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2023 TEXANS DRAFT DISCUSSION

Texansphan said:
Disagree. His 40 time is 4.82 seconds - this means he will have trouble getting around pass protectors.
Anderson's time is 4.6
Myles Murphy is 4.58 at the same size as Wilson.
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Bro, you know the #1 draft criteria is having an injury history. Trumps 40 times all day long.
 
Mollywhopper said:
tumblr_mpaqgy0fUv1sxk8zwo1_400.gif
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Britney needs to leave the booze and pills alone.
 
Porky said:
Sounds like Richardson’s agent blowing smoke for his client.

Maybe the rumors around CJ being passed up at both 1.1 and 1.2relate to this test, but the proof is in the pudding. It might be a single datapoint to consider but the film doesn’t lie.
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If it's true, the he could indeed be the surprise of the draft.
 
Lucky said:
For the most part, Stroud will have to do it the way Brady did it. The way Peyton did it. Read the defense pre snap. Go to the open man. Rinse & repeat. I'm not saying Stroud will become a HOFer. Just what his method for success will be. At some point, he will need to know as much as the OC knows about the offense. When Stroud can read a NFL defense and know what they're trying to do to him, he will become dominant. And all of the playmaker stuff won't matter.

Until then, he will have to setup residence in the film room.
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Well the question then becomes....does he have the work ethic for this?

Legitimate question I'm asking. I don't know much about these guys.
 
TheRealJoker said:
This guy ran a 4.91 40 and didn’t seem to have trouble getting around pass protectors:


*J.J. Watt - DE - Wisconsin - 2011 Draft Scout/NCAA College Football

*J.J. Watt - DE - Wisconsin - 2011 Draft Scout/NCAA College Football
draftscout.com
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He had a range of moves second to none and his first step was something else.
He also went through most of the time.
Wilson is a one trick pony relying on his strength and his bullrush. He will have to develop a substantial repertoire of moves before he becomes anywhere near as effective as the 4.91 guy.
 
Texansphan said:
He had a range of moves second to none and his first step was something else.
He also went through most of the time.
Wilson is a one trick pony relying on his strength and his bullrush. He will have to develop a substantial repertoire of moves before he becomes anywhere near as effective as the 4.91 guy.
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Not disagreeing at all. But this is a much better answer than tearing down a DL prospect due to a 40 time. Much more applicable. I just wanted you to strive to do better than an analysis based on underwear time ;)
 
TheRealJoker said:
Not disagreeing at all. But this is a much better answer than tearing down a DL prospect due to a 40 time. Much more applicable. I just wanted you to strive to do better than an analysis based on underwear time ;)
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Concur....I'll take fully uniformed football speed any day over underwear/t-shirt track day speed.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Concur....I'll take fully uniformed football speed any day over underwear/t-shirt track day speed.
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This is why I keep saying you have to respect the opinions of the national experts who rank these guys according to watching games and tape.
You also have to respect the syndicated websites like PFF, ESPN, CBS etc and when they collate all the information together and post a big board or individual ranking you have to respect that.
To say someone like Will Anderson is not a top 3 prospect in this draft is just plain silly - not saying you said this, just pointing out one on this board has.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Well the question then becomes....does he have the work ethic for this?
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Unknown. But if you look at what Stroud has achieved in 3 years at Ohio State, he must have put in the work. He's not doing it adlib style, ala Anthony Richardson. Stroud wins from the pocket. He has to know his offense, the defense he's playing, and how to attack it. He gets the play calls from the sideline. But once the ball is snapped, all of the decisions are on Stroud.

We've seen all of the crying about Bryce Young's size. "Oh, he's tiny. What if a big NFL player falls on him?" Young has a gift of avoiding the rush. Stroud is not a statue, but he's not Bryce Young, either. He will take hits in the pocket. As he matures, he'll get the ball out quicker and take fewer hits. But Stroud will have to pay his dues. No one knows who has an appetite for that.
 
You cannot predict a player busting out like Justin James Watt. It will happen on occasion. You just can't count on it. That's why I prefer players that produce (and still have a NFL athletic profile) to those that don't produce as much (and have an off the charts profile). If you haven't done it on the college field, you're going against the odds to think you can make it happen in the NFL.
 
Lucky said:
You cannot predict a player busting out like Justin James Watt. It will happen on occasion. You just can't count on it. That's why I prefer players that produce (and still have a NFL athletic profile) to those that don't produce as much (and have an off the charts profile). If you haven't done it on the college field, you're going against the odds to think you can make it happen in the NFL.
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Agree.
We have seen plenty of gifted athletes come into the league and be Jags - they just lack the skills.
Some of them learn them over a few seasons and can turn into solid starters but the ones who produced in college have the better chance at instant success.
 
All I know is you can’t hit a home run with your bat on your shoulder. Given the importance of QB, when you see a fastball coming straight down the pipe, you take your best hack and hope you connect. If you strikeout, you go back to the dugout and try again another day.

to put it a different way, looking at it from a risk/reward prospective, it’s much riskier for the Texans to pass on Stroud if he is the guy at 2 and watch him succeed elsewhere, then it is to select him and he fails. Nick is a huge analytics guy and I’m surehe understands the risk/reward ratio here. Even if this S2 wasn’t particularly good (which may help explain why he doesn’t play so well off-schedule) go back to his game play. No, he doesn’t process like Young, no he isn’t going to be nearly the creator that Young is, but he seems to go through reads reasonably well, get it to the right guy on time,and with excellent accuracy. At it basics, that is the definition of a QB. If they protect him reasonably well, and put some weapons around him, I think given development time…he can be a borderline top 10 guy, maybe even inside the top 10. You can’t pass on that guy when you have your chance given you were 32nd best at the position last year.
 
Lucky said:
Unknown. But if you look at what Stroud has achieved in 3 years at Ohio State, he must have put in the work. He's not doing it adlib style, ala Anthony Richardson. Stroud wins from the pocket. He has to know his offense, the defense he's playing, and how to attack it. He gets the play calls from the sideline. But once the ball is snapped, all of the decisions are on Stroud.

We've seen all of the crying about Bryce Young's size. "Oh, he's tiny. What if a big NFL player falls on him?" Young has a gift of avoiding the rush. Stroud is not a statue, but he's not Bryce Young, either. He will take hits in the pocket. As he matures, he'll get the ball out quicker and take fewer hits. But Stroud will have to pay his dues. No one knows who has an appetite for that.
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Porky said:
All I know is you can’t hit a home run with your bat on your shoulder. Given the importance of QB, when you see a fastball coming straight down the pipe, you take your best hack and hope you connect. If you strikeout, you go back to the dugout and try again another day.

to put it a different way, looking at it from a risk/reward prospective, it’s much riskier for the Texans to pass on Stroud if he is the guy at 2 and watch him succeed elsewhere, then it is to select him and he fails. Nick is a huge analytics guy and I’m surehe understands the risk/reward ratio here. Even if this S2 wasn’t particularly good (which may help explain why he doesn’t play so well off-schedule) go back to his game play. No, he doesn’t process like Young, no he isn’t going to be nearly the creator that Young is, but he seems to go through reads reasonably well, get it to the right guy on time,and with excellent accuracy. At it basics, that is the definition of a QB. If they protect him reasonably well, and put some weapons around him, I think given development time…he can be a borderline top 10 guy, maybe even inside the top 10. You can’t pass on that guy when you have your chance given you were 32nd best at the position last year.
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Then Stetson Bennett IV is your guy. He has produced at higher level than any QB in this draft, and at the Combine threw the ball better than most and showed his arm is as strong or stronger than most. And no one worked as hard to get to where they got.
 
Porky said:
it’s much riskier for the Texans to pass on Stroud if he is the guy at 2 and watch him succeed elsewhere, then it is to select him and he fails.
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Right. It's not as if Stroud doesn't have elite traits. His accuracy is NFL top shelf, right now. As is his touch. Any team should be jumping at the chance to work with him. Stroud has the misfortune of coming out in a draft where there is a generational prodigy who sees the game like Neo sees the Matrix, and two physical thoroughbreds that the NFL always drools over.

Had Stroud been eligible for last year's draft, there would have been a stampede of teams trying to trade up for him. We always have to find the warts. Oh, this guy runs too much. This guy doesn't run enough. This guy is too small. This guy is too tall. It never, ever ends.

Look for guys that have proven they can get it done on the field. Pull the trigger when you find them. KISS.
 
Texian said:
Then Stetson Bennett IV is your guy. He has produced at higher level than any QB in this draft, and at the Combine threw the ball better than most and showed his arm is as strong or stronger than most. And no one worked as hard to get to where they got.
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Real issues for Bennett, 3 is my biggest concern

1- even smaller than Young
2- slightly older than Hooker
3-getting arrested for public intox during the part of the off-season when Bennett should been getting ready for the draft.

Still I have seen him as high as #6 on draft boards, good chance somebody will draft him
 
Number19 said:
Texans have the second pick on day two. Remember there are only 31 picks in round one, the Dolphins forfeiting their round one. Pittsburg has the first pick on day two, pick #32.
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They have plenty of other needs so I imagine QB is low on their list - especially after using a 1st on one last year.
I guess they could trade out of #32 - that would be Texans luck for someone to jump us and take our guy.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
Real issues for Bennett, 3 is my biggest concern

1- even smaller than Young
2- slightly older than Hooker
3-getting arrested for public intox during the part of the off-season when Bennett should been getting ready for the draft.

Still I have seen him as high as #6 on draft boards, good chance somebody will draft him
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Max Duggan has as much potential as Bennett and is bigger. Trouble with Duggan is he relies on his legs too much.
 
Houston Texans
Top picks: Nos. 2, 12, 33
Are you buying or selling the possibility of the Texans not taking a quarterback at No. 2?
I'm selling the possibility of the Texans not taking a quarterback. What's the alternative? Run it back with Davis Mills, who was tied for the most interceptions in 2022 (15)? Or go with 35-year-old Case Keenum, who has started two games since 2019? The Texans brass is smart enough to understand they must hit on a young quarterback to continue the rebuild effectively. -- DJ Bien-Aime

What we're hearing about the Texans' draft: DJ and I are going to disagree here, because there is a belief around the league that Houston has eyes for Bryce Young (Alabama) but isn't sold on the other potential Round 1 quarterbacks. Ownership could get involved and change this, if Cal McNair wants a young quarterback to lead this offense. If that's the case, C.J. Stroud (Ohio State) would certainly be a fit from a value and need standpoint. But I know the Texans love edge rusher Will Anderson Jr. (Alabama), the team's top-ranked prospect overall, and he could land with the Texans. Stay tuned. -- Miller

Carolina Panthers:

What we're hearing about the Panthers' draft: To David's point, every source polled this week believes Young has pulled back in front of Stroud. A source in Carolina said Tuesday evening the interest internally has centered around Young and Stroud, and both passers have serious support inside the building. And to reiterate, Anthony Richardson (Florida) and Will Levis (Kentucky) aren't considered serious considerations. -- Miller
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www.espn.com

What we know -- and what we're hearing -- on all 32 NFL teams' draft plans: Questions, buzz, intel

Our NFL reporters answer questions about their teams two weeks out from the draft, and our analysts weigh in with intel to know.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
2. This probably ties in to our first question: When all is said and done, in what order will the top four QBs (Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson) be selected? (Bonus points if you add which teams will take them.)
Dochterman: The Panthers struck gold the last time they drafted the No. 1 overall pick from the state of Alabama (Cam Newton out of Auburn in 2011), so I think they snag Young with Stroud immediately following to Houston. I’ll project Tennessee to jump ahead of rival Indianapolis and trade up for Richardson to learn behind Ryan Tannehill. Finally, I’ll pick the Colts to go with Levis at No. 4. Young, Stroud and Levis are first-day starters, while the Titans’ staff designs some scary packages for Richardson alongside Derrick Henry.

So, yeah, I’m thinking four quarterbacks in four picks. Meanwhile, Seattle and Detroit will unveil an app that night to start taking playoff ticket applications.

Baumgardner: I’m sticking with Stroud as the best combination of game ready/high ceiling among the QBs in this draft. So, Stroud to Carolina and Frank Reich, then Houston gets its new regime off on the right foot with Young at No. 2.

I’m not sold that Arizona will be overwhelmed with elite offers for No. 3, as I still don’t know how many teams are willing to give up what it’ll take to go get Richardson — outside of, say, Seattle (which might not want to) or Detroit (which doesn’t really need to). If Arizona takes Anderson and the Colts or a team trading up goes Richardson, then we could be waiting a minute, potentially, to hear Levis’ name.

It only takes one team to fall in love with him. Unless more than a few other teams are also in love with him, though, you might be able to get him in the teens. I think we’ll see three in the top 10. I’m not sold on four.

Burke: The 2021 draft marked just the third time quarterbacks went 1-2-3 overall (Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance). There have been four quarterbacks selected within the top 10 twice since 1948. Are we to believe that this particular QB class — one we’ve harped on for months as being somewhat uncertain — is suddenly going to be historic? I mean … maybe, but that outcome would require a team trading up to No. 3 and the Colts being satisfied taking QB4.

I’ll follow Nick by sending Stroud to Carolina and Young to Houston. And I’ll even go so far as three-for-three with Las Vegas jumping Indianapolis for Richardson. But I hate that for the Colts and have Levis sliding as a result, until a team like Washington or Tampa Bay takes advantage by moving into the 12-13 range.

4. We’re two weeks out from the start of this year’s event. Give us a couple of players we’re not talking about enough as potential Round 1 picks and one or two who’ve been overhyped to this point.
Baumgardner: Folks have slept on a few of these tackles, which is not shocking or even remotely new. It’s a weird tackle class, but it’s not a bad one — similar to what we’ve often said here about the quarterbacks. There are some really nice OTs at the top, if not any generational guys. Several prospects should earn first-round grades, including Tennessee’s Darnell Wright and Oklahoma’s Anton Harrison. I also would add TCU guard/center Steve Avila to that mix, as it wouldn’t shock me to see a team fall crazy in love with him.

Boston College WR Zay Flowers is another guy who a team could wind up over-the-moon on, and the same thing goes for Tennessee’s Jalin Hyatt. This is not an elite wide receiver class and opinions are rather varied at the top. It wouldn’t surprise me to see the receivers wait a minute to hear their names called or for the order they’re called to surprise a few people.

I’m not there on Hendon Hooker as a first-rounder in this class. I’ve long thought he’s no worse than a Round 3 prospect, most likely Round 2. He’s almost certainly going to be the fifth QB off the board.

Dochterman: Michigan defensive tackle Mazi Smith has freakish physical skills for a player who weighs 323 pounds. While he had just half a sack last year, he added 25 pressures. Converting more of those chances is all about technique and finishing, something a good D-line coach can bring out of him. Smith can control the line of scrimmage when he’s two-gapping and has the quickness to penetrate with relative ease. He should be a target for Seattle or Detroit, should neither team select Jalen Carter.

Iowa linebacker Jack Campbell has a second-round grade and might have some slight athletic limitations, but he will anchor a defense for 10 years. When you grade intangibles such as toughness, leadership and accountability, nobody’s better. In the long run, passing on a player like that at, say, No. 27 because he’s 31st on your board will cost you playoff seasons in adverse situations. Don’t believe me? How did Iowa win eight games last season with the Big Ten’s worst statistical offense this century?
Richardson and Levis are this year’s versions of draft catnip. No matter how many times teams watch prospects like Richardson or Jake Locker or Carson Wentz, they close their eyes and imagine Patrick Mahomes or Steve Young or Ben Roethlisberger. When they evaluate Zach Wilson, Blaine Gabbert or Levis, they squint hard enough to envision Andrew Luck or Matthew Stafford or Josh Allen. Since 1990, there have seemed to be more first-round quarterbacks who’ve fail than have become high-level starters, and the odds are strong that at least two of the top four quarterbacks this won’t pan out. The only question is: Which two?

Burke: Rather than double up on Avila, I’ll mention Minnesota center John Michael Schmitz. We’ve seen teams place an increasing focus on advanced, plug-and-play centers — Tyler Linderbaum, Garrett Bradbury, Frank Ragnow, etc. — and Schmitz is the type of presence who could give a bump to a playoff team.

Jahmyr Gibbs (and maybe Devon Achane) is another prospect whose Round 1 chatter has been way too quiet. Given how offenses are spreading the field and getting their pass-catching backs into space, Gibbs’ game should be an outstanding fit for the NFL.
Flip side, I’m not banking on the tight end run happening quite as early as others. Would I consider Michael Mayer, Darnell Washington, Luke Musgrave or Dalton Kincaid with a pick in the mid- to late-first round? Absolutely. I’ve been telling our Lions beat writers for weeks that Detroit should think about Mayer at 18. That’s still not a premium position in the NFL, though, so I’d be very surprised if three or four tight ends fly off the board over the receiver, edge and DB talent that should be there in the teens and 20s.
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theathletic.com

2023 NFL Draft roundtable: How many top-10 trades? Where do the QBs land?

Could quarterbacks land as the first four picks? How should the Jets and Packers navigate the draft if an Aaron Rodgers trade happens?
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 
Hervoyel said:
Think Lovie is going to be watching the draft with a big grin on his face? $23 million dollars paid to let that jackass screw the team he spent an entire season failing. Only in Houston down on Kirby does that kind of thing seem to happen.
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And I've heard from numerous sources (public ones, nothing secret) that the "team" from Cal down to the janitor have zero regrets about the way they played that game, the personell used, etc., and that was not the reason Lovie was fired. Assuming that is the case, it's one freaking brain-dead org...although we pretty much already knew that. I'm just hoping Ryans can turn this BS train around.
 
Porky said:
And I've heard from numerous sources (public ones, nothing secret) that the "team" from Cal down to the janitor have zero regrets about the way they played that game, the personell used, etc., and that was not the reason Lovie was fired. Assuming that is the case, it's one freaking brain-dead org...although we pretty much already knew that. I'm just hoping Ryans can turn this BS train around.
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If this organization can't overcome having the 2nd pick versus number 1 in a draft where there is NOT a clear, everyone one the planet agrees generational talent, then the Texans will continue with more years of terrible.

And if nothing else, the Texans having the number two has been far more entertaining, for me at least.
 
zshawn10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1646345789256466433
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I just threw up in my mouth a little. Levis is a bust in the making. Jake Locker and Zach Wilson's love child coming to Kirby.

If the Texans take Levis, I hope like hell I am wrong, but I see an arrogant asshole turnover machine ala Zach Wilson. Don't fall in love with the arm man. It takes more than a zippy arm. Think big brain, less about arm talent. Montana, Brady, and many others will light the path on this.
 
Texansphan said:
They have plenty of other needs so I imagine QB is low on their list - especially after using a 1st on one last year.
I guess they could trade out of #32 - that would be Texans luck for someone to jump us and take our guy.
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Ideally, I'd like the Texans to trade down with our #33 pick. We could trade down to #40 and pick up a 4th, or trade down to #50 and pick up 3rd.

With the second round, I'm wanting the Texans to fill their high priority need at Center. If they like Schmitz, they'll have to use #33, but Wypler will likely fall to the bottom half of the round. He might be there at #65 but I wouldn't want to chance it.

But I have a group of LBs likely available in the 3rd/4th that I just can't work into my needs based draft. I need another 4th or 3rd, if a trade is there for our #33.
 
I'm sure they are high on Will Anderson. I'm pretty sure the floor on him is solid DE, and while I'm not as high on him as some in terms of a pure pass rusher, he's not going to bust. No way in hell. He's got good effort, excellent athlete, no major injury background that I am aware of. Plays the run very well. Arguably the cleanest non-QB prospect in this draft. He should be somewhere between good and great longer term. I just have him more in the good to very good range rather than the "generational" label. BTW the same label was applied to Clowney, and I thought the same about him in terms of impact that I do Anderson years later - might be a little higher on Anderson.

I don't think it likely...but could they go Anderson at #2 and then look at Hooker at 33 or maybe trade back up into the back of the first rd for him? He is my 3rd favorite QB. I don't care for anyone else that is likely to be "the guy" long-term. Richardson and Levis are half-court shots. Stroud is a free throw. Young is an uncontested 3 pointer. Hooker is a pull up jumper from the key.
 
Porky said:
And I've heard from numerous sources (public ones, nothing secret) that the "team" from Cal down to the janitor have zero regrets about the way they played that game, the personell used, etc., and that was not the reason Lovie was fired. Assuming that is the case, it's one freaking brain-dead org...although we pretty much already knew that. I'm just hoping Ryans can turn this BS train around.
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Cal was moping around the sideline like his dog just died after the Colts game. Zero regrets, my arse.
 
Porky said:
I just threw up in my mouth a little. Levis is a bust in the making. Jake Locker and Zach Wilson's love child coming to Kirby.

If the Texans take Levis, I hope like hell I am wrong, but I see an arrogant asshole turnover machine ala Zach Wilson. Don't fall in love with the arm man. It takes more than a zippy arm. Think big brain, less about arm talent. Montana, Brady, and many others will light the path on this.
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I see what might make you say that but I don't know if it's necessarily true or not. I'd be tickled to death if the Texans came out of the first round with Levis and Bijan Robinson. That to me then becomes really interesting when you can run Pierce and Robinson alternately and bring Metchie on board plus whatever you get out of the rest of the draft. Schultz at TE.... Defense has needs absolutely but the best defense is keeping the other sides offense on the sideline. The Texans consistently during OB's tenure and continuing on through Lovie just left that defense out there to hang. Control the clock and score some damn points for a change.
 
Porky said:
I don't think it likely...but could they go Anderson at #2 and then look at Hooker at 33 or maybe trade back up into the back of the first rd for him? He is my 3rd favorite QB. I don't care for anyone else that is likely to be "the guy" long-term. Richardson and Levis are half-court shots. Stroud is a free throw. Young is an uncontested 3 pointer. Hooker is a pull up jumper from the key.
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If I was a betting man, which I am not, what you say here is exactly what I would put my money on. Anderson at #2. Probably a WR at #12. Trade up to bottom 1st for our QB of the future (to be named).
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
Real issues for Bennett, 3 is my biggest concern

1- even smaller than Young
2- slightly older than Hooker
3-getting arrested for public intox during the part of the off-season when Bennett should been getting ready for the draft.

Still I have seen him as high as #6 on draft boards, good chance somebody will draft him
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Stetson Bennett
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span40-yard dash10-yard split20-yard shuttleVertical jumpBroad jump
5 ft 11 in
(1.80 m)		192 lb
(87 kg)		28+7⁄8 in
(0.73 m)		10 in
(0.25 m)		4.67 s1.59 s4.2 s33.5 in
(0.85 m)		9 ft 10 in
(3.00 m)
All values from NFL Combine
vs
Bryce Young
Pre-draft measurables
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span
5 ft 10+1⁄8 in
(1.78 m)		204 lb
(93 kg)		30+1⁄2 in
(0.77 m)		9+3⁄4 in
(0.25 m)
All values from NFL Combine[37][38]
 
Al good points Herv but I just see lots of red flags with Levis. I could 100% be wrong. If they don’t go Stroud, give me Hooker. Much more of a precision passer. I don’t like guys who aren’t accurate, even more so in a WCO…but your overall point is a good one. This offense needs a major talent infusion and if they focus on O this year, I won’t complain. Hit the D hard next year as the new QB starts to mature.
 
Texian said:
Stetson Bennett
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span40-yard dash10-yard split20-yard shuttleVertical jumpBroad jump
5 ft 11 in
(1.80 m)		192 lb
(87 kg)		28+7⁄8 in
(0.73 m)		10 in
(0.25 m)		4.67 s1.59 s4.2 s33.5 in
(0.85 m)		9 ft 10 in
(3.00 m)
All values from NFL Combine
vs

Bryce Young
Pre-draft measurables
HeightWeightArm lengthHand span
5 ft 10+1⁄8 in
(1.78 m)		204 lb
(93 kg)		30+1⁄2 in
(0.77 m)		9+3⁄4 in
(0.25 m)
All values from NFL Combine[37][38]
Click to expand...

Yes, Bennett is smaller...i.e. lighter in the ass at not even a full inch taller
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
Yes, Bennett is smaller...i.e. lighter in the ass at not even a full inch taller
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I think Young loaded up on the carbs to weigh in at 200+ for the Combine but in reality, actually played at 10 lbs. less than Bennett. The BIG brouhaha about size registered solely on how tall Young was, and Bennett has got him by almost an inch. As far as age goes, if he plays thru 2 contracts or 10+ years then age is really a non-factor.
 
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