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3rd Round DeVier Posey WR Ohio State
- Thread starter TexansFanatic
- Start date
beerlover
Hall of Fame
to follow up what Pencil Neck said, clearly best value approach was something they derived at purely on basis of need with using two early mid round picks. this is where best value presented itself so Rick Smith & Texans took advantage of what they felt was plus value @ WR position's.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
to follow up what Pencil Neck said, clearly best value approach was something they derived at purely on basis of need with using two early mid round picks. this is where best value presented itself so Rick Smith & Texans took advantage of what they felt was plus value @ WR position's.
Its just a gut feeling but I dont think anyone we drafted or signed as an UFA is going to help much this year. We are pinning our hopes on LeStarr Jean.....really need another veteran and at this point I would take a flyer on Plaxico. He wont be expensive and seems to have a small chip on his shulder. Texans were interested last year so why not roll the dice on the cheap?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's MAY.
There's a good chance of more vet WRs getting cut.
We've got a long way to go before we have all our pieces in place. That may mean going with the WRs we've got but odds are we'll pick up one vet WR before it's all said and done.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not arguing your overall point and I may have missed where you mentioned him but Kubiak also paid a 7th for Kevin Walter as a RFA.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
IIRC, Plaxico was interested in the Texans. I don't remember the Texans ever showing any interest in him last year.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The Broncos of the 90's had Rod Smith an UDFA and Ed McCaffery as their WRs .
The Patriots are likely to cut some very interesting names pretty soon. I've been saying that I want a guy who can come in to push for starting playing time. I don't want to stunt the growth of our young guys, but you usually see rookies start to make strides about mid-season playing receiver. We can't afford to wait until then IMO.
There's a guy sitting out there who I would bring in without a question who would provide an upgrade to Kevin Walter, but we're stubborn as a FO about who we bring in.
NCTexan
Veteran
Plaxico? I think quite a few people are advocating for him. I wouldn't mind him coming in at least for camp.
Braylon Edwards is a guy who I think would be better for this offense, and probably would come just as cheap. Big body, willing blocker, able to stretch the field, and has played in a similar offense.
I didnt mention it .... as my post was in response to GP's who mentioned Walter specifically as being the only WR Kubiak has aquired.
Cant complain about the bag of chips given the Bungles in exchange for Walter considering the production.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
They knew their record with WRs and that's probably why they held on to JJ which is ironic considering JJ can't hang on to much .
badboy
Hall of Fame
I doubt NFL teams went to sleep on Posey but not Jones. It's ok but I'm reading in your posts more personal opinion rather than NFL out to get Posey. It's possible that the GMs had a truer eval than you. We just have to wait and see. I hope you are right & I am wrong.In a round about sort of way, they did.
Going into the draft, Smith said over and over that this draft was deep at WR. There were a lot of guys (off the top of my head: Randle, Toon, Sanu, etc.) who would have gone in the 1st-3rd round other years that dropped to later rounds because there were so many talented guys available OR because of character concerns.
Prior to his suspension, Posey was considered a 2nd round talent. A lot of people red-flagged him because of those suspensions as a "bad character" guy but on reviewing why he was suspended, he's really not. He's a very talented receiver that we basically stole because a lot of people slept on him.
Dwight Jones is possibly even more talented and has more potential than Posey except that he DOES have real character concerns. If he hadn't screwed around, he easily could have been drafted in the 2nd round.
Walterfootball had Jones AND K-Mart ranked higher than Posey although I think they were giving too much emphasis to Posey's suspensions.
So, in effect, we got 3 guys at WR who could be considered early round prospects, we just got them in later rounds. So that's a good deal, right?
They held onto JJ because he does have all world talent .... and he flashed it just often enough to keep the team as well as many fans believing in him , believing year after year that he would finally turn the proverbial corner .... He made improvement year over year from 2008-10 but took a step back in 2011.
It took the events in Baltimore to seal his fate as a Texan .... For the team to give up on that talent. He just doesnt have the brain to go with the physical gifts.
Who's to say that another team wouldnt have drafted Posey soon after had the Texans pased on him ??
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I shouldn't have said that other NFL teams went to sleep on Posey. Ultimately, we have no idea how team's boards looked. Let's say we take Randle at that spot (EDIT: I mean when we had the chance), there's no way to know where Posey would have ended up. He might have been the next WR off the board and he might have gone undrafted... although I doubt that.
But we know that Posey dropped on non-NFL Mock boards. And I think THOSE guys went to sleep on him.
I don't think anyone went to sleep on Jones. Jones has legitimate character concerns and those showed up in his Combine and Senior Bowl performances. Walterfootball had him going in the 5th to the Bengals.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yep we can speculate in one hand and.....
badboy
Hall of Fame
I wasn't criticising your choice of words just that perhaps other GMs thought Posey's issues were more of a flag than do you or as I think he is not as good as some think. Again, like I did with KJ, he is on the team now & hope he does well.
Here is a quote form Kubiak today, regarding the WRs:
Flashes. Theyre all what we thought they were. Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me. Youve got to be able to run all day. (DeVier) Posey is out here pretty tired today. Weve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, its exactly what we thought we were going to get.
I know it preseson but kmoon you should be prepared...he's just losing his chances with Jean getting already first team reps.
Too early to tell and also we will see how Ruben Randle plays with NYG since Hakeem Nicks will be out 3 months. He will get the starting role and we will see if we miss out on him and made a huge mistake.
Flashes. Theyre all what we thought they were. Getting a little fatigued right now. That bothers me. Youve got to be able to run all day. (DeVier) Posey is out here pretty tired today. Weve got to get those guys, condition-wise, to where they can do it all day long. But talent-wise, its exactly what we thought we were going to get.
I know it preseson but kmoon you should be prepared...he's just losing his chances with Jean getting already first team reps.
Too early to tell and also we will see how Ruben Randle plays with NYG since Hakeem Nicks will be out 3 months. He will get the starting role and we will see if we miss out on him and made a huge mistake.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Gary Kubiak said:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Tuesday-OTA/0a1a1ad0-5a4b-48ac-a500-6f0e11a733ae
After making my comment earlier in the thread, this came out or I read it soon after. I'm not worried about it right now.
A few things to pick out of this post -
1 - Posey missed most of the season and now we're in the offseason .... you expect him to be in football shape ?
2 - Lestar Jean is more familiar with the Texans system , he knows the routes ... That gives him a distinct advantage from the get go.
3 - Randle may be "handed the starting role" For Now .... He may get more opportunities early but thats because he's not competing for playing time Vs two established veterans .... He's going to get that opportunity because of injury.
Randle's hands and route running do not compare favorably to those of Posey who is a very polished , smooth route runner. One is a one year wonder while the other put up good numbers in multiple seasons for the NCAA's most run heavy offense during that period.
Here's a quote from TC observing OTA's -
I had the opportunity to watch Posey in a Pre-Draft workout .... That was the first thing I noticed about him - His hands are fantastic.
Couple quotes from the mock draft forum -
The bold is why people are pissing and moaning about this pick .....
Thanks for the info, Im just saying that he had a whole year to prepare and keep yourself in good physical shape. But like I said its too early and im not saying that he is a bad player, I HOPE he is the best player that we drafted, but he will always be compared to Randle for the Texans fans, so this could be a great pick or a big miss when we look back to this draft class.
I will still support him and its very exciting to see the rookies on the Texans uniform, after weeks and weeks of reading about them, finally see them on the field of practice is awesome, I cant wait for the preseason games to see Jean, Posey, Martin and Jones.
From all this I dont know why but I think Martin is the one that is going to make a big impact next season, dont know just a gut feeling.
There's a huge difference between being in great shape and being in football shape .... Unless you've walked a mile in those shoes , its difficult to fathom the difference. I didnt play college football ..... but I did play in highschool and I can tell you , the difference is like night and day.
You walk on the field for practice the first time thinking .... "Im ready for this."
Next thing you know you are holding your shorts at best and puking your guts out at worst(especially here in the Houston heat and humidity)."
As for Martin , he's got the best chance to contribute because he doesnt have anyone to compete with for PT outside of Trycycle at PR and is best suited for the slot position .... where he is best suited which you really cant say about the rest of the WR's on this roster - they are outside guy's .... Tho Posey can play from the slot.
I will really like to see Posey playing the slot inside the 40 yl (bigger body than Martin and according to the reports great hands however not so fast) and in the red zone with Jean or Jones on one side and AJ on the other. However I dont remember us playing a 3WR set on the red zone, more like the 2 TE sets but now we have a better personal to expand our offense, even start with casey on the TE slot and motion him to the WR positon...
Posey was clocked as fast as 4.37 in the 40 Pre-Draft ..... Not so fast ?
Dude, you should know better than to bring facts into the equation...
TdotTexas2Step
Rookie
That's a fair point, but from scouting reports I've read, speed isn't listed as a strength for him. As we should all know, 40 times aren't the same as game speed.
GP
Go Texans!
W. T. H??? Try again. You even quoted me, too, and you still attribute me as saying KW is the ONLY WR Kubiak acquired????? Here is the quote, again:
See, this is why I loathe this place sometimes. I didn't say he was THE only WR Kubiak acquired. I mean, I'm not that dense. LOL...SMH. Now you're going to have people thinking that GP thinks KW is the only WR Kubiak has drafted/acquired in his tenure here. Thanks!
What I meant is that KW is the only one who has really accomplished anything here, and even that is a bit of a stretch to say. I meant other than KW there's no other WR Kubiak can be proud of. When I say "OUTSIDE OF Kevin Walter..." that means "What OTHER WRs other than KW have been productive?"
Sometimes I really wonder....
So Jacoby's 16.2 avg per reception (27) in 2009 is nothing ? As is his 51 receptions in 2010 as a #3 ?
BTW Walter lead the league in percentage of catches per targets between 2009/10 ..... When you have that type of production between Walter and #80 (When he's healthy) ..... What need do you have to spend valuable resources on another WR who's likely no better than #4 on the depth chart.
It isnt until AJ or Walter are stuck on the sideline that we even pay attention to the position .....
When #80 and KW are able to take the field , there isnt much need behind them ..... when you consider the Texans offense is run first , pass when its favborable.
As for what Kubiak has been able to accomplish ... How many times have we seen AJ all alone .... without a defender within 10+ yards of him .... all this while defenses are designed to stop the guy (with and without a running game). You think thats all #80 or does it have something to do with Gary's play design and route combinations along with Schaub's play fakes which are some of the best in the game ....
Now that AJ has had multiple seasons where he hasnt been able to play 16 games , they have made allowances - spent resources to shore up the position.
But you are right , prior to this offseason , they have done little to nothing to shore up the position .... because there wasnt really a need and they havent spent the resources on the position until now.
When AJ and KW are on the field , there is no need for another WR .... save certain situations (which Jones was capable of handling on most occasions , stupid or not).
All this boils down to is resource allocation.
GP
Go Texans!
I really hate it when people rag on me for being too wordy...then I go and DON'T say everything...and so it gets used against me.
I am not naive to the point that I "allegedly" didn't understand the obvious about how we couldn't focus on every position when 99% of the roster was really junky when Kubiak came onto the scene. Come on, man, I'm not that dense. LOL. Kubiak had Andre Johnson and that was it.
I would've thought that I didn't have to be a Captain Obvious about this. Of the WRs that Kubiak picked up, I would have thought he'd be able to discern and utilize WRs better than he has. The things others have brought up about the WRs he had in Denver is really telling...outside of Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey there's not much there to be proud of regarding his latter years there.
Flash forward to present day, and we reallllllllly need Posey and Martin and jean and hell, even Dwight Jones to get some face time out there. Kuharsky even gets it: In his recent article about Dream/Nightmare scenarios for the Texans...his nightmare scenario has TJ Yates throwing to inexperienced and burdened rookie WRs named Posey, Martin, and Jones and it not working out very well. Kuharsky is echoing what I am trying to say: There is a QB-WR nightmare waiting to happen.
For me, I don't care how we got here with it. It's here. Yes, maybe we could have spent that Amobi Okoye pick on a WR. I don't' know who could have been there at that pick. But we made the right call at the time--Trying to shore up a bad defense. 6 one way, half dozen the other. My concern is Kubiak's guys he HAS picked up for WR. It took a few years to get the ZBS installed properly. It took a miracle of getting Arian Foster to make the ZBS into its best form possible here. We gotta' have some of that lightning in a bottle with the WR position now.
It will make or break this season. I'm saying it right now. It can.
Instead of putting words in my mouth, maybe ask me a question about what I meant. That's why I get wordy a lot, because there is no shortage of people badly botching the context of what is said on a message board. Case in point.
GP
Go Texans!
About the Jacoby stats: I know a lot more about his stats than you give me credit for.
I did the side-by-side graphic in the 2011 summer of David Anderson vs. Jacoby Jones.
Jacoby, if we went by stats, was the better guy by leaps and bounds. But listen up: Those stats also don't tell a story of Jacoby's various untimely drops, his tipped/botched catches that were caught by our opponents and used against us...the famous Ravens game which is like 35-3 version 2.0...etc. For every great catch he made for 16 yards...he'd have a DOH! moment on an easy catch for 10 yards. It's 6 one way, half a dozen the other with those kinds of guys.
Another example: He had a similar DOH! moment vs. Titans in 2010, at Tennessee, when a punt bounced and he muffed it and only a technicality in the rules reversed a Titans recovery of the punt. He's been a question mark in spite of ANY forward progress he ever made here (pun intended).
The stats you posted look almost OK, almost startling very good for him, but it's a bit laced with cyanide IMO when we examine it further in its total context.
I'd take Plax or Braylon Edwards this very moment if we're really serious about shoring up and allocating some resources. I know, I know...cap space and such. But still. This team is going to attempt to throw the ball to a suspect Andre Johnson (longevity/injury problems), a fading KW who took a pay cut and didn't protest at all, and several rookies. Things have to pan out, or else.
I did the side-by-side graphic in the 2011 summer of David Anderson vs. Jacoby Jones.
Jacoby, if we went by stats, was the better guy by leaps and bounds. But listen up: Those stats also don't tell a story of Jacoby's various untimely drops, his tipped/botched catches that were caught by our opponents and used against us...the famous Ravens game which is like 35-3 version 2.0...etc. For every great catch he made for 16 yards...he'd have a DOH! moment on an easy catch for 10 yards. It's 6 one way, half a dozen the other with those kinds of guys.
Another example: He had a similar DOH! moment vs. Titans in 2010, at Tennessee, when a punt bounced and he muffed it and only a technicality in the rules reversed a Titans recovery of the punt. He's been a question mark in spite of ANY forward progress he ever made here (pun intended).
The stats you posted look almost OK, almost startling very good for him, but it's a bit laced with cyanide IMO when we examine it further in its total context.
I'd take Plax or Braylon Edwards this very moment if we're really serious about shoring up and allocating some resources. I know, I know...cap space and such. But still. This team is going to attempt to throw the ball to a suspect Andre Johnson (longevity/injury problems), a fading KW who took a pay cut and didn't protest at all, and several rookies. Things have to pan out, or else.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
So did Keenan McCardell.
GP
Go Texans!
Oh I was right there with ya on that one, at the time.
I thought: Man, this guy is going to really cause problems for a secondary...no way can they cover AJ and Moulds.
Oops.
We need to find our WR version of Arian Foster. Badly.
GP
Go Texans!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just going to quote this to point out three points once again - (1) AJ is great, (2) Kubiak's play designs are masterful - imo far beyond the alleged occasional red flag or other couch coach criticisms and (3) Schaub's play fake is the bomb.
No doubt.
How else do you explain #80 with no one within 10+ yards of him on so many occasions when defenses are designed to stop the guy ?? Even when they had some chump named Ron Dayne toting the rock.
I think there is one QB in the NFL with a better play fake .... and that guy is a sure fire first ballot HOFer who wears #18.
Both of them have been known to fake out the TV crew ....
Between Gary's route combinations & play design , Schub's play fakes and #80 being great ..... thats a hard combination to stop.
In 2007.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40113&highlight=Keenan+McCardell
But he got hurt in camp didn't make the final 53; got cut after preseason.
TejasTom
All Pro
This amazes me too, and not just that it happens, but how often it happens.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Schaubs play fakes arent the only reason but they ARE a contributing factor.
For those who dont think that Schaubs play fakes arent that good .... you need to go back and watch some replays.
They were able to get the same type of results on play action when Ron Dayne was the primary back ....
Yep! The scheme and the quarterback are huge factors!
Never could! That goes without saying... just re-enforcing that Kubiak puts them in a position to succeed