.
Saying with the run was the right option, IMHO.
Foster would have made the first down if not for Cody pulling on his face mask and jerked him around.
The angle and the momentum was in Foster's favor.
So you're saying Schaub didn't have enough confidence in his arm strength to believe that his ball could get to Walter before someone 9-10 yds away from him (Walter) could? Or that even if the CB got there that Walter couldn't make the CB miss in order to pick up ONE YARD?
hmmmm....
When the QB knew that the safety was aware of the situation and didn't go with the quick snap, IMO, it has got to be that the chance of success isn't greater than staying with the run.
By staying with the run, you have 6 men to block 5.
That is an advantage the offense can live with.
If the safety wasn't confident that he can get to Walter in time before the CB can come over, he would have moved up closer.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the safety to stay put if he "thinks" that Walter cannot be covered.
The safety had plenty of time to make his own adjustment.
BTW, the LB Lewis (who was responsible for the cut back) jumped in from the back side and grabbed Myers' leg, hindered him from continue his push on Cody. This is another penalty that the ref missed on this play.
If Lewis didn't grab Myers' leg, Myers would have been able to conitune to push Cody to give Foster the extra momentum.
That was a sure first down for the Texans!
Vinny
shiny happy fan
dude, that box was LOADED. When you have EIGHT in the box it's a defensive plus. They had TEN men in the box....overwhelming numbers.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
What matters is how many defenders there are around the POA.
You only need one yard.
If you have more blockers within that area such that you can gain one yard, that is all you need.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
dude, don't lose your credibility hammering your take.
I know it's not seen much around here, but if that's Reed, he'll close that gap quick, probably take it for 6.
Even Steven wasn't even on the field, how can you blame that on him? Should he have called a Time Out?
I'm really trying not to defend that man.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
if you can't complete a one yard pass with a guy playing ten yards off, you need a different QB, WR, or perhaps both.
Steven who? What are you talking about?
[/IMG]
Walter has to cover 4 yards to get to the other side of the LOS. Ed Reed has to cover 5 yards to get to that spot. There's no way noodle arm is going to get that pass to Walter without Ed Reed contributing to his highlight reel.
& if the ball is thrown to Walter behind the line, then he tries to "shake" Reed to get that first....
Your all dreaming, none of that was going to happen. None of it. If that's Andre, I take that shot, But Walter..... no.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think Matt's long realease and lack of arm strength is a big issue in the RZ and short yardage situations .
As far as the POA and running for the yard Ravens line up about 700 lbs in two guys and they go forward . They also have arguably the greatest ILB in history .
The play that bothered my more was running on a 4th and 3 at the end of the game .
No Vinny, the safety was less than 7 yards from the LOS.
It was Pollard, who can close pretty quickly too.
But heck, maybe he will miss the tackle!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Jarrett Johnson's sitting right there on the edge. If schaub pops up right off the LOS & tries to get that quick lateral pass out to walter, there's a high probability it gets knocked down (or worse) by him coming off the edge. I've seen it happen many times with many different qbs. & after last week with schaub having 7 knocked down & the propensity for something much worse happen if they do try the quick pass.. i much prefer what they wound up doing. & instead of complaining about the actual playcall people would be saying "why go such a long way to get 1 freakin' yard? just run the ball!!!"
Also, the report out on the field before the game started was that the wind was swirling pretty bad on that side of the field..in fact they showed the ravens kicker in pre-game warm ups having 1 bend considerably during the game; in which i think he was at that end of the field. so a 30+ yarder was really not a given...especially for Rackers who missed 1 under better conditions just last week.
Can't say that i agree with where the playcall went, but it is just 1 yard & even on the best run defenses in the NFL, you should be able to get that regardless of where the run play goes.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
look this is ridiculous. if schaub throws it to walter on a wr screen route i.e walter standing still, he can do a handstand and still get a first down.
and stop pretending like ed reed was trying to bait schaub because it wasnt even reed, it was f'n bernard pollard and he was looking at the cb and telling him to get over. theres no way he picks that off or stops a first down
that play is on both schaub and walter. thats not even coaching imo, its just professional common sense
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
johnson gets blocked straight away by dreessen. that wouldve still happened if schaub had thrown it because the other 9 guys wouldve still thought it was a run play if schaub and walter had shown enough awareness
You don't think having 6 to block 5 is an advantage to the offense?
We have the C, 2 guards, the RT, a TE and the FB to block 3 D-linemen, the SAM (#95) and the WILL (#53).
If you can't gain one yard in that situation, how do you expect to have any running game at all?
I've seen many teams in the NFL run the ball from this formation against this D-lineups all the time.
There's nothing particular about it.
Tom Brady or Peyton Manning takes advantage of that situation.
Trent Dilf...errr...Matt Schaub, not so much. Our QB is an extension of our HC.
All hail Wade! His defense is truly our only hope in 2011.
Trent Dilf...errr...Matt Schaub, not so much. Our QB is an extension of our HC.
All hail Wade! His defense is truly our only hope in 2011.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
every defender the Ratbirds had was in the box outside of the guy playing ten yards off Walter. That is 6 blocking 10
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Matt Schaub = Gifford Neilson. Ol milkshake breath
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
first of all, by the time arian gets the ball theres 6 ravens at the LOS (exc the LT & DE like you did)
second no its not as much of an advantage as throwing to a wide open wr... esp when those 5 ravens (by your count) weigh more than the 6 texans and are one of hardest teams to run on
There's a possibility either way.
Schaub gets the snaps and throws the quick out.
Pollard has 7 yards to cover (if Walter ran straight forward from his spot 2 yards behind the LOS - any horizontal motion by Walter gives Pollard the edge).
I like the run with more blockers than defenders better.
Too bad, Schaub doesn't have the total freedom to change it to a vertical route for Walter.
I'll take that one over anything else.
No, we have blocking advantage on the play side.
Lewis had to check the cut back before he can commit to this side.
That's how we got a combo block Myers-Brisiel-Winston on Cody and Gnata.
Eventually, it was the double-team Brisiel-Winston that gave Foster the room.
We only need one yard; a little space was all we need for Foster.
And like I said, the Texans would have gained at least one yard if not for the face mask by Cody and/or the leg pull by Lewis on Myers.
panamamyers
Waterboy
You are completely grasping at straws if you don't think Walter makes that first down easily.
That safety isn't even concerned with Walter He would take a false step or two before he even realized that Walter was getting the ball.
If Schaub doesn't get the ball deflected, and Walter does not drop it, it's an easy 4 or 5 yards.
That safety isn't even concerned with Walter He would take a false step or two before he even realized that Walter was getting the ball.
If Schaub doesn't get the ball deflected, and Walter does not drop it, it's an easy 4 or 5 yards.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Dude, in those types of situations (4th & inches & 1) DE's are taught to seal edges so as to turn the rb inside & look for those types of passes to bat down.... The other 9 guys are irrelevant to this particular play. Dreesen being in front of johnson is also irrelevant b/c all Johnson has to do is take 1 step forward & jump up.
Secondly, for schaub to get that pass out as fast as he needs to, He cannot step far off the LOS. basically all he can do is raise up from under center & throw the ball.... 1 step back & release at the most.... & that's with a quick release.....which schaub does not have. if it takes any longer than that it will not work.
1. If Walter stopped to wait for the ball, he will receive a big hit from Pollard.
2. If Walter goes upfield a little further, Pollard has less dstance to cover.
Between the time the ball was snapped, Schaub taking the ball, threw it.
When the ball arrived into Walter's hand, you just got to know that Pollard will be all over it. There's a good possibility that Walter can hang onto the ball, but there's also definitely a big hit coming from Pollard.
Personally, I don't think I want to play into Pollard's strength.
I'd rather have a long pass to force Pollard to run with Walter if we chose to pass.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Gary would know. He hasn't made it in this league in six years.
drunkcookie
2 drunk 2 cook
I can agree with that...
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Schaub didn't have the freedom to do anything but run the play given to him on that 4th and 1. This thread is full of fantastic football talk, but it's all moot.
Schaub was asked on SR610 yesterday, point blank, if he could have audibled on that play. Schaub's answer was a straight up, "No." No option for Walter. None of that.
For those of you (I love you all), who still thinks that Schaub has been granted a scintilla of power from Kubes to be the general on the field, here's just another example to the contrary.
Go have a listen. I'm sure the link is up on the SR610 site. I can't be arsed to look it up.